BigOlBear

I'm stunned ... you're absolutely right! Glaucon's post is certainly out of character with all his other posts and he actually makes a valid point. Now, instead of simply lamenting the current state, why don't we start a discussion of possible solutions?

grace scott

Did you go to page 8? The truce was short lived.

bahmer

Your showing your age my friend I'm 71 and remember it well. I don't remember who was all in it but we used to watch the show all the time.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

BigOBear, I couldn't agree more. I would suggest we all start by accepting the fact we are far more alike than we aren't. If we were to consider each other more as fellow Americans instead of adversaries, it would be a good start. Then, again, what can you expect of a populace that is governed by a group of representative legislators that can't do that, themselves? We seem to be no better than the ones we put into office.

As far as the thread topic goes, I suggest the idea that a 'troll' on the OPP is anyone who falls out of sort with any particular poster of opposing view. There are countless troll's...given that definition, of all political persuasions or ideologies on this forum. Walk in each other's shoes, for a moment. Look past any preconceived notions.

I have too often found that people would rather argue over the 10% of what they disagree on than work from any point of their 90% of agreement. You may change the %s, but the theory seems true, IMO.

Fussin' & fightin' just to be fussin' & fightin'.

Kind'a sad. :roll:

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Peter Graves is the only one I remember from the show. He, of course, was the natural brother of James Arness, aka, Matt Dillon on Gunsmoke.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Yes, it was. :oops: But, the point was made! :wink:

Homestead

You have to understand that the progressive Liberals use Saul Alinsky's book, "Rules for Radicals."

The progressive liberals, that are in power today, set the tone and the methods for today’s liberals, through the television, movies, literature and the media.

Most of the liberals today, follow their lead, without even knowing who or what they're following.



These are twelve rules for radicals by Saul Alinsky.

(Notice how none of the rules promotes discussion, dialogue or in any way sets out a platform for finding solutions, it only gives you a way to force what you have to say, onto others.)
_______________________________________________________________________________
* RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.” Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)

* RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.” It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)

* RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

* RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can k**l them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

* RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

* RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.” They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)

* RULE 7: “A tactic that d**gs on too long becomes a d**g.” Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)

* RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)

* RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)

* RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)

* RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)

* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
__________________________________________________________________________

The liberals don't discuss. They accuse, insult, deny, ignore and change the subject, but, they will not conduct a two way conversation.


Recently one of the tactics I've seen them use, is that they will resort to correcting peoples grammar and spelling, as a way to avoid talking about the issues, on the grounds that English writing errors makes one look uneducated and that's why they can't be taken seriously.

This was coming from a Liberal, who may have had better English sk**ls than I, but, was no professor of English by any stretch of the imagination.

Whether he knew it or not, this criticizing of writing sk**ls is a combination of Saul Alinsky's rules 3, 5, 8, and 12.


It irritated me, so I started looking at rule 4.

RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”

uuuuuuuuummmmmmmm..........................................this is interesting?


The end result was that I found a grammar, spelling, sentence structure, English checking program. I copied what he wrote and had the program check it for English errors. He did not do that well.

From then on, every time he posted, I checked his English. No matter what he said or the point he tried to make, all I did was point out his English errors.

Only when I commented on his English mistakes, I didn't write the comments.

I had copied a number of his posts, where he was ragging on other people and copied his sentences and his comments and when I pasted, I used his own words, pointing out his own mistakes.

Occasionally I pointed out what he got right, but, at no time did I comment on what he was trying to say. It took a while, but I think I finally got through to him.

I'm sure I ticked off a lot of people, the way I badgered him. But, the point was to take away one of Saul Alinsky's weapons used to avoid and discourage discussions.


I haven't heard from him in a while. I haven't seen him or anyone else try to change the subject by criticizing people writing sk**ls.

I hope I don't see it any more.

But, if I do, I now have a personal strategy that I will employ, that I know they can't ignore, because, it is very annoying and very rude to have people check your spelling when their trying to discuss important matters.


When it comes to a decision to leave a forum or any other forum like this, people should first explore ways of addressing the problems they encounter.


If you quit,............they win........which means you lose.......it's as simple as that.



The good book says................Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Or you can go with a more collegial expression:

WHAT GOES AROUND, TENDS TO COME AROUND!

bahmer

Your memory is better than mine but I kind of remember that name.

bahmer

Great post and very factual. I have seen the diversionary tactics used on here often.

PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.

Peter Graves, Barbara Bain, and Greg Morris. That is all I can recall.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

That is wisdom that comes with age, indeed. :thumbup:

Either that, or a collector's edition of TV Guide. :lol:

PoppaGringo Loc: Muslim City, Mexifornia, B.R.

i haven't seen, nor required, a T.V. Guide since the mid 90's. The old memory bank is going bankrupt with age.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

But, you get better-looking everyday, Salty! :thumbup:

"Tis better to look good than to feel good" [quote/] Billy Crystal doing Fernando Lamas. :wink:

Searching Loc: Rural Southwest VA

Yes indeed, anything is possible and miracles "do" happen!!
:wink:

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Welcome aboard, young lady. Good to have you join us! :thumbup: