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Oxygen shortage in hospitals in India. Anticipated reaction in OPP.
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May 3, 2021 01:49:55   #
3507
 
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/may/02/they-knew-we-werent-giving-oxygen-a-delhi-doctors-week-of-horror ) and thought to myself: I wonder what the OPP folks would say about it.

And then I thought: Most of those OPP folks are going to say things like: "It's just a hoax anyway." Or, "It's over there; it doesn't have anything to do with us." Or "It's their own fault."

So I find this interesting in a macabre way. (Make no mistake about what I think: I do think it's an awful situation in the hospitals in India. And I don't think it's "their" fault -- although it might be Mr. Modi's fault -- he's the political leader in India who had the power to lead better regarding the pandemic.)

I present it as an Original Post, because it seems unfair to burden someone else's post by sneaking this into a reply. I'll be sneaky some other day, but just not this time.

I won't be able to keep up with responses; I'll be gone about a day anyway; but I'm curious; when I find time to drop in here, I wonder whether you'll have told me your reactions, and whether I guessed correctly about how you would react to this article.

Reply
May 3, 2021 01:52:52   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
3507 wrote:
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/may/02/they-knew-we-werent-giving-oxygen-a-delhi-doctors-week-of-horror ) and thought to myself: I wonder what the OPP folks would say about it.

And then I thought: Most of those OPP folks are going to say things like: "It's just a hoax anyway." Or, "It's over there; it doesn't have anything to do with us." Or "It's their own fault."

So I find this interesting in a macabre way. (Make no mistake about what I think: I do think it's an awful situation in the hospitals in India. And I don't think it's "their" fault -- although it might be Mr. Modi's fault -- he's the political leader in India who had the power to lead better regarding the pandemic.)

I present it as an Original Post, because it seems unfair to burden someone else's post by sneaking this into a reply. I'll be sneaky some other day, but just not this time.

I won't be able to keep up with responses; I'll be gone about a day anyway; but I'm curious; when I find time to drop in here, I wonder whether you'll have told me your reactions, and whether I guessed correctly about how you would react to this article.
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardi... (show quote)


Modi started out well dealing with the pandemic... The various political parties of India put aside their differences and worked together for the greater good...

It didn't last...

Indians are to blame for this... Collectively...

It's what happens when people are unable to cooperate...

Reply
May 3, 2021 01:57:41   #
proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA
 
3507 wrote:
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/may/02/they-knew-we-werent-giving-oxygen-a-delhi-doctors-week-of-horror ) and thought to myself: I wonder what the OPP folks would say about it.

And then I thought: Most of those OPP folks are going to say things like: "It's just a hoax anyway." Or, "It's over there; it doesn't have anything to do with us." Or "It's their own fault."

So I find this interesting in a macabre way. (Make no mistake about what I think: I do think it's an awful situation in the hospitals in India. And I don't think it's "their" fault -- although it might be Mr. Modi's fault -- he's the political leader in India who had the power to lead better regarding the pandemic.)

I present it as an Original Post, because it seems unfair to burden someone else's post by sneaking this into a reply. I'll be sneaky some other day, but just not this time.

I won't be able to keep up with responses; I'll be gone about a day anyway; but I'm curious; when I find time to drop in here, I wonder whether you'll have told me your reactions, and whether I guessed correctly about how you would react to this article.
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardi... (show quote)


You font think much about most faulks on OPP,do you??? Well speaking for myself I think its terrible, awful thing to happen to these poor people And I don't thinks it's a hoax either... Okay?

Reply
 
 
May 3, 2021 05:26:22   #
PeterS
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Modi started out well dealing with the pandemic... The various political parties of India put aside their differences and worked together for the greater good...

It didn't last...

Indians are to blame for this... Collectively...

It's what happens when people are unable to cooperate...

We don't play well with others yet it didn't happen here...to that degree that is. We were close though and though we dodged a bullet isn't to say that bullets can't kill you which makes you wonder why there are those amongst us who continue to enjoy playing with guns?

