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Harmony of the Gospels?
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Jul 7, 2021 14:02:34   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Let's look at the resurrection accounts to see if there's a harmony of words.

Here are a few different versions of what Christianity believes is God breathed...

#1..Did Jesus drink what was offered to him?

Matt 27:34 says yes...(wine and gall)
Mark 15:23 says that Jesus didn't drink it.
Luke 23:36 says he was offered vinegar, but doesn't say if he drank it.
John 19:29-30 says yes, he did drink the vinegar.

#2. Did the two thieves believe in Jesus?

Matt. 27:44 says neither believed in Jesus.
Mark 15:32 says neither.
Luke 23:39-41 says one thief did the other didn't.
John doesn't mention it.

#3. What were Jesus last dying words on the cross?

Matt 27:46 says..Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani (My God, my God, why did You forsake me?)
Mark 15:34 says the same as Matt.
Luke 23:46 says.."Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.
John 19:30 says.."it is finished"

#4. When did Mary prepare the spices?

It's not mentioned in Matt.
Mark 16:1 says..Mary prepared spices Saturday night.
Luke 23:56 says..Mary prepared spices on Friday.
John 19:39 says..Nicodemus prepared spices on Friday.

#5. Had the sun risen when the women arrived at the tomb?

Matt 28:1 says..It was toward dawn of the first day of the week.
Mark 16:2 says..they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
Luke 24:1 says..At early dawn they went to the tomb.
John 20:1 says..Mary came to the tomb, while it was still dark.

#6. How many days was Jesus in the tomb?

Matt 28:1 says..3 days and two nights.
Mark 16:2 says 3 days and two nights.
Luke 24:1 says 3 days and two nights.
John 20:1 says..2 days and two nights.

#7. How many people came to the tomb and who were they?

Matt 28:1 says..Two, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary.
Mark 16:1 says..Three, two Mary's and Salome.
Luke 24:10 says..Four+, two Mary's, Joanna and other women.
John 20:1 says..One, Mary Magdalene came alone.

#7. Was the stone removed when the women arrived at the tomb?

Matt 29:1-2 says..No, An angel rolled the stone away after the women arrived.
Mark 16:4 says..Yes, The stone had already been rolled away when they arrived.
Luke 24:2 says..Yes..the stone had already been rolled away when they arrived.
John 20:1 says..Yes..the stone had been rolled away when Mary arrived.

#8. How many angels were at the tomb?

Matt 28:2 says..One angel sitting on the stone which he rolled away from the tomb.
Mark 16:5 says..One young man sitting on the right side , inside the tomb.
Luke 24:4 says..Two men standing by them inside the tomb.
John 20:1-12 says.. No angels at first, the second time Mary arrived at the tomb, two angels are sitting inside.

#9. What are the angels instructions at the tomb?

Matt 28:6-7 says..Go to Galilee to meet Jesus..he is not here, he has risen...tell his disciples he is going before you to Galilee.
Mark 16:6-7 says..Go to Galilee to meet Jesus..do not be amazed..he has risen..tell his disciples and Peter he is going before you to Galilee.
Luke 25:5-7;..49 The women were specifically instructed not to go to Galilee, but to stay in Jerusalem. In Acts 1:4 He commanded them that should should not leave Jerusalem.
John 20 it was Jesus who told Mary about the resurrection during her second visit.

#10. Does Mary wish to tell the disciples what occurred?

Matt 28:8 says..Yes..They departed and ran to tell the disciples.
Mark 16::8 says..No..They said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
Luke 24:9 says..Yes..Returning from the tomb, they told all this to the eleven and all the others.
John 20:18 says Yes..mary Magdalene told them "I have seen the Lord"

#11. To whom and where does Jesus make his first appearance?

Matt 28:9 says..Both Marys, on their way to Jerusalem, after leaving the tomb.
Mark..jesus makes no appearance following the crucifixion. Originally, the book of Mark abruptly ended without any description of Jesus encountering Mary or the disciples following the crucifixion. Early church scribes were so alarmed by Marks disappointing conclusion that they added their own, appending 12 additional verses (16:9-20) which describe some of Jesus's appearances to Mary and the disciples after Mary fled the tomb (18:8-9.
Luke 24:13-18..Cleopas an other in Emmaus.
John 20:1, 11-14 to Mary Magdalene at the tomb. Paul claims Jesus appeared first to Peter..1Cor.15:5.

