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So, where is America going? It is not looking good at all!
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Sep 20, 2020 20:21:03   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
permafrost wrote:
Alas Bebida... another idea pushed by trump turns out to be wrong..

This is to long to post all of it.. so only part.. still long and painful for you , but medicine is good for you. Follow the link and read it all..

https://www.businessinsider.com/what-happened-to-american-jobs-in-the-80s-2017-7

The problem didn't start in the 1990s, it started in the 1980s, when Ronald Reagan — a hero of the Trump administration — was president, and neoliberal economics were first making their mark on policy. Reagan and his ilk distrusted government and believed that the private sector could make the best decisions when left on its own. You've heard about this — it's called laissez faire economics.

This ideology ultimately led to the financialization of the US corporation — the process of putting shareholders first, often at the expense of workers and consumers — and its emergence as an actor that takes resources from the economy rather than creating them. This, combined with a government zeal for lowering taxes rather than spending, means no one — not the government, and not the private sector — is investing enough in America to keep the economy strong across social classes.

In short: Government cuts and changes in how corporations operate mean American workers are getting screwed by their own government and their own employers.

But I'm jumping ahead — let's go back to the Reagan era. That was also the time Japanese manufacturers had developed a superior management style to their American rivals and, frankly, started eating our lunch.

Instead of keeping a wall between management and workers, Japanese manufacturers adopted “organizational integration,” which put technical specialists and shop-floor workers together. The result was better products made faster in Japan, and jobs lost permanently in the United States.

"From 1980 to 1985 employment in the US economy increased from 104.5 million to 107.2 million workers, or by 2.6 percent. But employment of operators, fabricators, and laborers fell from 20.0 million to 16.8 million, a decline of 15.9 percent (US Department of Commerce 1983, 416; and 1986, 386)."

All of this was happening amid a wave of deregulation in the US.

For example, in 1982 he made it legal for companies to repurchase their shares on the open market pretty much whenever they wanted. Previously, the SEC had considered this a form of stock price manipulation.

Employees lost their status.

Reagan's mission was to cut the budget — which meant not spending money investing in the future of these workers. In the decades after this process started, manufacturing workers would find their numbers diminishing as corporations sought ways to please shareholders, and the government sought ways to lower taxes and deregulate the private sector.

No one had their backs.

When corporations borrow money, one would think that money would go into investment in the firm. But according to the Roosevelt Institute, a left-leaning Washington think tank, since the 1980s, companies have invested less than 10 cents of each borrowed dollar. They've put far more effort into buying back stock which, thanks to the way executive compensation works, makes the C-suite richer and richer.

The world didn't take America's jobs, America let the world have them without investing in a path to new ones because politicians were more interested in tax cuts, and corporate America was more interested in short term gains.

That's the part of this sad story you won't hear from the Trump administration.
Alas Bebida... another idea pushed by trump turns ... (show quote)


Great article.
I am positive when the light gets into their little pork skulls they’ll either be mad or begging to be accepted as Democrats.

Reply
Sep 20, 2020 20:27:30   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
Bebida wrote:
EXACTLY!!! PLUS the FACT that they MANDATORILY, collect money from each worker to donate to whichever POLITICAL PARTY delivers the most FAVORS!! And THAT is in ADDITION to their Union Dues!! NO matter WHO the worker wants the money to go to!!


If you mean by “jacking up wages”
That they have seen the corporate books and have negotiated better wages and benefits in line with what the Corporation is Making in Profit.
Then they donate to candidates that share Your interest as a working person?
Is this a bad thing or just too complex for you to comprehend?
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?
Or is that still a thing?

Reply
Sep 20, 2020 20:29:48   #
debeda
 
Milosia2 wrote:
If you mean by “jacking up wages”
That they have seen the corporate books and have negotiated better wages and benefits in line with what the Corporation is Making in Profit.
Then they donate to candidates that share Your interest as a working person?
Is this a bad thing or just too complex for you to comprehend?
Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness?
Or is that still a thing?


Trade unions work for "corporations"? Hmmm..... do you work? Or anyone you know work?

Reply
 
 
Sep 20, 2020 20:30:59   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
Capt-jack wrote:
For some reason, you can not follow! It's not that America did not use a better system, it's that America could not use a better system, every move was blocked by unions. Look at there work, at GMC before they filed bankruptcy they had to pay $25.00 to people to sweep the floors. I suppose you think that is just fine.
That is why companies moved to other countries, all in an effort to get away from unions, pure fact.


That’s incorrect!

Reply
Sep 20, 2020 20:37:01   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
Capt-jack wrote:
Just to help out the blind, CORPORATIONS are a mass of people, that bought with money a part of the building, wiring, lighting, land and build something...cars...planes... computers, etc. The idea is to make some money.
Yes, I know you think that is a bad thing.