I think the virus is to blame. It seems population density makes the virus worse. Here NY city got it the worst and in India, the virus reached a level where it's completely out of control.

Reply
May 3, 2021 08:00:01   #
Tiptop789 Loc: State of Denial
 
3507 wrote:
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/may/02/they-knew-we-werent-giving-oxygen-a-delhi-doctors-week-of-horror ) and thought to myself: I wonder what the OPP folks would say about it.

And then I thought: Most of those OPP folks are going to say things like: "It's just a hoax anyway." Or, "It's over there; it doesn't have anything to do with us." Or "It's their own fault."

So I find this interesting in a macabre way. (Make no mistake about what I think: I do think it's an awful situation in the hospitals in India. And I don't think it's "their" fault -- although it might be Mr. Modi's fault -- he's the political leader in India who had the power to lead better regarding the pandemic.)

I present it as an Original Post, because it seems unfair to burden someone else's post by sneaking this into a reply. I'll be sneaky some other day, but just not this time.

I won't be able to keep up with responses; I'll be gone about a day anyway; but I'm curious; when I find time to drop in here, I wonder whether you'll have told me your reactions, and whether I guessed correctly about how you would react to this article.
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardi... (show quote)


Some will think it false, fake news by some super secret group to take over the world. I think it's a tragedy of epic proportions. ACP45 has already posted nonsense about how untrue these stores are & Trump's magic portion could cure all.

Reply
May 3, 2021 08:04:36   #
Anvil
 
PeterS wrote:
We don't play well with others yet it didn't happen here...to that degree that is. We were close though and though we dodged a bullet isn't to say that bullets can't kill you which makes you wonder why there are those amongst us who continue to enjoy playing with guns?

I think the virus is to blame. It seems population density makes the virus worse. Here NY city got it the worst and in India, the virus reached a level where it's completely out of control.


What prompts you to say 'we (assuming you mean Americans) don't play well with others' about a tragedy in India?

Reply
May 3, 2021 09:30:56   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
3507 wrote:
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/may/02/they-knew-we-werent-giving-oxygen-a-delhi-doctors-week-of-horror ) and thought to myself: I wonder what the OPP folks would say about it.

And then I thought: Most of those OPP folks are going to say things like: "It's just a hoax anyway." Or, "It's over there; it doesn't have anything to do with us." Or "It's their own fault."

So I find this interesting in a macabre way. (Make no mistake about what I think: I do think it's an awful situation in the hospitals in India. And I don't think it's "their" fault -- although it might be Mr. Modi's fault -- he's the political leader in India who had the power to lead better regarding the pandemic.)

I present it as an Original Post, because it seems unfair to burden someone else's post by sneaking this into a reply. I'll be sneaky some other day, but just not this time.

I won't be able to keep up with responses; I'll be gone about a day anyway; but I'm curious; when I find time to drop in here, I wonder whether you'll have told me your reactions, and whether I guessed correctly about how you would react to this article.
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardi... (show quote)


A horrific situation that where the blame isn’t on OPP members or anyone else other than the callous disregard of “ Last year was bad enough but the last week has been one of horror. With the city notching up more than 25,000 new infections a day, oxygen supplies ran out across the city as no one in the government had prepared for such an explosion of cases.” says in the article...

India was no exception to the world news going on and out about this virus... They, heard, read, and witnessed these things within their own structure and yet obviously did not “ prepare” or get needed supplies from whomever and wherever they could like every country was doing last year and this considering the constant surges taking place all over the world......

Where was the UN, in all their knowledge and major role of “ humanitarian rights” that they either knew little of it or just ignored or?? Where is Fauci, the CDC and WHO in trying to help India get oxygen, other supplies and looking for alternatives to get help to them?? Where is the India government and why have they abrogated such measures to get things under control by begging for, screaming bloody damn murder for supplies to that big UN that is supposedly there to help in such conditions??

Fauci so busy playing big man politician in the United States he completely ignores the rest of the world? Another strike against that little twit!