#12. Is Mary allowed to touch Jesus after the resurrection?

Matt 28:9 says Yes, "they came and held him by his feet and worshiped him"
Not mentioned in Mark .
Luke 24:39 says..Yes.."Behold my hands and my feet and see"
John 20:17 says..No..Jesus said to her, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father"

#13.How many times does Jesus appear after the resurrection?

Matt 28:9-20..Two times.
Mark 16:9-18..Three times.
Luke 24:13-51..Two times.
John 20:14-21:23. Four times. Paul in 1 Cor. 15:5-8 says six times.

That's enough for now, but how can these varying storylines be God breathed.

I've read and listened to Christian apologists try to explain the differences as when multiple people witness a car wreck, some will see the incident different than other witnesses.

But if the Greek bible is God breathed, there should be no discrepancies.

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 14:09:28   #
Rose42
 
Michael Rich wrote:
Let's look at the resurrection accounts to see if there's a harmony of words.

Here are a few different versions of what Christianity believes is God breathed...

#1..Did Jesus drink what was offered to him?

Matt 27:34 says yes...(wine and gall)
Mark 15:23 says that Jesus didn't drink it.
Luke 23:36 says he was offered vinegar, but doesn't say if he drank it.
John 19:29-30 says yes, he did drink the vinegar.

#2. Did the two thieves believe in Jesus?

Matt. 27:44 says neither believed in Jesus.
Mark 15:32 says neither.
Luke 23:39-41 says one thief did the other didn't.
John doesn't mention it.

#3. What were Jesus last dying words on the cross?

Matt 27:46 says..Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani (My God, my God, why did You forsake me?)
Mark 15:34 says the same as Matt.
Luke 23:46 says.."Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.
John 19:30 says.."it is finished"

#4. When did Mary prepare the spices?

It's not mentioned in Matt.
Mark 16:1 says..Mary prepared spices Saturday night.
Luke 23:56 says..Mary prepared spices on Friday.
John 19:39 says..Nicodemus prepared spices on Friday.

#5. Had the sun risen when the women arrived at the tomb?

Matt 28:1 says..It was toward dawn of the first day of the week.
Mark 16:2 says..they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
Luke 24:1 says..At early dawn they went to the tomb.
John 20:1 says..Mary came to the tomb, while it was still dark.

#6. How many days was Jesus in the tomb?

Matt 28:1 says..3 days and two nights.
Mark 16:2 says 3 days and two nights.
Luke 24:1 says 3 days and two nights.
John 20:1 says..2 days and two nights.

#7. How many people came to the tomb and who were they?

Matt 28:1 says..Two, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary.
Mark 16:1 says..Three, two Mary's and Salome.
Luke 24:10 says..Four+, two Mary's, Joanna and other women.
John 20:1 says..One, Mary Magdalene came alone.

#7. Was the stone removed when the women arrived at the tomb?

Matt 29:1-2 says..No, An angel rolled the stone away after the women arrived.
Mark 16:4 says..Yes, The stone had already been rolled away when they arrived.
Luke 24:2 says..Yes..the stone had already been rolled away when they arrived.
John 20:1 says..Yes..the stone had been rolled away when Mary arrived.

#8. How many angels were at the tomb?

Matt 28:2 says..One angel sitting on the stone which he rolled away from the tomb.
Mark 16:5 says..One young man sitting on the right side , inside the tomb.
Luke 24:4 says..Two men standing by them inside the tomb.
John 20:1-12 says.. No angels at first, the second time Mary arrived at the tomb, two angels are sitting inside.

#9. What are the angels instructions at the tomb?

Matt 28:6-7 says..Go to Galilee to meet Jesus..he is not here, he has risen...tell his disciples he is going before you to Galilee.
Mark 16:6-7 says..Go to Galilee to meet Jesus..do not be amazed..he has risen..tell his disciples and Peter he is going before you to Galilee.
Luke 25:5-7;..49 The women were specifically instructed not to go to Galilee, but to stay in Jerusalem. In Acts 1:4 He commanded them that should should not leave Jerusalem.
John 20 it was Jesus who told Mary about the resurrection during her second visit.

#10. Does Mary wish to tell the disciples what occurred?

Matt 28:8 says..Yes..They departed and ran to tell the disciples.
Mark 16::8 says..No..They said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
Luke 24:9 says..Yes..Returning from the tomb, they told all this to the eleven and all the others.
John 20:18 says Yes..mary Magdalene told them "I have seen the Lord"

#11. To whom and where does Jesus make his first appearance?

