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The Great Divide(s)
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Apr 4, 2020 18:32:02   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
Many of you will see who the poster is for this, and won't even bother to read it. Others will read it and blow it off. This post will generate a lot of flak and blowback. The statements will be disputed and the messenger will be flamed (as is usually the case). However, the facts and conclusions cannot be disputed (even though there will be attempts to do so). I speak in generalities, and many conservatives will disagree in high dudgeon, saying that it doesn't apply to them (although many of the conclusions indeed do and they won't admit it.)

There are a number of faultlines that are fracturing our republic. I say a number of them, because they (like earthquake faults) interact with each other to become a social chasm that is growing deeper by the day.

Let me enumerate some of these faultlines:
1.) Economic faultline. The upper 5% of our society control or own 95% of the total wealth of the country. This means that the average joe is just getting along while the upper elite is lavishing the good life on one another.
2.) Religious faultline. Religious intolerance is gaining steam, inciting hatred and distrust among factions that have led to violence and murder.
3.) Cultural faultline. A subset in many ways of the religious one, it tends to marginalize minorities (sexual, ethnic, religious, racial) and create dissension and physical violence in many ways.
4.) Racial faultline. This one has been in our culture (even though we try not to admit it) since the 1600's … amplified by the Civil War and Reconstruction. While there have been efforts to suppress it over the years, it has never gone away and is resurging with a vehemence.
5.)Ethnic faultline. It's "them" that are taking our jobs, and making our society less homogeneous. "The Moslems are the work of the devil," etc.
6.) Educational faultline. Bias against 'eggheads' has always been a factor on our society. Arrogance by "professionals" and corporate management against ordinary workers adds to the mix. Anti-intellectualism is on the rise again in this culture. Distrust of anyone with a college education is on the rise.
7.) Occupational faultline. This one is bad and getting worse. Lots of jobs that didn't require a college degree have been lost and those that are coming back, are being automated to a fare-thee-well. A company that makes widgets that used to employ 600 people now hires 60 employees and four dozen robots to make the same widget. That other 540 people now compete for the only remaining jobs that they are qualified for with thousands of others in the same boat. Since many people valued themselves by their income and job description, the loss of self-esteem is incalculable.

While these various faultlines fall on various people with varying results, there are some uniting values.

Conservative Progressive
Lower average income Higher average income
More religious Lower religious affiliations
More culturally strict More libertarian
Less racially diverse More racially diverse
Less ethnically diverse More ethnically diverse
Lower average education Higher average education
Lower sk**l sets for Higher average sk**l set for
manufacturing manufacturing
Single-sources news input Acquires information from a
from conservative variety of sources.
outlets

With these divergences in faultlines, and with these divides growing worse, what future does this hold for our country?
Do we want to be a mono-cultural, mono-theistic, single ethnicity society? Or do we want to become a dynamic society using the sk**ls and inputs of a multitude of people of varying abilities, religions and cultures?
It is up to us to decide. I hope we make the correct choice.

Reply
Apr 4, 2020 19:31:39   #
Mtngal
 
We are living in a very fractured society, mistrust, ignorance and hatred abound. We can agree to disagree in a civilized way (hopefully) while still finding common ground. Irregardless of ones political affiliation, religion or race more empathy towards our fellow American can go a long way.

I want to see this grand experiment called The United States of America succeed.

Reply
Apr 4, 2020 19:34:08   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
whitnebrat wrote:
Many of you will see who the poster is for this, and won't even bother to read it. Others will read it and blow it off. This post will generate a lot of flak and blowback. The statements will be disputed and the messenger will be flamed (as is usually the case). However, the facts and conclusions cannot be disputed (even though there will be attempts to do so). I speak in generalities, and many conservatives will disagree in high dudgeon, saying that it doesn't apply to them (although many of the conclusions indeed do and they won't admit it.)

There are a number of faultlines that are fracturing our republic. I say a number of them, because they (like earthquake faults) interact with each other to become a social chasm that is growing deeper by the day.