Blame, yes, but not here in OPP.. Put it where it belongs if you must have someone to blame!! Those I’ve suggested may be a starting point with validity and certainly India’s own government where human life is just not as important...

They, like cuomo under reported deaths and lacked sufficient testing to begin with and now the citizens suffer the consequence..

Reply
 
 
May 3, 2021 09:35:48   #
Kevyn
 
3507 wrote:
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/may/02/they-knew-we-werent-giving-oxygen-a-delhi-doctors-week-of-horror ) and thought to myself: I wonder what the OPP folks would say about it.

And then I thought: Most of those OPP folks are going to say things like: "It's just a hoax anyway." Or, "It's over there; it doesn't have anything to do with us." Or "It's their own fault."

So I find this interesting in a macabre way. (Make no mistake about what I think: I do think it's an awful situation in the hospitals in India. And I don't think it's "their" fault -- although it might be Mr. Modi's fault -- he's the political leader in India who had the power to lead better regarding the pandemic.)

I present it as an Original Post, because it seems unfair to burden someone else's post by sneaking this into a reply. I'll be sneaky some other day, but just not this time.

I won't be able to keep up with responses; I'll be gone about a day anyway; but I'm curious; when I find time to drop in here, I wonder whether you'll have told me your reactions, and whether I guessed correctly about how you would react to this article.
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardi... (show quote)

They allowed a number of superspreader events and are now sadly paying the price. This is a matter of following century old knowledge about preventing the spread of disease until a majority of the population is vaccinated. Just common sense.

Reply
May 4, 2021 23:39:09   #
3507
 
proud republican wrote:
You font think much about most faulks on OPP,do you??? Well speaking for myself I think its terrible, awful thing to happen to these poor people And I don't thinks it's a hoax either... Okay?


Thanks. I thought you might think like that ("...terrible...poor..." and not a hoax). (I had seen some of your recent posts.)

So many posts (replies in threads on OPP) have been deliberately insulting and not much else. Of course I don't think much of that, nor of the people who continually write that way.

Reply
May 5, 2021 00:20:33   #
3507
 
lindajoy wrote:
A horrific situation that where the blame isn’t on OPP members or anyone else other than the callous disregard of “ Last year was bad enough but the last week has been one of horror. With the city notching up more than 25,000 new infections a day, oxygen supplies ran out across the city as no one in the government had prepared for such an explosion of cases.” says in the article...

India was no exception to the world news going on and out about this virus... They, heard, read, and witnessed these things within their own structure and yet obviously did not “ prepare” or get needed supplies from whomever and wherever they could like every country was doing last year and this considering the constant surges taking place all over the world......

Where was the UN, in all their knowledge and major role of “ humanitarian rights” that they either knew little of it or just ignored or?? Where is Fauci, the CDC and WHO in trying to help India get oxygen, other supplies and looking for alternatives to get help to them?? Where is the India government and why have they abrogated such measures to get things under control by begging for, screaming bloody damn murder for supplies to that big UN that is supposedly there to help in such conditions??

Fauci so busy playing big man politician in the United States he completely ignores the rest of the world? Another strike against that little twit!

Blame, yes, but not here in OPP.. Put it where it belongs if you must have someone to blame!! Those I’ve suggested may be a starting point with validity and certainly India’s own government where human life is just not as important...

They, like cuomo under reported deaths and lacked sufficient testing to begin with and now the citizens suffer the consequence..
A horrific situation that where the blame isn’t on... (show quote)


There are many millions of people to blame.

But in my mind I blame some of the world leaders: the ones who failed to take the pandemic seriously and apply their governments to it and lead their people in appropriate responses to it: Trump, Bolsanaro, Boris Johnson -- the ones who "played down" the significance of the virus and favored profits over people. I don't know the politics but I have thought Modi was one of those bad leaders like those three I listed. I know that many here on OPP disagree with me about whom to blame, and disagree with me about who's a bad leader and who isn't.

Fauci's job is to say the truth. He's done his job fairly well. It's not his fault if he's become very well known. (You call him a big man politician.)

