One Political Plaza - Home of politics
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Faith, Religion, Spirituality
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why -
Page 1 of 2 next>
Apr 1, 2020 10:32:04   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why - Understanding the Book of Job

People have been questioning why suffering occurs for almost as long as humanity has existed.

Job is one of my favorite Old Testament books, for in addition to being the oldest book in the Bible, it illustrates the ancient eternal truth that it is our knowledge and worship of God that gives man his greatest joy in life.

It is not the personal accumulation of possessions or worldly power or indulgence in hedonistic pleasure.

It is commonly presumed that Genesis was the oldest book in the Bible as it details the creation of the world. The oldest book in the Bible, however, is right in the middle of the Old Testament. It is the Book of Job, estimated to have been written in the time of the Patriarchs, between 1900 and 1700 B.C..

Job is written in a form of Hebrew called “Paleo-Hebrew” that is older than the ancient Hebrew that makes up most of the Old Testament. The book also contains Syriac and Arabic expressions which point to a period of time between 1900 and 1700 B.C. when the Shemitic tribes had not yet separated into speaking separate Syriac, Hebrew and Arabic dialects. Instead, they still shared a common language.

The faithful man Job lived in the "land of Uz" (Job 1:1). The first appearance of the name Uz in Scripture is the son of Aram, the grandson of Shem, and great grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:22; 1 Chronicles 1:17).

In addition to using a language that differs from the Hebrew used in other Old Testament manuscripts, Job also mentions several creatures and conditions that are unknown today. The phrases may refer to animals that became extinct or, more likely, were called by a different name in the later books of the Bible.

The age of the book of Job can also be found in what is noticeably missing from the book. There are no mentions of the covenant, the Law of Moses or the priesthood. There are not even any mentions of the Israelite people or the Promised Land. Instead, Job offers sacrifices himself for his sons without the use of a priesthood, temple or consecrated altar. His wealth is measured by the size of his herds and the amount of “qesiytah,” unique silver coins, he possesses. Both herds and silver were used as ancient systems of money between 1900 and 1700 B.C. The names of Job’s sons were also uncommon in later time periods but were common before and during the time of the patriarchs.

While the early chapters of Genesis cover events that happened before Job, the actual written accounts of those events were not recorded until after the book of Job had already been composed. In fact, Job is over 400 years older than Genesis. This means Job is not only the sole drama in the Bible but also the oldest book by far.

Unlike the rest of the Bible, Job is written not as prose or poetry but as a drama. In the book, an angel in God’s court, Satan, challenges God that Job is pious only because he has a good, comfortable life. God declares that Job will not give up his faith and curse God despite terrible things befalling him. God accepts Satan's challenge, and wins the wager, for Job suffers loss of health and every manner of personal tragedy but still clings to his faith, after which God restores to Job what he has lost and further blesses him.

Everyone knows that God exists.

All people desire to know their Creator, even if they are not professed believers in God for God has made it evident to mankind that He is real.

"for since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" (Romans 1:19-20).

When God steps in, as in the book of Job, He does not explain why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not possibly understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried ...

It begins with a challenge. God points out how righteous and blameless Job is. Satan claims Job is only good because God gives him wealth and health. He says that God is not loved for Himself, but that He is only making mercenaries (known as soldiers of fortune, individuals who takes part in military conflicts for personal profit).

Like us, the historical characters in Job are totally unaware of what is going on behind the scenes and they spend most of their time speculating on why God was allowing Job to suffer so many evils.

When God steps in, He does not tell them why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of His creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are, even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried — and he certainly could not take over the controls even if he wanted to.

God describes Behemoth and Leviathan and tells Job that even these are on His leash.

The human characters were all assuming that somehow the world has to be "fair" if God is just. God shows them this fallen world is not fair, He does not run it on fairness - instead, He governs the flawed cosmos in wisdom.
"This is what the LORD says: “Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches,
but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,” declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 9:23-24)

Through it all, Job never complained of the loss of his wealth or health, what he really wanted was his relationship with God. And though he had moments of doubt, he also continued to trust - "Though He slay me, YET will I trust him." (Job 13:15). And when God appears in a theophany (a visible (but not necessarily material) manifestation of Deity) , Job stops asking why these things had happened, "Now my eyes have seen Thee." Job is satisfied.

Then God restores all things to Job, more than he had before. Not as a reward for passing some test, but simply as an unmerited gift of His grace.

In the end, that great dragon — the true Leviathan — the Devil, is shown to be wrong. God is loving and He is righteous. People love Him for Himself and not just for the things He can give them.