I grow tired of teaching you, you seem to have a learning problem.


They are Shareholders collecting profits.
That’s all!
They don’t care how or where it comes from as long as they get it.
Shareholders are different from STAKEHOLDERS Whereby the workers have genuine vital interests in seeing the corporations succeed.
Shareholders- only profit!
Many corporations have stock options where employees can purchase stocks but
Rich investors get A better deal.!

Reply
Sep 20, 2020 20:52:57   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
Capt-jack wrote:
You say """ But I'm jumping ahead — let's go back to the Reagan era. That was also the time Japanese manufacturers had developed a superior management style to their American rivals and, frankly, started eating our lunch. '''

What you don't know= a lot! The Japanese system was taught to them by an American economist.
He went there to prove his system because he could not do it here in America because of UNIONS and the c****e left. Since you went to a government school they would never teach you that, so now you know why
you are so uninformed.
You say """ But I'm jumping ahead —... (show quote)


The Japanese had an edge on manufacturing that no country could Keep up with.
The Japanese Government gave out free non committed loans to anyone who would manufacture anything in Japan. No cost loans that don’t need to be paid back is substantial edge in manufacturing!
So they started manufacturing things. Electronics went to Japan because no one. could compete with their prices. Once that ball starts rolling it’s hard to stop. China same thing. They manufacture our stuff with our money. Of which they now have warehouses filled with greenbacks, And then we buy it from them. A win win for China. Japan had a lot of hard starts that went bust.
But it never mattered their government just gave them all the money they needed and it never had to be paid back.
Japanese cars come to mind. They had a real hard time starting out. But when they figured it out they had to shut down the Toyota facilities because they were Too efficient!!! Yes. Too Efficient !!

Reply
Sep 20, 2020 20:57:48   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
permafrost wrote:
Bit of a cretin aren't you.. gravity set to high today??

the answer was very clear in my post. the greatest reason was that corporations did not use money for investment but rather for stock buy back. An act enabled by a law passed under Reagan..

No investment equals business gone.. farm out the production as cheap as can be, sell at high price to existing US customers.. now maybe drying up, but the same buy back s**m used with the trump gift made many of the rich even richer. check things out,, all you do is make remarks..

If you had ever worked for an hourly wage, you would know the need for Unions and your h**e for them would be seen as self distructive...

The world didn't take America's jobs, America let the world have them without investing in a path to new ones because politicians were more interested in tax cuts, and corporate America was more interested in short term gains.
Bit of a cretin aren't you.. gravity set to high t... (show quote)




Lol gravity set too high!
You know that went right past them!

Reply
 
 
Sep 20, 2020 23:36:56   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
debeda wrote:
And abolished unions how?


Are you , the one with all the answers, asking Me?

Reply
Sep 21, 2020 01:00:37   #
debeda
 
Milosia2 wrote:
Are you , the one with all the answers, asking Me?


As I thought. You've got no answers, just mud balls to sling

Reply
Sep 21, 2020 01:30:07   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
Milosia2 wrote:
Are you , the one with all the answers, asking Me?


Reagan let all the union protections for workers lapse.
The laws that controlled how unions were treated in the workplace were changed.
Corporations were no longer required to
Allow union activity on their premises.
Outlawed , you might say.
Right to work for less became the only option.
No unions, just work for less.

Reply
Sep 21, 2020 01:32:12   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
debeda wrote:
Trade unions work for "corporations"? Hmmm..... do you work? Or anyone you know work?


What’s your point?

Reply
 
 
Sep 21, 2020 01:35:51   #
Milosia2 Loc: Cleveland Ohio
 
debeda wrote:
Trade unions work for "corporations"? Hmmm..... do you work? Or anyone you know work?


Trade unions work for the members of the union.
The members work for the corporations!
How old are you?
Did you ever learn anything about unions in school?

Reply
Sep 21, 2020 02:36:39   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Milosia2 wrote:
Now since Reagan abolished unions,
We as Americans
In the Greatest
Country on Earth
Are Circling the drain and holding on for dear life.
Thanks Ronnie and every other Ahole who ever agreed with him !!
And today refuse to say NO to Donnie!!!
╭∩╮(-_-)╭∩╮

NYT Archive: The Reagan Boom - Greatest Ever

Almost everyone knows that the greatest depression the U.S. ever had was in the 1930's. It was known as the Great Depression, and its infamy merits a separate section in economics textbooks. But what was its counterpart? When did our greatest economic expansion occur?

We just had it. And it is still expanding, setting new records with each passing month.

We don't know whether historians will call it the Great Expansion of the 1980's or Reagan's Great Expansion, but we do know from official economic statistics that the seven year period from 1982 to 1989 was the greatest, consistent burst of economic activity ever seen in the U.S. In fact, it was the greatest economic expansion the world has ever seen - in any country, at any time.

