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Oct 17, 2020 08:55:13   #
TexaCan Loc: Heart in W Texas - feet on the beach in Al.
 
Abbie Hoffman wrote:
Very few ob/gyns rarely perform late term abortions. In most cases, the fetus has already died, or the fetus has a condition that is incompatible with life. More often than not, the woman has been pregnant, setting up a nursery, nesting in her life to prepare for her new baby. She doesn't want to abort, but the baby will not live.

PP doesn't notify parents of underage children seeking an abortion because if the young woman could trust her parents not to be abusive, she would tell them herself. It's not an easy thing to go through for a teenager. In some cases, the teenager is pregnant because her mother's boyfriend impregnated her. Her mother knows, but doesn't care, as long as she is getting what she wants from the guy.

I wish I could describe how horrible anti-choice propaganda can be. I did family planning clinic defense when I was in college. One anti-choice man shook his baby in my face, until the baby was dead. Someone else put a dead fetus in a box, and showed it off to couples entering a family planning clinic. Possession of a deceased fetus for the purpose of arguing a political position is, of course, illegal.
Very few ob/gyns rarely perform late term abortion... (show quote)


Who was this man that murdered a baby in your face! Who put the dead body in a box! It’s possible that you googled this, you do utilize the service quite often, however, I need proof of these allegations! These are actual crimes and will have a record!

I believe that you have once again gone overboard with your Drama!

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Oct 17, 2020 09:02:00   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
SGM B wrote:
I saw something the other day that said "An abortion doesn't keep you from being a mother, just makes you the mother if a dead baby". Sounds about right.


And I believe ;

Every baby born is a message from God he is not yet discouraged with mankind.

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Oct 17, 2020 09:19:37   #
TexaCan Loc: Heart in W Texas - feet on the beach in Al.
 
PulletSurprise wrote:
One of the most common messages you hear from the abortion industry is that moms who have an abortion don’t regret their decision.

The abortion industry releases biased studies, deceptive statements, and misleading statistics to push the idea that having an abortion is really no big deal. In fact, Planned Parenthood – the largest abortion provider in the U.S. – goes as far as claiming on their website that most parents are relieved about their abortion.

But as you know, abortion regret isn’t a myth. Abortion regret is REAL.

We hear stories in our Health Care Centers of moms who felt pressured to abort. Moms who believed they had no other option or nowhere else to turn. Moms who thought they would have no support. And couples who followed bad advice and wish they could turn back the clocks.

Then, we hear the fallout of the decisions. We hear stories of moms who struggle with grief and regret for decades. Couples who have broken relationships. Families who will never be the same. All because of abortion.

One way we honor some of the one million children lost to abortion every single year is through the website, abortionmemorial.com. On this website, moms, dads, grandparents, and other family members are invited to share their stories, thoughts, and prayers to remember children who never had a chance at life outside the womb.

Here’s just one of the stories posted recently by an anonymous author:

My Beautiful Baby,
I miss you with ALL of my heart. It has been 29 years and the sadness and regret of not giving you life never goes away. I am SO sorry for my decision. I regret it daily and I miss you deeply daily. I know that you are at peace with the Lord.
You have a brother here, I know he also would have loved you very much.
I acknowledge the personhood, soul, and dignity of this [preborn] child.
With Deep Love,
Mommy
One of the most common messages you hear from the ... (show quote)


This morning I heard a lady’s story on Fox about when she was 16 and was forced to have an abortion. She had been made a Ward of Steven Tyler the rock star. When she was 16 she got pregnant by him and he forced her to have an abortion at 5 months. She told of how scared she was at 16 and that he told her if she didn’t that he would kick her out, so she had the abortion! She was completely devastated! She now is an active advocate for pro-life. I can’t imagine what she went through! I sincerely hope and pray for all those women or girls, that had abortions and later realized they made a tragic mistake. There is healing for these ladies through the power of faith in Jesus Christ. He can do all things when we turn them over to him!