Job, famously foresaw through faith, his Messiah/Redeemer's visitation upon earth two thousand years in the future:

"Oh that my words were written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book! Oh that with an iron pen and lead they were engraved in the rock forever! For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

I came across a great quote that says it all, whenever we think we can run things better than God. It comes from a 19th century Frenchman who was renowned for his oratorical skills. His name was J.M.L. Monsabre, and he said,

"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are.”

Wisdom, let us pay heed!


Christian Renaissance
David Hawthorne
Got Questions

Reply
Apr 1, 2020 10:41:19   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why - Understanding the Book of Job

People have been questioning why suffering occurs for almost as long as humanity has existed.

Job is one of my favorite Old Testament books, for in addition to being the oldest book in the Bible, it illustrates the ancient eternal truth that it is our knowledge and worship of God that gives man his greatest joy in life.

It is not the personal accumulation of possessions or worldly power or indulgence in hedonistic pleasure.

It is commonly presumed that Genesis was the oldest book in the Bible as it details the creation of the world. The oldest book in the Bible, however, is right in the middle of the Old Testament. It is the Book of Job, estimated to have been written in the time of the Patriarchs, between 1900 and 1700 B.C..

Job is written in a form of Hebrew called “Paleo-Hebrew” that is older than the ancient Hebrew that makes up most of the Old Testament. The book also contains Syriac and Arabic expressions which point to a period of time between 1900 and 1700 B.C. when the Shemitic tribes had not yet separated into speaking separate Syriac, Hebrew and Arabic dialects. Instead, they still shared a common language.

The faithful man Job lived in the "land of Uz" (Job 1:1). The first appearance of the name Uz in Scripture is the son of Aram, the grandson of Shem, and great grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:22; 1 Chronicles 1:17).

In addition to using a language that differs from the Hebrew used in other Old Testament manuscripts, Job also mentions several creatures and conditions that are unknown today. The phrases may refer to animals that became extinct or, more likely, were called by a different name in the later books of the Bible.

The age of the book of Job can also be found in what is noticeably missing from the book. There are no mentions of the covenant, the Law of Moses or the priesthood. There are not even any mentions of the Israelite people or the Promised Land. Instead, Job offers sacrifices himself for his sons without the use of a priesthood, temple or consecrated altar. His wealth is measured by the size of his herds and the amount of “qesiytah,” unique silver coins, he possesses. Both herds and silver were used as ancient systems of money between 1900 and 1700 B.C. The names of Job’s sons were also uncommon in later time periods but were common before and during the time of the patriarchs.

While the early chapters of Genesis cover events that happened before Job, the actual written accounts of those events were not recorded until after the book of Job had already been composed. In fact, Job is over 400 years older than Genesis. This means Job is not only the sole drama in the Bible but also the oldest book by far.

Unlike the rest of the Bible, Job is written not as prose or poetry but as a drama. In the book, an angel in God’s court, Satan, challenges God that Job is pious only because he has a good, comfortable life. God declares that Job will not give up his faith and curse God despite terrible things befalling him. God accepts Satan's challenge, and wins the wager, for Job suffers loss of health and every manner of personal tragedy but still clings to his faith, after which God restores to Job what he has lost and further blesses him.

Everyone knows that God exists.

All people desire to know their Creator, even if they are not professed believers in God for God has made it evident to mankind that He is real.

"for since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" (Romans 1:19-20).

When God steps in, as in the book of Job, He does not explain why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not possibly understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried ...

It begins with a challenge. God points out how righteous and blameless Job is. Satan claims Job is only good because God gives him wealth and health. He says that God is not loved for Himself, but that He is only making mercenaries (known as soldiers of fortune, individuals who takes part in military conflicts for personal profit).

Like us, the historical characters in Job are totally unaware of what is going on behind the scenes and they spend most of their time speculating on why God was allowing Job to suffer so many evils.

When God steps in, He does not tell them why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of His creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are, even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried — and he certainly could not take over the controls even if he wanted to.

God describes Behemoth and Leviathan and tells Job that even these are on His leash.

The human characters were all assuming that somehow the world has to be "fair" if God is just. God shows them this fallen world is not fair, He does not run it on fairness - instead, He governs the flawed cosmos in wisdom.
"This is what the LORD says: “Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches,
but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,” declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 9:23-24)

Through it all, Job never complained of the loss of his wealth or health, what he really wanted was his relationship with God. And though he had moments of doubt, he also continued to trust - "Though He slay me, YET will I trust him." (Job 13:15). And when God appears in a theophany (a visible (but not necessarily material) manifestation of Deity) , Job stops asking why these things had happened, "Now my eyes have seen Thee." Job is satisfied.

