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Aug 21, 2020 00:04:58   #
working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina
 
In the main topics the question arose about who pays for the Democrats 'wish list'.

I put up sources that pointed out that during this pandemic 12 billionaires have increased their wealth by almost $700B. and I suggested that they might pay. Unfortunately, the source used race as a proxy for comparison. I want to be clear that I don't see it that way, mostly. I don't think I've ever called anyone a racist on the main board....only acknowledged those who openly have said they were. That is why I put up a second source. I think in most cases race is a proxy for caste or class.

Here's where I'm coming from. I think it is outrageous that those folks are the beneficiaries of a massive upward redistribution of the wealth while 44 million people have lost their jobs over the past 6 months. And no one is talking about that. Not the Democrats, the Republicans or the media. And no one on OPP.

I am a proud member of the working class from my first job to now (age 63). A working class hero is something to be, as John Lennon pointed out. Put in my time, did a good job, always got promoted into lower management because upper management knows I will make their life easier. No matter what job I do. But I had no ambition to go into upper management because I saw that the money changes people. I do not envy the rich. They are compromised. Wealth becomes the measure of all. I'm happy that I have kept my working class values. It allows me to see the sinful nature of an economic system that generates the results we are living with.

And it is sinful.

I'm not naive. I know the Democrats are as bought and paid for as the Republicans. It's a nice little gig they all have going on. Public 'service' to lobbyist to seats on corporate boards. All very legal and self serving. I am open to discussions about corruption in our political system, if that discussion is fair and not one sided. Calling me a communist or marxist is just silly. From a working class perspective, that's just replacing one set of overlords with another. More importantly, it simply dismisses the concerns and economic realities faced by American workers in the past 50 yrs.

When 60 % of American workers have seen their wages stagnate, is it any wonder they have no enthusiasm to engage in the rat race? Another 20% thank god they aren't in the rat race, but fear falling into it. There are measures that show that in the United States upward mobility has stagnated to the point where we are behind most of the developed economies. Our health and welfare indicators are falling behind also.

There is something majorly wrong. If you don't want to discuss the issues facing the nation, fine by me. If it's that important to libel Michelle Obama as transgender, I already know not to take you seriously. But if you think that the $700B transfer in 5 months to those 12 billionaires is both legal, legitimate, a natural outcome of our system, then you shouldn't be surprised if I am moving more and more into the Bernie column.

The American working class is getting royally screwed and at some point there will be rebellion. The rising tide does not lift all boats, especially those with holes in them. And there are large numbers of Americans who have, by design of those in power, leaky boats. One doesn't have to be a Marxist or communist to see that. Rebellion....as American as apple pie.

Aug 21, 2020 09:25:32   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
working class stiff wrote:
In the main topics the question arose about who pays for the Democrats 'wish list'.

I put up sources that pointed out that during this pandemic 12 billionaires have increased their wealth by almost $700B. and I suggested that they might pay. Unfortunately, the source used race as a proxy for comparison. I want to be clear that I don't see it that way, mostly. I don't think I've ever called anyone a racist on the main board....only acknowledged those who openly have said they were. That is why I put up a second source. I think in most cases race is a proxy for caste or class.

Here's where I'm coming from. I think it is outrageous that those folks are the beneficiaries of a massive upward redistribution of the wealth while 44 million people have lost their jobs over the past 6 months. And no one is talking about that. Not the Democrats, the Republicans or the media. And no one on OPP.

I am a proud member of the working class from my first job to now (age 63). A working class hero is something to be, as John Lennon pointed out. Put in my time, did a good job, always got promoted into lower management because upper management knows I will make their life easier. No matter what job I do. But I had no ambition to go into upper management because I saw that the money changes people. I do not envy the rich. They are compromised. Wealth becomes the measure of all. I'm happy that I have kept my working class values. It allows me to see the sinful nature of an economic system that generates the results we are living with.

And it is sinful.