You refer to the UN etc. I would think of the WHO (World Health Organization). The WHO was helpful earlier in the pandemic; but what did the U.S. President Trump do -- he withdrew from WHO and some other cooperative international agreements. From his speech at the UN a few years ago, we got a strong indication of what he thinks of international cooperation (he doesn't think much of it).

I suppose one of WHO's (and the UN's) main jobs is to coordinate nations' efforts, but they can only do that with cooperation and funding.

But I don't know details about what WHO, UN, and other organizations are doing now with India; I've read that supplies are being shipped into India but there are not enough of them and they should have been earlier.

Another think I don't know much about is whatever Biden's doing with regard to India. I know that Biden has been rejoining some of the international things that Trump withdrew from. I think Biden has a more cooperative way of doing things.

In the news I've been seeing a lot about how rich nations are keeping vaccine stock and vaccine patents for themselves, while poor nations have miniscule supplies. I interpret this to mean that the rich nations are too slow in helping and cooperating with the poor nations. And the rich nations and corporations are putting too high a priority on maintaining their own wealth. I feel that this is how "nationalism" and "capitalism" concepts are playing out. I would rather have less nationalism and less capitalism, and more cooperation.

Reply
May 5, 2021 00:36:39   #
Smedley_buzkill
 
3507 wrote:
Thanks. I thought you might think like that ("...terrible...poor..." and not a hoax). (I had seen some of your recent posts.)

So many posts (replies in threads on OPP) have been deliberately insulting and not much else. Of course I don't think much of that, nor of the people who continually write that way.


Of course we don't think much of self-righteous hanky stompers. There are all sorts of sites where those of that persuasion can get together for a whine fest. Perhaps you would prefer to be among those of a similar bent. To speak of deliberately insulting posts when you are posting one yourself is the epitome of disingenuous snark.

Reply
 
 
May 5, 2021 06:34:59   #
Anvil
 
3507 wrote:
There are many millions of people to blame.

But in my mind I blame some of the world leaders: the ones who failed to take the pandemic seriously and apply their governments to it and lead their people in appropriate responses to it: Trump, Bolsanaro, Boris Johnson -- the ones who "played down" the significance of the virus and favored profits over people. I don't know the politics but I have thought Modi was one of those bad leaders like those three I listed. I know that many here on OPP disagree with me about whom to blame, and disagree with me about who's a bad leader and who isn't.

Fauci's job is to say the truth. He's done his job fairly well. It's not his fault if he's become very well known. (You call him a big man politician.)

You refer to the UN etc. I would think of the WHO (World Health Organization). The WHO was helpful earlier in the pandemic; but what did the U.S. President Trump do -- he withdrew from WHO and some other cooperative international agreements. From his speech at the UN a few years ago, we got a strong indication of what he thinks of international cooperation (he doesn't think much of it).
There are many millions of people to blame. br br... (show quote)


"International cooperation" typically means the United States footing the bill. I don't think much of it either....

Reply
May 5, 2021 13:10:18   #
3507
 
PeterS wrote:
We don't play well with others yet it didn't happen here...to that degree that is. We were close though and though we dodged a bullet isn't to say that bullets can't kill you which makes you wonder why there are those amongst us who continue to enjoy playing with guns?

I think the virus is to blame. It seems population density makes the virus worse. Here NY city got it the worst and in India, the virus reached a level where it's completely out of control.


Of course population density is a factor that would make the virus impact worse.

Interestingly, _other_ factors also come into play (as you and others probably already know). (But _which_ factors make _how_much_ difference is harder to determine.) The most interesting country for this, to my mind, is Vietnam. It's a densely populated country. It's _right_next_to_ China which, we are convinced, is where the virus "originated". I happen to know someone in Vietnam, so I've heard a little about how things are there. There's a porous border between China and Vietnam; illegal immigrants from China often walk across the border into Vietnam. So ...

From those factors, I might have expected Vietnam to be one of the worst-hit countries in the pandemic. But it hasn't been.