Then God restores all things to Job, more than he had before. Not as a reward for passing some test, but simply as an unmerited gift of His grace.

In the end, that great dragon — the true Leviathan — the Devil, is shown to be wrong. God is loving and He is righteous. People love Him for Himself and not just for the things He can give them.

Job, famously foresaw through faith, his Messiah/Redeemer's visitation upon earth two thousand years in the future:

"Oh that my words were written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book! Oh that with an iron pen and lead they were engraved in the rock forever! For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

I came across a great quote that says it all, whenever we think we can run things better than God. It comes from a 19th century Frenchman who was renowned for his oratorical skills. His name was J.M.L. Monsabre, and he said,

"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are.”

Wisdom, let us pay heed!


Christian Renaissance
David Hawthorne
Got Questions
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why ... (show quote)


Good article...

I'm not aware that God ALLOWS anyone to suffer....

Life us as it is... Until it isn't... Amen...


Glad you are well... You have been missed....

Stay strong... God bless.....

Reply
Apr 1, 2020 10:46:04   #
Quakerwidow Loc: Chestertown, MD
 
Amen.

Reply
 
 
Apr 1, 2020 10:49:22   #
manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA
 
The question for today is how many of us could stand the tribulations of Job and emerge still in love with God?

Reply
Apr 1, 2020 11:27:13   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Thanks, Canuckus,

Do you mean until life changes? ...for there will never be a time for us, all the living, in this world or the next, when life ceases (when it isn't)?

God is all powerful, - only in the sense that He has not actively prevented it, has He allowed it.

Many of the acts of man, through the free will allotted him, are not the will of God, BUT He can and does weave and work them to His will.

"And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose." (Romans 8:28)


Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Good article...

I'm not aware that God ALLOWS anyone to suffer....

Life us as it is... Until it isn't... Amen...


Glad you are well... You have been missed....

Stay strong... God bless.....

Reply
Apr 1, 2020 11:35:44   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Hi manning, - within our own strength, none of us, only through the strength that He provides.

"For this reason, take up the whole armor of God so that you may be able to take a stand whenever evil comes. And when you have done everything you could, you will be able to stand firm." (Ephesians 6:13)


manning5 wrote:
The question for today is how many of us could stand the tribulations of Job and emerge still in love with God?

Reply
Apr 1, 2020 19:04:25   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
Thanks, Canuckus,

Do you mean until life changes? ...for there will never be a time for us, all the living, in this world or the next, when life ceases (when it isn't)?

God is all powerful, - only in the sense that He has not actively prevented it, has He allowed it.

Many of the acts of man, through the free will allotted him, are not the will of God, BUT He can and does weave and work them to His will.

"And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose." (Romans 8:28)
Thanks, Canuckus, br br Do you mean until life ch... (show quote)


I meant that we live until we die... And then receive a new life...

Reply
 
 
Apr 1, 2020 19:27:03   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
Zemirah wrote:
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why - Understanding the Book of Job

People have been questioning why suffering occurs for almost as long as humanity has existed.

Job is one of my favorite Old Testament books, for in addition to being the oldest book in the Bible, it illustrates the ancient eternal truth that it is our knowledge and worship of God that gives man his greatest joy in life.

It is not the personal accumulation of possessions or worldly power or indulgence in hedonistic pleasure.

It is commonly presumed that Genesis was the oldest book in the Bible as it details the creation of the world. The oldest book in the Bible, however, is right in the middle of the Old Testament. It is the Book of Job, estimated to have been written in the time of the Patriarchs, between 1900 and 1700 B.C..

Job is written in a form of Hebrew called “Paleo-Hebrew” that is older than the ancient Hebrew that makes up most of the Old Testament. The book also contains Syriac and Arabic expressions which point to a period of time between 1900 and 1700 B.C. when the Shemitic tribes had not yet separated into speaking separate Syriac, Hebrew and Arabic dialects. Instead, they still shared a common language.

The faithful man Job lived in the "land of Uz" (Job 1:1). The first appearance of the name Uz in Scripture is the son of Aram, the grandson of Shem, and great grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:22; 1 Chronicles 1:17).