Let me enumerate some of these faultlines:
1.) Economic faultline. The upper 5% of our society control or own 95% of the total wealth of the country. This means that the average joe is just getting along while the upper elite is lavishing the good life on one another.
2.) Religious faultline. Religious intolerance is gaining steam, inciting hatred and distrust among factions that have led to violence and murder.
3.) Cultural faultline. A subset in many ways of the religious one, it tends to marginalize minorities (sexual, ethnic, religious, racial) and create dissension and physical violence in many ways.
4.) Racial faultline. This one has been in our culture (even though we try not to admit it) since the 1600's … amplified by the Civil War and Reconstruction. While there have been efforts to suppress it over the years, it has never gone away and is resurging with a vehemence.
5.)Ethnic faultline. It's "them" that are taking our jobs, and making our society less homogeneous. "The Moslems are the work of the devil," etc.
6.) Educational faultline. Bias against 'eggheads' has always been a factor on our society. Arrogance by "professionals" and corporate management against ordinary workers adds to the mix. Anti-intellectualism is on the rise again in this culture. Distrust of anyone with a college education is on the rise.
7.) Occupational faultline. This one is bad and getting worse. Lots of jobs that didn't require a college degree have been lost and those that are coming back, are being automated to a fare-thee-well. A company that makes widgets that used to employ 600 people now hires 60 employees and four dozen robots to make the same widget. That other 540 people now compete for the only remaining jobs that they are qualified for with thousands of others in the same boat. Since many people valued themselves by their income and job description, the loss of self-esteem is incalculable.

While these various faultlines fall on various people with varying results, there are some uniting values.

Conservative Progressive
Lower average income Higher average income
More religious Lower religious affiliations
More culturally strict More libertarian
Less racially diverse More racially diverse
Less ethnically diverse More ethnically diverse
Lower average education Higher average education
Lower sk**l sets for Higher average sk**l set for
manufacturing manufacturing
Single-sources news input Acquires information from a
from conservative variety of sources.
outlets

With these divergences in faultlines, and with these divides growing worse, what future does this hold for our country?
Do we want to be a mono-cultural, mono-theistic, single ethnicity society? Or do we want to become a dynamic society using the sk**ls and inputs of a multitude of people of varying abilities, religions and cultures?
It is up to us to decide. I hope we make the correct choice.
Many of you will see who the poster is for this, a... (show quote)


β€œ........facts and conclusions cannot be disputed”. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

You’ve never figured out the difference between a provable fact and an Assumption built on Opinions! Prove these β€œfacts and conclusions” or admit that they are nothing more than the usual talking points of the elitist Liberals.......and your snobby Opinion!

Reply
 
 
Apr 4, 2020 22:12:42   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
TexaCan wrote:
β€œ........facts and conclusions cannot be disputed”. πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

You’ve never figured out the difference between a provable fact and an Assumption built on Opinions! Prove these β€œfacts and conclusions” or admit that they are nothing more than the usual talking points of the elitist Liberals.......and your snobby Opinion!


another classic example of what I expected to get in reply.

Reply
Apr 4, 2020 22:38:41   #
Rose42
 
whitnebrat wrote:
another classic example of what I expected to get in reply.


Younare confusing your opinion with fact. Airily proclaiming your opinion can’t be disputed does not make it so. Of course it can be.

I agree with some of it but not all of it. Interesting piece.

Reply
Apr 4, 2020 23:05:37   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
Rose42 wrote:
Younare confusing your opinion with fact. Airily proclaiming your opinion can’t be disputed does not make it so. Of course it can be.

I agree with some of it but not all of it. Interesting piece.


Just curious, what parts do you disagree with?

Reply
Apr 5, 2020 10:16:55   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
whitnebrat wrote:
another classic example of what I expected to get in reply.


So, I take it that you can’t prove anything you said? Exactly! Just like I expected!

Your opinion is not a provable fact!

Reply
 
 
Apr 5, 2020 12:08:22   #
Rose42
 
whitnebrat wrote:
Just curious, what parts do you disagree with?


Economic faultline - There is also a category of uber rich who control the Fed and basically look out for their own interests - making more money - at the expense of the rest of us. The gap of rich and poor has always been there and will always be there.

Religious intolerance - yes and no. Westboro Baptist type 'Christians' yes. The types that are more like Ravi Zacharias and many other notable Christian apologists, no. People are hypersensitive to everything these days and project meanings that aren't there.

Cultural - its always been there. However, it used to be that immigrants became American and embraced our culture rather than insisting they keep theirs to the exclusion of ours. That contributes to the problem.

