straightUp Loc: California

I mean, why not, right?

Sure, we can drop the money off with the billionaires and see if the people at the bottom of the food-chain get enough "trickle-down" to feed their kids but... Why not just make feeding the children a priority?

From the IRS Newsroom...

The American Rescue Plan increased the maximum Child Tax Credit in 2021 to $3,600 for children under the age of 6 and to $3,000 per child for children between ages 6 and 17. The American Rescue Plan is projected to lift more than five million children out of poverty this year, cutting child poverty by more than half.

official press release

This goes into effect today. It's so good to see stuff like this happening again.

Weewillynobeerspilly Loc: North central Texas

They absolutely should be a priority. ........and the responsibility of the pecker pusher and receiver, not the tax payer. Throwing more money at bad with your outlook about billionaires is a tit for tat........ great fix, a job well done.

Per you we need feed the kids ( mostly overweight ) cant feed the fattys we have now .... why are you allowing your party to let in 500,000 more? And their dependant parents...... awsome plan, double down on failure.

Have a good day SU....... this place sux, im gonna watch concrete heat up ......... far more exiting and not near as predictable

Be good and have fun.

Tiptop789 Loc: State of Denial

Not as predictable? Sun shines, it's gets hot enough to bake on, what not predictable?

Weewillynobeerspilly Loc: North central Texas

Tip........ that should not need splainin', you get it.

Could be the 96 to 98% pure meth im filling my glass with, occasion foil like the 80s....... time for a few hits and a naked jog around the park.

That will be the DFW area news if you will be interested on how the run went.

Viva La Poland!!!!!

Tiptop789 Loc: State of Denial

Take care & watch out for that hot assfault

straightUp Loc: California

Oh, but it's the responsibility of the tax payer to make sure corporations can balance their books? Don't act like Republicans don't burden the tax payers with anything... The 2017 tax cut was a big give away to corporations that cry when they have to pay tax bills and the result was a massive increase in our national debt which tax payers get to pay for generations to come.

Hypocrisy aside, I also find a huge problem with your self-centered perspective. Complaining about paying taxes to feed starving children and blaming the "pecker pushers and receivers" for the problem. A smarter, less self-absorbed person would have a different perspective that goes something like this...

For wh**ever reason, there are poor people in America that don't have enough money to feed their children. We can blame them all we want, make judgement about them, wh**ever... but none of that helps the children.


It's better than the alternative you apparently prefer... Just let the children starve and blame their parents.


I never said anything about the typical, overweight American kid in the middle-class... I'm talking about the kids living in poverty who are starving.


Do you ever think about the things you say before you say them? How do you think fatties get fat if we can't feed them?


Because we need smarter people to do the work that lesser qualified Americans can't do while they sit around griping about taxes and collecting disability checks and/or SS. (I just nailed most of the conservatives on OPP, didn't I?)

The fact is... most immigrants coming to this country today are better educated than most Americans. They come here on airplanes and fly right over the wall (Trump's jaw drops... "they can FLY?")

They have taken over our high tech industry, about 78% of which is made up of immigrants from Asia. They are also taking over our healthcare and well pretty much anything requiring STEM sk**ls that American kids typically fail to acquire because they are too busy trying to find the easiest path to money. These immigrants are taking jobs that pay more than you probably ever made in your life, so feeding their kids is typically not a problem.

The tax credit will be going mostly to native-born American families repressed by a system that favors money, white privilege and better qualified immigrants.


If you say so.


Thanks, I often do.

straightUp Loc: California

LOL - I thought I add to my collection of posts about real issues that fall outside the limelight of the right-wing outrage industry to prove a point. The conservatives on this site have no interest in anything that falls outside the limelight of the right-wing outrage industry. LOL

That's a clear indication that conservatives on this site have no thoughts of their own.

"Taxes? Children? Well, that seems important but it's not what Hannity is b***hing about so I have no opinion."

I will continue to do this from time to time, just to keep proving my point.

American Vet

"It's better than the alternative you apparently prefer... Just let the children starve and blame their parents."

Maybe 2 or 3 probably, not more than 100. Not enough for the CDC to keep accurate records. All such starvation is the result of severe habitual neglect and usually very young children or children that are restrained in some way.

One is too many. There are not a lot compared to other countries but is does occur.
It should be noted that in the United States, children do not starve because of poverty. There are more than enough food resources for children and much food in those programs goes to waste each year.
Children in the United States starve due to parental choices, often fueled by mental illness and drug addiction. Given the choice between feeding their children with a free box of food and trading the food for crack, a crack addict will trade for crack almost every time.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-children-die-of-starvation-in-the-USA-each-year?share=1

straightUp Loc: California

Not enough to keep accurate records? That doesn't make any sense. The only thing you need quantity for are aggregates which are not accurate.