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Oct 17, 2020 11:19:36   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
TexaCan wrote:
This morning I heard a lady’s story on Fox about when she was 16 and was forced to have an abortion. She had been made a Ward of Steven Tyler the rock star. When she was 16 she got pregnant by him and he forced her to have an abortion at 5 months. She told of how scared she was at 16 and that he told her if she didn’t that he would kick her out, so she had the abortion! She was completely devastated! She now is an active advocate for pro-life. I can’t imagine what she went through! I sincerely hope and pray for all those women or girls, that had abortions and later realized they made a tragic mistake. There is healing for these ladies through the power of faith in Jesus Christ. He can do all things when we turn them over to him!
This morning I heard a lady’s story on Fox about w... (show quote)


We know that, but many people don't. And we have to be witnesses to a world going to hell. We make all the difference. We shine the light that defeats the darkness. Give power back to the states. That was how it worked in the beginning. Time to return to the foundations we were built on. Plus were nicer neighbors.

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Oct 17, 2020 11:45:48   #
MeadowFields
 
When it comes to bearing children there is a dichotomy of responsibility. The father just plants the seed but the mother takes on the greater burden of carrying and nourishing the infant child to term and bonds internally with her newborn. Where is that equal? The mother who takes on the far greater responsibility for giving life to her newborn is the rightful person to make the decision of whether or not to abort.

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Oct 17, 2020 13:07:15   #
jwrevagent
 
Abbie Hoffman wrote:
******************************************************
No one wants abortion used as birth control, but that is a moot point anyway. I have never met any pregnant woman who didn't agonize over her options. She may have a lot of competing options, but sometimes none of those options are good.

Let me emphasize that *incompatible with life* is a diagnosis of a failure of gestation, the infant cannot live outside of the womb. Quality of life is a whole other thing.

Thirty three years ago, my sister went into labor when she was between 5 - 6 months pregnant. She was in her mid-30's, married, living on a farm in a rural area, and so excited to be having her first child... And then, far too early, she went into labor, her water broke, and my niece was delivered in a Flight For Life helicopter. She weighed little more than a pound. No one was certain that the Peanut would survive.

Peanut lived although she had the birth injury of Cerebral Palsy. She is profoundly disabled, and spent most of a year in NICU and PICU. My sister couldn't breastfeed her little girl. My sister didn't sit back waiting for her baby to come home. She learned how to do all the things she would have to do for the Peanut.

My niece, who has been in state programs since she was born has cost the State millions of dollars, and she is still in the custody of the State. My sister is in her 60's, and too broken to take care of her daughter, although she cared for her Peanut for most of her life. Peanut is a sweet 33 year old woman who cannot talk, eat, taste ice cream, change herself, comb or brush her own hair, or get married and have her own children. Instead, Peanut's life revolves around nurses, doctors, occupational therapy, group activities that she can't participate in... it's heartbreaking, but no one would have her any other way. She has these amazing blue eyes and black curly hair (like mine), and her smile lights up the night sky.

I will be waiting for someone who *knows* scripture and the right verse to pass judgment on my sister, and probably my family, too.

There are no easy answers, but no one has a right to judge anyone. No one but my sister has walked in her shoes. If there is one thing to take from all of this, is that an abortion is NEVER easy thing to consider. I don't understand why anti-choicers think they have a right to judge the intimate and personal decision about a woman's life. What my sister went through is no one's business but hers.
**************************************************... (show quote)


I am an anti cnoicer but I do not judge those who are not. I have not walked in their shoes, and it is always a tragedy when a human life is lost, be it by intentional murder, abortion for whatever reason, accident, or suicide. Hard choices always, but sometimes the choice is made too soon-especially a life changing choice with many people living with the change, such as abortion. While it is a personal matter, it also effects others, no matter the reason for the abortion. It effects the father, it effects the child, and the mother, as well as friends and relatives of all those people. The effect is wide spread, considering that the aborted baby may have been the one to later find a cure for cancer-a far fetched idea to some, but possible, or discovered some amazing new planet or galaxy-we just do not know. It is pointless to speculate on what might be or have been, I realize that. But while it is basically the choice of the mother, there may be many more people effected by the decision. This does not take the responsibility for the decision from the mother, but this issue has more wide spread consequences than we first realize.

I am not sure that no one wants abortion as a birth control method. Sounds to me as though PP thinks it is OK to use it that way-or they would allow the woman to see an ultrasound, would counsel her about her options to make sure she really wanted this procedure or needed it for whatever reason. But it seems as though it is a kind of a ho-hum attitude of those that perform and those who assist in it. I may be completely wrong about that, since I have no personal experience with abortion, but I have never heard of any abortionist who encouraged the woman to think about it, review her options, or see what the procedure actually entails, nor warned of the possibility of psychological side effects or encouraged to get help should that occur. So I cannot call it a "woman's health" issue because of the sometimes callous way it is handled.