Racial - yes and no. In many areas and occupations its no big deal. Yet the media, social media and politicians fuel it incessantly which means it will never stop festering. Yes there are still problems and likely always will be. Obama fueled it with his actions and so has Trump with his rhetoric.

Ethnic - Disagree to a point. I grew up in an area which was very diverse. The only problem was with some bringing in workers from other countries because they could pay them s***e wages. Many in the tech industry were laid off so corporations could pay much lower salaries to overseas workers and a lot of them brought in people from overseas and helped them get their green cards. They employed them rather than the US workers because it was much cheaper. It used to be when people came here they embraced America and didn't ask for special considerations. That has changed.

Educational - I'd say some if the bias against 'eggheads' is justified. Many never venture out of the cocoon of academia and it shows. I don't know as its distrust of people with college degrees but a growing realization that it doesn't make them smarter or more capable than anyone else nor does it make one wise.

Occupational - Yes this is bad. So many things are outsourced overseas as well. Its all for $$$. Companies used to take care of their employees so then the employees took care of the customers. People used to stay with the same company until retirement. That has changed.

Nit picking but I'd pair conservative with liberal, not progressive.

As for news, we can't overlook the plethora of activist journalists that also lean left. Journalism has become infested with activists on both sides.

Just some thoughts - not all disagreement.

Reply
Apr 5, 2020 13:03:30   #
milamber
 
Rose42 wrote:
Economic faultline - There is also a category of uber rich who control the Fed and basically look out for their own interests - making more money - at the expense of the rest of us. The gap of rich and poor has always been there and will always be there.

Religious intolerance - yes and no. Westboro Baptist type 'Christians' yes. The types that are more like Ravi Zacharias and many other notable Christian apologists, no. People are hypersensitive to everything these days and project meanings that aren't there.

Cultural - its always been there. However, it used to be that immigrants became American and embraced our culture rather than insisting they keep theirs to the exclusion of ours. That contributes to the problem.

Racial - yes and no. In many areas and occupations its no big deal. Yet the media, social media and politicians fuel it incessantly which means it will never stop festering. Yes there are still problems and likely always will be. Obama fueled it with his actions and so has Trump with his rhetoric.

Ethnic - Disagree to a point. I grew up in an area which was very diverse. The only problem was with some bringing in workers from other countries because they could pay them s***e wages. Many in the tech industry were laid off so corporations could pay much lower salaries to overseas workers and a lot of them brought in people from overseas and helped them get their green cards. They employed them rather than the US workers because it was much cheaper. It used to be when people came here they embraced America and didn't ask for special considerations. That has changed.

Educational - I'd say some if the bias against 'eggheads' is justified. Many never venture out of the cocoon of academia and it shows. I don't know as its distrust of people with college degrees but a growing realization that it doesn't make them smarter or more capable than anyone else nor does it make one wise.

Occupational - Yes this is bad. So many things are outsourced overseas as well. Its all for $$$. Companies used to take care of their employees so then the employees took care of the customers. People used to stay with the same company until retirement. That has changed.

Nit picking but I'd pair conservative with liberal, not progressive.

As for news, we can't overlook the plethora of activist journalists that also lean left. Journalism has become infested with activists on both sides.

Just some thoughts - not all disagreement.
Economic faultline - There is also a category of u... (show quote)


Rose you hit that nail right on the head, and I for one have to agree with you. Everything that you say I have seen with my own eyes since the early "60's" but this has been going on far longer than that, way back to the founding of our country all the way to the fall of Adam and Eve.

Reply
Apr 5, 2020 15:01:47   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
Rose42 wrote:
Economic faultline - There is also a category of uber rich who control the Fed and basically look out for their own interests - making more money - at the expense of the rest of us. The gap of rich and poor has always been there and will always be there.

Religious intolerance - yes and no. Westboro Baptist type 'Christians' yes. The types that are more like Ravi Zacharias and many other notable Christian apologists, no. People are hypersensitive to everything these days and project meanings that aren't there.

Cultural - its always been there. However, it used to be that immigrants became American and embraced our culture rather than insisting they keep theirs to the exclusion of ours. That contributes to the problem.