That's such BS... and it's a thoughtless thing to say. Yes, there are some neglectful parents but there are also mother's all over this country working their asses off to make ends meet. I think that you, on some subconscious level, just don't want to help them and to avoid the guilt you to pretend they don't deserve it.


I agree.


Poverty rate for the US is 10%, which is roughly 33 million people, which is more than the entire population of most third world countries. But, look... we're not talking about other countries.... I know you feel compelled to "defend the honor of your country" but can you trying focusing on the issue?


The food doesn't go to waste for a lack of demand, it goes to waste because it's perishable and poorly managed. And despite the abundance of government-subsidized food produced in this country, there actually isn't enough getting to children in need. It's not about just producing food, you actually have to distribute the food to children who need it.

If you're going to go down the whole charity thing, I'll save you the whole argument... I hear this from conservatives ALL the time and they NEVER actually know. Charities tend focus only on the supply-side of the equation (the number of people they have the provisions to feed). They don't actually look at the total number of hungry children on the demand-side of the equation because they have no obligation to do so. So let's say we have 100 starving children and a church that feeds 20 of them... The church will get kudos for feeding 20 children and that will be the fairytale-end of the story.

A more effective system is to use the government to assess the demand, then calculate the net burden (which is unfortunately much bigger than the net of generosity) This necessitates the FORCED "charity" of a tax policy.


Yes, that happens but it's the exception not the rule. There are many more families in America that have just hit hard times.


Seriously? You just copied your argument from Quora? You DO realize that nothing on Quora is verified, right? It's just wh**ever opinions anyone might have.

Eh, it doesn't matter... I got the jest of your perspective.

American Vet

>>>>Maybe 2 or 3 probably, not more than 100. Not enough for the CDC to keep accurate records.
****Not enough to keep accurate records? That doesn't make any sense. The only thing you need quantity for are aggregates which are not accurate.
Then post your data

>>>>All such starvation is the result of severe habitual neglect and usually very young children or children that are restrained in some way.
****That's such BS... and it's a thoughtless thing to say.
Then post your data refuting it

>>>>There are not a lot compared to other countries but is does occur.
****Poverty rate for the US is 10%, which is roughly 33 million people, which is more than the entire population of ****most third world countries. But, look... we're not talking about other countries.... I know you feel compelled to ****"defend the honor of your country" but can you trying focusing on the issue?
Glad to focus on the issue - Feel free to post your data that refutes what I posted. And, I might add, I have seen poverty in other countries and 'poverty' in America - no comparison.

>>>>Children in the United States starve due to parental choices, often fueled by mental illness and drug >>>>addiction. Given the choice between feeding their children with a free box of food and trading the food for >>>>crack, a crack addict will trade for crack almost every time.
****Yes, that happens but it's the exception not the rule. There are many more families in America that have just hit hard times.
Your opinion, not backed by any data.

Bottom line - you have an opinion.

straightUp Loc: California

My data? YOU'RE the one making the statement. I was just pointing out the irony of the statement itself... "Not enough for the CDC to keep accurate records"... you still aren't getting it, are you? Sorry, I worked for 15 yeas in business intelligence so it's probably just easier for me to recognize slip ups like that. Accuracy doesn't depend on large numbers. There's no reason why you can't have accuracy even with just one record.


Again, YOU are the one making the claim that all such starvation is the result of severe habitual neglect, so the burden of proof is on YOU. I'm not the one making that claim.

That's like telling someone that the moon is made of cheese and when that person says it isn't, demanding that he prove it isn't, with data. LOL Seriously, it doesn't work that way. If YOU are the one insisting the moon is made of cheese, then YOU are the one who needs to prove it. See how that works?


OK...

US population in 2019 according to U.S. Census = 328.2 million.
Poverty rate (official 2019 U.S. Census) = 10.5%
10.5% of 329.2 million is 34 million Americans living below the poverty line.

TOTAL population of Uzbekistan = 33 million, Mozambique = 31.2 million, Ghana = 31 million, Venezuela = 28.4 million, North Korea = 25.7 million, Niger = 24.2 million, Syria = 17.5 million, Somalia = 15.8 million, Rwanda = 12.9 million, Haiti = 11.4 million, Cuba = 11.3 million, South Sudan = 11.1 million, Honduras = 9.9 million, Laos = 7.2 million, Libya = 6.8 million, El Salvador = 6.4 million... These are just some examples pulled from a list of countries ranked by population according to the UN.