In addition to using a language that differs from the Hebrew used in other Old Testament manuscripts, Job also mentions several creatures and conditions that are unknown today. The phrases may refer to animals that became extinct or, more likely, were called by a different name in the later books of the Bible.

The age of the book of Job can also be found in what is noticeably missing from the book. There are no mentions of the covenant, the Law of Moses or the priesthood. There are not even any mentions of the Israelite people or the Promised Land. Instead, Job offers sacrifices himself for his sons without the use of a priesthood, temple or consecrated altar. His wealth is measured by the size of his herds and the amount of “qesiytah,” unique silver coins, he possesses. Both herds and silver were used as ancient systems of money between 1900 and 1700 B.C. The names of Job’s sons were also uncommon in later time periods but were common before and during the time of the patriarchs.

While the early chapters of Genesis cover events that happened before Job, the actual written accounts of those events were not recorded until after the book of Job had already been composed. In fact, Job is over 400 years older than Genesis. This means Job is not only the sole drama in the Bible but also the oldest book by far.

Unlike the rest of the Bible, Job is written not as prose or poetry but as a drama. In the book, an angel in God’s court, Satan, challenges God that Job is pious only because he has a good, comfortable life. God declares that Job will not give up his faith and curse God despite terrible things befalling him. God accepts Satan's challenge, and wins the wager, for Job suffers loss of health and every manner of personal tragedy but still clings to his faith, after which God restores to Job what he has lost and further blesses him.

Everyone knows that God exists.

All people desire to know their Creator, even if they are not professed believers in God for God has made it evident to mankind that He is real.

"for since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" (Romans 1:19-20).

When God steps in, as in the book of Job, He does not explain why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not possibly understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried ...

It begins with a challenge. God points out how righteous and blameless Job is. Satan claims Job is only good because God gives him wealth and health. He says that God is not loved for Himself, but that He is only making mercenaries (known as soldiers of fortune, individuals who takes part in military conflicts for personal profit).

Like us, the historical characters in Job are totally unaware of what is going on behind the scenes and they spend most of their time speculating on why God was allowing Job to suffer so many evils.

When God steps in, He does not tell them why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of His creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are, even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried — and he certainly could not take over the controls even if he wanted to.

God describes Behemoth and Leviathan and tells Job that even these are on His leash.

The human characters were all assuming that somehow the world has to be "fair" if God is just. God shows them this fallen world is not fair, He does not run it on fairness - instead, He governs the flawed cosmos in wisdom.
"This is what the LORD says: “Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches,
but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,” declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 9:23-24)

Through it all, Job never complained of the loss of his wealth or health, what he really wanted was his relationship with God. And though he had moments of doubt, he also continued to trust - "Though He slay me, YET will I trust him." (Job 13:15). And when God appears in a theophany (a visible (but not necessarily material) manifestation of Deity) , Job stops asking why these things had happened, "Now my eyes have seen Thee." Job is satisfied.

Then God restores all things to Job, more than he had before. Not as a reward for passing some test, but simply as an unmerited gift of His grace.

In the end, that great dragon — the true Leviathan — the Devil, is shown to be wrong. God is loving and He is righteous. People love Him for Himself and not just for the things He can give them.

Job, famously foresaw through faith, his Messiah/Redeemer's visitation upon earth two thousand years in the future:

"Oh that my words were written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book! Oh that with an iron pen and lead they were engraved in the rock forever! For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

I came across a great quote that says it all, whenever we think we can run things better than God. It comes from a 19th century Frenchman who was renowned for his oratorical skills. His name was J.M.L. Monsabre, and he said,

"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are.”

Wisdom, let us pay heed!


Christian Renaissance
David Hawthorne
Got Questions
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why ... (show quote)





There you are! 🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂

That article couldn’t have been any more perfectly timed! The anti-God people have always used Job’s tragedy to attempt to place doubt about God’s love and faithfulness to His children. Now is the time to praise God and trust Him even more!

I am relieved to see this post!

Stay safe and God Bless my friend!
Bel

Reply
Apr 1, 2020 23:01:25   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
It is through the trials of life that we deepen our faith and grow stronger.

When Christianity is unopposed, we grow lukewarm and complacent, just as the Laodicean church in this final church age is described as doing in Revelation 3:14-22.

I hope you're doing well!


TexaCan wrote:
There you are! 🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂

That article couldn’t have been any more perfectly timed! The anti-God people have always used Job’s tragedy to attempt to place doubt about God’s love and faithfulness to His children. Now is the time to praise God and trust Him even more!

I am relieved to see this post!

