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Feb 27, 2020 00:18:39   #
fredlott63
 
Baptism

There is no baptism in the old testament. God’s law was not understood or taught. But was being used by the Sanhedrin to make an easy life for themselves. They added to God’s law and used it to point fingers and accuse, instead of building, uplifting, and encouraging. Nothing has changed.. Religion has replaced idolatry. God’s word isn’t understood or taught, but used to point fingers and accuse. The church has more in common with the Sanhedrin than Christ and the disciples. That’s the reason Christ’s message started with repentance. Baptism symbolizes dying to your old life, and being raised in the newness of the spirit.

Reply
Feb 27, 2020 04:13:21   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
fredlott63 wrote:
Baptism

There is no baptism in the old testament. God’s law was not understood or taught. But was being used by the Sanhedrin to make an easy life for themselves. They added to God’s law and used it to point fingers and accuse, instead of building, uplifting, and encouraging. Nothing has changed.. Religion has replaced idolatry. God’s word isn’t understood or taught, but used to point fingers and accuse. The church has more in common with the Sanhedrin than Christ and the disciples. That’s the reason Christ’s message started with repentance. Baptism symbolizes dying to your old life, and being raised in the newness of the spirit.
Baptism br br There is no baptism in the old test... (show quote)


Amen...

Reply
Feb 27, 2020 05:26:26   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
fredlott63 wrote:
Baptism

There is no baptism in the old testament. God’s law was not understood or taught. But was being used by the Sanhedrin to make an easy life for themselves. They added to God’s law and used it to point fingers and accuse, instead of building, uplifting, and encouraging. Nothing has changed.. Religion has replaced idolatry. God’s word isn’t understood or taught, but used to point fingers and accuse. The church has more in common with the Sanhedrin than Christ and the disciples. That’s the reason Christ’s message started with repentance. Baptism symbolizes dying to your old life, and being raised in the newness of the spirit.
Baptism br br There is no baptism in the old test... (show quote)


Are you aware that "baptism" was actually taken from pagan rights, according to historical writings? In ancient history, the Greek historian Plutarch tells us that the rites of Mithras were being practiced in Cilicia in 67BC. That is just about 100 years before Christianity started. In ancient Babylon, according to the Tablets of Maklu, water was important as a spiritual cleansing agent in the cult of Enke, lord of Eridu. In Egypt, the Book of Going Forth by Day contains a treatise on the baptism of newborn children, which is performed to purify them of blemishes acquired in the womb. Water, especially the Nile's cold water, which was believed to have regenerative powers, is used to baptize the dead in a ritual based on the Osiris myth. Egyptian cults also developed the idea of regeneration through water. The bath preceding initiation into the cult of Isis seems to have been more than a simple ritual purification; it was probably intended to represent symbolically the initiate's death to the life of this world by recalling Osiris' drowning in the Nile.

In the cult of Cybele, a baptism of blood was practiced in the rite of the Taurobolium: where one was covered with the blood of a bull. At first this rite seems to have been to provide the initiate with greater physical vitality, but later it acquired more of a spiritual importance. A well-known inscription attests that he who has received baptism of blood has received a new birth in eternity. However, the fact that this baptism was repeated periodically shows that the idea of complete spiritual regeneration was not associated with it.

The property of immortality was also associated with baptism in the ancient Greek world. A bath in the sanctuary of Trophonion procured for the initiate a blessed immortality even while in this world. The mystery religions of that period often included ablution rites of either immersion or a washing of the body for the purposes of purification or initiation. Other concepts said to have been associated with these forms of cultic baptisms included the transformation of one's life, the removal of sins, symbolic representation, the attainment of greater physical vitality, a new beginning, spiritual regeneration. It is believed that all ancient religions recognized some form of spiritual cleansing, renewal or initiation that was accomplished through a washing or immersion in water.

So, the ancient Hebrew would not have baptized. This would have been considered "following false gods" which if you recall is the First Commandment, "Thou shall have no other gods before ME". There were rules given to the Hebrew requiring bathing and washing of clothing...not to be confused with the "Christianization of pagan" rituals to include baptism that was practiced by the Egyptians to the Greeks and Romans.

Reply
 
 
Feb 27, 2020 05:34:37   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Are you aware that "baptism" was actually taken from pagan rights, according to historical writings? In ancient history, the Greek historian Plutarch tells us that the rites of Mithras were being practiced in Cilicia in 67BC. That is just about 100 years before Christianity started. In ancient Babylon, according to the Tablets of Maklu, water was important as a spiritual cleansing agent in the cult of Enke, lord of Eridu. In Egypt, the Book of Going Forth by Day contains a treatise on the baptism of newborn children, which is performed to purify them of blemishes acquired in the womb. Water, especially the Nile's cold water, which was believed to have regenerative powers, is used to baptize the dead in a ritual based on the Osiris myth. Egyptian cults also developed the idea of regeneration through water. The bath preceding initiation into the cult of Isis seems to have been more than a simple ritual purification; it was probably intended to represent symbolically the initiate's death to the life of this world by recalling Osiris' drowning in the Nile.

In the cult of Cybele, a baptism of blood was practiced in the rite of the Taurobolium: where one was covered with the blood of a bull. At first this rite seems to have been to provide the initiate with greater physical vitality, but later it acquired more of a spiritual importance. A well-known inscription attests that he who has received baptism of blood has received a new birth in eternity. However, the fact that this baptism was repeated periodically shows that the idea of complete spiritual regeneration was not associated with it.

The property of immortality was also associated with baptism in the ancient Greek world. A bath in the sanctuary of Trophonion procured for the initiate a blessed immortality even while in this world. The mystery religions of that period often included ablution rites of either immersion or a washing of the body for the purposes of purification or initiation. Other concepts said to have been associated with these forms of cultic baptisms included the transformation of one's life, the removal of sins, symbolic representation, the attainment of greater physical vitality, a new beginning, spiritual regeneration. It is believed that all ancient religions recognized some form of spiritual cleansing, renewal or initiation that was accomplished through a washing or immersion in water.

So, the ancient Hebrew would not have baptized. This would have been considered "following false gods" which if you recall is the First Commandment, "Thou shall have no other gods before ME". There were rules given to the Hebrew requiring bathing and washing of clothing...not to be confused with the "Christianization of pagan" rituals to include baptism that was practiced by the Egyptians to the Greeks and Romans.
Are you aware that "baptism" was actuall... (show quote)


And yet Jesus taught baptism...

Reply
Feb 27, 2020 06:01:57   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
And yet Jesus taught baptism...


Jesus "borrowed" the rite from his cousin, John the Baptizer.

Reply
Feb 27, 2020 09:08:16   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
https://theopneustos2316.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/the-old-testament-roots-of-baptism/

A fundamental principle in theology is that every Christian doctrine and practice has its roots in the Hebrew Scriptures of the Old Testament. For example, we would not seek the roots of the Communion service in the Old Testament Feast of Tabernacles. Instead, we look to the festival of Passover to provide the proper context for the Lord’s Supper and the keys to interpret the symbolism behind the words and actions of Yeshua (Jesus).

So, too, when considering the origins of the Christian ritual of baptism, we must look for its proper Old Testament antecedent. A number of scholars have assumed that baptism is the New Testament equivalent of circumcision, however the purpose of this article is to question that assumption and to show that there is a more appropriate Old Testament practice from which Christian baptism has sprung.