Matt 28:9 says..Both Marys, on their way to Jerusalem, after leaving the tomb.
Mark..jesus makes no appearance following the crucifixion. Originally, the book of Mark abruptly ended without any description of Jesus encountering Mary or the disciples following the crucifixion. Early church scribes were so alarmed by Marks disappointing conclusion that they added their own, appending 12 additional verses (16:9-20) which describe some of Jesus's appearances to Mary and the disciples after Mary fled the tomb (18:8-9.
Luke 24:13-18..Cleopas an other in Emmaus.
John 20:1, 11-14 to Mary Magdalene at the tomb. Paul claims Jesus appeared first to Peter..1Cor.15:5.

#12. Is Mary allowed to touch Jesus after the resurrection?

Matt 28:9 says Yes, "they came and held him by his feet and worshiped him"
Not mentioned in Mark .
Luke 24:39 says..Yes.."Behold my hands and my feet and see"
John 20:17 says..No..Jesus said to her, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father"

#13.How many times does Jesus appear after the resurrection?

Matt 28:9-20..Two times.
Mark 16:9-18..Three times.
Luke 24:13-51..Two times.
John 20:14-21:23. Four times. Paul in 1 Cor. 15:5-8 says six times.

That's enough for now, but how can these varying storylines be God breathed.

I've read and listened to Christian apologists try to explain the differences as when multiple people witness a car wreck, some will see the incident different than other witnesses.

But if the Greek bible is God breathed, there should be no discrepancies.
Let's look at the resurrection accounts to see if ... (show quote)


You’re batting a solid .000. Its always worth pointing out that if you reject Christ and are looking for reasons to not believe then your mind is closed.

Each has a different purpose. If they didn’t then there would only have been one. Pretty simple

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 14:43:24   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Rose42 wrote:
You’re batting a solid .000. Its always worth pointing out that if you reject Christ and are looking for reasons to not believe then your mind is closed.

Each has a different purpose. If they didn’t then there would only have been one. Pretty simple


Swing and a miss.

Makes no sense. What is the purpose of the many differences in one story.

Reply
 
 
Jul 7, 2021 16:38:09   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Michael Rich wrote:
Let's look at the resurrection accounts to see if there's a harmony of words.

Here are a few different versions of what Christianity believes is God breathed...

#1..Did Jesus drink what was offered to him?

Matt 27:34 says yes...(wine and gall)
Mark 15:23 says that Jesus didn't drink it.
Luke 23:36 says he was offered vinegar, but doesn't say if he drank it.
John 19:29-30 says yes, he did drink the vinegar.

#2. Did the two thieves believe in Jesus?

Matt. 27:44 says neither believed in Jesus.
Mark 15:32 says neither.
Luke 23:39-41 says one thief did the other didn't.
John doesn't mention it.

#3. What were Jesus last dying words on the cross?

Matt 27:46 says..Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani (My God, my God, why did You forsake me?)
Mark 15:34 says the same as Matt.
Luke 23:46 says.."Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.
John 19:30 says.."it is finished"

#4. When did Mary prepare the spices?

It's not mentioned in Matt.
Mark 16:1 says..Mary prepared spices Saturday night.
Luke 23:56 says..Mary prepared spices on Friday.
John 19:39 says..Nicodemus prepared spices on Friday.

#5. Had the sun risen when the women arrived at the tomb?

Matt 28:1 says..It was toward dawn of the first day of the week.
Mark 16:2 says..they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
Luke 24:1 says..At early dawn they went to the tomb.
John 20:1 says..Mary came to the tomb, while it was still dark.

#6. How many days was Jesus in the tomb?

Matt 28:1 says..3 days and two nights.
Mark 16:2 says 3 days and two nights.
Luke 24:1 says 3 days and two nights.
John 20:1 says..2 days and two nights.

#7. How many people came to the tomb and who were they?

Matt 28:1 says..Two, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary.
Mark 16:1 says..Three, two Mary's and Salome.
Luke 24:10 says..Four+, two Mary's, Joanna and other women.
John 20:1 says..One, Mary Magdalene came alone.

#7. Was the stone removed when the women arrived at the tomb?

