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Trump did not destroy America, but made it whole. The Future is now in our hands.
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Jan 11, 2021 02:18:20   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule for our debate. We must follow reason and not Emotion or Spirituality(Faith). And attack the subject manner not the poster. If you agree to this please post "agree to the Disclaimer" in your first reply.

We live in America. And living in America we take a great responsibility. Since a vast majority of us were born here, this is our home. And although we love peace among nations, we long for peace among our friends, neighbors, and in general, the general public.

The current state of the Union is poor. We are on the verge of civil war, with members from both sides accusing each other of sedition. But we all know how this argument goes:

"George Floyd was brutally murdered because he was black" reads a liberal paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd, but we need to defund the police," reads a liberal paper.
"Not all police are the guilty of murdering George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We will protest in the streets, on our cause. This was police brutality and the police must be held accountable. Defund the police." reads a liberal paper.
"Disbanding or defunding the police is ludicrous. Imagine if you needed the assistance of the police. There would be no one to help you." reads a conservative paper.
"We want justice for George Floyd and others. DEFUND the Police." reads a liberal paper.

Then in shock of both sides protesters take to the streets and destroy small businesses already hurting from the pandemic.

"The Conservatives are at fault for the damage done in our streets. We held a peaceful protest" reads a liberal paper, as in the back ground rioters are burning down a building. "Since when must protesters be nice, and non violent?" reads a liberal paper.

"In the background you can see rioters destroying the city, yet the Mayor does nothing. The rioters are insurgents." reads a conservative paper.
"The so called insurgents or rioters are nothing but peaceful protesters standing up for what they believe in. Let them speak. Listen to their concerns." reads a liberal paper.
"They are insurgents, call on the national guard to restore law and order" reads a conservative paper.
"Don't send in the guard, it is not needed. Tell your president we don't need federal law enforcement" reads a liberal paper.

and so on and so on.

Look this is how America saw the events play out on live TV, in the various liberal and conservative news broadcasts. So its alright to burn cities but not break into the capitol?

Let's look at this question logically: Rioters destroy small businesses in Wisconsin, Seattle and Portland as well as other American Cities. Rioters also stormed the Capitol. Who is to blame? This is how it played out:

"Donald Trump caused these incidents to occur. His lack of leadership lead to these problems we face on the streets" reads a liberal paper.

"Where were these mayors, and local law enforcement? Where is their leadership? They are letting their cities burn. Donald Trump offered his help in controlling the situation but was turned down. For weeks now the cities have been burning. When will the Mayors and Governors accept Donald Trump's help in quelling the disaster?" reads a conservative paper.

....Then after the Capitol got stormed because the rioters felt their voice was not being heard:

"Donald Trump incited a riot, he is the cause of this unrest! He must be impeached(again)" reads a liberal paper.

"Donald Trump told his supports to 'make their voices heard, in a peaceful march to the Capitol. He told them 'That it must be peaceful'" reads a conservative paper.

"He incited this riot. This is not a riot nor a protest this is insurgency" reads a liberal paper.

"What happened to a 'peaceful protest' I thought peaceful protestors are 'not always nice'" reports a conservative paper.

Now hold on folks, Rod Serling, Alfred Hitchcock, Orson Welles, and Stephen King would be proud.

They all warned us about these days. Hell, Rod Serling in the "Twilight Zone", Alfred Hitchcock, with "Secret Window", Orson Welles, in both "Animal Farm" and "1984", Stephen King, with "The Stand" described all the events of 2020, and they would be proud at how right they really were.

We are now living in a twisted episode of the Twilight Zone.

Yet, like a good politician, I have yet to answer the question: "What do we do about this?", and I haven't even mentioned the pandemic. Stephen King did a good story about pandemics, and there is even an episode in the Twilight Zone, a few of them.

But in each of these provocative fiction shows, (Twilight Zone, Animal Farm, 1984, etc.) the ending was uplifting. The writers of the past were amazing and made you think. Or did they......What have we learned?

If you are on the right and you seek to hold Antifa, and Black Lives, matter, be brought up on terrorist charges.......

If you are on the left, and you seek to hold Donald Trump responsible for the storming of the Capitol......

I say to both of you, in the words of William Shakespeare, "ALL is PUNISHED!"

Now why did I give that response?

"Because you are a Trump supporter and he is a traitor" says the liberal
"Because you are just another crazy nut case extremist" says the conservative.

No because I used reason. Those who rioted on the urging of democrat lawmakers, are just as guilty as those who rioted on the hint of urging of Donald J. Trump.

The solution is not more restriction. Look at it this way. You have a certain amount of explosive in a container. If you compress that can, therefore restricting it, what happens? BOOM! But if you unrestrain it, what happens? Nothing it remains inert.

Look at it like a parent scolding a child. Joe Biden and the Democrats would beat that child to a pulp. Hell, that child would be grounded for life, and then beat all to hell Wait, Ranger, that's what conservatives do. Or do they?

First of all there cannot be any unity of any sort if there is a double standard. So that is what takes the power away from the left or the right to admonish the other. There is no high moral ground to take, for the protesters themselves on the right and the left used up all moral ground. Sad but true. But there is an avenue of Justice, and that avenue of Justice is to hold everyone equally responsible to the act; or hold nobody accountable and chalk it up to the frustration of the American people.

My friends, neither I nor you have the answer to the question I posted. But maybe we can start a dialogue, to come to a conclusion, such that the innocent people of this country do not have to bleed for the sins of the guilty. This is an attempt to find wisdom and perhaps have our leaders read it.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 04:49:09   #
PeterS
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule for our debate. We must follow reason and not Emotion or Spirituality(Faith). And attack the subject manner not the poster. If you agree to this please post "agree to the Disclaimer" in your first reply.