Where in the Old Testament can we find the origins of New Testament baptism? It is my contention that we should look to the Old Testament Jewish ritual, still practised today, called the mikvah. Many people who are familiar with the modern ritual imagine the mikvah is used solely by Jewish women for ceremonial cleansing after the completion of their menstrual cycle. The mikvah, however, is also widely used by Orthodox Jewish men. Before his wedding, a Jewish groom ritually immerses himself in the mikvah; many Jewish men immerse themselves before the Day of Atonement; ultra-Orthodox men baptise themselves before each Sabbath and holy day, while the extremely observant baptise themselves before prayers each day. The waters of mikvah are called the mayim hayim- ‘Waters of Life’ -as the mikvah is seen as a rebirth.

The mikvah is so important that Jewish law states that a community is permitted to sell its Torah Scrolls and even the Synagogue in order to finance the building of a mikvah.

Throughout the Old Testament ritual purification was vitally important. The mikvah, as it was later called, was part of the purification ceremony to make a person ritually kosher, fit for the worship of God in the Temple. Leviticus 15 is an important chapter with regard to ritual purification. The chapter contains detailed instructions as to who should undergo the ritual mikvah.

Three Hebrew words are used in this chapter for ritual washing: rahatz, shataf and kabas.

First: Rahatz means to wash or bathe and is used only in reference to people.

Second: Shataf means to wash, rinse, overflow, engulf, rinse or wash off. The word is used once, in verse 11 of Leviticus 15, in relation to the washing of hands.

Third: Kabas means to wash, or to be washed out. Kabas is used only of things, clothes etc. When this ritual is over the person is declared to be tahor, ceremonially pure.

Ceremonial purification by means of immersion or baptism was a very important part of Israelite life in Tabernacle and Temple times. People, hands, ritual implements and clothing all had to undergo baptism (see Leviticus 11:25; 14:8, 9, 47; 16:26, 28; 17:15, Numbers 19:10).

The word mikvah literally means collection. In the discussion of the laws of ritual purity and impurity, the Torah states, ‘But a fountain or pit, with a collection (mikvah) of water shall be clean [tahor – pure].’ (Lev 11:36). Isaiah 22:11 renders mikvah as a ‘reservoir’. So the word mikvah came to be used to describe an accumulation of water in which a person was ritually immersed.

It should be evident that the roots of New Testament baptism are to be found in the Old Testament for it seems forced logic to conclude that the background for New Testament baptism is to be found in the ceremony in which the foreskin of an eight day old boy is surgically removed. If baptism existed in the Old Testament, why do we need to look elsewhere for the origin of New Testament baptism?

Mikvah: Old Testament Baptism in Jeruslem

In the Old Testament and New Testament period, baptism was common. One of the few cities in the world where five thousand men could be baptised in one day was Jerusalem. Archaeology has revealed many mikvot (ritual baptismal pools) all over Jerusalem, enough to baptise several thousand people in a single day. We could reasonably ask if there was, during Temple times, a day in ancient Jerusalem when multitudes were not being baptised for one reason or another?

If baptism had been a new ritual, we would expect the religious authorities to have challenged John the Baptist as to his authority for introducing such an element. The introduction of repentance into baptism was a new element. His baptism was not for proselytes. Converts to Judaism underwent baptism but John was baptising those who were already Jewish.

John’s baptism undoubtedly had its origin in the many types of Old Testament baptism. In Matthew 3:7 we read John’s scathing rebuke of the Pharisees and Sadducees: ‘Who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?’ It would appear the Pharisees and Sadducees were trying to gain credibility by associating themselves with John’s exciting new take on the mikvah. In Luke 3:7 we read that John says this to the crowd who came to be baptised by him. From this we can even suggest that the Pharisees and Sadducees were coming to receive John’s baptism as well! John the Baptist was not only well within the tradition of the Jewish prophets, administering a well established Jewish rite, but also he was practising it in the most orthodox way possible. Jewish authorities state that the best place for a mikvah is in a river with flowing water – mayim hayim. John the Baptist was as kosher as they come!

The Christian faith is the fulfillment and continuation of Old Testament Judaism. Can you imagine zealous, genuine and observant Jewish men and women, submitting to a novel religious practice with no questions asked? When thousands of first-century Jewish people were baptised they did not feel they were taking part in something alien. They had been baptised in the mikvah many times before. The new element in John’s baptism was its purpose: ‘John came baptising in the wilderness and proclaiming the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.’ (Mark 1:4).

No one in Israel was automatically saved because of their ancestry; they needed to exercise personal faith. Despite being circumcised, many rebellious Israelites died under God’s judgments recorded in the Old Testament. Even the sons of Aaron were killed in the tabernacle for offering ‘strange fire’. There is no such thing as hereditary salvation.

The New Testament explanation of baptism is in terms of death and resurrection. Immersion in water represents being buried in a grave. Rising from the water is being raised to life, a new person, pure and cleansed from sin. The same basic idea lies behind Old Testament mikvah; the waters of baptism are mayim hayim, waters of life.

Baptism in the New Testament is a symbol of death and resurrection. That is why we read of Moses and the children of Israel being ‘baptised’ in the Red Sea: ‘I do not want you to be ignorant that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea. And all were baptised to Moses in the cloud and in the sea’ (1 Cor 10:1-2). At the Red Sea, Israel went down into death and came up the other side to a new life. Egypt and bondage were left on the other side of the sea, while the waters closed over the pursuing Egyptian army and consumed them. This is a picture of the old life of domination by sin being destroyed.

Yeshua’s (Jesus's) Old Testament Baptism

Yeshua underwent baptism. ‘And it happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptised by John in the Jordan.’ (Mark 1:9). Yeshua was a Jew among Jews. He underwent redemption of the firstborn son (Pidyon HaBen), Circumcision (Brit Milah) and attended synagogue each Shabbat, as was his custom. It should not seem strange then that He also underwent a public mikvah as He commenced his public ministry (Matt 3:1-17). At his ritual immersion in the Jordan, Yeshua was fulfilling all righteousness. As the perfect Jew, the perfect human, he complied with all God’s Law. He was about to enter his ministry as the Great High Priest and therefore fulfilled the legal requirement of priesthood before taking up office. He was not submitting to John’s baptism of repentance; John knew that Yeshua had no need to repent, hence he was unworthy to loosen his sandals. Yeshua’s baptism was ‘the Mikvah of Priestly Service’.

Yeshua was about thirty years old when he was baptised (Luke 3:23). This was the age at which the Levites began their Temple ministry. Our Great High Priest was baptised in order ‘to fulfil all righteousness’. This is to say that the Son of God willingly submitted himself to God the Father’s law code for priestly service. Here we see the humility of Jesus, that humility which is a mark of citizens of the kingdom of heaven, about which John the Baptist preached. John also bore this mark of humility as he recognised himself as unworthy to officiate at the mikvah of the Messiah. By receiving the mikvah ceremony from John Yeshua placed His seal of approval on John’s message and affirmed John’s reclaiming of repentance of sin as the central, but forgotten significance of Old Testament baptism. Numbers 19:7-8 shows the importance of the mikvah ritual in priestly service. In Leviticus 16:4 Aaron, the High Priest had to undergo mikvah before he could wear the sacred clothing and enter the Most Holy Place on the Day of Atonement. In the Mishnah (which records traditions and practices at the time of Christ) it is recorded that the mikvah was compulsory for all Levites serving in the Temple.