(If it had been really severely hit and the government were just covering it up, my friend there would have noticed it and then I would notice it from talking with her.) (One can also check statistics online to corroborate that Vietnam has done relatively well in the pandemic. A government can only cover up so much, and then the world would start to notice the difference with the facts. (Well, and then there's North Korea which is probably successful at covering up a lot -- but Vietnam's not like North Korea -- Vietnam has a lot of contacts and mixing with other nations, so news from Vietnam would probably get out into the world, through the people and their international contacts.))

When Vietnam got ONE (1) case of Covid somewhere, the country as a whole was alarmed by it -- it was in the news all over the country. They're doing worse than that lately -- getting eleven (11) or, I suppose, maybe as many as 30 or 40 (thirty or forty) cases somewhere. My friend's city (I got the population wrong here, sorry; the city's population is about 300,000. I've been editing this post for the past several minutes but now I'll finally quit.), seems to have had very few cases; all the news about Covid cases have been coming from other parts of the country. Well, it's not over yet; we might have another year or two of this pandemic so Vietnam could still fail somewhere along the way during all that time.

Don't anyone take this the wrong way, but _some_ of the Vietnamese aren't even wearing masks and aren't practicing "social distancing". At the same time, other Vietnamese _are_ practicing all the recommended things like wearing masks and social distancing. So their population behavior is mixed, possibly somewhat like U.S. population behavior is mixed. Many of the Vietnamese do wear masks habitually. But I think that habit (pre-dating the pandemic) is mostly for when they go outside; they have to protect themselves from the polluted air (particularly during rush hour when a great many people are commuting by motorbikes or light motorcycles).

So why aren't they suffering a great many more cases of Covid? I can think of 3 or 4 reasons, although I don't really know. One thing is, the government does seem to care about the population's health, and does seem to notice every single Covid case that happens. So they're probably doing a good job of contact tracing. And I think they started early with that. Another thing is, the government there is probably more authoritarian than here, so they might have more obedience when there are lockdowns. On the other hand, most of the time there are not actual lockdowns and many (or "some"?) people are way too careless about precautions against the virus spreading.

Aside from a government that takes an interest in the population's health and in Covid cases, and contact tracing, and getting an early start in taking the pandemic seriously, and obedience from the people on the rare occasions when there are severe restrictions like a lockdown, I can think of another reason why they might be surviving the pandemic well: open windows. They don't use air conditioning as much as we do, but instead they tend to have more open windows; and I'm guessing that this helps to keep them from spreading Covid, which spreads more in enclosed spaces than in open spaces. The open windows would make more air circulation, thus helping to limit the spread of Covid.

And one more factor: remember those illegal immigrants walking from China to Vietnam? Well, China itself has probably been effective at contact tracing, getting an early start at taking the pandemic seriously, and lockdowns in some places like Wuhan (and maybe, at other times and places, getting people to wear masks and observe distancing rules). So all this together could be another reason why Covid isn't spreading much into Vietnam: because the people in China mostly don't have it either -- and this might include the illegal immigrants walking from China to Vietnam.

Reply
May 5, 2021 13:45:45   #
Rose42
 
3507 wrote:
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/may/02/they-knew-we-werent-giving-oxygen-a-delhi-doctors-week-of-horror ) and thought to myself: I wonder what the OPP folks would say about it.

And then I thought: Most of those OPP folks are going to say things like: "It's just a hoax anyway." Or, "It's over there; it doesn't have anything to do with us." Or "It's their own fault."

So I find this interesting in a macabre way. (Make no mistake about what I think: I do think it's an awful situation in the hospitals in India. And I don't think it's "their" fault -- although it might be Mr. Modi's fault -- he's the political leader in India who had the power to lead better regarding the pandemic.)

I present it as an Original Post, because it seems unfair to burden someone else's post by sneaking this into a reply. I'll be sneaky some other day, but just not this time.

I won't be able to keep up with responses; I'll be gone about a day anyway; but I'm curious; when I find time to drop in here, I wonder whether you'll have told me your reactions, and whether I guessed correctly about how you would react to this article.
I was reading this article ( https://www.theguardi... (show quote)


Your second paragraph is disingenuous. Lol

Reply
May 5, 2021 20:30:19   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
3507 wrote:
Of course population density is a factor that would make the virus impact worse.