Matt 29:1-2 says..No, An angel rolled the stone away after the women arrived.
Mark 16:4 says..Yes, The stone had already been rolled away when they arrived.
Luke 24:2 says..Yes..the stone had already been rolled away when they arrived.
John 20:1 says..Yes..the stone had been rolled away when Mary arrived.

#8. How many angels were at the tomb?

Matt 28:2 says..One angel sitting on the stone which he rolled away from the tomb.
Mark 16:5 says..One young man sitting on the right side , inside the tomb.
Luke 24:4 says..Two men standing by them inside the tomb.
John 20:1-12 says.. No angels at first, the second time Mary arrived at the tomb, two angels are sitting inside.

#9. What are the angels instructions at the tomb?

Matt 28:6-7 says..Go to Galilee to meet Jesus..he is not here, he has risen...tell his disciples he is going before you to Galilee.
Mark 16:6-7 says..Go to Galilee to meet Jesus..do not be amazed..he has risen..tell his disciples and Peter he is going before you to Galilee.
Luke 25:5-7;..49 The women were specifically instructed not to go to Galilee, but to stay in Jerusalem. In Acts 1:4 He commanded them that should should not leave Jerusalem.
John 20 it was Jesus who told Mary about the resurrection during her second visit.

#10. Does Mary wish to tell the disciples what occurred?

Matt 28:8 says..Yes..They departed and ran to tell the disciples.
Mark 16::8 says..No..They said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
Luke 24:9 says..Yes..Returning from the tomb, they told all this to the eleven and all the others.
John 20:18 says Yes..mary Magdalene told them "I have seen the Lord"

#11. To whom and where does Jesus make his first appearance?

Matt 28:9 says..Both Marys, on their way to Jerusalem, after leaving the tomb.
Mark..jesus makes no appearance following the crucifixion. Originally, the book of Mark abruptly ended without any description of Jesus encountering Mary or the disciples following the crucifixion. Early church scribes were so alarmed by Marks disappointing conclusion that they added their own, appending 12 additional verses (16:9-20) which describe some of Jesus's appearances to Mary and the disciples after Mary fled the tomb (18:8-9.
Luke 24:13-18..Cleopas an other in Emmaus.
John 20:1, 11-14 to Mary Magdalene at the tomb. Paul claims Jesus appeared first to Peter..1Cor.15:5.

#12. Is Mary allowed to touch Jesus after the resurrection?

Matt 28:9 says Yes, "they came and held him by his feet and worshiped him"
Not mentioned in Mark .
Luke 24:39 says..Yes.."Behold my hands and my feet and see"
John 20:17 says..No..Jesus said to her, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father"

#13.How many times does Jesus appear after the resurrection?

Matt 28:9-20..Two times.
Mark 16:9-18..Three times.
Luke 24:13-51..Two times.
John 20:14-21:23. Four times. Paul in 1 Cor. 15:5-8 says six times.

That's enough for now, but how can these varying storylines be God breathed.

I've read and listened to Christian apologists try to explain the differences as when multiple people witness a car wreck, some will see the incident different than other witnesses.

But if the Greek bible is God breathed, there should be no discrepancies.
Let's look at the resurrection accounts to see if ... (show quote)

Typical false teacher, always trying to find things that aren't there.

Consider the comments of an experienced Christian detective and your assertion that "there should be no discrepancies.…"

J. Warner Wallace has been a seasoned detective who for many years and has frequently had to dig through divergent eyewitness accounts. He recalled one particular robbery where he received seemingly conflicting reports from two witnesses.

He spoke about an account of a grocery store robbery where two witnesses gave seemingly contradictory accounts of a robbery suspect. At first, these statements seemed to describe two different men committing two different crimes. But, the more he spoke with the witnesses, the more he realized that both were reliable in spite of the fact they seemed to be saying different things about the suspect.

Once he determined the circumstances behind the two testimonies, could they be harmonized? Could Wallace determine what actually happened during the robbery? Wallace explains just how he handled the two different eyewitness accounts:

Once I interviewed these two witnesses, I understood why they seemed to disagree on several key points. In the end, many things impact the way witnesses observe an event. A lot depends on where a witness is located in relationship to the action. We’ve also got to consider the personal experiences and interests that cause some witnesses to focus on one aspect of the event and some to focus on another.

As the detective handling the case, it was my job to understand each witness well enough to take the best they had to offer and come to a conclusion about what really happened. Every case I handle is like this; witnesses seldom agree on every detail. In fact, when two people agree completely on every detail of their account, I am inclined to believe that they have either contaminated each other’s observations or are working together to pull the wool over my eyes. I expect truthful, reliable eyewitnesses to disagree along the way.