As Yeshua prayed at the completion of his mikvah at the Jordan, the heavens opened and God declared, ‘You are My Son, the Beloved; I am delighted in You’ (Luke 3:22). This divine affirmation served Yeshua well during his forty days in the wilderness and the temptation that followed.



fredlott63 wrote:
Baptism

There is no baptism in the old testament. God’s law was not understood or taught. But was being used by the Sanhedrin to make an easy life for themselves. They added to God’s law and used it to point fingers and accuse, instead of building, uplifting, and encouraging. Nothing has changed.. Religion has replaced idolatry. God’s word isn’t understood or taught, but used to point fingers and accuse. The church has more in common with the Sanhedrin than Christ and the disciples. That’s the reason Christ’s message started with repentance. Baptism symbolizes dying to your old life, and being raised in the newness of the spirit.
Baptism br br There is no baptism in the old test... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 27, 2020 11:11:31   #
bahmer
 
Zemirah wrote:
https://theopneustos2316.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/the-old-testament-roots-of-baptism/

A fundamental principle in theology is that every Christian doctrine and practice has its roots in the Hebrew Scriptures of the Old Testament. For example, we would not seek the roots of the Communion service in the Old Testament Feast of Tabernacles. Instead, we look to the festival of Passover to provide the proper context for the Lord’s Supper and the keys to interpret the symbolism behind the words and actions of Yeshua (Jesus).

So, too, when considering the origins of the Christian ritual of baptism, we must look for its proper Old Testament antecedent. A number of scholars have assumed that baptism is the New Testament equivalent of circumcision, however the purpose of this article is to question that assumption and to show that there is a more appropriate Old Testament practice from which Christian baptism has sprung.

Where in the Old Testament can we find the origins of New Testament baptism? It is my contention that we should look to the Old Testament Jewish ritual, still practised today, called the mikvah. Many people who are familiar with the modern ritual imagine the mikvah is used solely by Jewish women for ceremonial cleansing after the completion of their menstrual cycle. The mikvah, however, is also widely used by Orthodox Jewish men. Before his wedding, a Jewish groom ritually immerses himself in the mikvah; many Jewish men immerse themselves before the Day of Atonement; ultra-Orthodox men baptise themselves before each Sabbath and holy day, while the extremely observant baptise themselves before prayers each day. The waters of mikvah are called the mayim hayim- ‘Waters of Life’ -as the mikvah is seen as a rebirth.

The mikvah is so important that Jewish law states that a community is permitted to sell its Torah Scrolls and even the Synagogue in order to finance the building of a mikvah.

Throughout the Old Testament ritual purification was vitally important. The mikvah, as it was later called, was part of the purification ceremony to make a person ritually kosher, fit for the worship of God in the Temple. Leviticus 15 is an important chapter with regard to ritual purification. The chapter contains detailed instructions as to who should undergo the ritual mikvah.

Three Hebrew words are used in this chapter for ritual washing: rahatz, shataf and kabas.

First: Rahatz means to wash or bathe and is used only in reference to people.

Second: Shataf means to wash, rinse, overflow, engulf, rinse or wash off. The word is used once, in verse 11 of Leviticus 15, in relation to the washing of hands.

Third: Kabas means to wash, or to be washed out. Kabas is used only of things, clothes etc. When this ritual is over the person is declared to be tahor, ceremonially pure.

Ceremonial purification by means of immersion or baptism was a very important part of Israelite life in Tabernacle and Temple times. People, hands, ritual implements and clothing all had to undergo baptism (see Leviticus 11:25; 14:8, 9, 47; 16:26, 28; 17:15, Numbers 19:10).

The word mikvah literally means collection. In the discussion of the laws of ritual purity and impurity, the Torah states, ‘But a fountain or pit, with a collection (mikvah) of water shall be clean [tahor – pure].’ (Lev 11:36). Isaiah 22:11 renders mikvah as a ‘reservoir’. So the word mikvah came to be used to describe an accumulation of water in which a person was ritually immersed.

It should be evident that the roots of New Testament baptism are to be found in the Old Testament for it seems forced logic to conclude that the background for New Testament baptism is to be found in the ceremony in which the foreskin of an eight day old boy is surgically removed. If baptism existed in the Old Testament, why do we need to look elsewhere for the origin of New Testament baptism?

Mikvah: Old Testament Baptism in Jeruslem

In the Old Testament and New Testament period, baptism was common. One of the few cities in the world where five thousand men could be baptised in one day was Jerusalem. Archaeology has revealed many mikvot (ritual baptismal pools) all over Jerusalem, enough to baptise several thousand people in a single day. We could reasonably ask if there was, during Temple times, a day in ancient Jerusalem when multitudes were not being baptised for one reason or another?

If baptism had been a new ritual, we would expect the religious authorities to have challenged John the Baptist as to his authority for introducing such an element. The introduction of repentance into baptism was a new element. His baptism was not for proselytes. Converts to Judaism underwent baptism but John was baptising those who were already Jewish.

John’s baptism undoubtedly had its origin in the many types of Old Testament baptism. In Matthew 3:7 we read John’s scathing rebuke of the Pharisees and Sadducees: ‘Who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?’ It would appear the Pharisees and Sadducees were trying to gain credibility by associating themselves with John’s exciting new take on the mikvah. In Luke 3:7 we read that John says this to the crowd who came to be baptised by him. From this we can even suggest that the Pharisees and Sadducees were coming to receive John’s baptism as well! John the Baptist was not only well within the tradition of the Jewish prophets, administering a well established Jewish rite, but also he was practising it in the most orthodox way possible. Jewish authorities state that the best place for a mikvah is in a river with flowing water – mayim hayim. John the Baptist was as kosher as they come!

The Christian faith is the fulfillment and continuation of Old Testament Judaism. Can you imagine zealous, genuine and observant Jewish men and women, submitting to a novel religious practice with no questions asked? When thousands of first-century Jewish people were baptised they did not feel they were taking part in something alien. They had been baptised in the mikvah many times before. The new element in John’s baptism was its purpose: ‘John came baptising in the wilderness and proclaiming the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.’ (Mark 1:4).

No one in Israel was automatically saved because of their ancestry; they needed to exercise personal faith. Despite being circumcised, many rebellious Israelites died under God’s judgments recorded in the Old Testament. Even the sons of Aaron were killed in the tabernacle for offering ‘strange fire’. There is no such thing as hereditary salvation.

The New Testament explanation of baptism is in terms of death and resurrection. Immersion in water represents being buried in a grave. Rising from the water is being raised to life, a new person, pure and cleansed from sin. The same basic idea lies behind Old Testament mikvah; the waters of baptism are mayim hayim, waters of life.

Baptism in the New Testament is a symbol of death and resurrection. That is why we read of Moses and the children of Israel being ‘baptised’ in the Red Sea: ‘I do not want you to be ignorant that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea. And all were baptised to Moses in the cloud and in the sea’ (1 Cor 10:1-2). At the Red Sea, Israel went down into death and came up the other side to a new life. Egypt and bondage were left on the other side of the sea, while the waters closed over the pursuing Egyptian army and consumed them. This is a picture of the old life of domination by sin being destroyed.

Yeshua’s (Jesus's) Old Testament Baptism

Yeshua underwent baptism. ‘And it happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptised by John in the Jordan.’ (Mark 1:9). Yeshua was a Jew among Jews. He underwent redemption of the firstborn son (Pidyon HaBen), Circumcision (Brit Milah) and attended synagogue each Shabbat, as was his custom. It should not seem strange then that He also underwent a public mikvah as He commenced his public ministry (Matt 3:1-17). At his ritual immersion in the Jordan, Yeshua was fulfilling all righteousness. As the perfect Jew, the perfect human, he complied with all God’s Law. He was about to enter his ministry as the Great High Priest and therefore fulfilled the legal requirement of priesthood before taking up office. He was not submitting to John’s baptism of repentance; John knew that Yeshua had no need to repent, hence he was unworthy to loosen his sandals. Yeshua’s baptism was ‘the Mikvah of Priestly Service’.