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Oct 17, 2020 14:02:50   #
Abbie Hoffman Loc: World Wanderer
 
jwrevagent wrote:
I am an anti cnoicer but I do not judge those who are not. I have not walked in their shoes, and it is always a tragedy when a human life is lost, be it by intentional murder, abortion for whatever reason, accident, or suicide. Hard choices always, but sometimes the choice is made too soon-especially a life changing choice with many people living with the change, such as abortion. While it is a personal matter, it also effects others, no matter the reason for the abortion. It effects the father, it effects the child, and the mother, as well as friends and relatives of all those people. The effect is wide spread, considering that the aborted baby may have been the one to later find a cure for cancer-a far fetched idea to some, but possible, or discovered some amazing new planet or galaxy-we just do not know. It is pointless to speculate on what might be or have been, I realize that. But while it is basically the choice of the mother, there may be many more people effected by the decision. This does not take the responsibility for the decision from the mother, but this issue has more wide spread consequences than we first realize.

I am not sure that no one wants abortion as a birth control method. Sounds to me as though PP thinks it is OK to use it that way-or they would allow the woman to see an ultrasound, would counsel her about her options to make sure she really wanted this procedure or needed it for whatever reason. But it seems as though it is a kind of a ho-hum attitude of those that perform and those who assist in it. I may be completely wrong about that, since I have no personal experience with abortion, but I have never heard of any abortionist who encouraged the woman to think about it, review her options, or see what the procedure actually entails, nor warned of the possibility of psychological side effects or encouraged to get help should that occur. So I cannot call it a "woman's health" issue because of the sometimes callous way it is handled.
I am an anti cnoicer but I do not judge those who ... (show quote)


Planned Parenthood does counsel women before they provide health care.

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Oct 17, 2020 14:16:41   #
Abbie Hoffman Loc: World Wanderer
 
TexaCan wrote:
Who was this man that murdered a baby in your face! Who put the dead body in a box! It’s possible that you googled this, you do utilize the service quite often, however, I need proof of these allegations! These are actual crimes and will have a record!

I believe that you have once again gone overboard with your Drama!


Are you suggesting that I had something to do with the rapid exit of miamifrank?

I'm under no obligation to give you details of my home town, or the places I've been, or things I have done. Why would I tell you anything?





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Oct 17, 2020 15:01:25   #
MeadowFields
 
jwrevagent wrote:
I am an anti cnoicer but I do not judge those who are not. I have not walked in their shoes, and it is always a tragedy when a human life is lost, be it by intentional murder, abortion for whatever reason, accident, or suicide. Hard choices always, but sometimes the choice is made too soon-especially a life changing choice with many people living with the change, such as abortion. While it is a personal matter, it also effects others, no matter the reason for the abortion. It effects the father, it effects the child, and the mother, as well as friends and relatives of all those people. The effect is wide spread, considering that the aborted baby may have been the one to later find a cure for cancer-a far fetched idea to some, but possible, or discovered some amazing new planet or galaxy-we just do not know. It is pointless to speculate on what might be or have been, I realize that. But while it is basically the choice of the mother, there may be many more people effected by the decision. This does not take the responsibility for the decision from the mother, but this issue has more wide spread consequences than we first realize.

I am not sure that no one wants abortion as a birth control method. Sounds to me as though PP thinks it is OK to use it that way-or they would allow the woman to see an ultrasound, would counsel her about her options to make sure she really wanted this procedure or needed it for whatever reason. But it seems as though it is a kind of a ho-hum attitude of those that perform and those who assist in it. I may be completely wrong about that, since I have no personal experience with abortion, but I have never heard of any abortionist who encouraged the woman to think about it, review her options, or see what the procedure actually entails, nor warned of the possibility of psychological side effects or encouraged to get help should that occur. So I cannot call it a "woman's health" issue because of the sometimes callous way it is handled.
I am an anti cnoicer but I do not judge those who ... (show quote)