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/population-by-country/

If you can do the simple math you will find that indeed, the 34 million Americans living BELOW the poverty line is more than the TOTAL population of most third world countries. I think that's quite sufficient data to invalidate your "feel good about America" claim that there is not a lot of poverty here compared to other countries.


If you've seen any poverty anywhere, it's only a small sample. Unless you've made a point to directly witness 34 million Americans. Small samples don't paint the whole picture. A lot of poor people in America still die from malnourishment, lack of medical care and exposure to the elements, whether you "see" them or not.

Not enough? OK, according the the World Health Organization, the death rate from malnutrition per 100,000 people in the United States is almost .9% Even China does better at .8% and France, which is admitting far more refugees per citizen than we are, is the ONLY EU member with a worse record than the U.S. Every other developed nation in Europe and or the G8 are doing better than us.

https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/

Sorry to keep throwing this in your face, but there are people trying to make America a better place and it's hard for them to get much traction when people like you have your heads in the sand pretending that there's nothing wrong. For a country with such abundant resources, a super-wealthy class and global influence, the U.S. is outright s**tty at taking care of it's people.


Look who's talking... You haven't backed ANY of your absurd opinions with ANY data. Where's your data that proves your opinion that every parent of a starving child in America is a crackhead?


That's all ANY of us have, Scooter... At least my opinions are well-informed. I don't make broad assumptions about every parent of a starving child being on illegal drugs that the government can't even track.

American Vet

I concede that I cannot find the number of children who die from starvation in America. If you can find that, I would appreciate the link.

I can base my comments only on anecdotal evidence that I have seen. In a 20+ year career where I was involved in the periphery of child starvation deaths (about 5-6 IIRC), all were either drug related or psychiatric related. Never once was it a case where the parent said " I ran out of food and watched my child starve to death".

straightUp Loc: California

This link here, which I posted in my last response is the rate of deaths per 100,000 people in every country related to malnutrition. https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/malnutrition/by-country/. The data is compiled by the World Health Organization.

If you're looking specifically for "cause of death = starvation" you might not find it because starvation is not in itself a medical condition. Starvation simply refers to a denial of something (usually food) that causes suffering and sometimes death. People starve themselves all the time while fasting or wh**ever, but they usually start eating before the starvation leads to malnourishment.

And when people ARE malnourished, over time their natural defense systems start to fail which exposes them to all manner of disease and complications which are usually what get's recorded by the CDC as a cause of death.

The reason why you see starving children in Africa with distended stomachs is because there is a particular form of malnourishment where the child is getting no protein at all. It's called kwashiorkor.

Sadly, these are the poster children for the causes because their distention makes their plight more obvious. Nevertheless, they exhibit only one of several effects common with malnourishment. To you're earlier point, my current understanding is that most such cases found in the U.S. are indeed the result of parental abuse. For the most part, our "milk programs" have insured that every child going to public school at least gets milk.

But the child can still be malnourished and that can still lead to degenerative issues.

I see a lot of folks pointing to "supposedly" impoverished children and noting their obesity. That too is a less-than-obvious issue where impoverished children are being fed with cheap carbs to ease the pain of hunger. This doesn't happen in the third world so much because they don't have the abundance of cheap junk food that we do. Nevertheless, those children dining on Doritos and Coke still wind up malnourished which leads to the diseases and complications that eventually get recorded as a cause of death.


I'm have no reason to doubt your anecdotal evidence. I'm sure parents HAVE said that... but I'm also sure its possible that you may not have witnessed any of those occasions despite your 20+ years of experience.

As for the absence of "starvation" in the records, I already covered that, when I explained that "starvation" is not a medical condition, at least according to the CDC. Even the kids in African with kwashiorkor, mostly die of diarrhea, which caused by starvation. I mean, we could take it a step further and say, the cause of death is dehydration, caused by diarrhea, caused by starvation, so yes, it's arbitrary but "starvation" is too far upstream for the CDC records, so it will affect your search.

As for your 20+ years of experience... I don't know what "5-6 IIRC" means. When you say you were in the "periphery of child starvation deaths" what did you mean? I'm only asking because I'm interesting in knowing more about poverty and starvation and if you were involved in some way, maybe you can teach me a thing or too.

American Vet

The link does not state how many children in the United States died of starvation.

straightUp Loc: California

The report tells you that almost one in 100,000 Americans die of starvation. So are you saying that starvation in the US really isn't really a problem because the report didn't specify how many of them are children?