Take note of Wallace’s summary. He stated, “Every case I handle is like this; witnesses seldom agree on every detail.” He added, “I expect truthful, reliable eyewitnesses to disagree along the way.”

What is the takeaway with regard to the Gospel accounts of Jesus’s life, death, and resurrection? We should expect divergences in the accounts if they are truthful. This is the complete opposite expectation of the skeptic, who expects that the accounts be practically identical if they are truthful. The skeptic, in the end, simply does not understand the nature of eyewitness testimony, and therefore demands something of the Gospel accounts that should never be there, if they are true.

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 16:42:54   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Michael Rich wrote:
Swing and a miss.

Makes no sense. What is the purpose of the many differences in one story.


Well for one thing, besides the eyewitness thingy I mentioned in another post, their audiences and purpose were different:

• Mathew addressed the Jews and focused on Jesus as a fulfillment of a prophecy
• Mark addressed the Romans and focused on Jesus as a divine servant
• Luke addressed the Gentiles and focused on the humanity of Jesus Christ
• John focused on Jesus’ revelation about Himself and the last days of Jesus.

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 17:25:02   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
Michael Rich wrote:
Let's look at the resurrection accounts to see if there's a harmony of words.

Here are a few different versions of what Christianity believes is God breathed...

#1..Did Jesus drink what was offered to him?

Matt 27:34 says yes...(wine and gall)
Mark 15:23 says that Jesus didn't drink it.
Luke 23:36 says he was offered vinegar, but doesn't say if he drank it.
John 19:29-30 says yes, he did drink the vinegar.

#2. Did the two thieves believe in Jesus?

Matt. 27:44 says neither believed in Jesus.
Mark 15:32 says neither.
Luke 23:39-41 says one thief did the other didn't.
John doesn't mention it.

#3. What were Jesus last dying words on the cross?

Matt 27:46 says..Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani (My God, my God, why did You forsake me?)
Mark 15:34 says the same as Matt.
Luke 23:46 says.."Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.
John 19:30 says.."it is finished"

#4. When did Mary prepare the spices?

It's not mentioned in Matt.
Mark 16:1 says..Mary prepared spices Saturday night.
Luke 23:56 says..Mary prepared spices on Friday.
John 19:39 says..Nicodemus prepared spices on Friday.

#5. Had the sun risen when the women arrived at the tomb?

Matt 28:1 says..It was toward dawn of the first day of the week.
Mark 16:2 says..they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
Luke 24:1 says..At early dawn they went to the tomb.
John 20:1 says..Mary came to the tomb, while it was still dark.

#6. How many days was Jesus in the tomb?

Matt 28:1 says..3 days and two nights.
Mark 16:2 says 3 days and two nights.
Luke 24:1 says 3 days and two nights.
John 20:1 says..2 days and two nights.

#7. How many people came to the tomb and who were they?

Matt 28:1 says..Two, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary.
Mark 16:1 says..Three, two Mary's and Salome.
Luke 24:10 says..Four+, two Mary's, Joanna and other women.
John 20:1 says..One, Mary Magdalene came alone.

#7. Was the stone removed when the women arrived at the tomb?

Matt 29:1-2 says..No, An angel rolled the stone away after the women arrived.
Mark 16:4 says..Yes, The stone had already been rolled away when they arrived.
Luke 24:2 says..Yes..the stone had already been rolled away when they arrived.
John 20:1 says..Yes..the stone had been rolled away when Mary arrived.

#8. How many angels were at the tomb?

Matt 28:2 says..One angel sitting on the stone which he rolled away from the tomb.
Mark 16:5 says..One young man sitting on the right side , inside the tomb.
Luke 24:4 says..Two men standing by them inside the tomb.
John 20:1-12 says.. No angels at first, the second time Mary arrived at the tomb, two angels are sitting inside.

#9. What are the angels instructions at the tomb?

Matt 28:6-7 says..Go to Galilee to meet Jesus..he is not here, he has risen...tell his disciples he is going before you to Galilee.
Mark 16:6-7 says..Go to Galilee to meet Jesus..do not be amazed..he has risen..tell his disciples and Peter he is going before you to Galilee.
Luke 25:5-7;..49 The women were specifically instructed not to go to Galilee, but to stay in Jerusalem. In Acts 1:4 He commanded them that should should not leave Jerusalem.
John 20 it was Jesus who told Mary about the resurrection during her second visit.