Racial - yes and no. In many areas and occupations its no big deal. Yet the media, social media and politicians fuel it incessantly which means it will never stop festering. Yes there are still problems and likely always will be. Obama fueled it with his actions and so has Trump with his rhetoric.

Ethnic - Disagree to a point. I grew up in an area which was very diverse. The only problem was with some bringing in workers from other countries because they could pay them s***e wages. Many in the tech industry were laid off so corporations could pay much lower salaries to overseas workers and a lot of them brought in people from overseas and helped them get their green cards. They employed them rather than the US workers because it was much cheaper. It used to be when people came here they embraced America and didn't ask for special considerations. That has changed.

Educational - I'd say some if the bias against 'eggheads' is justified. Many never venture out of the cocoon of academia and it shows. I don't know as its distrust of people with college degrees but a growing realization that it doesn't make them smarter or more capable than anyone else nor does it make one wise.

Occupational - Yes this is bad. So many things are outsourced overseas as well. Its all for $$$. Companies used to take care of their employees so then the employees took care of the customers. People used to stay with the same company until retirement. That has changed.

Nit picking but I'd pair conservative with liberal, not progressive.

As for news, we can't overlook the plethora of activist journalists that also lean left. Journalism has become infested with activists on both sides.

Just some thoughts - not all disagreement.
Economic faultline - There is also a category of u... (show quote)


Thanks, Rose ... points well taken. I possibly oversimplified the faultlines. But my experience has been as I have stated. Of course, I haven't experienced the full range of each one.
But thank you for sharing.

Reply
Apr 5, 2020 15:05:18   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
Rose42 wrote:
Economic faultline - There is also a category of uber rich who control the Fed and basically look out for their own interests - making more money - at the expense of the rest of us. The gap of rich and poor has always been there and will always be there.

Religious intolerance - yes and no. Westboro Baptist type 'Christians' yes. The types that are more like Ravi Zacharias and many other notable Christian apologists, no. People are hypersensitive to everything these days and project meanings that aren't there.

Cultural - its always been there. However, it used to be that immigrants became American and embraced our culture rather than insisting they keep theirs to the exclusion of ours. That contributes to the problem.

Racial - yes and no. In many areas and occupations its no big deal. Yet the media, social media and politicians fuel it incessantly which means it will never stop festering. Yes there are still problems and likely always will be. Obama fueled it with his actions and so has Trump with his rhetoric.

Ethnic - Disagree to a point. I grew up in an area which was very diverse. The only problem was with some bringing in workers from other countries because they could pay them s***e wages. Many in the tech industry were laid off so corporations could pay much lower salaries to overseas workers and a lot of them brought in people from overseas and helped them get their green cards. They employed them rather than the US workers because it was much cheaper. It used to be when people came here they embraced America and didn't ask for special considerations. That has changed.

Educational - I'd say some if the bias against 'eggheads' is justified. Many never venture out of the cocoon of academia and it shows. I don't know as its distrust of people with college degrees but a growing realization that it doesn't make them smarter or more capable than anyone else nor does it make one wise.

Occupational - Yes this is bad. So many things are outsourced overseas as well. Its all for $$$. Companies used to take care of their employees so then the employees took care of the customers. People used to stay with the same company until retirement. That has changed.

Nit picking but I'd pair conservative with liberal, not progressive.

As for news, we can't overlook the plethora of activist journalists that also lean left. Journalism has become infested with activists on both sides.

Just some thoughts - not all disagreement.
Economic faultline - There is also a category of u... (show quote)




Excellent summation! Fair and honest IMHO!

Reply
 
 
Apr 5, 2020 15:17:25   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
whitnebrat wrote:
Thanks, Rose ... points well taken. I possibly oversimplified the faultlines. But my experience has been as I have stated. Of course, I haven't experienced the full range of each one.
But thank you for sharing.


My problem is you stating that your comments were facts and could not be disputed. A fact must be provable in some way.......generalized statements are also a problem! If you had of said that this was your life experience, there would have been no disputing that statement. In my opinion!

Reply
Apr 5, 2020 15:18:00   #
Rose42
 
whitnebrat wrote:
Thanks, Rose ... points well taken. I possibly oversimplified the faultlines. But my experience has been as I have stated. Of course, I haven't experienced the full range of each one.
But thank you for sharing.