Your personal thoughts on abortion are sound and reasoned. You have come to the conclusion that abortion is wrongful and a woman should not have a choice. I can respect your opinion about the sanctity of life and how precious each life is or can be. However, the reality of human life on our planet is not one of bliss and pleasure, but of struggle and pain and suffering for many of us. If we are fortunate enough to be born to loving and responsible parents who allow us to reach our full potential, then we beat the odds. For many of us life is lived in quiet desperation or even servitude. I see life as a kind of test that can either teach us how to behave lovingly or deceitfully based on our core beliefs. The world is always in constant need of repair because humans have still not learned how to live in harmony with natural laws. We are the dominant species
inhabiting this world and since our arrival on the scene, human behavior has been a mixed bag of hatred, wars and bloodshed, but also sacrifice, love and compassion toward the downtrodden. Human life requires far more resources to survive than any of the other species who share this planet with us. Are we stressing the planet's bounty by our ever increasing numbers and is there some limit before the earth, in order to survive, derives a plan to diminish our numbers before we destroy the balance of nature and destroy this world?
Bringing another human life into this world is a profound challenge that should cause us pause and reflection.
Anyone who has raised children know that we are born with our own personalities and talents and that parents are really just caregivers who permit the offspring to develop into his/her own individual personality.
In the grand scheme of things human life (which is just a blip in time when compared to the lifeline of the universe) may just flower and die like other species before us. Perhaps this human experiment may just pass
on giving way to some other form of life better suited to the earth's environment.

| Reply
Oct 17, 2020 16:06:57   #
jwrevagent
 
MeadowFields wrote:
Your personal thoughts on abortion are sound and reasoned. You have come to the conclusion that abortion is wrongful and a woman should not have a choice. I can respect your opinion about the sanctity of life and how precious each life is or can be. However, the reality of human life on our planet is not one of bliss and pleasure, but of struggle and pain and suffering for many of us. If we are fortunate enough to be born to loving and responsible parents who allow us to reach our full potential, then we beat the odds. For many of us life is lived in quiet desperation or even servitude. I see life as a kind of test that can either teach us how to behave lovingly or deceitfully based on our core beliefs. The world is always in constant need of repair because humans have still not learned how to live in harmony with natural laws. We are the dominant species
inhabiting this world and since our arrival on the scene, human behavior has been a mixed bag of hatred, wars and bloodshed, but also sacrifice, love and compassion toward the downtrodden. Human life requires far more resources to survive than any of the other species who share this planet with us. Are we stressing the planet's bounty by our ever increasing numbers and is there some limit before the earth, in order to survive, derives a plan to diminish our numbers before we destroy the balance of nature and destroy this world?
Bringing another human life into this world is a profound challenge that should cause us pause and reflection.
Anyone who has raised children know that we are born with our own personalities and talents and that parents are really just caregivers who permit the offspring to develop into his/her own individual personality.
In the grand scheme of things human life (which is just a blip in time when compared to the lifeline of the universe) may just flower and die like other species before us. Perhaps this human experiment may just pass
on giving way to some other form of life better suited to the earth's environment.
Your personal thoughts on abortion are sound and r... (show quote)


I think we come from widely diverging viewpoints on the value and sanctity of all life-I am a young earth Creation believer, as well as a Christian. I do not view animals as I do humans, nor the earth as some sort of nearly divine being. It is fallen, and degraded from what it first was, when God saw that it was "very good". Then Adam and Eve took matters into their own hands, and death came into the world, and it has been deteriorating ever since, along with the human condition. And that is where we are now. I do not think it is simplistic to say that there are some things that are absolutely wrong, all the time, and some things that are always right-whether I always know which is which is debatable, but there is absolute truth, and there are immutable laws-some things are simply wrong, and everyone knows it, though they may try to deny it and they may even succeed. Killing a human being is wrong-whether it is an act of war, a homicide, a suicide, or what. In an act of war, the responsibility lies with the government that demanded it-in a homicide, it lies with the person who actually did the killing-a suicide is obvious as to responsibility. But all of those things can be forgiven-not overlooked, but forgiven, and it is not up to me to determine who is and who is not forgiven. Thus, instead of acting to make abortion illegal, I would prefer to make it unnecessary-that would take care of it without a lot of legislation that cannot be enforced anyway. A goal, I suppose, that will probably never actually be met, but worth working toward in spite of that.

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Oct 17, 2020 16:10:49   #
jwrevagent
 
Abbie Hoffman wrote:
Planned Parenthood does counsel women before they provide health care.


I did not know that-never heard anyone say they did any counseling as to options for the woman. If true, I am happy to know that. Thank you. People I know who have had abortions-and there are not very many of them, just to be honest here, stated they received no counseling about adoption or any other ways to handle things. If I am wrong, I am quite happy to know that.