#10. Does Mary wish to tell the disciples what occurred?

Matt 28:8 says..Yes..They departed and ran to tell the disciples.
Mark 16::8 says..No..They said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
Luke 24:9 says..Yes..Returning from the tomb, they told all this to the eleven and all the others.
John 20:18 says Yes..mary Magdalene told them "I have seen the Lord"

#11. To whom and where does Jesus make his first appearance?

Matt 28:9 says..Both Marys, on their way to Jerusalem, after leaving the tomb.
Mark..jesus makes no appearance following the crucifixion. Originally, the book of Mark abruptly ended without any description of Jesus encountering Mary or the disciples following the crucifixion. Early church scribes were so alarmed by Marks disappointing conclusion that they added their own, appending 12 additional verses (16:9-20) which describe some of Jesus's appearances to Mary and the disciples after Mary fled the tomb (18:8-9.
Luke 24:13-18..Cleopas an other in Emmaus.
John 20:1, 11-14 to Mary Magdalene at the tomb. Paul claims Jesus appeared first to Peter..1Cor.15:5.

#12. Is Mary allowed to touch Jesus after the resurrection?

Matt 28:9 says Yes, "they came and held him by his feet and worshiped him"
Not mentioned in Mark .
Luke 24:39 says..Yes.."Behold my hands and my feet and see"
John 20:17 says..No..Jesus said to her, "Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father"

#13.How many times does Jesus appear after the resurrection?

Matt 28:9-20..Two times.
Mark 16:9-18..Three times.
Luke 24:13-51..Two times.
John 20:14-21:23. Four times. Paul in 1 Cor. 15:5-8 says six times.

That's enough for now, but how can these varying storylines be God breathed.

I've read and listened to Christian apologists try to explain the differences as when multiple people witness a car wreck, some will see the incident different than other witnesses.

But if the Greek bible is God breathed, there should be no discrepancies.
Let's look at the resurrection accounts to see if ... (show quote)

Luke 24:33-50
” 33 And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. And they xfound the eleven and ythose who were with them gathered together, 34 saying, “The Lord has risen indeed, and zhas appeared to Simon!” 35 Then they told what had happened on the road, and ahow he was known to them in bthe breaking of the bread.
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
36 As they were talking about these things, cJesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” 37 But they were dstartled and efrightened and fthought they saw a spirit. 38 And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. gTouch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40 And when he had said this, hhe showed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they still disbelieved ifor joy and were marveling, jhe said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,2 43 and he took it and ate before them.
44 Then he said to them, k“These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, lthat everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then mhe opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus nit is written, othat the Christ should suffer and on the third day prise from the dead, 47 and that qrepentance for3 the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed rin his name sto all nations, tbeginning from Jerusalem. 48 uYou are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending vthe promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you ware clothed with xpower yfrom on high.”
The Ascension
50 And zhe led them out as far as aBethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. 51 While he blessed them, bhe parted from them and was carried up into heaven. 52 And they cworshiped him and zreturned to Jerusalem dwith great joy, 53 and ewere continually in the temple fblessing God.

Michael I wanted to show you how someone is using scripture to lure people away from Jesus Christ. If Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus why would he not use man to twist scripture to test man’s ability to understand the Bible! Luke 24:39 is not directed to Mary….Jesus is talking to his disciples. Your #12 is deceptive. It states, Is Mary allowed to touch Jesus! When just one scripture is used to attempt to make a point it is very often misleading.

Everyone of your examples have explanations, but if you don’t accept who Jesus is, you won’t accept them! I didn’t look anymore up because I’ve seen this tactic used before.

Michael, I pray your eyes will be opened to the saving Grace of our Lord and Savior. We have shared our love and faith because we care deeply.

It’s a beautiful afternoon here on the coast and not too hot…….it’s finally stopped raining and our daughter, grandchildren, and youngest great-grandson have gone back to Texas…….and I’m NOT cooking tonight! LOL!

Have a wonderful blessed evening! 🙏🏻

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 17:48:27   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Parky60 wrote:
Typical false teacher, always trying to find things that aren't there.

Consider the comments of an experienced Christian detective and your assertion that "there should be no discrepancies.…"

J. Warner Wallace has been a seasoned detective who for many years and has frequently had to dig through divergent eyewitness accounts. He recalled one particular robbery where he received seemingly conflicting reports from two witnesses.