We live in America. And living in America we take a great responsibility. Since a vast majority of us were born here, this is our home. And although we love peace among nations, we long for peace among our friends, neighbors, and in general, the general public.

The current state of the Union is poor. We are on the verge of civil war, with members from both sides accusing each other of sedition. But we all know how this argument goes:

"George Floyd was brutally murdered because he was black" reads a liberal paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd, but we need to defund the police," reads a liberal paper.
"Not all police are the guilty of murdering George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We will protest in the streets, on our cause. This was police brutality and the police must be held accountable. Defund the police." reads a liberal paper.
"Disbanding or defunding the police is ludicrous. Imagine if you needed the assistance of the police. There would be no one to help you." reads a conservative paper.
"We want justice for George Floyd and others. DEFUND the Police." reads a liberal paper.

Then in shock of both sides protesters take to the streets and destroy small businesses already hurting from the pandemic.

"The Conservatives are at fault for the damage done in our streets. We held a peaceful protest" reads a liberal paper, as in the back ground rioters are burning down a building. "Since when must protesters be nice, and non violent?" reads a liberal paper.

"In the background you can see rioters destroying the city, yet the Mayor does nothing. The rioters are insurgents." reads a conservative paper.
"The so called insurgents or rioters are nothing but peaceful protesters standing up for what they believe in. Let them speak. Listen to their concerns." reads a liberal paper.
"They are insurgents, call on the national guard to restore law and order" reads a conservative paper.
"Don't send in the guard, it is not needed. Tell your president we don't need federal law enforcement" reads a liberal paper.

and so on and so on.

Look this is how America saw the events play out on live TV, in the various liberal and conservative news broadcasts. So its alright to burn cities but not break into the capitol?

Let's look at this question logically: Rioters destroy small businesses in Wisconsin, Seattle and Portland as well as other American Cities. Rioters also stormed the Capitol. Who is to blame? This is how it played out:

"Donald Trump caused these incidents to occur. His lack of leadership lead to these problems we face on the streets" reads a liberal paper.

"Where were these mayors, and local law enforcement? Where is their leadership? They are letting their cities burn. Donald Trump offered his help in controlling the situation but was turned down. For weeks now the cities have been burning. When will the Mayors and Governors accept Donald Trump's help in quelling the disaster?" reads a conservative paper.

....Then after the Capitol got stormed because the rioters felt their voice was not being heard:

"Donald Trump incited a riot, he is the cause of this unrest! He must be impeached(again)" reads a liberal paper.

"Donald Trump told his supports to 'make their voices heard, in a peaceful march to the Capitol. He told them 'That it must be peaceful'" reads a conservative paper.

"He incited this riot. This is not a riot nor a protest this is insurgency" reads a liberal paper.

"What happened to a 'peaceful protest' I thought peaceful protestors are 'not always nice'" reports a conservative paper.

Now hold on folks, Rod Serling, Alfred Hitchcock, Orson Welles, and Stephen King would be proud.

They all warned us about these days. Hell, Rod Serling in the "Twilight Zone", Alfred Hitchcock, with "Secret Window", Orson Welles, in both "Animal Farm" and "1984", Stephen King, with "The Stand" described all the events of 2020, and they would be proud at how right they really were.

We are now living in a twisted episode of the Twilight Zone.

Yet, like a good politician, I have yet to answer the question: "What do we do about this?", and I haven't even mentioned the pandemic. Stephen King did a good story about pandemics, and there is even an episode in the Twilight Zone, a few of them.

But in each of these provocative fiction shows, (Twilight Zone, Animal Farm, 1984, etc.) the ending was uplifting. The writers of the past were amazing and made you think. Or did they......What have we learned?

If you are on the right and you seek to hold Antifa, and Black Lives, matter, be brought up on terrorist charges.......

If you are on the left, and you seek to hold Donald Trump responsible for the storming of the Capitol......

I say to both of you, in the words of William Shakespeare, "ALL is PUNISHED!"

Now why did I give that response?

"Because you are a Trump supporter and he is a traitor" says the liberal
"Because you are just another crazy nut case extremist" says the conservative.

No because I used reason. Those who rioted on the urging of democrat lawmakers, are just as guilty as those who rioted on the hint of urging of Donald J. Trump.

The solution is not more restriction. Look at it this way. You have a certain amount of explosive in a container. If you compress that can, therefore restricting it, what happens? BOOM! But if you unrestrain it, what happens? Nothing it remains inert.

Look at it like a parent scolding a child. Joe Biden and the Democrats would beat that child to a pulp. Hell, that child would be grounded for life, and then beat all to hell Wait, Ranger, that's what conservatives do. Or do they?

First of all there cannot be any unity of any sort if there is a double standard. So that is what takes the power away from the left or the right to admonish the other. There is no high moral ground to take, for the protesters themselves on the right and the left used up all moral ground. Sad but true. But there is an avenue of Justice, and that avenue of Justice is to hold everyone equally responsible to the act; or hold nobody accountable and chalk it up to the frustration of the American people.

My friends, neither I nor you have the answer to the question I posted. But maybe we can start a dialogue, to come to a conclusion, such that the innocent people of this country do not have to bleed for the sins of the guilty. This is an attempt to find wisdom and perhaps have our leaders read it.
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule f... (show quote)

There is a difference between a riot and an insurrection. Our Capitol has been sacked one time prior to January the 6th and that was when we were in a state of war with another county. This was an insurrection, not a riot, for the purpose of stopping the confirmation of Joe Biden for president. If you want to talk about your rights what right do you have to disenfranchise 81 million Americans simply because you lost the election?