Stay safe and God Bless my friend!
Bel

Reply
Apr 2, 2020 10:30:52   #
bahmer
 
Zemirah wrote:
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why - Understanding the Book of Job

People have been questioning why suffering occurs for almost as long as humanity has existed.

Job is one of my favorite Old Testament books, for in addition to being the oldest book in the Bible, it illustrates the ancient eternal truth that it is our knowledge and worship of God that gives man his greatest joy in life.

It is not the personal accumulation of possessions or worldly power or indulgence in hedonistic pleasure.

It is commonly presumed that Genesis was the oldest book in the Bible as it details the creation of the world. The oldest book in the Bible, however, is right in the middle of the Old Testament. It is the Book of Job, estimated to have been written in the time of the Patriarchs, between 1900 and 1700 B.C..

Job is written in a form of Hebrew called “Paleo-Hebrew” that is older than the ancient Hebrew that makes up most of the Old Testament. The book also contains Syriac and Arabic expressions which point to a period of time between 1900 and 1700 B.C. when the Shemitic tribes had not yet separated into speaking separate Syriac, Hebrew and Arabic dialects. Instead, they still shared a common language.

The faithful man Job lived in the "land of Uz" (Job 1:1). The first appearance of the name Uz in Scripture is the son of Aram, the grandson of Shem, and great grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:22; 1 Chronicles 1:17).

In addition to using a language that differs from the Hebrew used in other Old Testament manuscripts, Job also mentions several creatures and conditions that are unknown today. The phrases may refer to animals that became extinct or, more likely, were called by a different name in the later books of the Bible.

The age of the book of Job can also be found in what is noticeably missing from the book. There are no mentions of the covenant, the Law of Moses or the priesthood. There are not even any mentions of the Israelite people or the Promised Land. Instead, Job offers sacrifices himself for his sons without the use of a priesthood, temple or consecrated altar. His wealth is measured by the size of his herds and the amount of “qesiytah,” unique silver coins, he possesses. Both herds and silver were used as ancient systems of money between 1900 and 1700 B.C. The names of Job’s sons were also uncommon in later time periods but were common before and during the time of the patriarchs.

While the early chapters of Genesis cover events that happened before Job, the actual written accounts of those events were not recorded until after the book of Job had already been composed. In fact, Job is over 400 years older than Genesis. This means Job is not only the sole drama in the Bible but also the oldest book by far.

Unlike the rest of the Bible, Job is written not as prose or poetry but as a drama. In the book, an angel in God’s court, Satan, challenges God that Job is pious only because he has a good, comfortable life. God declares that Job will not give up his faith and curse God despite terrible things befalling him. God accepts Satan's challenge, and wins the wager, for Job suffers loss of health and every manner of personal tragedy but still clings to his faith, after which God restores to Job what he has lost and further blesses him.

Everyone knows that God exists.

All people desire to know their Creator, even if they are not professed believers in God for God has made it evident to mankind that He is real.

"for since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" (Romans 1:19-20).

When God steps in, as in the book of Job, He does not explain why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not possibly understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried ...

It begins with a challenge. God points out how righteous and blameless Job is. Satan claims Job is only good because God gives him wealth and health. He says that God is not loved for Himself, but that He is only making mercenaries (known as soldiers of fortune, individuals who takes part in military conflicts for personal profit).

Like us, the historical characters in Job are totally unaware of what is going on behind the scenes and they spend most of their time speculating on why God was allowing Job to suffer so many evils.

When God steps in, He does not tell them why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of His creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are, even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried — and he certainly could not take over the controls even if he wanted to.

God describes Behemoth and Leviathan and tells Job that even these are on His leash.

The human characters were all assuming that somehow the world has to be "fair" if God is just. God shows them this fallen world is not fair, He does not run it on fairness - instead, He governs the flawed cosmos in wisdom.
"This is what the LORD says: “Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches,
but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,” declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 9:23-24)

Through it all, Job never complained of the loss of his wealth or health, what he really wanted was his relationship with God. And though he had moments of doubt, he also continued to trust - "Though He slay me, YET will I trust him." (Job 13:15). And when God appears in a theophany (a visible (but not necessarily material) manifestation of Deity) , Job stops asking why these things had happened, "Now my eyes have seen Thee." Job is satisfied.

Then God restores all things to Job, more than he had before. Not as a reward for passing some test, but simply as an unmerited gift of His grace.

In the end, that great dragon — the true Leviathan — the Devil, is shown to be wrong. God is loving and He is righteous. People love Him for Himself and not just for the things He can give them.