He spoke about an account of a grocery store robbery where two witnesses gave seemingly contradictory accounts of a robbery suspect. At first, these statements seemed to describe two different men committing two different crimes. But, the more he spoke with the witnesses, the more he realized that both were reliable in spite of the fact they seemed to be saying different things about the suspect.

Once he determined the circumstances behind the two testimonies, could they be harmonized? Could Wallace determine what actually happened during the robbery? Wallace explains just how he handled the two different eyewitness accounts:

Once I interviewed these two witnesses, I understood why they seemed to disagree on several key points. In the end, many things impact the way witnesses observe an event. A lot depends on where a witness is located in relationship to the action. We’ve also got to consider the personal experiences and interests that cause some witnesses to focus on one aspect of the event and some to focus on another.

As the detective handling the case, it was my job to understand each witness well enough to take the best they had to offer and come to a conclusion about what really happened. Every case I handle is like this; witnesses seldom agree on every detail. In fact, when two people agree completely on every detail of their account, I am inclined to believe that they have either contaminated each other’s observations or are working together to pull the wool over my eyes. I expect truthful, reliable eyewitnesses to disagree along the way.


Take note of Wallace’s summary. He stated, “Every case I handle is like this; witnesses seldom agree on every detail.” He added, “I expect truthful, reliable eyewitnesses to disagree along the way.”

What is the takeaway with regard to the Gospel accounts of Jesus’s life, death, and resurrection? We should expect divergences in the accounts if they are truthful. This is the complete opposite expectation of the skeptic, who expects that the accounts be practically identical if they are truthful. The skeptic, in the end, simply does not understand the nature of eyewitness testimony, and therefore demands something of the Gospel accounts that should never be there, if they are true.
Typical false teacher, always trying to find thing... (show quote)


So something that you believe is "God breathed" is expected to have errors?

I'm not the one who made or caused the Greek bible to have discrepancies.

I bet that if your bank statement had the percentage of oddities and discrepancies that the resurrection stories have, you'd sure be checking into it.

Reply
 
 
Jul 7, 2021 18:00:24   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
TexaCan wrote:
Luke 24:33-50
” 33 And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. And they xfound the eleven and ythose who were with them gathered together, 34 saying, “The Lord has risen indeed, and zhas appeared to Simon!” 35 Then they told what had happened on the road, and ahow he was known to them in bthe breaking of the bread.
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
36 As they were talking about these things, cJesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” 37 But they were dstartled and efrightened and fthought they saw a spirit. 38 And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. gTouch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40 And when he had said this, hhe showed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they still disbelieved ifor joy and were marveling, jhe said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish,2 43 and he took it and ate before them.
44 Then he said to them, k“These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, lthat everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then mhe opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus nit is written, othat the Christ should suffer and on the third day prise from the dead, 47 and that qrepentance for3 the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed rin his name sto all nations, tbeginning from Jerusalem. 48 uYou are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending vthe promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you ware clothed with xpower yfrom on high.”
The Ascension
50 And zhe led them out as far as aBethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them. 51 While he blessed them, bhe parted from them and was carried up into heaven. 52 And they cworshiped him and zreturned to Jerusalem dwith great joy, 53 and ewere continually in the temple fblessing God.

Michael I wanted to show you how someone is using scripture to lure people away from Jesus Christ. If Satan used scripture to tempt Jesus why would he not use man to twist scripture to test man’s ability to understand the Bible! Luke 24:39 is not directed to Mary….Jesus is talking to his disciples. Your #12 is deceptive. It states, Is Mary allowed to touch Jesus! When just one scripture is used to attempt to make a point it is very often misleading.

Everyone of your examples have explanations, but if you don’t accept who Jesus is, you won’t accept them! I didn’t look anymore up because I’ve seen this tactic used before.

Michael, I pray your eyes will be opened to the saving Grace of our Lord and Savior. We have shared our love and faith because we care deeply.

It’s a beautiful afternoon here on the coast and not too hot…….it’s finally stopped raining and our daughter, grandchildren, and youngest great-grandson have gone back to Texas…….and I’m NOT cooking tonight! LOL!

Have a wonderful blessed evening! 🙏🏻
Luke 24:33-50 br ” 33 And they rose that same hour... (show quote)



Thank you TexaCan, your replies are always graceful and polite.