Yeshua was about thirty years old when he was baptised (Luke 3:23). This was the age at which the Levites began their Temple ministry. Our Great High Priest was baptised in order ‘to fulfil all righteousness’. This is to say that the Son of God willingly submitted himself to God the Father’s law code for priestly service. Here we see the humility of Jesus, that humility which is a mark of citizens of the kingdom of heaven, about which John the Baptist preached. John also bore this mark of humility as he recognised himself as unworthy to officiate at the mikvah of the Messiah. By receiving the mikvah ceremony from John Yeshua placed His seal of approval on John’s message and affirmed John’s reclaiming of repentance of sin as the central, but forgotten significance of Old Testament baptism. Numbers 19:7-8 shows the importance of the mikvah ritual in priestly service. In Leviticus 16:4 Aaron, the High Priest had to undergo mikvah before he could wear the sacred clothing and enter the Most Holy Place on the Day of Atonement. In the Mishnah (which records traditions and practices at the time of Christ) it is recorded that the mikvah was compulsory for all Levites serving in the Temple.

As Yeshua prayed at the completion of his mikvah at the Jordan, the heavens opened and God declared, ‘You are My Son, the Beloved; I am delighted in You’ (Luke 3:22). This divine affirmation served Yeshua well during his forty days in the wilderness and the temptation that followed.
https://theopneustos2316.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/... (show quote)


Amen and Amen

Reply
 
 
Feb 27, 2020 22:42:34   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Zemirah wrote:
https://theopneustos2316.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/the-old-testament-roots-of-baptism/

A fundamental principle in theology is that every Christian doctrine and practice has its roots in the Hebrew Scriptures of the Old Testament. For example, we would not seek the roots of the Communion service in the Old Testament Feast of Tabernacles. Instead, we look to the festival of Passover to provide the proper context for the Lord’s Supper and the keys to interpret the symbolism behind the words and actions of Yeshua (Jesus).

So, too, when considering the origins of the Christian ritual of baptism, we must look for its proper Old Testament antecedent. A number of scholars have assumed that baptism is the New Testament equivalent of circumcision, however the purpose of this article is to question that assumption and to show that there is a more appropriate Old Testament practice from which Christian baptism has sprung.

Where in the Old Testament can we find the origins of New Testament baptism? It is my contention that we should look to the Old Testament Jewish ritual, still practised today, called the mikvah. Many people who are familiar with the modern ritual imagine the mikvah is used solely by Jewish women for ceremonial cleansing after the completion of their menstrual cycle. The mikvah, however, is also widely used by Orthodox Jewish men. Before his wedding, a Jewish groom ritually immerses himself in the mikvah; many Jewish men immerse themselves before the Day of Atonement; ultra-Orthodox men baptise themselves before each Sabbath and holy day, while the extremely observant baptise themselves before prayers each day. The waters of mikvah are called the mayim hayim- ‘Waters of Life’ -as the mikvah is seen as a rebirth.

The mikvah is so important that Jewish law states that a community is permitted to sell its Torah Scrolls and even the Synagogue in order to finance the building of a mikvah.

Throughout the Old Testament ritual purification was vitally important. The mikvah, as it was later called, was part of the purification ceremony to make a person ritually kosher, fit for the worship of God in the Temple. Leviticus 15 is an important chapter with regard to ritual purification. The chapter contains detailed instructions as to who should undergo the ritual mikvah.

Three Hebrew words are used in this chapter for ritual washing: rahatz, shataf and kabas.

First: Rahatz means to wash or bathe and is used only in reference to people.

Second: Shataf means to wash, rinse, overflow, engulf, rinse or wash off. The word is used once, in verse 11 of Leviticus 15, in relation to the washing of hands.

Third: Kabas means to wash, or to be washed out. Kabas is used only of things, clothes etc. When this ritual is over the person is declared to be tahor, ceremonially pure.

Ceremonial purification by means of immersion or baptism was a very important part of Israelite life in Tabernacle and Temple times. People, hands, ritual implements and clothing all had to undergo baptism (see Leviticus 11:25; 14:8, 9, 47; 16:26, 28; 17:15, Numbers 19:10).

The word mikvah literally means collection. In the discussion of the laws of ritual purity and impurity, the Torah states, ‘But a fountain or pit, with a collection (mikvah) of water shall be clean [tahor – pure].’ (Lev 11:36). Isaiah 22:11 renders mikvah as a ‘reservoir’. So the word mikvah came to be used to describe an accumulation of water in which a person was ritually immersed.

It should be evident that the roots of New Testament baptism are to be found in the Old Testament for it seems forced logic to conclude that the background for New Testament baptism is to be found in the ceremony in which the foreskin of an eight day old boy is surgically removed. If baptism existed in the Old Testament, why do we need to look elsewhere for the origin of New Testament baptism?

Mikvah: Old Testament Baptism in Jeruslem

In the Old Testament and New Testament period, baptism was common. One of the few cities in the world where five thousand men could be baptised in one day was Jerusalem. Archaeology has revealed many mikvot (ritual baptismal pools) all over Jerusalem, enough to baptise several thousand people in a single day. We could reasonably ask if there was, during Temple times, a day in ancient Jerusalem when multitudes were not being baptised for one reason or another?

If baptism had been a new ritual, we would expect the religious authorities to have challenged John the Baptist as to his authority for introducing such an element. The introduction of repentance into baptism was a new element. His baptism was not for proselytes. Converts to Judaism underwent baptism but John was baptising those who were already Jewish.

John’s baptism undoubtedly had its origin in the many types of Old Testament baptism. In Matthew 3:7 we read John’s scathing rebuke of the Pharisees and Sadducees: ‘Who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?’ It would appear the Pharisees and Sadducees were trying to gain credibility by associating themselves with John’s exciting new take on the mikvah. In Luke 3:7 we read that John says this to the crowd who came to be baptised by him. From this we can even suggest that the Pharisees and Sadducees were coming to receive John’s baptism as well! John the Baptist was not only well within the tradition of the Jewish prophets, administering a well established Jewish rite, but also he was practising it in the most orthodox way possible. Jewish authorities state that the best place for a mikvah is in a river with flowing water – mayim hayim. John the Baptist was as kosher as they come!

The Christian faith is the fulfillment and continuation of Old Testament Judaism. Can you imagine zealous, genuine and observant Jewish men and women, submitting to a novel religious practice with no questions asked? When thousands of first-century Jewish people were baptised they did not feel they were taking part in something alien. They had been baptised in the mikvah many times before. The new element in John’s baptism was its purpose: ‘John came baptising in the wilderness and proclaiming the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.’ (Mark 1:4).

No one in Israel was automatically saved because of their ancestry; they needed to exercise personal faith. Despite being circumcised, many rebellious Israelites died under God’s judgments recorded in the Old Testament. Even the sons of Aaron were killed in the tabernacle for offering ‘strange fire’. There is no such thing as hereditary salvation.

The New Testament explanation of baptism is in terms of death and resurrection. Immersion in water represents being buried in a grave. Rising from the water is being raised to life, a new person, pure and cleansed from sin. The same basic idea lies behind Old Testament mikvah; the waters of baptism are mayim hayim, waters of life.

Baptism in the New Testament is a symbol of death and resurrection. That is why we read of Moses and the children of Israel being ‘baptised’ in the Red Sea: ‘I do not want you to be ignorant that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea. And all were baptised to Moses in the cloud and in the sea’ (1 Cor 10:1-2). At the Red Sea, Israel went down into death and came up the other side to a new life. Egypt and bondage were left on the other side of the sea, while the waters closed over the pursuing Egyptian army and consumed them. This is a picture of the old life of domination by sin being destroyed.