Job, famously foresaw through faith, his Messiah/Redeemer's visitation upon earth two thousand years in the future:

"Oh that my words were written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book! Oh that with an iron pen and lead they were engraved in the rock forever! For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

I came across a great quote that says it all, whenever we think we can run things better than God. It comes from a 19th century Frenchman who was renowned for his oratorical skills. His name was J.M.L. Monsabre, and he said,

"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are.”

Wisdom, let us pay heed!


Christian Renaissance
David Hawthorne
Got Questions
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why ... (show quote)


Amen and Amen thanks for this article there Zemirah.👍👍👍👍👍

Reply
Apr 2, 2020 12:49:46   #
Armageddun Loc: The show me state
 
Zemirah wrote:
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why - Understanding the Book of Job

People have been questioning why suffering occurs for almost as long as humanity has existed.

Job is one of my favorite Old Testament books, for in addition to being the oldest book in the Bible, it illustrates the ancient eternal truth that it is our knowledge and worship of God that gives man his greatest joy in life.

It is not the personal accumulation of possessions or worldly power or indulgence in hedonistic pleasure.

It is commonly presumed that Genesis was the oldest book in the Bible as it details the creation of the world. The oldest book in the Bible, however, is right in the middle of the Old Testament. It is the Book of Job, estimated to have been written in the time of the Patriarchs, between 1900 and 1700 B.C..

Job is written in a form of Hebrew called “Paleo-Hebrew” that is older than the ancient Hebrew that makes up most of the Old Testament. The book also contains Syriac and Arabic expressions which point to a period of time between 1900 and 1700 B.C. when the Shemitic tribes had not yet separated into speaking separate Syriac, Hebrew and Arabic dialects. Instead, they still shared a common language.

The faithful man Job lived in the "land of Uz" (Job 1:1). The first appearance of the name Uz in Scripture is the son of Aram, the grandson of Shem, and great grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:22; 1 Chronicles 1:17).

In addition to using a language that differs from the Hebrew used in other Old Testament manuscripts, Job also mentions several creatures and conditions that are unknown today. The phrases may refer to animals that became extinct or, more likely, were called by a different name in the later books of the Bible.

The age of the book of Job can also be found in what is noticeably missing from the book. There are no mentions of the covenant, the Law of Moses or the priesthood. There are not even any mentions of the Israelite people or the Promised Land. Instead, Job offers sacrifices himself for his sons without the use of a priesthood, temple or consecrated altar. His wealth is measured by the size of his herds and the amount of “qesiytah,” unique silver coins, he possesses. Both herds and silver were used as ancient systems of money between 1900 and 1700 B.C. The names of Job’s sons were also uncommon in later time periods but were common before and during the time of the patriarchs.

While the early chapters of Genesis cover events that happened before Job, the actual written accounts of those events were not recorded until after the book of Job had already been composed. In fact, Job is over 400 years older than Genesis. This means Job is not only the sole drama in the Bible but also the oldest book by far.

Unlike the rest of the Bible, Job is written not as prose or poetry but as a drama. In the book, an angel in God’s court, Satan, challenges God that Job is pious only because he has a good, comfortable life. God declares that Job will not give up his faith and curse God despite terrible things befalling him. God accepts Satan's challenge, and wins the wager, for Job suffers loss of health and every manner of personal tragedy but still clings to his faith, after which God restores to Job what he has lost and further blesses him.

Everyone knows that God exists.

All people desire to know their Creator, even if they are not professed believers in God for God has made it evident to mankind that He is real.

"for since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" (Romans 1:19-20).

When God steps in, as in the book of Job, He does not explain why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not possibly understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried ...

It begins with a challenge. God points out how righteous and blameless Job is. Satan claims Job is only good because God gives him wealth and health. He says that God is not loved for Himself, but that He is only making mercenaries (known as soldiers of fortune, individuals who takes part in military conflicts for personal profit).

Like us, the historical characters in Job are totally unaware of what is going on behind the scenes and they spend most of their time speculating on why God was allowing Job to suffer so many evils.

When God steps in, He does not tell them why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of His creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are, even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried — and he certainly could not take over the controls even if he wanted to.

God describes Behemoth and Leviathan and tells Job that even these are on His leash.