I'm not naive. I know the Democrats are as bought and paid for as the Republicans. It's a nice little gig they all have going on. Public 'service' to lobbyist to seats on corporate boards. All very legal and self serving. I am open to discussions about corruption in our political system, if that discussion is fair and not one sided. Calling me a communist or marxist is just silly. From a working class perspective, that's just replacing one set of overlords with another. More importantly, it simply dismisses the concerns and economic realities faced by American workers in the past 50 yrs.

When 60 % of American workers have seen their wages stagnate, is it any wonder they have no enthusiasm to engage in the rat race? Another 20% thank god they aren't in the rat race, but fear falling into it. There are measures that show that in the United States upward mobility has stagnated to the point where we are behind most of the developed economies. Our health and welfare indicators are falling behind also.

There is something majorly wrong. If you don't want to discuss the issues facing the nation, fine by me. If it's that important to libel Michelle Obama as transgender, I already know not to take you seriously. But if you think that the $700B transfer in 5 months to those 12 billionaires is both legal, legitimate, a natural outcome of our system, then you shouldn't be surprised if I am moving more and more into the Bernie column.

The American working class is getting royally screwed and at some point there will be rebellion. The rising tide does not lift all boats, especially those with holes in them. And there are large numbers of Americans who have, by design of those in power, leaky boats. One doesn't have to be a Marxist or communist to see that. Rebellion....as American as apple pie.
In the main topics the question arose about who pa... (show quote)


Superb...

I will be looking forward to some if the comments on this thread... Forgive me if I remain an observer... I feel this is one of the occasions where I am out of my depth

(I will be informing a ccertain mutual friend of this thread... He opinion will no doubt be critical )

Aug 21, 2020 09:55:29   #
working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Superb...

I will be looking forward to some if the comments on this thread... Forgive me if I remain an observer... I feel this is one of the occasions where I am out of my depth

(I will be informing a ccertain mutual friend of this thread... He opinion will no doubt be critical )
Superb... br br I will be looking forward to som... (show quote)


Thank you CD. I'm not sure if anyone will respond. It's a cri de couer, that's why I put it here. Sometimes it's ok to yell into the night.

 
 
Aug 21, 2020 09:58:04   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
working class stiff wrote:
Thank you CD. I'm not sure if anyone will respond. It's a cri de couer, that's why I put it here. Sometimes it's ok to yell into the night.


Not too many folk signed into this section... You ought to post it on main....

Some excellent (thought provoking) ideas there...

Stay strong

Aug 21, 2020 10:39:56   #
working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Not too many folk signed into this section... You ought to post it on main....

Some excellent (thought provoking) ideas there...

Stay strong


Honestly, I'm not sure what I said would be fairly received. There are some folks who discuss the issues and raise germane points, but mostly it would devolve into a partisan sniper fest.

Most folks have forgotten, if they ever knew, how violently American workers had to fight for their rights in the late 1800 and early 1900s. I happen to embrace all the chapters of American history because it seems to me to be a story of the struggle to implement the ideals of the founding fathers. And like most people in the world, I think those ideals are worth implementing, especially in our private lives.

I think many Americans view the nation as a work that is finished. Many even yearn for a good old days (mostly the 1950s), thinking the nation is past it's prime somehow. I see the nation as a work in progress (shades of the dreaded 'living Constitution'). The reason I raised the issue of those billionaires is because I think at some point the (mal) distribution of wealth will lead to rebellion and violence. Not because folks want to, but because they must to maintain their rights as citizens. We now have a government run by corporate interests. Most of our regulatory agencies have been captured by the industries they are supposed to watch. The EPA is a prime example. Pouring industrial by products like arsenic into rivers is a cheap economic way of
disposing them. And now they are writing the rules telling Americans how much they are allowed to dispose of that way. We have an Education department that wants to dismantle public education.

When the rivers catch fire again and folks can't breath for smog, they'll remember what the role of the EPA consisted of. Americans will rebel and vote in a government that reminds the economic elites that the role of the government is to save them from themselves. The current system will create more demand for socio-economic reform than Bernie Sanders ever could.

