whitnebrat:
I personally have no problem with sporting rifles and revolvers for self-defense, but having four AK-47's, two Glock semi-auto 9 mils, and a rocket launcher in your basement without your being 'well regulated' is somewhat of a stretch.(end quote)

And here is where you went totally off the rails - I am "well regulated" (trained) and it's actually less than none of your business how many AK-47s or Glock semi-auto 9 mils I have, or Kimber 1911 .45s, or AR-15s or any other weapon I happen to own. Your comment about "the rocket launcher in your basement" I believe is beyond stupid, and I believe you know it. I don't know anyone who has, or wants a "rocket launcher in their basement" and I believe you don't mind embellishing to make a point. Your point is well taken, you do not actually believe anyone should have a semi-automatic weapon you don't approve of, but fortunately you at least approve of "sporting rifles and revolvers for self-defense". Sorry, no one appointed you in charge of interpreting the Second Amendment for me, or anyone else.
I can see you are a passionate individual, now you know I'm also a passionate individual - passionate about my Second Amendment rights. It would be nice if you actually knew what "weapons of war" actually are. For your edification, most average citizens do not have, and can not get, a real weapon of war. The AK-47s and AR-15s available for sale to civilians are in no way "weapons of war" and anyone who would carry one of these to war is not only a fool, but a complete i***t.
SGM B out

If you read the Second Amendment, the full clause reads "A well regulated M*****a, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Note the part about a "well-regulated m*****a". At the time, every male citizen was the army, and they drilled in the town square every weekend. They were a 'well-regulated m*****a'. They had officers, and knew what the limits on their conduct were. In the aftermath of the Civil War, a standing army was instituted, but the amendment still held, even though there were no longer town and state m*****as, per se. The National Guard eventually took their place. What has been lost is the fact that the intent was to regulate the holding of firearms that have become mass casualty enablers to some kind of control.
I personally have no problem with sporting rifles and revolvers for self-defense, but having four AK-47's, two Glock semi-auto 9 mils, and a rocket launcher in your basement without your being 'well regulated' is somewhat of a stretch. If you happen to go off the rails and use these weapons to destroy large numbers of people, there's something wrong with the system. No, I'm not advocating that "they're coming to take your guns away". But I do not believe that weapons of war should be available to the general public.

I've taken up too much space already, except to say that much of the rest of the post is exaggeration in my opinion. But these points that I have rebutted stand on their own merits.

As always, your mileage may vary.

Sir, I found your post to be very well thought out, clear and sincere, and reasonable, even though I disagree with a point or two. i will just address one of them: the second amendment. Your reading of it is defective. Let me t***slate what it says: Folks, a organized armed citizenry is absolutely necessary to the health and security of any free nation, THEREFORE, under no circumstances will a federal, state, county, or city government, or anyone else, keep you from owning or carrying weapons without due process. Now what that MEANS is this: you folks, our descendants, must remember that NO government can be trusted. So, each and every one of you will have the right to keep and bear arms so that ANY lowlife, bureaucratic, governmental wannabe power grabber, individual or group or party, had best remember that there are as many weapons out there, or more, than there are citizens. Am I really SURE I want to tick them off too much? THAT is what the second amendment is all about. Not hunting. Not self defense. Our FREEDOM's defense from our own government.

Sir, I found your post to be very well thought out, clear and sincere, and reasonable, even though I disagree with a point or two. i will just address one of them: the second amendment. Your reading of it is defective. Let me t***slate what it says: Folks, a organized armed citizenry is absolutely necessary to the health and security of any free nation, THEREFORE, under no circumstances will a federal, state, county, or city government, or anyone else, keep you from owning or carrying weapons without due process. Now what that MEANS is this: you folks, our descendants, must remember that NO government can be trusted. So, each and every one of you will have the right to keep and bear arms so that ANY lowlife, bureaucratic, governmental wannabe power grabber, individual or group or party, had best remember that there are as many weapons out there, or more, than there are citizens. Am I really SURE I want to tick them off too much? THAT is what the second amendment is all about. Not hunting. Not self defense. Our FREEDOM's defense from our own government.