I don't think your bullet points are oversimplified but more like highlights. Each one you presented could easily be a huge discussion on its own. Yours is a good synopsis of some of the problems we face IMO.

Reply
Apr 5, 2020 15:45:16   #
Voice of Reason Loc: Earth
 
whitnebrat wrote:
Many of you will see who the poster is for this, and won't even bother to read it. Others will read it and blow it off. This post will generate a lot of flak and blowback. The statements will be disputed and the messenger will be flamed (as is usually the case). However, the facts and conclusions cannot be disputed (even though there will be attempts to do so). I speak in generalities, and many conservatives will disagree in high dudgeon, saying that it doesn't apply to them (although many of the conclusions indeed do and they won't admit it.)

There are a number of faultlines that are fracturing our republic. I say a number of them, because they (like earthquake faults) interact with each other to become a social chasm that is growing deeper by the day.

Let me enumerate some of these faultlines:
1.) Economic faultline. The upper 5% of our society control or own 95% of the total wealth of the country. This means that the average joe is just getting along while the upper elite is lavishing the good life on one another.
2.) Religious faultline. Religious intolerance is gaining steam, inciting hatred and distrust among factions that have led to violence and murder.
3.) Cultural faultline. A subset in many ways of the religious one, it tends to marginalize minorities (sexual, ethnic, religious, racial) and create dissension and physical violence in many ways.
4.) Racial faultline. This one has been in our culture (even though we try not to admit it) since the 1600's … amplified by the Civil War and Reconstruction. While there have been efforts to suppress it over the years, it has never gone away and is resurging with a vehemence.
5.)Ethnic faultline. It's "them" that are taking our jobs, and making our society less homogeneous. "The Moslems are the work of the devil," etc.
6.) Educational faultline. Bias against 'eggheads' has always been a factor on our society. Arrogance by "professionals" and corporate management against ordinary workers adds to the mix. Anti-intellectualism is on the rise again in this culture. Distrust of anyone with a college education is on the rise.
7.) Occupational faultline. This one is bad and getting worse. Lots of jobs that didn't require a college degree have been lost and those that are coming back, are being automated to a fare-thee-well. A company that makes widgets that used to employ 600 people now hires 60 employees and four dozen robots to make the same widget. That other 540 people now compete for the only remaining jobs that they are qualified for with thousands of others in the same boat. Since many people valued themselves by their income and job description, the loss of self-esteem is incalculable.

While these various faultlines fall on various people with varying results, there are some uniting values.

Conservative Progressive
Lower average income Higher average income
More religious Lower religious affiliations
More culturally strict More libertarian
Less racially diverse More racially diverse
Less ethnically diverse More ethnically diverse
Lower average education Higher average education
Lower sk**l sets for Higher average sk**l set for
manufacturing manufacturing
Single-sources news input Acquires information from a
from conservative variety of sources.
outlets

With these divergences in faultlines, and with these divides growing worse, what future does this hold for our country?
Do we want to be a mono-cultural, mono-theistic, single ethnicity society? Or do we want to become a dynamic society using the sk**ls and inputs of a multitude of people of varying abilities, religions and cultures?
It is up to us to decide. I hope we make the correct choice.
Many of you will see who the poster is for this, a... (show quote)


So if progressives are smarter, are more educated and enjoy higher, unequal incomes that means they are responsible for all the problems you noted.

Reply
Apr 5, 2020 23:29:00   #
whitnebrat Loc: In the wilds of Oregon
 
Voice of Reason wrote:
So if progressives are smarter, are more educated and enjoy higher, unequal incomes that means they are responsible for all the problems you noted.


Your logic is impeccable if flawed, but you are leaving out an important factor that didn't bear on the subject that I posted about.
The ratio of birth rate v.s. intelligence is inversely proportional. The more intelligent the family, the fewer average children they have. Therefore there will be (on average) far more worker bees than intelligentsia in any population distribution. This means that the people that v**e for politicians and issues skew predominately to the conservative side of the curve if you accept my breakdown of the factors (which you probably don't.)
The e*****rate at large is responsible for electing politicians who put in place the wrongheaded policies that affect the entire nation ... I'm not saying that liberals/progressives are responsible ... we all are for electing charismatic i***ts instead of people that can manage the governmental systems effectively.

Reply
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