I'm sorry if you didn't get as many votes as we did but you didn't--not in total, and not in the electoral college. On top of that, you were given the opportunity to prove fraud in over 60 courtrooms and you were unable to do so. Yet you still refused to accept defeat and have instead taken the position of your leader. Well, I can't help you there and you say Donald Trump has brought us together--well, only from your perspective because from where I stand this is the most divided we have ever been. You can't lie yourself into an election no matter how badly you wanted to win.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 05:02:03   #
Radiance3
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule for our debate. We must follow reason and not Emotion or Spirituality(Faith). And attack the subject manner not the poster. If you agree to this please post "agree to the Disclaimer" in your first reply.

We live in America. And living in America we take a great responsibility. Since a vast majority of us were born here, this is our home. And although we love peace among nations, we long for peace among our friends, neighbors, and in general, the general public.

The current state of the Union is poor. We are on the verge of civil war, with members from both sides accusing each other of sedition. But we all know how this argument goes:

"George Floyd was brutally murdered because he was black" reads a liberal paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd, but we need to defund the police," reads a liberal paper.
"Not all police are the guilty of murdering George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We will protest in the streets, on our cause. This was police brutality and the police must be held accountable. Defund the police." reads a liberal paper.
"Disbanding or defunding the police is ludicrous. Imagine if you needed the assistance of the police. There would be no one to help you." reads a conservative paper.
"We want justice for George Floyd and others. DEFUND the Police." reads a liberal paper.

Then in shock of both sides protesters take to the streets and destroy small businesses already hurting from the pandemic.

"The Conservatives are at fault for the damage done in our streets. We held a peaceful protest" reads a liberal paper, as in the back ground rioters are burning down a building. "Since when must protesters be nice, and non violent?" reads a liberal paper.

"In the background you can see rioters destroying the city, yet the Mayor does nothing. The rioters are insurgents." reads a conservative paper.
"The so called insurgents or rioters are nothing but peaceful protesters standing up for what they believe in. Let them speak. Listen to their concerns." reads a liberal paper.
"They are insurgents, call on the national guard to restore law and order" reads a conservative paper.
"Don't send in the guard, it is not needed. Tell your president we don't need federal law enforcement" reads a liberal paper.

and so on and so on.

Look this is how America saw the events play out on live TV, in the various liberal and conservative news broadcasts. So its alright to burn cities but not break into the capitol?

Let's look at this question logically: Rioters destroy small businesses in Wisconsin, Seattle and Portland as well as other American Cities. Rioters also stormed the Capitol. Who is to blame? This is how it played out:

"Donald Trump caused these incidents to occur. His lack of leadership lead to these problems we face on the streets" reads a liberal paper.

"Where were these mayors, and local law enforcement? Where is their leadership? They are letting their cities burn. Donald Trump offered his help in controlling the situation but was turned down. For weeks now the cities have been burning. When will the Mayors and Governors accept Donald Trump's help in quelling the disaster?" reads a conservative paper.

....Then after the Capitol got stormed because the rioters felt their voice was not being heard:

"Donald Trump incited a riot, he is the cause of this unrest! He must be impeached(again)" reads a liberal paper.

"Donald Trump told his supports to 'make their voices heard, in a peaceful march to the Capitol. He told them 'That it must be peaceful'" reads a conservative paper.

"He incited this riot. This is not a riot nor a protest this is insurgency" reads a liberal paper.

"What happened to a 'peaceful protest' I thought peaceful protestors are 'not always nice'" reports a conservative paper.

Now hold on folks, Rod Serling, Alfred Hitchcock, Orson Welles, and Stephen King would be proud.

They all warned us about these days. Hell, Rod Serling in the "Twilight Zone", Alfred Hitchcock, with "Secret Window", Orson Welles, in both "Animal Farm" and "1984", Stephen King, with "The Stand" described all the events of 2020, and they would be proud at how right they really were.

We are now living in a twisted episode of the Twilight Zone.

Yet, like a good politician, I have yet to answer the question: "What do we do about this?", and I haven't even mentioned the pandemic. Stephen King did a good story about pandemics, and there is even an episode in the Twilight Zone, a few of them.

But in each of these provocative fiction shows, (Twilight Zone, Animal Farm, 1984, etc.) the ending was uplifting. The writers of the past were amazing and made you think. Or did they......What have we learned?

If you are on the right and you seek to hold Antifa, and Black Lives, matter, be brought up on terrorist charges.......

If you are on the left, and you seek to hold Donald Trump responsible for the storming of the Capitol......

I say to both of you, in the words of William Shakespeare, "ALL is PUNISHED!"

Now why did I give that response?

"Because you are a Trump supporter and he is a traitor" says the liberal
"Because you are just another crazy nut case extremist" says the conservative.

No because I used reason. Those who rioted on the urging of democrat lawmakers, are just as guilty as those who rioted on the hint of urging of Donald J. Trump.

The solution is not more restriction. Look at it this way. You have a certain amount of explosive in a container. If you compress that can, therefore restricting it, what happens? BOOM! But if you unrestrain it, what happens? Nothing it remains inert.

Look at it like a parent scolding a child. Joe Biden and the Democrats would beat that child to a pulp. Hell, that child would be grounded for life, and then beat all to hell Wait, Ranger, that's what conservatives do. Or do they?

First of all there cannot be any unity of any sort if there is a double standard. So that is what takes the power away from the left or the right to admonish the other. There is no high moral ground to take, for the protesters themselves on the right and the left used up all moral ground. Sad but true. But there is an avenue of Justice, and that avenue of Justice is to hold everyone equally responsible to the act; or hold nobody accountable and chalk it up to the frustration of the American people.