I appreciate your passion and for recognizing mine. I take it that you feel that any ex-military type should be able to own semi-autos.
~~~Yes, I do feel that any ex-military type should be able to own semi-auto pistols and rifles, and not knowing your prior military status, I believe you should also be able to own semi-auto pistols and rifles regardless of your prior military status. If you are not comfortable owning semi weaponry, by all means don't buy any. ;)
The only folks out there who should be concerned about me are the folks who would use violence to impose their will on me or mine - or on you, if you happen to be in my area.

I think you would not go off the rails unless Altzheimers sets in or something like that, so you're not who I'm worried about.

~~~My wife will keep from going off the rails, and my weapons will go to my kids and grandkids if need be - oh, except for my 9mm Glock and my .38 Smith.

I have a friend that is a Range Safety Officer at the local gun range, and they have the opinion that 90% of the people shooting AR's and AK's there shouldn't be allowed weapons of any kind. All they do is shoot off about $50 of ammo in five minutes and high-five each other.

~~~My local public range here is manned by retired state troopers and game wardens. There are a few hard fast rules that will get you kicked off the range, one is firing more than 1 round in 1.5 seconds. That eliminates burning up a bunch of ammo rapid fire and high-fives. If anyone gets kicked off the range, it is for 15 days the first time, 45 days the second. I think a shooter can be banned for life for unsafe acts.

And the other area that I worry about is these self-styled m*****a types that lean towards the white nationalist venue. They play at war on weekends and if a calamity happened, what their actions might be is questionable ... to wit, the seventeen-year-old in Kenosha that shot those people with a semi-auto that he legally wasn't supposed to have, let alone play vigilante with.

~~~The 17 year old is Kyle Rittenhouse and I wonder how you arrived at he legally wasn't supposed to have it. Have you given any consideration that he might have been exercising his right to self-defense? The thug (read his rap sheet) with the 9mm Glock who made the statement "he should have emptied his magazine" into Rittenhouse, you know the one - he had his arm nearly blew off, was a convicted felon - seems he was also a child molester, but I can't remember for sure. Are you okay with this thug, convicted felon having a fire arm? Convicted felons are forbidden from buying or owning a gun of any type. Hmmm, how/where did he get it?

This is where my idea of "well-regulated" comes into play. These kinds of occurrences should not happen, just as police brutality should not happen.

~~~I agree, police brutality is a horrible thing, terrible that a man or woman who has so much entrusted to them, abuses that trust. Police union be damned - these "officers" deserve nothing less than arrested, charged and prosecuted. But, and its a huge but - the vast majority of law enforcement officers are wonderful people, trying to do a thankless job, for not near enough money. Are there a few bad apples, hell yes - are the unions prone to protecting these scum bag officers, most likely and that is part of the problem. However some of these people act like they don't have to respect the authority of the police. When that attitude rears its ugly head - you know what in talking about - an officer can't let the perp walk, or run away. The officer usually has no idea why the person is running, but must be stopped to determine why.

And, yes, maybe a rocket launcher in the basement is a little over the top, but I knew someone that owned an ex-Coast Guard Cutter that still had its forward deck gun in place. All that was needed was ammo for it. Also, there are a few ex-mils around who have WW2 tanks in operating condition (theoretically de-milled) , but I have my doubts on that. I don't worry much about them, I'm just pointing out that there are people around with "weapons of war" that have supposedly been deactivated, especially those secretive m*****a types that I keep hearing about.

~~~I have heard of some folks with "de-miltarized" war machines. Usually WWII tanks, trucks, 1/4 ton utility vehicles (Jeeps). The problem with the tanks, etc. is getting munitions for the main gun.
Anyway, thanks for hearing me out. We may not be as far apart politically as one might think...v**e Trump 2020! 😂😂😎😎👍👍

Thanks for your reply.