Kind of a Yin Yang thing. Hope you're doing well. How's it going over there? Any covid rebound?

Aug 21, 2020 22:15:55   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
working class stiff wrote:
Honestly, I'm not sure what I said would be fairly received. There are some folks who discuss the issues and raise germane points, but mostly it would devolve into a partisan sniper fest.

Most folks have forgotten, if they ever knew, how violently American workers had to fight for their rights in the late 1800 and early 1900s. I happen to embrace all the chapters of American history because it seems to me to be a story of the struggle to implement the ideals of the founding fathers. And like most people in the world, I think those ideals are worth implementing, especially in our private lives.

I think many Americans view the nation as a work that is finished. Many even yearn for a good old days (mostly the 1950s), thinking the nation is past it's prime somehow. I see the nation as a work in progress (shades of the dreaded 'living Constitution'). The reason I raised the issue of those billionaires is because I think at some point the (mal) distribution of wealth will lead to rebellion and violence. Not because folks want to, but because they must to maintain their rights as citizens. We now have a government run by corporate interests. Most of our regulatory agencies have been captured by the industries they are supposed to watch. The EPA is a prime example. Pouring industrial by products like arsenic into rivers is a cheap economic way of
disposing them. And now they are writing the rules telling Americans how much they are allowed to dispose of that way. We have an Education department that wants to dismantle public education.

When the rivers catch fire again and folks can't breath for smog, they'll remember what the role of the EPA consisted of. Americans will rebel and vote in a government that reminds the economic elites that the role of the government is to save them from themselves. The current system will create more demand for socio-economic reform than Bernie Sanders ever could.

Kind of a Yin Yang thing. Hope you're doing well. How's it going over there? Any covid rebound?
Honestly, I'm not sure what I said would be fairly... (show quote)


See... I don't know enough to engage on this topic... But I can follow your line of thought...

My wife 100% agrees with you... Limiting the wealth of a nation to a select few will always result in the masses uprising and redistributing said wealth...

I think the majority of those supporting the status quo are well aware of the problems... But are also fearful that rocking the boat might result in their losing what they still have


China is experiencing its second wave.... Almost a thousand cases on the mainland, with close to that in Hong Kong as well.... It was worse a week ago... But they appear to have it under control...

Only one case in my province, but the restrictions have been upoed again... Need to wear a mask in public areas....

I'm well... Just waiting to see when I head back to work

You?

Aug 29, 2020 15:13:40   #
tNotMyPrez Loc: So. CA, USA
 
Monopolies and/or monopolistic behavior amongst falsely and supposedly "competing" companies has overwhelmed the ability of most "little guys" to get ahead.

Anti-Trust/Monopoly laws/regulations from the 1800s and early 1900s, of which enforcement was suspended by Ronald Reagan's DOJ, should be reactivated, by executive order or memorandum if necessary, on January 20th.

Will Biden/Harris/the Dems ???

 
 
Nov 7, 2020 18:18:29   #
jelun
 
Plenty of people come to Leaning Left to peek at what is said.
Most are not thoughtful enough to give cogent responses. You have been around long enough so you already know that.
This section was specifically created to give thoughtful people a break from those who are not.



Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Not too many folk signed into this section... You ought to post it on main....

Some excellent (thought provoking) ideas there...

Stay strong

Nov 7, 2020 18:25:03   #
jelun
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
See... I don't know enough to engage on this topic... But I can follow your line of thought...

My wife 100% agrees with you... Limiting the wealth of a nation to a select few will always result in the masses uprising and redistributing said wealth...

I think the majority of those supporting the status quo are well aware of the problems... But are also fearful that rocking the boat might result in their losing what they still have


China is experiencing its second wave.... Almost a thousand cases on the mainland, with close to that in Hong Kong as well.... It was worse a week ago... But they appear to have it under control...

Only one case in my province, but the restrictions have been upoed again... Need to wear a mask in public areas....