Interestingly, _other_ factors also come into play (as you and others probably already know). (But _which_ factors make _how_much_ difference is harder to determine.) The most interesting country for this, to my mind, is Vietnam. It's a densely populated country. It's _right_next_to_ China which, we are convinced, is where the virus "originated". I happen to know someone in Vietnam, so I've heard a little about how things are there. There's a porous border between China and Vietnam; illegal immigrants from China often walk across the border into Vietnam. So ...

From those factors, I might have expected Vietnam to be one of the worst-hit countries in the pandemic. But it hasn't been.

(If it had been really severely hit and the government were just covering it up, my friend there would have noticed it and then I would notice it from talking with her.) (One can also check statistics online to corroborate that Vietnam has done relatively well in the pandemic. A government can only cover up so much, and then the world would start to notice the difference with the facts. (Well, and then there's North Korea which is probably successful at covering up a lot -- but Vietnam's not like North Korea -- Vietnam has a lot of contacts and mixing with other nations, so news from Vietnam would probably get out into the world, through the people and their international contacts.))

When Vietnam got ONE (1) case of Covid somewhere, the country as a whole was alarmed by it -- it was in the news all over the country. They're doing worse than that lately -- getting eleven (11) or, I suppose, maybe as many as 30 or 40 (thirty or forty) cases somewhere. My friend's city (I got the population wrong here, sorry; the city's population is about 300,000. I've been editing this post for the past several minutes but now I'll finally quit.), seems to have had very few cases; all the news about Covid cases have been coming from other parts of the country. Well, it's not over yet; we might have another year or two of this pandemic so Vietnam could still fail somewhere along the way during all that time.

Don't anyone take this the wrong way, but _some_ of the Vietnamese aren't even wearing masks and aren't practicing "social distancing". At the same time, other Vietnamese _are_ practicing all the recommended things like wearing masks and social distancing. So their population behavior is mixed, possibly somewhat like U.S. population behavior is mixed. Many of the Vietnamese do wear masks habitually. But I think that habit (pre-dating the pandemic) is mostly for when they go outside; they have to protect themselves from the polluted air (particularly during rush hour when a great many people are commuting by motorbikes or light motorcycles).

So why aren't they suffering a great many more cases of Covid? I can think of 3 or 4 reasons, although I don't really know. One thing is, the government does seem to care about the population's health, and does seem to notice every single Covid case that happens. So they're probably doing a good job of contact tracing. And I think they started early with that. Another thing is, the government there is probably more authoritarian than here, so they might have more obedience when there are lockdowns. On the other hand, most of the time there are not actual lockdowns and many (or "some"?) people are way too careless about precautions against the virus spreading.

Aside from a government that takes an interest in the population's health and in Covid cases, and contact tracing, and getting an early start in taking the pandemic seriously, and obedience from the people on the rare occasions when there are severe restrictions like a lockdown, I can think of another reason why they might be surviving the pandemic well: open windows. They don't use air conditioning as much as we do, but instead they tend to have more open windows; and I'm guessing that this helps to keep them from spreading Covid, which spreads more in enclosed spaces than in open spaces. The open windows would make more air circulation, thus helping to limit the spread of Covid.

And one more factor: remember those illegal immigrants walking from China to Vietnam? Well, China itself has probably been effective at contact tracing, getting an early start at taking the pandemic seriously, and lockdowns in some places like Wuhan (and maybe, at other times and places, getting people to wear masks and observe distancing rules). So all this together could be another reason why Covid isn't spreading much into Vietnam: because the people in China mostly don't have it either -- and this might include the illegal immigrants walking from China to Vietnam.
Of course population density is a factor that woul... (show quote)


The Vietnam-China border is on hardcore lockdown... The few idiots who have tried to cross are all serving time...

And they're not immigrants... Most go to Vietnam to gamble...

Vietnam had some pretty intense lockdown measures as well...

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