Grandchildren are a true blessing in life and can wear us out.

I now live with my oldest son my wonderful daughter in law and two full of energy grandsons.

My son is a computer tech and my daughter in law is a deputy sheriff.

They both work massive hours and I get the boys...its absolutely a great blessing for me.

I do know that one day soon, we'll all know if we honored our Creator in this life.

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 18:22:08   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Michael Rich wrote:
So something that you believe is "God breathed" is expected to have errors?

I'm not the one who made or caused the Greek bible to have discrepancies.

I bet that if your bank statement had the percentage of oddities and discrepancies that the resurrection stories have, you'd sure be checking into it.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

There are no discrepencies. Each one of them is from a different human's perspective.

The pride in you is ENORMOUS and blinds you, Like TexaCan, I've prayed for you before and I'll pray for you again.

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 18:38:02   #
Rose42
 
Michael Rich wrote:
So something that you believe is "God breathed" is expected to have errors?

I'm not the one who made or caused the Greek bible to have discrepancies.

I bet that if your bank statement had the percentage of oddities and discrepancies that the resurrection stories have, you'd sure be checking into it.


When your eyes are veiled you will never see past the superficial. Thats where you are now.

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 18:55:13   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Parky60 wrote:
There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

There are no discrepencies. Each one of them is from a different human's perspective.

The pride in you is ENORMOUS and blinds you, Like TexaCan, I've prayed for you before and I'll pray for you again.


God does at times of his choosing answer the prayers from most all walks of life.

Never assume that me giving up Christianity was easy.

I was mad at God for allowing me to be fooled into thinking that there were two Gods.

Then I had a better thought, that if I would have actually paid attention to what I believed, I wouldn't have overlooked some glaringly obvious idolatrous beliefs that I was 1000% sure that were in honor of the Lord of Hosts.

Don't think that it was an easy task for me to admit that I was wrong, especially in front of long time friends who I used to preach to...you want to talk about swallowing a truck load of pride...i had to or bust.

When we debate, don't ever get the impression that I think that God looks upon me, better than he does you or anyone else who is here.

The Christian church that I was born into and went for 35 yrs was the most conservative church that I've ever seen.

Yep...admitting to one's self and to other's who knew my staunch Christian stance, that I had been fooled, was a big helping of humble pie.

Reply
 
 
Jul 7, 2021 19:04:24   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Rose42 wrote:
When your eyes are veiled you will never see past the superficial. Thats where you are now.


Did you know that we are warned to Search out the scriptures?

That means just like you would your bank statement...no, back up, way more attention to detail should be used on our salvation than bank accounts.

Every jot and tittle is what our Creator expects us to study.

No excuses...On judgement day, when the book is opened, we will look less guilty if we can say to God...."yes Lord, I read the whole letter that you wrote for me"

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 20:00:56   #
Rose42
 
Michael Rich wrote:
Did you know that we are warned to Search out the scriptures?

That means just like you would your bank statement...no, back up, way more attention to detail should be used on our salvation than bank accounts.

Every jot and tittle is what our Creator expects us to study.

No excuses...On judgement day, when the book is opened, we will look less guilty if we can say to God...."yes Lord, I read the whole letter that you wrote for me"


Yes I know. I suggest you take your own advice too. You reject a very important part and it was foretold.

You were never a Christian. What you turned your back on was the idea of Christianity and its familiarity. You rejected the truth in favor of something easier for you to believe.

Reply
Jul 7, 2021 22:03:28   #
Parky60 Loc: People's Republic of Illinois
 
Michael Rich wrote:
...No excuses...On judgement day, when the book is opened, we will look less guilty if we can say to God...."yes Lord, I read the whole letter that you wrote for me"

And if you're not covered by the blood of Jesus Christ, you'll go to hell.

Reply
Jul 8, 2021 11:15:53   #
Michael Rich Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Parky60 wrote:
Well for one thing, besides the eyewitness thingy I mentioned in another post, their audiences and purpose were different:

• Mathew addressed the Jews and focused on Jesus as a fulfillment of a prophecy
• Mark addressed the Romans and focused on Jesus as a divine servant
• Luke addressed the Gentiles and focused on the humanity of Jesus Christ
• John focused on Jesus’ revelation about Himself and the last days of Jesus.


So with each different audience God wanted slightly varying stories?

No amount of Christian apologism can make it look any other way than it is.

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