Yeshua’s (Jesus's) Old Testament Baptism

Yeshua underwent baptism. ‘And it happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptised by John in the Jordan.’ (Mark 1:9). Yeshua was a Jew among Jews. He underwent redemption of the firstborn son (Pidyon HaBen), Circumcision (Brit Milah) and attended synagogue each Shabbat, as was his custom. It should not seem strange then that He also underwent a public mikvah as He commenced his public ministry (Matt 3:1-17). At his ritual immersion in the Jordan, Yeshua was fulfilling all righteousness. As the perfect Jew, the perfect human, he complied with all God’s Law. He was about to enter his ministry as the Great High Priest and therefore fulfilled the legal requirement of priesthood before taking up office. He was not submitting to John’s baptism of repentance; John knew that Yeshua had no need to repent, hence he was unworthy to loosen his sandals. Yeshua’s baptism was ‘the Mikvah of Priestly Service’.

Yeshua was about thirty years old when he was baptised (Luke 3:23). This was the age at which the Levites began their Temple ministry. Our Great High Priest was baptised in order ‘to fulfil all righteousness’. This is to say that the Son of God willingly submitted himself to God the Father’s law code for priestly service. Here we see the humility of Jesus, that humility which is a mark of citizens of the kingdom of heaven, about which John the Baptist preached. John also bore this mark of humility as he recognised himself as unworthy to officiate at the mikvah of the Messiah. By receiving the mikvah ceremony from John Yeshua placed His seal of approval on John’s message and affirmed John’s reclaiming of repentance of sin as the central, but forgotten significance of Old Testament baptism. Numbers 19:7-8 shows the importance of the mikvah ritual in priestly service. In Leviticus 16:4 Aaron, the High Priest had to undergo mikvah before he could wear the sacred clothing and enter the Most Holy Place on the Day of Atonement. In the Mishnah (which records traditions and practices at the time of Christ) it is recorded that the mikvah was compulsory for all Levites serving in the Temple.

As Yeshua prayed at the completion of his mikvah at the Jordan, the heavens opened and God declared, ‘You are My Son, the Beloved; I am delighted in You’ (Luke 3:22). This divine affirmation served Yeshua well during his forty days in the wilderness and the temptation that followed.
https://theopneustos2316.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/... (show quote)


You make quite a case...Anyway, there is one difference not given much attention in your post. Or perhaps I do not understand the act of baptism. So, correct me if I am in error.

Baptism, according to Saul happens one time only, unless the baptism was not done right (as he wanted) or was done for wrong reasons (they did not follow his teachings).

Jewish ritual bathing was routine. The cleansing required by the Mosaic Law had to be repeated as often as a worshipper became unclean. This was not true of the baptism John performed nor of that later practiced by Christians. John’s baptism indicated repentance and a rejection of a former life course. Christian baptism symbolized the fact that a person had dedicated himself to God. The Christian did so once, not over and over again. Additionally, Archaeologists digging close to Jerusalem’s Temple Mount discovered nearly 100 ritual baths, or bathing pools, dating to the first century B.C.E. and the first century C.E. A synagogue inscription from the second or third century C.E. speaks of such baths being provided for “visitors who need them.” Other pools have been found in the quarter of Jerusalem that was occupied by wealthy and priestly families; nearly every house had its own private ritual bath. So, inside bathrooms have more in common with Jewish Laws on cleanliness than the baptisms performed by Christians.

Jesus criticized the Pharisees for their insistence on ritual cleansing. They evidently practiced “various baptisms,” including those for “cups and pitchers and copper vessels.” Jesus said that the Pharisees overstepped God’s commandments to impose their own traditions. (Hebrews 9:10; Mark 7:1-9; Leviticus 11:32, 33; Luke 11:38-42) No part of the Mosaic Law required complete bodily immersion.

The Jews performed cleansing rites upon themselves. The baptism John performed, though, was not a kind of ritual bathing familiar to the Jews. That John came to be known as the Baptizer indicates that the immersion he performed was different. Jewish religious leaders even sent a delegation to him to inquire: “Why . . . do you baptize?”​—John 1:25. And John's baptisms required help and an audience.


The ritual bathing performed in the homes of the Jewish priests and in the public baths close to the Temple Mount bore nothing more than a superficial resemblance to Christian baptism. Scholarly consensus holds that John [the Baptizer] did not take over or adapt any particular baptism from his 'milieu,” that is, from Judaism. The same can be said of the baptism practiced in the Christian congregation. Christian baptism represents “the request made to God for a good conscience.” (1 Peter 3:21) It symbolizes that an individual has wholly dedicated himself to Jehovah to serve Him as a disciple of His Son. Complete immersion in water is an appropriate symbol of such a dedication. A person’s going under the water represents his dying to his former life course. Being raised out of the water symbolizes his being made alive to do God’s will.

And, here is the major difference.....Peter could thus tell fellow believers: “Baptism is also now saving you.” That is something that no amount of Jewish ritual bathing could ever achieve. This is pretty much sums up the Pagan attitude on their baptism.

Reply
Feb 28, 2020 18:35:08   #
TexaCan Loc: Homeward Bound!
 
Zemirah wrote:
https://theopneustos2316.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/the-old-testament-roots-of-baptism/

A fundamental principle in theology is that every Christian doctrine and practice has its roots in the Hebrew Scriptures of the Old Testament. For example, we would not seek the roots of the Communion service in the Old Testament Feast of Tabernacles. Instead, we look to the festival of Passover to provide the proper context for the Lord’s Supper and the keys to interpret the symbolism behind the words and actions of Yeshua (Jesus).

So, too, when considering the origins of the Christian ritual of baptism, we must look for its proper Old Testament antecedent. A number of scholars have assumed that baptism is the New Testament equivalent of circumcision, however the purpose of this article is to question that assumption and to show that there is a more appropriate Old Testament practice from which Christian baptism has sprung.

Where in the Old Testament can we find the origins of New Testament baptism? It is my contention that we should look to the Old Testament Jewish ritual, still practised today, called the mikvah. Many people who are familiar with the modern ritual imagine the mikvah is used solely by Jewish women for ceremonial cleansing after the completion of their menstrual cycle. The mikvah, however, is also widely used by Orthodox Jewish men. Before his wedding, a Jewish groom ritually immerses himself in the mikvah; many Jewish men immerse themselves before the Day of Atonement; ultra-Orthodox men baptise themselves before each Sabbath and holy day, while the extremely observant baptise themselves before prayers each day. The waters of mikvah are called the mayim hayim- ‘Waters of Life’ -as the mikvah is seen as a rebirth.

The mikvah is so important that Jewish law states that a community is permitted to sell its Torah Scrolls and even the Synagogue in order to finance the building of a mikvah.

Throughout the Old Testament ritual purification was vitally important. The mikvah, as it was later called, was part of the purification ceremony to make a person ritually kosher, fit for the worship of God in the Temple. Leviticus 15 is an important chapter with regard to ritual purification. The chapter contains detailed instructions as to who should undergo the ritual mikvah.

Three Hebrew words are used in this chapter for ritual washing: rahatz, shataf and kabas.

First: Rahatz means to wash or bathe and is used only in reference to people.

Second: Shataf means to wash, rinse, overflow, engulf, rinse or wash off. The word is used once, in verse 11 of Leviticus 15, in relation to the washing of hands.

Third: Kabas means to wash, or to be washed out. Kabas is used only of things, clothes etc. When this ritual is over the person is declared to be tahor, ceremonially pure.

Ceremonial purification by means of immersion or baptism was a very important part of Israelite life in Tabernacle and Temple times. People, hands, ritual implements and clothing all had to undergo baptism (see Leviticus 11:25; 14:8, 9, 47; 16:26, 28; 17:15, Numbers 19:10).

The word mikvah literally means collection. In the discussion of the laws of ritual purity and impurity, the Torah states, ‘But a fountain or pit, with a collection (mikvah) of water shall be clean [tahor – pure].’ (Lev 11:36). Isaiah 22:11 renders mikvah as a ‘reservoir’. So the word mikvah came to be used to describe an accumulation of water in which a person was ritually immersed.