My friends, neither I nor you have the answer to the question I posted. But maybe we can start a dialogue, to come to a conclusion, such that the innocent people of this country do not have to bleed for the sins of the guilty. This is an attempt to find wisdom and perhaps have our leaders read it.
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule f... (show quote)

=================
President Trump is the builder of the American Empire. From NYC to Florida.

Most of all he successfully restored the damages and destructions of the United States after the 8-years of Barack Obama.

| Reply
 
 
Jan 11, 2021 05:22:14   #
Ranger7374 Loc: Arizona, 40 miles from the border in the DMZ
 
PeterS wrote:
There is a difference between a riot and an insurrection. Our Capitol has been sacked one time prior to January the 6th and that was when we were in a state of war with another county. This was an insurrection, not a riot, for the purpose of stopping the confirmation of Joe Biden for president. If you want to talk about your rights what right do you have to disenfranchise 81 million Americans simply because you lost the election?

I'm sorry if you didn't get as many votes as we did but you didn't--not in total, and not in the electoral college. On top of that, you were given the opportunity to prove fraud in over 60 courtrooms and you were unable to do so. Yet you still refused to accept defeat and have instead taken the position of your leader. Well, I can't help you there and you say Donald Trump has brought us together--well, only from your perspective because from where I stand this is the most divided we have ever been. You can't lie yourself into an election no matter how badly you wanted to win.
There is a difference between a riot and an insurr... (show quote)


Now pete, right at this point in time, I can care less about who won the election. I'm more concerned that half of this nation will be demonized. That's my concern. Last time half the nation was demonized we fought a battle in Gettysburg Pennsylvania. How many souls were lost?

Do we really want to engage in more intolerance? Look I'm a math guy and the math doesn't add up. I work with mathematicians and they say there's a problem here. Now that is neither here nor there, the problem is this rioting issue.

If it was as you say it was, what was gained by the gesture? What was gained by breaking into Congress? What was the intent? Obviously they really didn't destroy anything. They occupied the building. But if that was insurrection then it was very weak and pointless. Honestly it.looked like tourists.

Even now I can join them and say Trump won but unlike them I am willing to hear the case. It must be fair!

But that is moot. When Americans are willing to fight against Americans over political nonsense and nether side will compromise then war is closer. Didn't Henry Clay make the Missouri compromise that gave us Kansas and Missouri but also lead us 40 years later to the civil war. When communication stops then bullets start.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 05:36:28   #
Ronald Hatt Loc: Lansing, Mich
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule for our debate. We must follow reason and not Emotion or Spirituality(Faith). And attack the subject manner not the poster. If you agree to this please post "agree to the Disclaimer" in your first reply.

We live in America. And living in America we take a great responsibility. Since a vast majority of us were born here, this is our home. And although we love peace among nations, we long for peace among our friends, neighbors, and in general, the general public.

The current state of the Union is poor. We are on the verge of civil war, with members from both sides accusing each other of sedition. But we all know how this argument goes:

"George Floyd was brutally murdered because he was black" reads a liberal paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd, but we need to defund the police," reads a liberal paper.
"Not all police are the guilty of murdering George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We will protest in the streets, on our cause. This was police brutality and the police must be held accountable. Defund the police." reads a liberal paper.
"Disbanding or defunding the police is ludicrous. Imagine if you needed the assistance of the police. There would be no one to help you." reads a conservative paper.
"We want justice for George Floyd and others. DEFUND the Police." reads a liberal paper.

Then in shock of both sides protesters take to the streets and destroy small businesses already hurting from the pandemic.

"The Conservatives are at fault for the damage done in our streets. We held a peaceful protest" reads a liberal paper, as in the back ground rioters are burning down a building. "Since when must protesters be nice, and non violent?" reads a liberal paper.

"In the background you can see rioters destroying the city, yet the Mayor does nothing. The rioters are insurgents." reads a conservative paper.
"The so called insurgents or rioters are nothing but peaceful protesters standing up for what they believe in. Let them speak. Listen to their concerns." reads a liberal paper.
"They are insurgents, call on the national guard to restore law and order" reads a conservative paper.
"Don't send in the guard, it is not needed. Tell your president we don't need federal law enforcement" reads a liberal paper.

and so on and so on.

Look this is how America saw the events play out on live TV, in the various liberal and conservative news broadcasts. So its alright to burn cities but not break into the capitol?

Let's look at this question logically: Rioters destroy small businesses in Wisconsin, Seattle and Portland as well as other American Cities. Rioters also stormed the Capitol. Who is to blame? This is how it played out:

"Donald Trump caused these incidents to occur. His lack of leadership lead to these problems we face on the streets" reads a liberal paper.

"Where were these mayors, and local law enforcement? Where is their leadership? They are letting their cities burn. Donald Trump offered his help in controlling the situation but was turned down. For weeks now the cities have been burning. When will the Mayors and Governors accept Donald Trump's help in quelling the disaster?" reads a conservative paper.

....Then after the Capitol got stormed because the rioters felt their voice was not being heard:

"Donald Trump incited a riot, he is the cause of this unrest! He must be impeached(again)" reads a liberal paper.

"Donald Trump told his supports to 'make their voices heard, in a peaceful march to the Capitol. He told them 'That it must be peaceful'" reads a conservative paper.

"He incited this riot. This is not a riot nor a protest this is insurgency" reads a liberal paper.

"What happened to a 'peaceful protest' I thought peaceful protestors are 'not always nice'" reports a conservative paper.

Now hold on folks, Rod Serling, Alfred Hitchcock, Orson Welles, and Stephen King would be proud.