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Oct 17, 2020 18:00:37   #
MeadowFields
 
jwrevagent wrote:
I think we come from widely diverging viewpoints on the value and sanctity of all life-I am a young earth Creation believer, as well as a Christian. I do not view animals as I do humans, nor the earth as some sort of nearly divine being. It is fallen, and degraded from what it first was, when God saw that it was "very good". Then Adam and Eve took matters into their own hands, and death came into the world, and it has been deteriorating ever since, along with the human condition. And that is where we are now. I do not think it is simplistic to say that there are some things that are absolutely wrong, all the time, and some things that are always right-whether I always know which is which is debatable, but there is absolute truth, and there are immutable laws-some things are simply wrong, and everyone knows it, though they may try to deny it and they may even succeed. Killing a human being is wrong-whether it is an act of war, a homicide, a suicide, or what. In an act of war, the responsibility lies with the government that demanded it-in a homicide, it lies with the person who actually did the killing-a suicide is obvious as to responsibility. But all of those things can be forgiven-not overlooked, but forgiven, and it is not up to me to determine who is and who is not forgiven. Thus, instead of acting to make abortion illegal, I would prefer to make it unnecessary-that would take care of it without a lot of legislation that cannot be enforced anyway. A goal, I suppose, that will probably never actually be met, but worth working toward in spite of that.
I think we come from widely diverging viewpoints o... (show quote)


It sounds as though you are still struggling with your beliefs and are not certain of the ways of human behavior. You mention that you are young and an earth creation believer which would put the age of the world at somewhere about 6,000 years old. If you believe in science then the world has been around for at least 4 billion years. You are idealistic in your youth and want all pain and suffering to come to an end and people should treat other as the teachings of our fathers concluded, "Love your neighbor as yourself." Those are ideals worth working toward, but having the advantage of age and experience over you I seriously doubt that will come to pass any time soon. Humans are here on earth to praise the glory of our creator and to follow in his pathways. Our lives do not come to an end after we die. Our spirit and soul go on to other worlds. How we approach the Lord is multi faceted, but I must believe in a loving and benevolent creator who truly wants us to share in the bounty He has provided for us. All that you can do is try your utmost to live a life of dignity and respect and to help others in need and to leave a legacy of love and compassion for others to emulate.

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Oct 17, 2020 18:21:31   #
Abbie Hoffman Loc: World Wanderer
 
jwrevagent wrote:
I did not know that-never heard anyone say they did any counseling as to options for the woman. If true, I am happy to know that. Thank you. People I know who have had abortions-and there are not very many of them, just to be honest here, stated they received no counseling about adoption or any other ways to handle things. If I am wrong, I am quite happy to know that.


Planned Parenthood gets a bad time, but very few people can get past the abortion thing. But, like all controversial things, PP has its share of bad press.

Margaret Sanger, the founder of PP, was instrumental in the Eugenics Crusade, but PP was not alone. The beginning years of PP were dark, to be sure, but they have changed their priorities and focus. The best place to get the truth about PP is at their website:

https://www.plannedparenthood.org

I once heard someone say that if abortion is the biggest mortal sin a woman can do, then perhaps those who judge her should clean up their own morality before judging someone else.



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Oct 17, 2020 21:55:52   #
TexaCan Loc: Heart in W Texas - feet on the beach in Al.
 
Peewee wrote:
We know that, but many people don't. And we have to be witnesses to a world going to hell. We make all the difference. We shine the light that defeats the darkness. Give power back to the states. That was how it worked in the beginning. Time to return to the foundations we were built on. Plus were nicer neighbors.


Absolutely! We are the witnesses that are to spread the Gospel of the Good News! That is what we are told to do! 👍👍👍👍👍

We are also to vote the Bible! That means to NOT vote for the Democrats!

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Oct 17, 2020 22:31:20   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
TexaCan wrote:
Absolutely! We are the witnesses that are to spread the Gospel of the Good News! That is what we are told to do! 👍👍👍👍👍

We are also to vote the Bible! That means to NOT vote for the Democrats!


I agree. I know most on OPP may never change but I hope when they're in a tight spot they remember something we said and call on the only one who can save them.
If not maybe POTUS can change their hearts when they see the positive things he achieves in his 2nd term.

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