It should be evident that the roots of New Testament baptism are to be found in the Old Testament for it seems forced logic to conclude that the background for New Testament baptism is to be found in the ceremony in which the foreskin of an eight day old boy is surgically removed. If baptism existed in the Old Testament, why do we need to look elsewhere for the origin of New Testament baptism?

Mikvah: Old Testament Baptism in Jeruslem

In the Old Testament and New Testament period, baptism was common. One of the few cities in the world where five thousand men could be baptised in one day was Jerusalem. Archaeology has revealed many mikvot (ritual baptismal pools) all over Jerusalem, enough to baptise several thousand people in a single day. We could reasonably ask if there was, during Temple times, a day in ancient Jerusalem when multitudes were not being baptised for one reason or another?

If baptism had been a new ritual, we would expect the religious authorities to have challenged John the Baptist as to his authority for introducing such an element. The introduction of repentance into baptism was a new element. His baptism was not for proselytes. Converts to Judaism underwent baptism but John was baptising those who were already Jewish.

John’s baptism undoubtedly had its origin in the many types of Old Testament baptism. In Matthew 3:7 we read John’s scathing rebuke of the Pharisees and Sadducees: ‘Who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come?’ It would appear the Pharisees and Sadducees were trying to gain credibility by associating themselves with John’s exciting new take on the mikvah. In Luke 3:7 we read that John says this to the crowd who came to be baptised by him. From this we can even suggest that the Pharisees and Sadducees were coming to receive John’s baptism as well! John the Baptist was not only well within the tradition of the Jewish prophets, administering a well established Jewish rite, but also he was practising it in the most orthodox way possible. Jewish authorities state that the best place for a mikvah is in a river with flowing water – mayim hayim. John the Baptist was as kosher as they come!

The Christian faith is the fulfillment and continuation of Old Testament Judaism. Can you imagine zealous, genuine and observant Jewish men and women, submitting to a novel religious practice with no questions asked? When thousands of first-century Jewish people were baptised they did not feel they were taking part in something alien. They had been baptised in the mikvah many times before. The new element in John’s baptism was its purpose: ‘John came baptising in the wilderness and proclaiming the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.’ (Mark 1:4).

No one in Israel was automatically saved because of their ancestry; they needed to exercise personal faith. Despite being circumcised, many rebellious Israelites died under God’s judgments recorded in the Old Testament. Even the sons of Aaron were killed in the tabernacle for offering ‘strange fire’. There is no such thing as hereditary salvation.

The New Testament explanation of baptism is in terms of death and resurrection. Immersion in water represents being buried in a grave. Rising from the water is being raised to life, a new person, pure and cleansed from sin. The same basic idea lies behind Old Testament mikvah; the waters of baptism are mayim hayim, waters of life.

Baptism in the New Testament is a symbol of death and resurrection. That is why we read of Moses and the children of Israel being ‘baptised’ in the Red Sea: ‘I do not want you to be ignorant that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea. And all were baptised to Moses in the cloud and in the sea’ (1 Cor 10:1-2). At the Red Sea, Israel went down into death and came up the other side to a new life. Egypt and bondage were left on the other side of the sea, while the waters closed over the pursuing Egyptian army and consumed them. This is a picture of the old life of domination by sin being destroyed.

Yeshua’s (Jesus's) Old Testament Baptism

Yeshua underwent baptism. ‘And it happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptised by John in the Jordan.’ (Mark 1:9). Yeshua was a Jew among Jews. He underwent redemption of the firstborn son (Pidyon HaBen), Circumcision (Brit Milah) and attended synagogue each Shabbat, as was his custom. It should not seem strange then that He also underwent a public mikvah as He commenced his public ministry (Matt 3:1-17). At his ritual immersion in the Jordan, Yeshua was fulfilling all righteousness. As the perfect Jew, the perfect human, he complied with all God’s Law. He was about to enter his ministry as the Great High Priest and therefore fulfilled the legal requirement of priesthood before taking up office. He was not submitting to John’s baptism of repentance; John knew that Yeshua had no need to repent, hence he was unworthy to loosen his sandals. Yeshua’s baptism was ‘the Mikvah of Priestly Service’.

Yeshua was about thirty years old when he was baptised (Luke 3:23). This was the age at which the Levites began their Temple ministry. Our Great High Priest was baptised in order ‘to fulfil all righteousness’. This is to say that the Son of God willingly submitted himself to God the Father’s law code for priestly service. Here we see the humility of Jesus, that humility which is a mark of citizens of the kingdom of heaven, about which John the Baptist preached. John also bore this mark of humility as he recognised himself as unworthy to officiate at the mikvah of the Messiah. By receiving the mikvah ceremony from John Yeshua placed His seal of approval on John’s message and affirmed John’s reclaiming of repentance of sin as the central, but forgotten significance of Old Testament baptism. Numbers 19:7-8 shows the importance of the mikvah ritual in priestly service. In Leviticus 16:4 Aaron, the High Priest had to undergo mikvah before he could wear the sacred clothing and enter the Most Holy Place on the Day of Atonement. In the Mishnah (which records traditions and practices at the time of Christ) it is recorded that the mikvah was compulsory for all Levites serving in the Temple.

As Yeshua prayed at the completion of his mikvah at the Jordan, the heavens opened and God declared, ‘You are My Son, the Beloved; I am delighted in You’ (Luke 3:22). This divine affirmation served Yeshua well during his forty days in the wilderness and the temptation that followed.
https://theopneustos2316.wordpress.com/2014/06/24/... (show quote)


An excellent lesson on baptism!

Reply
Feb 28, 2020 18:47:23   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
"Now, where there is forgiveness of these things, a sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."

In the book of Hebrews, in chapter ten, is a series of implicit contrasts between the sacrifice that Jesus offered for mankind's sin, once for all, to all who would believe and accept, and the repetitious, never ending, animal sacrifices that the Jewish priests had to offer, year after year, for it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away their sins.

This is equally true of baptism, symbolic of cleansing from sin, and the indwelling, sealing for eternity, of the Holy Spirit.

Re: the totality of interest and writing on this subject, the surface is unscratched...

Scholarly consensus is as meaningless among present religious scholars as is the secular affirmation of "Climate Change" academics in today's world as they pursue millions in university grant money to further academic careers, based on nothing knowable.

Only in the Scriptures, is there the eternal truth of the ages.

It is not the Apostle Peter who is stuck in paganistic thought. He advocated salvation through faith in Jesus Christ:

"And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you— not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him. (1st Peter 3:21-22)


Famed Jewish Rabbi and Scholar, Moses Maimonides (1135 A.D.-1204 A.D.), Jewish philosopher, jurist, and physician, the foremost intellectual figure of medieval Judaism: "It is emphasized that the purpose of immersion is not physical, but spiritual, cleanliness."

Maimonides concludes his codification of the laws of the mikveh with the following statement: "It is plain that the laws about immersion as a means of freeing oneself from uncleanness are decrees laid down by Scripture and not matters about which human understanding is capable of forming a judgment; for behold, they are included among the divine statutes.

"Now 'uncleanness' is not mud or filth which water can remove, but is a matter of scriptural decree and dependent on the intention of the heart. Therefore the [Jewish] Sages have said, 'If a man immerses himself, but without special intention, it is as though he has not immersed himself at all.'"

Saul’s name was also Paul. The custom of dual names was common in those days. Acts 13:9 describes the apostle as “Saul, who was also called Paul.” From that verse on, Saul is always referred to in Scripture as “Paul.”

Paul was a Jew, born in the Roman city of Tarsus. He was proud of his Jewish heritage, as he describes in Philippians 3:5: “Circumcised on the eighth day, of the race of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrew parentage, in observance of the law a Pharisee.”