They all warned us about these days. Hell, Rod Serling in the "Twilight Zone", Alfred Hitchcock, with "Secret Window", Orson Welles, in both "Animal Farm" and "1984", Stephen King, with "The Stand" described all the events of 2020, and they would be proud at how right they really were.

We are now living in a twisted episode of the Twilight Zone.

Yet, like a good politician, I have yet to answer the question: "What do we do about this?", and I haven't even mentioned the pandemic. Stephen King did a good story about pandemics, and there is even an episode in the Twilight Zone, a few of them.

But in each of these provocative fiction shows, (Twilight Zone, Animal Farm, 1984, etc.) the ending was uplifting. The writers of the past were amazing and made you think. Or did they......What have we learned?

If you are on the right and you seek to hold Antifa, and Black Lives, matter, be brought up on terrorist charges.......

If you are on the left, and you seek to hold Donald Trump responsible for the storming of the Capitol......

I say to both of you, in the words of William Shakespeare, "ALL is PUNISHED!"

Now why did I give that response?

"Because you are a Trump supporter and he is a traitor" says the liberal
"Because you are just another crazy nut case extremist" says the conservative.

No because I used reason. Those who rioted on the urging of democrat lawmakers, are just as guilty as those who rioted on the hint of urging of Donald J. Trump.

The solution is not more restriction. Look at it this way. You have a certain amount of explosive in a container. If you compress that can, therefore restricting it, what happens? BOOM! But if you unrestrain it, what happens? Nothing it remains inert.

Look at it like a parent scolding a child. Joe Biden and the Democrats would beat that child to a pulp. Hell, that child would be grounded for life, and then beat all to hell Wait, Ranger, that's what conservatives do. Or do they?

First of all there cannot be any unity of any sort if there is a double standard. So that is what takes the power away from the left or the right to admonish the other. There is no high moral ground to take, for the protesters themselves on the right and the left used up all moral ground. Sad but true. But there is an avenue of Justice, and that avenue of Justice is to hold everyone equally responsible to the act; or hold nobody accountable and chalk it up to the frustration of the American people.

My friends, neither I nor you have the answer to the question I posted. But maybe we can start a dialogue, to come to a conclusion, such that the innocent people of this country do not have to bleed for the sins of the guilty. This is an attempt to find wisdom and perhaps have our leaders read it.
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule f... (show quote)


The "understanding", of all of this lies in the "TRUTH"...Of all these "issues"!

What is "your" understanding of the truth?

Truth is based on "fact"! Truth, is the essence of actual events leading up to the Preposition!

What 'You, or "I" think about all this is elementary, & besides the actual "truth/facts", of these events!

America has a Constitution, based on Laws, passed & accepted by the populace...hence our culture, & society!


It is up to "MAN", { courts, legislative bodies, senate, etc. } to determine "cause & effect"!

Refer to our forefathers, for essence, logic, intent of these issues, & results thereof.

If, there is any credibility of our "rules of conduct, as a people, & Government.....One must deduce that the present Democrat institution is "extremely corrupt", as ruled & governed by the present leadership of the Demoncrat party!

Who is to pass judgment on the behavior of Nancy Pelosi? Is "She" impeachable?

Most certainly, Pelosi is the Leader of this corrupt, & evil party, { Democrats} & is ultimately responsible for her unacceptable behavior, as it relates to her Prescribed duties as a legislator!

Define evil: The total acceptance & promotion of the Abortion issue! This issue is to be subject to the basis of our Constitution, acceptance of heinous murder of innocent human babies.....{ Our Constitution based on Judeo/Christian principles}....{ for, if that is not true....What are our rules of behavior "based on"? }

Democrats, "Obviously" have accepted 2 completely different rules of conduct, & punishment for misconduct in our lives! Is this what our forefathers intended?

Is it "IMPORTANT", as to exactly what our forefathers intended for our society?

*YOU BE THE JUDGE!..............


| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 05:36:57   #
debeda
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule for our debate. We must follow reason and not Emotion or Spirituality(Faith). And attack the subject manner not the poster. If you agree to this please post "agree to the Disclaimer" in your first reply.

We live in America. And living in America we take a great responsibility. Since a vast majority of us were born here, this is our home. And although we love peace among nations, we long for peace among our friends, neighbors, and in general, the general public.

The current state of the Union is poor. We are on the verge of civil war, with members from both sides accusing each other of sedition. But we all know how this argument goes:

"George Floyd was brutally murdered because he was black" reads a liberal paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd, but we need to defund the police," reads a liberal paper.
"Not all police are the guilty of murdering George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We will protest in the streets, on our cause. This was police brutality and the police must be held accountable. Defund the police." reads a liberal paper.
"Disbanding or defunding the police is ludicrous. Imagine if you needed the assistance of the police. There would be no one to help you." reads a conservative paper.
"We want justice for George Floyd and others. DEFUND the Police." reads a liberal paper.

Then in shock of both sides protesters take to the streets and destroy small businesses already hurting from the pandemic.

"The Conservatives are at fault for the damage done in our streets. We held a peaceful protest" reads a liberal paper, as in the back ground rioters are burning down a building. "Since when must protesters be nice, and non violent?" reads a liberal paper.

"In the background you can see rioters destroying the city, yet the Mayor does nothing. The rioters are insurgents." reads a conservative paper.
"The so called insurgents or rioters are nothing but peaceful protesters standing up for what they believe in. Let them speak. Listen to their concerns." reads a liberal paper.
"They are insurgents, call on the national guard to restore law and order" reads a conservative paper.
"Don't send in the guard, it is not needed. Tell your president we don't need federal law enforcement" reads a liberal paper.

and so on and so on.

Look this is how America saw the events play out on live TV, in the various liberal and conservative news broadcasts. So its alright to burn cities but not break into the capitol?