The human characters were all assuming that somehow the world has to be "fair" if God is just. God shows them this fallen world is not fair, He does not run it on fairness - instead, He governs the flawed cosmos in wisdom.
"This is what the LORD says: “Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches,
but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,” declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 9:23-24)

Through it all, Job never complained of the loss of his wealth or health, what he really wanted was his relationship with God. And though he had moments of doubt, he also continued to trust - "Though He slay me, YET will I trust him." (Job 13:15). And when God appears in a theophany (a visible (but not necessarily material) manifestation of Deity) , Job stops asking why these things had happened, "Now my eyes have seen Thee." Job is satisfied.

Then God restores all things to Job, more than he had before. Not as a reward for passing some test, but simply as an unmerited gift of His grace.

In the end, that great dragon — the true Leviathan — the Devil, is shown to be wrong. God is loving and He is righteous. People love Him for Himself and not just for the things He can give them.

Job, famously foresaw through faith, his Messiah/Redeemer's visitation upon earth two thousand years in the future:

"Oh that my words were written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book! Oh that with an iron pen and lead they were engraved in the rock forever! For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

I came across a great quote that says it all, whenever we think we can run things better than God. It comes from a 19th century Frenchman who was renowned for his oratorical skills. His name was J.M.L. Monsabre, and he said,

"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are.”

Wisdom, let us pay heed!


Christian Renaissance
David Hawthorne
Got Questions
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why ... (show quote)


Amen, This brought out in my mind at least the thought of fairness. We Americans especially dwell on what is fair. Different people have their own idea of fairness, what is fair to the rich often seems unfair to the poor. What seems fair to the whites are often seen as unfair to those who may be brown, black, red, or yellow.

That is why God is Just He sees beyond fairness and honors truth. I love the Frenchman's quote.

Reply
 
 
Apr 2, 2020 13:11:54   #
Rose42
 
Zemirah wrote:
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why - Understanding the Book of Job

People have been questioning why suffering occurs for almost as long as humanity has existed.

Job is one of my favorite Old Testament books, for in addition to being the oldest book in the Bible, it illustrates the ancient eternal truth that it is our knowledge and worship of God that gives man his greatest joy in life.

It is not the personal accumulation of possessions or worldly power or indulgence in hedonistic pleasure.

It is commonly presumed that Genesis was the oldest book in the Bible as it details the creation of the world. The oldest book in the Bible, however, is right in the middle of the Old Testament. It is the Book of Job, estimated to have been written in the time of the Patriarchs, between 1900 and 1700 B.C..

Job is written in a form of Hebrew called “Paleo-Hebrew” that is older than the ancient Hebrew that makes up most of the Old Testament. The book also contains Syriac and Arabic expressions which point to a period of time between 1900 and 1700 B.C. when the Shemitic tribes had not yet separated into speaking separate Syriac, Hebrew and Arabic dialects. Instead, they still shared a common language.

The faithful man Job lived in the "land of Uz" (Job 1:1). The first appearance of the name Uz in Scripture is the son of Aram, the grandson of Shem, and great grandson of Noah (Genesis 10:22; 1 Chronicles 1:17).

In addition to using a language that differs from the Hebrew used in other Old Testament manuscripts, Job also mentions several creatures and conditions that are unknown today. The phrases may refer to animals that became extinct or, more likely, were called by a different name in the later books of the Bible.

The age of the book of Job can also be found in what is noticeably missing from the book. There are no mentions of the covenant, the Law of Moses or the priesthood. There are not even any mentions of the Israelite people or the Promised Land. Instead, Job offers sacrifices himself for his sons without the use of a priesthood, temple or consecrated altar. His wealth is measured by the size of his herds and the amount of “qesiytah,” unique silver coins, he possesses. Both herds and silver were used as ancient systems of money between 1900 and 1700 B.C. The names of Job’s sons were also uncommon in later time periods but were common before and during the time of the patriarchs.

While the early chapters of Genesis cover events that happened before Job, the actual written accounts of those events were not recorded until after the book of Job had already been composed. In fact, Job is over 400 years older than Genesis. This means Job is not only the sole drama in the Bible but also the oldest book by far.

Unlike the rest of the Bible, Job is written not as prose or poetry but as a drama. In the book, an angel in God’s court, Satan, challenges God that Job is pious only because he has a good, comfortable life. God declares that Job will not give up his faith and curse God despite terrible things befalling him. God accepts Satan's challenge, and wins the wager, for Job suffers loss of health and every manner of personal tragedy but still clings to his faith, after which God restores to Job what he has lost and further blesses him.

Everyone knows that God exists.

All people desire to know their Creator, even if they are not professed believers in God for God has made it evident to mankind that He is real.