As “the apostle to the Gentiles” (Romans 11:13), he used his Roman name, Paul, as he ministered in the Gentile world, beginning on Cyprus when the Roman proconsul on that island was converted (Acts 13:12).

Paul gave up the use of his Hebrew name, Saul, with its regal connotation and chose to use his Roman name, Paul, meaning “little” or “small,” because he desired to decrease in order to present Christ as increased (cf. John 3:30)

The custom of dual names was well known in the 1st century world of the Bible. Acts 13:9 first describes the Apostle, Saul of Tarsus, as “Saul, who was also called Paul.” From that verse on, Saul is known in Scripture by his interchangeable Roman name, “Paul,” (Romans 11:13) for he was personally appointed by Jesus as “the apostle to the Gentiles.”

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/mikveh

Mikveh (Hebrew, מִקְוֶה), literally translated as a "collection" or "gathering", is a pool or bath of clear water in which immersion renders ritually clean a person who has become ritually unclean.
The idea that the construction of mikva'ot was done in strict accordance and adherence to religious rules and stipulations (such as those debated in the "Chamber of Hewn Stone"; Ed. 7:4) is highly unlikely and finds no support in the archaeological evidence itself.

Hence, the information about mikva'ot as it appears in the tractates of the Mishna and Tosefta should probably be regarded as representing a certain degree of rabbinical idealism rather than the complete reality of empirical practice of mikveh construction that was supposedly passed down through the generations following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.

In many instances the mikva'ot of the Middle Ages served as bathhouses because of the order forbidding Jews to wash in the rivers together with Christians.

The views of the halakhic authorities in all generations differed with reference to many details of the mikveh. From this stemmed the great difference in the ways of building and in the systems of installation

At the beginning of the 21st century, mikveh immersion also frequently constituted a symbolic expression of a new spiritual beginning for both women and men, in all branches of Jewish practice. In addition to conversion to Judaism, rituals have developed incorporating mikveh immersion as part of bar mitzvah and bat mitzvah; prior to marriage for men as well as women; in cases of miscarriage, infertility, and illness; and following divorce, sexual assault, or other life-altering events.

An indication of the probable long-term impact of this trend is the increased construction of mikva'ot by non-Orthodox Jewish communities in North America.

http://www.generationword.com/jerusalem101/39-mikvah-ritual-baths.html

The word “mikvah” (also, mikveh, mikva, miqve) means “collection” and refers to a collection of water that was used by the Jews for ceremonial washing. They are ritual baths. The Jews would purify themselves before several activities or after certain events that made them unclean. Conversion to Judaism requires submersion into a mikvah.

The area around the Temple Mount, especially to the south, is filled with mikvah. Many of them were most likely used on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) to baptize the converted Jews in Jesus’ name. It signified a major change in their understanding of who Jesus was and was a sign of their new faith and allegiance.

A mikvah had to have a source of running water, such as a spring, or fresh water, such as rain. A mikvah had to be large enough to allow an average sized person to immerse his whole body.

Stairs would be used to descend into and ascend from the mikvah. Often there was a wall separating the clean side from the unclean side.



Pennylynn wrote:
You make quite a case...Anyway, there is one difference not given much attention in your post. Or perhaps I do not understand the act of baptism. So, correct me if I am in error.

Baptism, according to Saul happens one time only, unless the baptism was not done right (as he wanted) or was done for wrong reasons (they did not follow his teachings).

Jewish ritual bathing was routine. The cleansing required by the Mosaic Law had to be repeated as often as a worshipper became unclean. This was not true of the baptism John performed nor of that later practiced by Christians. John’s baptism indicated repentance and a rejection of a former life course. Christian baptism symbolized the fact that a person had dedicated himself to God. The Christian did so once, not over and over again. Additionally, Archaeologists digging close to Jerusalem’s Temple Mount discovered nearly 100 ritual baths, or bathing pools, dating to the first century B.C.E. and the first century C.E. A synagogue inscription from the second or third century C.E. speaks of such baths being provided for “visitors who need them.” Other pools have been found in the quarter of Jerusalem that was occupied by wealthy and priestly families; nearly every house had its own private ritual bath. So, inside bathrooms have more in common with Jewish Laws on cleanliness than the baptisms performed by Christians.

Jesus criticized the Pharisees for their insistence on ritual cleansing. They evidently practiced “various baptisms,” including those for “cups and pitchers and copper vessels.” Jesus said that the Pharisees overstepped God’s commandments to impose their own traditions. (Hebrews 9:10; Mark 7:1-9; Leviticus 11:32, 33; Luke 11:38-42) No part of the Mosaic Law required complete bodily immersion.

The Jews performed cleansing rites upon themselves. The baptism John performed, though, was not a kind of ritual bathing familiar to the Jews. That John came to be known as the Baptizer indicates that the immersion he performed was different. Jewish religious leaders even sent a delegation to him to inquire: “Why . . . do you baptize?”​—John 1:25. And John's baptisms required help and an audience.

The ritual bathing performed in the homes of the Jewish priests and in the public baths close to the Temple Mount bore nothing more than a superficial resemblance to Christian baptism. Scholarly consensus holds that John [the Baptizer] did not take over or adapt any particular baptism from his 'milieu,” that is, from Judaism. The same can be said of the baptism practiced in the Christian congregation. Christian baptism represents “the request made to God for a good conscience.” (1 Peter 3:21) It symbolizes that an individual has wholly dedicated himself to Jehovah to serve Him as a disciple of His Son. Complete immersion in water is an appropriate symbol of such a dedication. A person’s going under the water represents his dying to his former life course. Being raised out of the water symbolizes his being made alive to do God’s will.

And, here is the major difference.....Peter could thus tell fellow believers: “Baptism is also now saving you.” That is something that no amount of Jewish ritual bathing could ever achieve. This is pretty much sums up the Pagan attitude on their baptism.
You make quite a case...Anyway, there is one diffe... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 28, 2020 20:46:27   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Zemirah wrote:
"Now, where there is forgiveness of these things, a sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."

In the book of Hebrews, in chapter ten, is a series of implicit contrasts between the sacrifice that Jesus offered for mankind's sin, once for all, to all who would believe and accept, and the repetitious, never ending, animal sacrifices that the Jewish priests had to offer, year after year, for it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away their sins.

This is equally true of baptism, symbolic of cleansing from sin, and the indwelling, sealing for eternity, of the Holy Spirit.

Re: the totality of interest and writing on this subject, the surface is unscratched...

Scholarly consensus is as meaningless among present religious scholars as is the secular affirmation of "Climate Change" academics in today's world as they pursue millions in university grant money to further academic careers, based on nothing knowable.

Only in the Scriptures, is there the eternal truth of the ages.

It is not the Apostle Peter who is stuck in paganistic thought. He advocated salvation through faith in Jesus Christ:

"And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you— not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him. (1st Peter 3:21-22)


Famed Jewish Rabbi and Scholar, Moses Maimonides (1135 A.D.-1204 A.D.), Jewish philosopher, jurist, and physician, the foremost intellectual figure of medieval Judaism: "It is emphasized that the purpose of immersion is not physical, but spiritual, cleanliness."

Maimonides concludes his codification of the laws of the mikveh with the following statement: "It is plain that the laws about immersion as a means of freeing oneself from uncleanness are decrees laid down by Scripture and not matters about which human understanding is capable of forming a judgment; for behold, they are included among the divine statutes.

"Now 'uncleanness' is not mud or filth which water can remove, but is a matter of scriptural decree and dependent on the intention of the heart. Therefore the [Jewish] Sages have said, 'If a man immerses himself, but without special intention, it is as though he has not immersed himself at all.'"