I'm well... Just waiting to see when I head back to work

You?
See... I don't know enough to engage on this topic... (show quote)


I have to disagree with you, uprising are not the natural order of things. People succomb to the pressures to conform and also to allow the authoritarians make decisions for them. Look at Russia, other eastern block nations are the same. People put up with the corruption and power of others for decades before something goes so terribly wrong that they are willing to give their lives to make their world better. That is why Jim Crow Laws work so well.

Nov 19, 2020 13:06:27   #
Rose42
 
working class stiff wrote:
In the main topics the question arose about who pays for the Democrats 'wish list'.

I put up sources that pointed out that during this pandemic 12 billionaires have increased their wealth by almost $700B. and I suggested that they might pay. Unfortunately, the source used race as a proxy for comparison. I want to be clear that I don't see it that way, mostly. I don't think I've ever called anyone a racist on the main board....only acknowledged those who openly have said they were. That is why I put up a second source. I think in most cases race is a proxy for caste or class.

Here's where I'm coming from. I think it is outrageous that those folks are the beneficiaries of a massive upward redistribution of the wealth while 44 million people have lost their jobs over the past 6 months. And no one is talking about that. Not the Democrats, the Republicans or the media. And no one on OPP.

I am a proud member of the working class from my first job to now (age 63). A working class hero is something to be, as John Lennon pointed out. Put in my time, did a good job, always got promoted into lower management because upper management knows I will make their life easier. No matter what job I do. But I had no ambition to go into upper management because I saw that the money changes people. I do not envy the rich. They are compromised. Wealth becomes the measure of all. I'm happy that I have kept my working class values. It allows me to see the sinful nature of an economic system that generates the results we are living with.

And it is sinful.

I'm not naive. I know the Democrats are as bought and paid for as the Republicans. It's a nice little gig they all have going on. Public 'service' to lobbyist to seats on corporate boards. All very legal and self serving. I am open to discussions about corruption in our political system, if that discussion is fair and not one sided. Calling me a communist or marxist is just silly. From a working class perspective, that's just replacing one set of overlords with another. More importantly, it simply dismisses the concerns and economic realities faced by American workers in the past 50 yrs.

When 60 % of American workers have seen their wages stagnate, is it any wonder they have no enthusiasm to engage in the rat race? Another 20% thank god they aren't in the rat race, but fear falling into it. There are measures that show that in the United States upward mobility has stagnated to the point where we are behind most of the developed economies. Our health and welfare indicators are falling behind also.

There is something majorly wrong. If you don't want to discuss the issues facing the nation, fine by me. If it's that important to libel Michelle Obama as transgender, I already know not to take you seriously. But if you think that the $700B transfer in 5 months to those 12 billionaires is both legal, legitimate, a natural outcome of our system, then you shouldn't be surprised if I am moving more and more into the Bernie column.

The American working class is getting royally screwed and at some point there will be rebellion. The rising tide does not lift all boats, especially those with holes in them. And there are large numbers of Americans who have, by design of those in power, leaky boats. One doesn't have to be a Marxist or communist to see that. Rebellion....as American as apple pie.
In the main topics the question arose about who pa... (show quote)


Wish I’d seen this sooner. Great post. Its a shame jelun had to add a childish comment.

We are the problem. Not the left, not the right but all of us collectively. Its no coincidence IMO that as social media and smartphones became more popular we as a nation have let these issues mushroom

How do we get people more engaged in righting these wrongs? There is no easy answer.

Nov 20, 2020 10:02:06   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Rose42 wrote:
Wish I’d seen this sooner. Great post. Its a shame jelun had to add a childish comment.

We are the problem. Not the left, not the right but all of us collectively. Its no coincidence IMO that as social media and smartphones became more popular we as a nation have let these issues mushroom

How do we get people more engaged in righting these wrongs? There is no easy answer.


Well said

 
 
Dec 9, 2020 20:21:09   #
jelun
 
Thanks for making my point for me.
Any perusal of your typical post shows just why this section was necessary.



Rose42 wrote:
Wish I’d seen this sooner. Great post. Its a shame jelun had to add a childish comment.