The two key measures that mark a depression or expansion are jobs and production. Let's look at the records that were set. Creation of jobs. From November 1982, when President Ronald Reagan's new economic program was beginning to take effect, to November 1989, 18.7 million new jobs were created. It was a world record: Never before had so many jobs been created during a comparable time period. The new jobs covered the entire spectrum of work, and more than half of them paid more than $20,000 a year. As total employment grew to 119.5 million, the rate of unemployment fell to slightly over 5 percent, the lowest level in 15 years. Creation of wealth.

The amount of wealth produced during this seven year period was stupendous - some $30 trillion worth of goods and services. Again, it was a world record. Never before had so much wealth been produced during a comparable period. According to a recent study, net asset values - including stocks, bonds and real estate - went up by more than $5 trillion between 1982 and 1989, an increase of roughly 50 percent.

There are other important measures. Steady economic growth. As we begin the decade of the 1990's, we are in our 86th straight month of economic growth - a new record for peacetime, five months longer than the wartime growth of World War II and only 23 months short of the wartime record set during the Vietnam War in the 1960's. Most experts now predict that it will last right through 1990, and perhaps beyond.

Income tax rates, interest rates and inflation.

Under President Reagan, top personal income tax rates were lowered dramatically, from 70 percent to 28 percent. This policy change was the prime force behind the record breaking economic expansion. Interest rates and inflation also fell sharply and, so far, have stayed comfortably low - a further indication of the power and pervasiveness of Mr. Reagan's economic policies. The stock market. Perhaps the key indicator of an economy's booms and busts is the stock market, the bottom line economic report card. And here the record has been striking. During the period from 1970 to 1982, the stock market barely moved. The Standard & Poor's index of 500 stocks inched up about 35 percent during that entire period. But starting in late 1982, just as Reaganomics began to work, the stock market took off like a giant skyrocket. Since then, the Standard & Poor's index has soared, reaching a record high of 360, almost triple what it was in 1982.

There were other consequences of the expansion. Annual Federal spending on public housing and welfare, and on Social Security, Medicare and health all increased by billions of dollars. The poverty rate has fallen steadily since 1983.

When you add up the record of the Reagan years, and the first year of President Bush - during which he has faithfully continued Mr. Reagan's economic policies - the conclusion is clear, inescapable and stunning. We have just witnessed America's Great Expansion.

The Reagan economic expansion was not perfect and we will never have one that is. The Federal budget deficits were too high and still are, too many Federal regulations lay unreformed and the trade deficit is worrisome.

In fact, the Reagan expansion may not have been the best economic expansion in history, for every economic expansion must be judged by many criteria. But if we look at the sheer size and immensity of it, at its scope and power, then it cannot be denied that it was the greatest.

The full impact of the powerful economic recovery that President Reagan launched during the 1980s is still unfolding.

Mr. Reagan's expansion provided the financial resources to allow the U.S. to build up the combat capability of its defense forces and to begin blazing the new trail for a protective missile system. This, in turn, convinced the Soviet rulers they could never defeat the U.S., and today the Soviet Union and the U.S. are busily engaged in nuclear disarmament as peace breaks out in country after country throughout the world.

Equally important, it proved beyond doubt to all (except perhaps for a handful of left-wing faculty members in our best universities) that capitalism is superior to Socialism and C*******m. Our economy is the guiding beacon for all those countries that are ripping apart the ruthless collectivist regimes that ruined the lives of their people for so long.

One thing the Marxists got right: Economics is a powerful determining factor of history. But Marxists never dreamed it would be the economics of Ronald Reagan and all those capitalists that would prevail in the end.

Reply
Sep 21, 2020 09:08:57   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
debeda wrote:
As I thought. You've got no answers, just mud balls to sling



morning Deb,,,

What Milo, pointed out, Ronnie set the stage by firing all the traffic controllers..

Do not forget the he also stacked the labor relations board with industry supporting people which effectively ended the labor relations board as a functioning agency..

this may be the example that trump grabbed to set up his so called cabinet... same thing end in destroy the function by the head of the agency..

I can understand if this offends you, but can not help myself.. it is so funny and reflects reality so well..
I can understand if this offends you, but can not ...

Reply
Sep 21, 2020 09:22:21   #
permafrost Loc: Minnesota
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
╭∩╮(-_-)╭∩╮

NYT Archive: The Reagan Boom - Greatest Ever

Almost everyone knows that the greatest depression the U.S. ever had was in the 1930's. It was known as the Great Depression, and its infamy merits a separate section in economics textbooks. But what was its counterpart? When did our greatest economic expansion occur?

We just had it. And it is still expanding, setting new records with each passing month.