Saul’s name was also Paul. The custom of dual names was common in those days. Acts 13:9 describes the apostle as “Saul, who was also called Paul.” From that verse on, Saul is always referred to in Scripture as “Paul.”

Paul was a Jew, born in the Roman city of Tarsus. He was proud of his Jewish heritage, as he describes in Philippians 3:5: “Circumcised on the eighth day, of the race of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrew parentage, in observance of the law a Pharisee.”

As “the apostle to the Gentiles” (Romans 11:13), he used his Roman name, Paul, as he ministered in the Gentile world, beginning on Cyprus when the Roman proconsul on that island was converted (Acts 13:12).

Paul gave up the use of his Hebrew name, Saul, with its regal connotation and chose to use his Roman name, Paul, meaning “little” or “small,” because he desired to decrease in order to present Christ as increased (cf. John 3:30)

The custom of dual names was well known in the 1st century world of the Bible. Acts 13:9 first describes the Apostle, Saul of Tarsus, as “Saul, who was also called Paul.” From that verse on, Saul is known in Scripture by his interchangeable Roman name, “Paul,” (Romans 11:13) for he was personally appointed by Jesus as “the apostle to the Gentiles.”

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/mikveh

Mikveh (Hebrew, מִקְוֶה), literally translated as a "collection" or "gathering", is a pool or bath of clear water in which immersion renders ritually clean a person who has become ritually unclean.
The idea that the construction of mikva'ot was done in strict accordance and adherence to religious rules and stipulations (such as those debated in the "Chamber of Hewn Stone"; Ed. 7:4) is highly unlikely and finds no support in the archaeological evidence itself.

Hence, the information about mikva'ot as it appears in the tractates of the Mishna and Tosefta should probably be regarded as representing a certain degree of rabbinical idealism rather than the complete reality of empirical practice of mikveh construction that was supposedly passed down through the generations following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.

In many instances the mikva'ot of the Middle Ages served as bathhouses because of the order forbidding Jews to wash in the rivers together with Christians.

The views of the halakhic authorities in all generations differed with reference to many details of the mikveh. From this stemmed the great difference in the ways of building and in the systems of installation

At the beginning of the 21st century, mikveh immersion also frequently constituted a symbolic expression of a new spiritual beginning for both women and men, in all branches of Jewish practice. In addition to conversion to Judaism, rituals have developed incorporating mikveh immersion as part of bar mitzvah and bat mitzvah; prior to marriage for men as well as women; in cases of miscarriage, infertility, and illness; and following divorce, sexual assault, or other life-altering events.

An indication of the probable long-term impact of this trend is the increased construction of mikva'ot by non-Orthodox Jewish communities in North America.

http://www.generationword.com/jerusalem101/39-mikvah-ritual-baths.html

The word “mikvah” (also, mikveh, mikva, miqve) means “collection” and refers to a collection of water that was used by the Jews for ceremonial washing. They are ritual baths. The Jews would purify themselves before several activities or after certain events that made them unclean. Conversion to Judaism requires submersion into a mikvah.

The area around the Temple Mount, especially to the south, is filled with mikvah. Many of them were most likely used on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2) to baptize the converted Jews in Jesus’ name. It signified a major change in their understanding of who Jesus was and was a sign of their new faith and allegiance.

A mikvah had to have a source of running water, such as a spring, or fresh water, such as rain. A mikvah had to be large enough to allow an average sized person to immerse his whole body.

Stairs would be used to descend into and ascend from the mikvah. Often there was a wall separating the clean side from the unclean side.
"Now, where there is forgiveness of these thi... (show quote)


I have much to say about Saul, but I do not wish to insult the Pauline Christians who may not appreciate the inconsistencies between what Jesus taught and Saul's religion. As for ritual bathing and your copied/pasted replies, suffice to say, we will never agree. Ergo, I respect your right to believe as you need.

Reply
 
 
Feb 28, 2020 22:19:19   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
I equally respect your freedom of belief and expression.

As one who initially accessed the earliest existence of the internet on the older IBM DOS programs in the mid 1970s for the purpose of daily Inventory Control in a multi-branch, two state company, modern computers are a technological miracle that made the barely bearable a pleasure.

Thank God for Bill Gates "Windows 95" which first gave us the ability to "cut and paste."


Pennylynn wrote:
I have much to say about Saul, but I do not wish to insult the Pauline Christians who may not appreciate the inconsistencies between what Jesus taught and Saul's religion. As for ritual bathing and your copied/pasted replies, suffice to say, we will never agree. Ergo, I respect your right to believe as you need.

Reply
Feb 28, 2020 22:46:36   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Zemirah wrote:
I equally respect your freedom of belief and expression.

As one who initially accessed the earliest existence of the internet on the older IBM DOS programs in the mid 1970s for the purpose of daily Inventory Control in a multi-branch, two state company, modern computers are a technological miracle that made the barely bearable a pleasure.

Thank God for Bill Gates "Windows 95" which first gave us the ability to "cut and paste."
I equally respect your freedom of belief and expre... (show quote)


Thank you.

Personally, I do not thank G*d for the invention of cut and paste, it removes people from books, honest research, and enforces the notion that if you read it on the internet, it must be well researched "truth." But, we have become intellectually lazy using any and all shortcuts.

Reply
Feb 29, 2020 04:10:32   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
The intellectually uninspired whom I've observed would not research the internet for valid answers any more readily or effectively than they would dig through a stack of indexed books in the comfort of their home.

I don't do e-books because I like the feel of the book in my hands, and still average the purchase of ten to twenty books monthly, however many of the classic reference works I've spent forty years collecting are now available on the internet.

It saves immeasurable time to cut and paste the same information online, that I use to tediously type from a book propped on the computer table.

This results in more topics investigated for my own edification and amusement, and more answered online.

The sources and documentation for most articles and essays are also now available online.

This week, I've found online the known side effects of a new prescription, with recommended substitute prescriptions,
a recipe for a gluten-free spinach souffle,
the twenty highest rated neurologists in town, and
a china/porcelain company that has in their inventory a replacement lid for a footed soup tureen with ladle I've had for over fifty years.

Hardly earthshaking, but this is a most efficient and productive use of my time.


Pennylynn wrote:
Thank you.

Personally, I do not thank G*d for the invention of cut and paste, it removes people from books, honest research, and enforces the notion that if you read it on the internet, it must be well researched "truth." But, we have become intellectually lazy using any and all shortcuts.

Reply
Feb 29, 2020 04:54:59   #
Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone
 
Zemirah wrote:
The intellectually uninspired whom I've observed would not research the internet for valid answers any more readily or effectively than they would dig through a stack of indexed books in the comfort of their home.

I don't do e-books because I like the feel of the book in my hands, and still average the purchase of ten to twenty books monthly, however many of the classic reference works I've spent forty years collecting are now available on the internet.

It saves immeasurable time to cut and paste the same information online, that I use to tediously type from a book propped on the computer table.

This results in more topics investigated for my own edification and amusement, and more answered online.

The sources and documentation for most articles and essays are also now available online.

This week, I've found online the known side effects of a new prescription, with recommended substitute prescriptions,
a recipe for a gluten-free spinach souffle,
the twenty highest rated neurologists in town, and
a china/porcelain company that has in their inventory a replacement lid for a footed soup tureen with ladle I've had for over fifty years.

Hardly earthshaking, but this is a most efficient and productive use of my time.
The intellectually uninspired whom I've observed w... (show quote)


So, I am communicating with an intellectual superior.....and a collector of antiquities. How very pedestrian my responses must seem to you. Now I will take the advice of my Poppa, a Rabbi, who told me "Being right isn’t nearly as important as knowing when to shut up." I will now ignore this thread, I hope someone will join you who is not, how did you put it "intellectually uninspired" as you apparently see me. Sorry to have wasted your time.

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