"for since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse" (Romans 1:19-20).

When God steps in, as in the book of Job, He does not explain why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not possibly understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried ...

It begins with a challenge. God points out how righteous and blameless Job is. Satan claims Job is only good because God gives him wealth and health. He says that God is not loved for Himself, but that He is only making mercenaries (known as soldiers of fortune, individuals who takes part in military conflicts for personal profit).

Like us, the historical characters in Job are totally unaware of what is going on behind the scenes and they spend most of their time speculating on why God was allowing Job to suffer so many evils.

When God steps in, He does not tell them why. Instead, He takes Job on a cosmic tour of His creation and reminds him that no matter how small or great the things in the cosmos are, even these are beyond Job's full comprehension. He could not understand God's governance of the whole system if he tried — and he certainly could not take over the controls even if he wanted to.

God describes Behemoth and Leviathan and tells Job that even these are on His leash.

The human characters were all assuming that somehow the world has to be "fair" if God is just. God shows them this fallen world is not fair, He does not run it on fairness - instead, He governs the flawed cosmos in wisdom.
"This is what the LORD says: “Let not the wise boast of their wisdom or the strong boast of their strength or the rich boast of their riches,
but let the one who boasts boast about this: that they have the understanding to know me, that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,” declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 9:23-24)

Through it all, Job never complained of the loss of his wealth or health, what he really wanted was his relationship with God. And though he had moments of doubt, he also continued to trust - "Though He slay me, YET will I trust him." (Job 13:15). And when God appears in a theophany (a visible (but not necessarily material) manifestation of Deity) , Job stops asking why these things had happened, "Now my eyes have seen Thee." Job is satisfied.

Then God restores all things to Job, more than he had before. Not as a reward for passing some test, but simply as an unmerited gift of His grace.

In the end, that great dragon — the true Leviathan — the Devil, is shown to be wrong. God is loving and He is righteous. People love Him for Himself and not just for the things He can give them.

Job, famously foresaw through faith, his Messiah/Redeemer's visitation upon earth two thousand years in the future:

"Oh that my words were written! Oh that they were inscribed in a book! Oh that with an iron pen and lead they were engraved in the rock forever! For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another."

I came across a great quote that says it all, whenever we think we can run things better than God. It comes from a 19th century Frenchman who was renowned for his oratorical skills. His name was J.M.L. Monsabre, and he said,

"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are.”

Wisdom, let us pay heed!


Christian Renaissance
David Hawthorne
Got Questions
When God Allows Suffering And Doesn't Tell Us Why ... (show quote)


Great article and I love this quote -

"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are.”

I need to go back and reread Job. Its been way too long. So many lessons to learn.

Glad to see you back.

Reply
Apr 2, 2020 16:39:05   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Hi Rose,

It is so good to see your steadfastness and patience in witnessing to the Lord of Creation, His salvation and His mercy for all who will believe and accept while there is time.


Rose42 wrote:
Great article and I love this quote -

"If God would concede me His omnipotence for 24 hours, you would see how many changes I would make in the world. But if He gave me His wisdom too, I would leave things as they are.”

I need to go back and reread Job. Its been way too long. So many lessons to learn.

Glad to see you back.

Reply
Apr 4, 2020 23:47:08   #
manning5 Loc: Richmond, VA
 
Zemirah wrote:
Hi manning, - within our own strength, none of us, only through the strength that He provides.

"For this reason, take up the whole armor of God so that you may be able to take a stand whenever evil comes. And when you have done everything you could, you will be able to stand firm." (Ephesians 6:13)


Hello Zemirah
YES, YES, YES! Quite right! It is those without the whole armor of God that may not cope. I fear that all too many today in our nation do not have that, and quite a few on OPP also.

Reply
Apr 5, 2020 05:15:47   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Happy Palm Sunday to you, Manning.

Certainly, all those without faith in our living God, or the truth found only in his written word, whose days are consumed in watching current political news from a mainstream media perspective, and then proceed to regurgitate the mendacity they believe they have learned by recycling/posting it onto the internet forum, cannot easily absorb or reflect the promise of Jesus Christ, that is:

"the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:7)


manning5 wrote:
Hello Zemirah
YES, YES, YES! Quite right! It is those without the whole armor of God that may not cope. I fear that all too many today in our nation do not have that, and quite a few on OPP also.

Reply
Page 1 of 2 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Faith, Religion, Spirituality
OnePoliticalPlaza.com - Forum
Copyright 2012-2024 IDF International Technologies, Inc.