We don't know whether historians will call it the Great Expansion of the 1980's or Reagan's Great Expansion, but we do know from official economic statistics that the seven year period from 1982 to 1989 was the greatest, consistent burst of economic activity ever seen in the U.S. In fact, it was the greatest economic expansion the world has ever seen - in any country, at any time.

The two key measures that mark a depression or expansion are jobs and production. Let's look at the records that were set. Creation of jobs. From November 1982, when President Ronald Reagan's new economic program was beginning to take effect, to November 1989, 18.7 million new jobs were created. It was a world record: Never before had so many jobs been created during a comparable time period. The new jobs covered the entire spectrum of work, and more than half of them paid more than $20,000 a year. As total employment grew to 119.5 million, the rate of unemployment fell to slightly over 5 percent, the lowest level in 15 years. Creation of wealth.

The amount of wealth produced during this seven year period was stupendous - some $30 trillion worth of goods and services. Again, it was a world record. Never before had so much wealth been produced during a comparable period. According to a recent study, net asset values - including stocks, bonds and real estate - went up by more than $5 trillion between 1982 and 1989, an increase of roughly 50 percent.

There are other important measures. Steady economic growth. As we begin the decade of the 1990's, we are in our 86th straight month of economic growth - a new record for peacetime, five months longer than the wartime growth of World War II and only 23 months short of the wartime record set during the Vietnam War in the 1960's. Most experts now predict that it will last right through 1990, and perhaps beyond.

Income tax rates, interest rates and inflation.

Under President Reagan, top personal income tax rates were lowered dramatically, from 70 percent to 28 percent. This policy change was the prime force behind the record breaking economic expansion. Interest rates and inflation also fell sharply and, so far, have stayed comfortably low - a further indication of the power and pervasiveness of Mr. Reagan's economic policies. The stock market. Perhaps the key indicator of an economy's booms and busts is the stock market, the bottom line economic report card. And here the record has been striking. During the period from 1970 to 1982, the stock market barely moved. The Standard & Poor's index of 500 stocks inched up about 35 percent during that entire period. But starting in late 1982, just as Reaganomics began to work, the stock market took off like a giant skyrocket. Since then, the Standard & Poor's index has soared, reaching a record high of 360, almost triple what it was in 1982.

There were other consequences of the expansion. Annual Federal spending on public housing and welfare, and on Social Security, Medicare and health all increased by billions of dollars. The poverty rate has fallen steadily since 1983.

When you add up the record of the Reagan years, and the first year of President Bush - during which he has faithfully continued Mr. Reagan's economic policies - the conclusion is clear, inescapable and stunning. We have just witnessed America's Great Expansion.

The Reagan economic expansion was not perfect and we will never have one that is. The Federal budget deficits were too high and still are, too many Federal regulations lay unreformed and the trade deficit is worrisome.

In fact, the Reagan expansion may not have been the best economic expansion in history, for every economic expansion must be judged by many criteria. But if we look at the sheer size and immensity of it, at its scope and power, then it cannot be denied that it was the greatest.

The full impact of the powerful economic recovery that President Reagan launched during the 1980s is still unfolding.

Mr. Reagan's expansion provided the financial resources to allow the U.S. to build up the combat capability of its defense forces and to begin blazing the new trail for a protective missile system. This, in turn, convinced the Soviet rulers they could never defeat the U.S., and today the Soviet Union and the U.S. are busily engaged in nuclear disarmament as peace breaks out in country after country throughout the world.

Equally important, it proved beyond doubt to all (except perhaps for a handful of left-wing faculty members in our best universities) that capitalism is superior to Socialism and C*******m. Our economy is the guiding beacon for all those countries that are ripping apart the ruthless collectivist regimes that ruined the lives of their people for so long.

One thing the Marxists got right: Economics is a powerful determining factor of history. But Marxists never dreamed it would be the economics of Ronald Reagan and all those capitalists that would prevail in the end.
╭∩╮(-_-)╭∩╮ br br i b NYT Archive: The Reagan B... (show quote)



good morning Blade.. as ever, your post does not mention some of the worse and lasting of the Reagan problem

Do not forget that Bush the elder, in order to keep the economy working had to remove some of the Reagan policy before collapse.. and ronnie also stole the SS bale out .. huge cash grab as his failing became apparent..

One of those which we see every day is the law change which allowed unlimited stock buy back by management.. this resulted in sacrificing investment in equity in order to further enrich themselves..
this is the very act which rendered trumps tax gift to nothing other then making himself and other very rich people even richer and nothing for the average American..

Couple that with converting the United States from a funding Nation to a credit run nation and you have the national debt of today.. increasing by the trumpster at a unprecedented rate.. even in a time of good economy..

these things, along with gun running and running from the Med East after the k*****g of over 250 Marines. make Reagan the 2nd worst president in our modern day..



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