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Right-wingers say the Supreme Court ruling will destroy "religious liberty"
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Jun 18, 2020 07:16:16   #
American Vet
 
PeterS wrote:
I believe in the Constitution and the concept of equal rights and that one cannot extend one's beliefs over others. If you don't like gays don't hire them but if you do hire them they have all the rights as any other employee. If you can't handle that then maybe you should be the one to head to Venezuela as an authoritarian government is what you are looking for and not a constitutional republic...


Operating one’s business according to one’s principles/beliefs is no ‘extending one’s beliefs’ over others. An employer also has rights.

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Jun 18, 2020 17:25:09   #
son of witless
 
PeterS wrote:
I've been an employer since 1983 and the one thing I've learned, whether full-time or part-time, you have to document any form of reprimand, warning, or any action requiring discipline. If you are fired for cause you can't draw unemployment and have no legal recourse against me. If I fire you because I don't like you, you can draw unemployment and my unemployment rates go up plus I would open myself up to a lawsuit. Now if I fire you because my religious values conflict with your sexual orientation and I'm not part of a church or religious organization then I have no cause--other than I am trying to extend my religious values over you--which opens me up to all sorts of legal liabilities. And that's without this ruling.

As I said to CD, when a business is hiring it is customary to interview prospective employees two to three times preferably by more than yourself. In addition, do a background check, and while homosexuality may not show up legal problems associated with sexual behavior might. If a prospective employee passes all that then I am going to assume they look and act like anyone else so why would I care about their sexual orientation. I mean would you five someone because they committed adultery and didn't repent for it? I would think not since you v**ed for a president who did just that.

So I would say to chill and document, document, document. If they do nothing to give you cause to fire them other than their sexual behavior I would say you probably have a good employee and you should let you god do the judging.

The rights of one can't be extended over another. That's the only thing this ruling did, nothing else...
I've been an employer since 1983 and the one thing... (show quote)


I believe we are talking at cross purposes. We are not even clearly arguing with one another. That is partly my fault. Obviously I have not spoken clearly enough. Your comment from a prior post " If you don't like homosexuals then don't hire them but if you have hired them you have zero right to fire them for that reason. "

My point of that being illegal is I believe true, but since most of the time the employer will not know that before hand, it is not relevant enough to continue as a discussion point.

I keep trying to figure out how to word this better. When someone is notified they are being terminated they may take any legal avenue to hold onto their position. Them being part of a Super Minority, by which I mean a protected minority, even if it has no connection to their termination, now have the option to threaten to sue on that basis.

I knew of a Supervisor at a big company who had a problem employee. This problem employee happened to belong to two separate Super Minority groups and they knew it. He gave this employee every opportunity to improve, but that person put little effort into it. The company was terrified to terminate this employee because they feared a discrimination lawsuit. Finally this problem employee t***sferred to another division and became somebody else's problem.

The Supreme Court has burdened companies with something they did not need. Yet another Super Minority Victim Group that has higher rights than the majority. That is wrong. I do not care what you say about it.

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Jun 19, 2020 14:01:53   #
Abel
 
son of witless wrote:
I believe we are talking at cross purposes. We are not even clearly arguing with one another. That is partly my fault. Obviously I have not spoken clearly enough. Your comment from a prior post " If you don't like homosexuals then don't hire them but if you have hired them you have zero right to fire them for that reason. "

My point of that being illegal is I believe true, but since most of the time the employer will not know that before hand, it is not relevant enough to continue as a discussion point.

I keep trying to figure out how to word this better. When someone is notified they are being terminated they may take any legal avenue to hold onto their position. Them being part of a Super Minority, by which I mean a protected minority, even if it has no connection to their termination, now have the option to threaten to sue on that basis.

I knew of a Supervisor at a big company who had a problem employee. This problem employee happened to belong to two separate Super Minority groups and they knew it. He gave this employee every opportunity to improve, but that person put little effort into it. The company was terrified to terminate this employee because they feared a discrimination lawsuit. Finally this problem employee t***sferred to another division and became somebody else's problem.

The Supreme Court has burdened companies with something they did not need. Yet another Super Minority Victim Group that has higher rights than the majority. That is wrong. I do not care what you say about it.
I believe we are talking at cross purposes. We are... (show quote)


I'm not going to go into a long spiel here, but I'm going to add my two cents into the subject. IMHO: I don't care what ignorant laws the Democrats and their Unions put in place to keep people from getting fired from a job, the boss, who owns the company and pays the wages, has every right to fire an employee for wh**ever reason he/she deems necessary, even if it's just the way you part your hair or run your loud mouth. He pays the employee, the employee is expected to produce wh**ever service he/she was hired to do in a civil and competent manner. If the employee can't do this to the employers satisfaction, the employer has every right to get rid of him/her. The employee has rights also, he/she can find employment elsewhere; most of the time the employee asked to work there, the employer didn't force them to work there. If the employer finds out something he/she objects to after an interview, if a resolution to the problem can't be worked out, the employee should be terminated. Of course, I'm from the old school of work ethics (a fair days work for a fair days pay!), when the rules of engagement were clearly understood and before the liberal lawyers overrode common sense and sanity in this country.