If you are a liberal who can’t stand Trump, and cannot possibly fathom why conservatives or anyone would ever v**e for him let me finally fill you in.
It’s not that we love Donald Trump so much. It’s that we can’t stand you. And we will do wh**ever it takes — even if that means electing a rude obnoxious unpredictable narcissist (your words not ours) to the office of President of the United States — because the only thing we find more dangerous to this nation than Donald Trump is you.
How is that possible you might ask? Well, you have done everything in your power to destroy our country. From tearing down the police to tearing down our history, to tearing down our borders. From systematically destroying our schools and brainwashing our kids into believing socialism is the answer to anything (despite being an unmitigated failure everywhere) while demonizing religion and faith, and glorifying a******n, violence, and thug culture.
From calling us r****ts every time we expect everyone of any skin color to follow our laws equally, to telling us that our “tolerance” of lifestyles we don’t agree with isn’t nearly enough — no we must “celebrate” any lifestyle choice or g****r option (forget science) you throw in our direction or you think it’s fine to calls us h********c or some other degrading slur you decide is okay to call us — ironically all while lecturing us on h**e speech. While you gaslight us about 52 g****rs, polyamory, grown men in dresses sharing public locker rooms with little girls, and normalize the sexualization of young children, you simultaneously ridicule us for having the audacity to wish someone a “Merry Christmas” or hang a f**g on the 4th of July, stand for the national anthem, or (horror of horrors) don a MAGA hat in public. So much for your “tolerance.” (See why we think you are just hypocrites??)
We’re also not interested in the fact that you think you can unilaterally decide that 250 years of the right-to-bear-arms against a tyrannical or ineffective government should be abolished because you can’t get the violence in the cities you manage under control. That free-speech should be tossed out the window, and that those who disagree with your opinions are fair game for public harassment or doxing, That spoiled children with nose-rings and tats who still live off their parent’s dime should be allowed to destroy cities and peoples livelihoods without repercussions. That chaos, and lawlessness, and disrespect for authority should be the norm. This is your agenda. And you wonder why we find you more dangerous than Donald Trump?
Your narrative is a constant drone of oppressor/oppressed race-baiting intended to divide the country in as many ways as you possibly can. You love to sell “victim-hood” to people of color every chance you get because it’s such an easy sell compared to actually teaching people to stand on their own two feet and take personal responsibility for their own lives and their own communities and their own futures. But you won’t do that, you will never do that, because then you will lose control over people of color. They might actually start thinking for themselves, God forbid!
This is why we will v**e for Donald Trump. Not because he is the most charming character on the block. Not because he is the most polite politician to have ever graced the oval office. Not because he is the most palatable choice, or because we love his moral character or because the man never lies, but because we are sick to death of you and all of the destructive crap you are doing to this once beautiful and relatively safe country. Your ineffective and completely dysfunctional liberal “leadership”(?) has literally destroyed our most beautiful cities, our public education system, and done its damnedest to rip faith out of people’s lives.
However bad Donald Trump may be, and he is far from perfect, every day we look at you and feel that no matter what Donald Trump says or does there is no possible way he could be any worse for our country than you people are.
We are sick to death of your stupid, destructive, ignorant, and intolerant behavior and beliefs — parading as “wokeness.” We are beyond s**k of your hypocrisy and B.S.
We are fed up with your disrespectful d******eness and constant unrelenting harping and whining and complaining (while you live in the most privileged nation in the world), while making literally zero contributions of anything positive to our society. Your entire focus is on ripping things down, never ever building anything up. Think about that as there is something fundamentally very wrong in the psychology of people who choose destruction as their primary modus operandi.
If Donald J Trump is reelected, don’t blame us, look in the mirror, and blame yourselves. Because you are the ones that are responsible for the rise of Donald Trump. You are the ones who have created this monster that you so despise. Now get back into your cry closet!