Let's look at this question logically: Rioters destroy small businesses in Wisconsin, Seattle and Portland as well as other American Cities. Rioters also stormed the Capitol. Who is to blame? This is how it played out:

"Donald Trump caused these incidents to occur. His lack of leadership lead to these problems we face on the streets" reads a liberal paper.

"Where were these mayors, and local law enforcement? Where is their leadership? They are letting their cities burn. Donald Trump offered his help in controlling the situation but was turned down. For weeks now the cities have been burning. When will the Mayors and Governors accept Donald Trump's help in quelling the disaster?" reads a conservative paper.

....Then after the Capitol got stormed because the rioters felt their voice was not being heard:

"Donald Trump incited a riot, he is the cause of this unrest! He must be impeached(again)" reads a liberal paper.

"Donald Trump told his supports to 'make their voices heard, in a peaceful march to the Capitol. He told them 'That it must be peaceful'" reads a conservative paper.

"He incited this riot. This is not a riot nor a protest this is insurgency" reads a liberal paper.

"What happened to a 'peaceful protest' I thought peaceful protestors are 'not always nice'" reports a conservative paper.

Now hold on folks, Rod Serling, Alfred Hitchcock, Orson Welles, and Stephen King would be proud.

They all warned us about these days. Hell, Rod Serling in the "Twilight Zone", Alfred Hitchcock, with "Secret Window", Orson Welles, in both "Animal Farm" and "1984", Stephen King, with "The Stand" described all the events of 2020, and they would be proud at how right they really were.

We are now living in a twisted episode of the Twilight Zone.

Yet, like a good politician, I have yet to answer the question: "What do we do about this?", and I haven't even mentioned the pandemic. Stephen King did a good story about pandemics, and there is even an episode in the Twilight Zone, a few of them.

But in each of these provocative fiction shows, (Twilight Zone, Animal Farm, 1984, etc.) the ending was uplifting. The writers of the past were amazing and made you think. Or did they......What have we learned?

If you are on the right and you seek to hold Antifa, and Black Lives, matter, be brought up on terrorist charges.......

If you are on the left, and you seek to hold Donald Trump responsible for the storming of the Capitol......

I say to both of you, in the words of William Shakespeare, "ALL is PUNISHED!"

Now why did I give that response?

"Because you are a Trump supporter and he is a traitor" says the liberal
"Because you are just another crazy nut case extremist" says the conservative.

No because I used reason. Those who rioted on the urging of democrat lawmakers, are just as guilty as those who rioted on the hint of urging of Donald J. Trump.

The solution is not more restriction. Look at it this way. You have a certain amount of explosive in a container. If you compress that can, therefore restricting it, what happens? BOOM! But if you unrestrain it, what happens? Nothing it remains inert.

Look at it like a parent scolding a child. Joe Biden and the Democrats would beat that child to a pulp. Hell, that child would be grounded for life, and then beat all to hell Wait, Ranger, that's what conservatives do. Or do they?

First of all there cannot be any unity of any sort if there is a double standard. So that is what takes the power away from the left or the right to admonish the other. There is no high moral ground to take, for the protesters themselves on the right and the left used up all moral ground. Sad but true. But there is an avenue of Justice, and that avenue of Justice is to hold everyone equally responsible to the act; or hold nobody accountable and chalk it up to the frustration of the American people.

My friends, neither I nor you have the answer to the question I posted. But maybe we can start a dialogue, to come to a conclusion, such that the innocent people of this country do not have to bleed for the sins of the guilty. This is an attempt to find wisdom and perhaps have our leaders read it.
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule f... (show quote)


Well thought out piece, Ranger, and good questions! Either the law is applied equally, in measure to the offense, or not at all.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 05:48:13   #
debeda
 
PeterS wrote:
There is a difference between a riot and an insurrection. Our Capitol has been sacked one time prior to January the 6th and that was when we were in a state of war with another county. This was an insurrection, not a riot, for the purpose of stopping the confirmation of Joe Biden for president. If you want to talk about your rights what right do you have to disenfranchise 81 million Americans simply because you lost the election?

I'm sorry if you didn't get as many votes as we did but you didn't--not in total, and not in the electoral college. On top of that, you were given the opportunity to prove fraud in over 60 courtrooms and you were unable to do so. Yet you still refused to accept defeat and have instead taken the position of your leader. Well, I can't help you there and you say Donald Trump has brought us together--well, only from your perspective because from where I stand this is the most divided we have ever been. You can't lie yourself into an election no matter how badly you wanted to win.
There is a difference between a riot and an insurr... (show quote)


As I keep saying, IF this were an insurrection that was perpetrated by the million plus conservatives in DC on January 6th, the government would now be negotiating for peace, and the return of control of federal buildings from said millionmplus insurrectionists. This Insurrection narrative has no logic. It also does not apply the law equally. The current narrative says that leftist protesters can riot, loot, burn, and assault private citizens, and beat, bloody and blind police officers with impunity. The same narrative says that at the whisper of a threat to Congress, with some unwelcome observers (.0001% of the people attending the demonstration) THAT constitutes an Insurrection. So one incident, in one place, participated in by .0001% of the demonstration participants equals Insurrection, but countrywide violence lasting for months, arson, looting and more, participated in by AT LEAST 75% of the demonstration participants in many places, is mostly peaceful protest is absurd in the extreme. The arrogance and ignorance of those pushing said narrative, as well as the gullibility of those buying it, defies logic.

| Reply
 
 
Jan 11, 2021 05:51:10   #
debeda
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Now pete, right at this point in time, I can care less about who won the election. I'm more concerned that half of this nation will be demonized. That's my concern. Last time half the nation was demonized we fought a battle in Gettysburg Pennsylvania. How many souls were lost?