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Jun 19, 2020 15:19:27   #
son of witless
 
Abel wrote:
I'm not going to go into a long spiel here, but I'm going to add my two cents into the subject. IMHO: I don't care what ignorant laws the Democrats and their Unions put in place to keep people from getting fired from a job, the boss, who owns the company and pays the wages, has every right to fire an employee for wh**ever reason he/she deems necessary, even if it's just the way you part your hair or run your loud mouth. He pays the employee, the employee is expected to produce wh**ever service he/she was hired to do in a civil and competent manner. If the employee can't do this to the employers satisfaction, the employer has every right to get rid of him/her. The employee has rights also, he/she can find employment elsewhere; most of the time the employee asked to work there, the employer didn't force them to work there. If the employer finds out something he/she objects to after an interview, if a resolution to the problem can't be worked out, the employee should be terminated. Of course, I'm from the old school of work ethics (a fair days work for a fair days pay!), when the rules of engagement were clearly understood and before the liberal lawyers overrode common sense and sanity in this country.
I'm not going to go into a long spiel here, but I'... (show quote)


In a perfect world I would agree. However, I have worked in large companies, and I have seen minority employees get away with stuff that the majority never could. I have also seen supervisors who were power mad dictators. Normally they discriminated against everyone except their stooges.

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Jun 20, 2020 10:10:51   #
Army
 
Abel wrote:
I'm not going to go into a long spiel here, but I'm going to add my two cents into the subject. IMHO: I don't care what ignorant laws the Democrats and their Unions put in place to keep people from getting fired from a job, the boss, who owns the company and pays the wages, has every right to fire an employee for wh**ever reason he/she deems necessary, even if it's just the way you part your hair or run your loud mouth. He pays the employee, the employee is expected to produce wh**ever service he/she was hired to do in a civil and competent manner. If the employee can't do this to the employers satisfaction, the employer has every right to get rid of him/her. The employee has rights also, he/she can find employment elsewhere; most of the time the employee asked to work there, the employer didn't force them to work there. If the employer finds out something he/she objects to after an interview, if a resolution to the problem can't be worked out, the employee should be terminated. Of course, I'm from the old school of work ethics (a fair days work for a fair days pay!), when the rules of engagement were clearly understood and before the liberal lawyers overrode common sense and sanity in this country.
I'm not going to go into a long spiel here, but I'... (show quote)


I totally understand an agree but unfortunately in today's politically correct it's a buddy system and it has nothing to do with the person's work or their work ethics or their production or their family or anything else anymore it's not like the old days if your dad worked in the coal mines for the railroad and they knew you had good blood and they'd hire you an ment something a job today is not like use be a man that worked met something . Today's world an been long time ( many years ) now they punish a man that's works an give to a man that don't an they will even tell you it's not how good a worker you are it's only there opinions of you . You can do everything right an be wrong . They hire supervisors that are the laziest worthless no good cockeyed cocky unknowledgeable types let alone disrespectful types that's what ruins people an company's . They don't want good man because there not they will ruin a good man . An when you get in politics it's even worst no wonder this country's went to Hell . Most company's have ruined this country with there filthy corporate welfare they don't help community's or give back anything they rape village communities use all their resources inflate prices steel pensions . A good Man means nothing today . They h**e good man an don't want respect a worker all a good man wants is respect . Respect is there enemy . Now want to control your thoughts , beliefs , spy on you your life . Iam a capitalist but not a c*******t look around buddy ! I've worked lot places I wasn't only a good worker but a hard worker . They will hire millions to replace you instead of paying you your worth & respect that's all most people or a good man wants. It's shame really Good made us to produce not reduce . The only thing a good man has is his own knowledge of what he was he gets old . But a no good have no idea shame see what has happened to . I thank God I was a man have no regrets of what I was when I look back . I see this country has turned c*******t in so many ways everyday God help us there tech , tv. News even thus v***s is change in the healthcare system desensitizing people dissociation of people God help us save this republic.

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Jun 22, 2020 14:25:30   #
Abel
 
Army wrote:
I totally understand an agree but unfortunately in today's politically correct it's a buddy system and it has nothing to do with the person's work or their work ethics or their production or their family or anything else anymore it's not like the old days if your dad worked in the coal mines for the railroad and they knew you had good blood and they'd hire you an ment something a job today is not like use be a man that worked met something . Today's world an been long time ( many years ) now they punish a man that's works an give to a man that don't an they will even tell you it's not how good a worker you are it's only there opinions of you . You can do everything right an be wrong . They hire supervisors that are the laziest worthless no good cockeyed cocky unknowledgeable types let alone disrespectful types that's what ruins people an company's . They don't want good man because there not they will ruin a good man . An when you get in politics it's even worst no wonder this country's went to Hell . Most company's have ruined this country with there filthy corporate welfare they don't help community's or give back anything they rape village communities use all their resources inflate prices steel pensions . A good Man means nothing today . They h**e good man an don't want respect a worker all a good man wants is respect . Respect is there enemy . Now want to control your thoughts , beliefs , spy on you your life . Iam a capitalist but not a c*******t look around buddy ! I've worked lot places I wasn't only a good worker but a hard worker . They will hire millions to replace you instead of paying you your worth & respect that's all most people or a good man wants. It's shame really Good made us to produce not reduce . The only thing a good man has is his own knowledge of what he was he gets old . But a no good have no idea shame see what has happened to . I thank God I was a man have no regrets of what I was when I look back . I see this country has turned c*******t in so many ways everyday God help us there tech , tv. News even thus v***s is change in the healthcare system desensitizing people dissociation of people God help us save this republic.
I totally understand an agree but unfortunately in... (show quote)


I'm not sure I understand everything you tried to say, but I think some of what I could decipher might have had some t***h in it. Thanks for trying.

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Jun 30, 2020 22:05:15   #
Army
 
Abel wrote:
I'm not sure I understand everything you tried to say, but I think some of what I could decipher might have had some t***h in it. Thanks for trying.


Thanks that's cool

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