We are the problem. Not the left, not the right but all of us collectively. Its no coincidence IMO that as social media and smartphones became more popular we as a nation have let these issues mushroom

How do we get people more engaged in righting these wrongs? There is no easy answer.

Dec 10, 2020 07:34:08   #
jelun
 
Here we are in the last week before the holiday break for the millionaires and billionaires in Congress when we will finally be able to "celebrate" the crumbs they toss out to help a small portion of the working people, the actual public service workers.
I hope that you are ramping up to truly apply pressure on Congress and the Executive Branch in the coming years especially if Dems win the senate seats in GA.
Gee, I am tired, though.


working class stiff wrote:
In the main topics the question arose about who pays for the Democrats 'wish list'.

I put up sources that pointed out that during this pandemic 12 billionaires have increased their wealth by almost $700B. and I suggested that they might pay. Unfortunately, the source used race as a proxy for comparison. I want to be clear that I don't see it that way, mostly. I don't think I've ever called anyone a racist on the main board....only acknowledged those who openly have said they were. That is why I put up a second source. I think in most cases race is a proxy for caste or class.

Here's where I'm coming from. I think it is outrageous that those folks are the beneficiaries of a massive upward redistribution of the wealth while 44 million people have lost their jobs over the past 6 months. And no one is talking about that. Not the Democrats, the Republicans or the media. And no one on OPP.

I am a proud member of the working class from my first job to now (age 63). A working class hero is something to be, as John Lennon pointed out. Put in my time, did a good job, always got promoted into lower management because upper management knows I will make their life easier. No matter what job I do. But I had no ambition to go into upper management because I saw that the money changes people. I do not envy the rich. They are compromised. Wealth becomes the measure of all. I'm happy that I have kept my working class values. It allows me to see the sinful nature of an economic system that generates the results we are living with.

And it is sinful.

I'm not naive. I know the Democrats are as bought and paid for as the Republicans. It's a nice little gig they all have going on. Public 'service' to lobbyist to seats on corporate boards. All very legal and self serving. I am open to discussions about corruption in our political system, if that discussion is fair and not one sided. Calling me a communist or marxist is just silly. From a working class perspective, that's just replacing one set of overlords with another. More importantly, it simply dismisses the concerns and economic realities faced by American workers in the past 50 yrs.

When 60 % of American workers have seen their wages stagnate, is it any wonder they have no enthusiasm to engage in the rat race? Another 20% thank god they aren't in the rat race, but fear falling into it. There are measures that show that in the United States upward mobility has stagnated to the point where we are behind most of the developed economies. Our health and welfare indicators are falling behind also.

There is something majorly wrong. If you don't want to discuss the issues facing the nation, fine by me. If it's that important to libel Michelle Obama as transgender, I already know not to take you seriously. But if you think that the $700B transfer in 5 months to those 12 billionaires is both legal, legitimate, a natural outcome of our system, then you shouldn't be surprised if I am moving more and more into the Bernie column.

The American working class is getting royally screwed and at some point there will be rebellion. The rising tide does not lift all boats, especially those with holes in them. And there are large numbers of Americans who have, by design of those in power, leaky boats. One doesn't have to be a Marxist or communist to see that. Rebellion....as American as apple pie.
In the main topics the question arose about who pa... (show quote)

Dec 10, 2020 18:25:33   #
tNotMyPrez Loc: So. CA, USA
 
As of 12/9/20

The Attorney General of Texas wants the SCOTUS to throw out the election results from Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin and Michigan and indefinitely delay the Electoral College vote due next week.

In addition, 17 states have signed on to the Texas and trump effort agreeing that Texas should decide the elections of swing states: Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia.

ALL are Republican-controlled states: do they all have Attorneys General that need a federal pardon?

Dec 10, 2020 18:27:42   #
tNotMyPrez Loc: So. CA, USA
 
Less than 4 minutes to get in to the holiday spirit:

Watch "LITTLE DUFFER BOY 2020 | Christmas Parody | Don Caron" on YouTube

https://youtu.be/aSfUsZC0u7g

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