Do we really want to engage in more intolerance? Look I'm a math guy and the math doesn't add up. I work with mathematicians and they say there's a problem here. Now that is neither here nor there, the problem is this rioting issue.

If it was as you say it was, what was gained by the gesture? What was gained by breaking into Congress? What was the intent? Obviously they really didn't destroy anything. They occupied the building. But if that was insurrection then it was very weak and pointless. Honestly it.looked like tourists.

Even now I can join them and say Trump won but unlike them I am willing to hear the case. It must be fair!

But that is moot. When Americans are willing to fight against Americans over political nonsense and nether side will compromise then war is closer. Didn't Henry Clay make the Missouri compromise that gave us Kansas and Missouri but also lead us 40 years later to the civil war. When communication stops then bullets start.
Now pete, right at this point in time, I can care ... (show quote)


TRUTH!

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 05:52:00   #
debeda
 
Ronald Hatt wrote:
The "understanding", of all of this lies in the "TRUTH"...Of all these "issues"!

What is "your" understanding of the truth?

Truth is based on "fact"! Truth, is the essence of actual events leading up to the Preposition!

What 'You, or "I" think about all this is elementary, & besides the actual "truth/facts", of these events!

America has a Constitution, based on Laws, passed & accepted by the populace...hence our culture, & society!


It is up to "MAN", { courts, legislative bodies, senate, etc. } to determine "cause & effect"!

Refer to our forefathers, for essence, logic, intent of these issues, & results thereof.

If, there is any credibility of our "rules of conduct, as a people, & Government.....One must deduce that the present Democrat institution is "extremely corrupt", as ruled & governed by the present leadership of the Demoncrat party!

Who is to pass judgment on the behavior of Nancy Pelosi? Is "She" impeachable?

Most certainly, Pelosi is the Leader of this corrupt, & evil party, { Democrats} & is ultimately responsible for her unacceptable behavior, as it relates to her Prescribed duties as a legislator!

Define evil: The total acceptance & promotion of the Abortion issue! This issue is to be subject to the basis of our Constitution, acceptance of heinous murder of innocent human babies.....{ Our Constitution based on Judeo/Christian principles}....{ for, if that is not true....What are our rules of behavior "based on"? }

Democrats, "Obviously" have accepted 2 completely different rules of conduct, & punishment for misconduct in our lives! Is this what our forefathers intended?

Is it "IMPORTANT", as to exactly what our forefathers intended for our society?

*YOU BE THE JUDGE!..............

The "understanding", of all of this lies... (show quote)


Good points and well saidđź‘Ť

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 05:52:32   #
Carol Kelly
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule for our debate. We must follow reason and not Emotion or Spirituality(Faith). And attack the subject manner not the poster. If you agree to this please post "agree to the Disclaimer" in your first reply.

We live in America. And living in America we take a great responsibility. Since a vast majority of us were born here, this is our home. And although we love peace among nations, we long for peace among our friends, neighbors, and in general, the general public.

The current state of the Union is poor. We are on the verge of civil war, with members from both sides accusing each other of sedition. But we all know how this argument goes:

"George Floyd was brutally murdered because he was black" reads a liberal paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We condemn the brutal murder of George Floyd, but we need to defund the police," reads a liberal paper.
"Not all police are the guilty of murdering George Floyd" reads a conservative paper.
"We will protest in the streets, on our cause. This was police brutality and the police must be held accountable. Defund the police." reads a liberal paper.
"Disbanding or defunding the police is ludicrous. Imagine if you needed the assistance of the police. There would be no one to help you." reads a conservative paper.
"We want justice for George Floyd and others. DEFUND the Police." reads a liberal paper.

Then in shock of both sides protesters take to the streets and destroy small businesses already hurting from the pandemic.

"The Conservatives are at fault for the damage done in our streets. We held a peaceful protest" reads a liberal paper, as in the back ground rioters are burning down a building. "Since when must protesters be nice, and non violent?" reads a liberal paper.

"In the background you can see rioters destroying the city, yet the Mayor does nothing. The rioters are insurgents." reads a conservative paper.
"The so called insurgents or rioters are nothing but peaceful protesters standing up for what they believe in. Let them speak. Listen to their concerns." reads a liberal paper.
"They are insurgents, call on the national guard to restore law and order" reads a conservative paper.
"Don't send in the guard, it is not needed. Tell your president we don't need federal law enforcement" reads a liberal paper.

and so on and so on.

Look this is how America saw the events play out on live TV, in the various liberal and conservative news broadcasts. So its alright to burn cities but not break into the capitol?

Let's look at this question logically: Rioters destroy small businesses in Wisconsin, Seattle and Portland as well as other American Cities. Rioters also stormed the Capitol. Who is to blame? This is how it played out:

"Donald Trump caused these incidents to occur. His lack of leadership lead to these problems we face on the streets" reads a liberal paper.

"Where were these mayors, and local law enforcement? Where is their leadership? They are letting their cities burn. Donald Trump offered his help in controlling the situation but was turned down. For weeks now the cities have been burning. When will the Mayors and Governors accept Donald Trump's help in quelling the disaster?" reads a conservative paper.

....Then after the Capitol got stormed because the rioters felt their voice was not being heard:

"Donald Trump incited a riot, he is the cause of this unrest! He must be impeached(again)" reads a liberal paper.

"Donald Trump told his supports to 'make their voices heard, in a peaceful march to the Capitol. He told them 'That it must be peaceful'" reads a conservative paper.

"He incited this riot. This is not a riot nor a protest this is insurgency" reads a liberal paper.

"What happened to a 'peaceful protest' I thought peaceful protestors are 'not always nice'" reports a conservative paper.

Now hold on folks, Rod Serling, Alfred Hitchcock, Orson Welles, and Stephen King would be proud.

They all warned us about these days. Hell, Rod Serling in the "Twilight Zone", Alfred Hitchcock, with "Secret Window", Orson Welles, in both "Animal Farm" and "1984", Stephen King, with "The Stand" described all the events of 2020, and they would be proud at how right they really were.

We are now living in a twisted episode of the Twilight Zone.

Yet, like a good politician, I have yet to answer the question: "What do we do about this?", and I haven't even mentioned the pandemic. Stephen King did a good story about pandemics, and there is even an episode in the Twilight Zone, a few of them.

But in each of these provocative fiction shows, (Twilight Zone, Animal Farm, 1984, etc.) the ending was uplifting. The writers of the past were amazing and made you think. Or did they......What have we learned?

If you are on the right and you seek to hold Antifa, and Black Lives, matter, be brought up on terrorist charges.......

If you are on the left, and you seek to hold Donald Trump responsible for the storming of the Capitol......

I say to both of you, in the words of William Shakespeare, "ALL is PUNISHED!"

Now why did I give that response?

"Because you are a Trump supporter and he is a traitor" says the liberal
"Because you are just another crazy nut case extremist" says the conservative.

No because I used reason. Those who rioted on the urging of democrat lawmakers, are just as guilty as those who rioted on the hint of urging of Donald J. Trump.

The solution is not more restriction. Look at it this way. You have a certain amount of explosive in a container. If you compress that can, therefore restricting it, what happens? BOOM! But if you unrestrain it, what happens? Nothing it remains inert.

Look at it like a parent scolding a child. Joe Biden and the Democrats would beat that child to a pulp. Hell, that child would be grounded for life, and then beat all to hell Wait, Ranger, that's what conservatives do. Or do they?

First of all there cannot be any unity of any sort if there is a double standard. So that is what takes the power away from the left or the right to admonish the other. There is no high moral ground to take, for the protesters themselves on the right and the left used up all moral ground. Sad but true. But there is an avenue of Justice, and that avenue of Justice is to hold everyone equally responsible to the act; or hold nobody accountable and chalk it up to the frustration of the American people.

My friends, neither I nor you have the answer to the question I posted. But maybe we can start a dialogue, to come to a conclusion, such that the innocent people of this country do not have to bleed for the sins of the guilty. This is an attempt to find wisdom and perhaps have our leaders read it.
Disclaimer: Before I begin, let me set this rule f... (show quote)


After swearing no more news, we turned on Newsmax last night and found a most amazing show. The Trump Show, Trump made America fun again. He has a most delightful sense of humor and has had since he was a young man on David Letterman’s show. We laughed along with them and suddenly felt better but, strangely just a little more loss. It has been so refreshing to have a leader with a sense of humor,and a sense of pride in our country. He gave us renewed hope and now it’s lost. I hope none of the people on here going for Trump’s jugular make their nasty remarks.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 05:54:46   #
debeda
 
Carol Kelly wrote:
After swearing no more news, we turned on Newsmax last night and found a most amazing show. The Trump Show, Trump made America fun again. He has a most delightful sense of humor and has had since he was a young man on David Letterman’s show. We laughed along with them and suddenly felt better but, strangely just a little more loss. It has been so refreshing to have a leader with a sense of humor,and a sense of pride in our country. He gave us renewed hope and now it’s lost. I hope none of the people on here going for Trump’s jugular make their nasty remarks.
After swearing no more news, we turned on Newsmax ... (show quote)


Yes, a leader willing to put America and Americans first. An incredibly refreshing change from what we've endured for at least the past 30 years!!!

| Reply
 
 
Jan 11, 2021 05:56:58   #
Carol Kelly
 
debeda wrote:
Yes, a leader willing to put America and Americans first. An incredibly refreshing change from what we've endured for at least the past 30 years!!!


Good morning, can’t sleep? Nor can I!

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 05:58:44   #
debeda
 
Carol Kelly wrote:
Good morning, can’t sleep? Nor can I!


Nope, I can't. And I have to work at 9am. Oh boy🤯

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 06:07:08   #
Carol Kelly
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
Now pete, right at this point in time, I can care less about who won the election. I'm more concerned that half of this nation will be demonized. That's my concern. Last time half the nation was demonized we fought a battle in Gettysburg Pennsylvania. How many souls were lost?

Do we really want to engage in more intolerance? Look I'm a math guy and the math doesn't add up. I work with mathematicians and they say there's a problem here. Now that is neither here nor there, the problem is this rioting issue.

If it was as you say it was, what was gained by the gesture? What was gained by breaking into Congress? What was the intent? Obviously they really didn't destroy anything. They occupied the building. But if that was insurrection then it was very weak and pointless. Honestly it.looked like tourists.

Even now I can join them and say Trump won but unlike them I am willing to hear the case. It must be fair!

But that is moot. When Americans are willing to fight against Americans over political nonsense and nether side will compromise then war is closer. Didn't Henry Clay make the Missouri compromise that gave us Kansas and Missouri but also lead us 40 years later to the civil war. When communication stops then bullets start.
Now pete, right at this point in time, I can care ... (show quote)


Sorry this is not political nonsense. This is the loss of freedoms never to be retrieved in my lifetime. I am sorely disappointed.

| Reply
Jan 11, 2021 06:11:16   #
debeda
 
Carol Kelly wrote:
Sorry this is not political nonsense. This is the loss of freedoms never to be retrieved in my lifetime. I am sorely disappointed.



| Reply
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