Cuda2020

Well said, and that is the exact point.

proud republican Loc: RED CALIFORNIA

I'm sorry SU, if you got here illegally,you already committed a crime!! But let me go further Sanctuary cities protect criminals,not law abiding citizens !! Case in point 92 year old lady was raped and murdered by a criminal who was here illegally , thanks to Sanctuary cities policy!! How many innocent people were murdered by i******s who weren't supposed to be here ?? And please don't tell me that citizens murder too.You are right and so we don't need i******s here murder American citizens!! This bill will be disester!!! It will be an invitation to all people who J want to come here and hurt people !!! And I'm sure 100% that President Trump will not sign this stupidity into the law!!!

straightUp Loc: California

Good for you, 'cause I don't think you even looked at it.


See, if you studied the bill enough to know what you're talking about you would know it seeks to repeal laws that never even applied to citizens in the first place. What you just said is no less absurd than opposing the abolition of s***ery because it doesn't do the same thing for white people who are already free.

This is what Tucker Carlson is really good at, spinning things so people will come to really stupid conclusions. Obviously, it works on you.

Cuda2020

People in sanctuary cities are not criminals, they are refugees looking for sanctuary, hence the name and are waiting a ridiculous amount of time to get processed and in the interim are inhumanely treated and being stripped from their families.

How many people are murdered by legal citizens in this gun-crazed country? So yeah we will tell you that. If they put as much effort and money getting the refugees processed rather then walls, prisons and sanctuary cities this problem wouldn't be here.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Some interesting points.


https://poorrichardsnews.com/new-way-forward-act-h-r-5383-immigrantjusticenetwork-org-jesus-chuy-garcia/

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Navigator

You don't fully comprehend and to do so you need to go back, way back. Have you ever asked yourself why laws were passed that called for mandatory deportations of i*****l a***ns who are convicted of serious crimes? At some point our judicial system, incorrectly, lost its awareness that illegal entry into the US is itself a crime and subjects the illegal to deportation upon being discovered; there should be no need for an illegal to commit additional crimes in order to be deported. Far from being treated like an "animal" an i*****l a***n deported is merely being subjected to appropriate legal process.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Actually some are criminals. Especially if you define criminal as one who breaks the law. The ridiculous amount of time is correct. That ridiculous amount of time has been going on way before Trump. This entire immigration mess is the fault of Congress. They’ve played with immigrant lives for decades. Sanctuary cities are not illegal because states cannot be forced to enforce Federal law. However; The President, as the chief law enforcement officer in the country is charged with enforcing Federal Law. The murder argument is a straw man argument. Obviously if an illegal that murdered someone had never been allowed in he couldn’t have committed the murder.
Immigrants are not inhumanely treated. That’s ridiculous. As high as 36% of children crossing the border have been found to be trafficked. What is inhumane is d**gging them thousands of miles and paying cartels to help. We need more judges, and faster processing times. You are 100% correct on that. For that to work we need to stop immigrants from coming in illegally. After all, if your sink was running over you wouldn’t mop the floor until you turned off the sink. Right?

straightUp Loc: California

That doesn't have ANY bearing on my argument. We're not talking about whether someone is guilty of a crime and the New Way Forward Act isn't either.

Do you understand the constitutional Amendments I mentioned? Do you even understand the concept of cruel and unusual punishment? None of these pillars of our republic question the guilt of criminals, they ALL assume a guilty verdict and apply protections to the convicted.



It's so sad to see people get so triggered by that kind of propaganda. Yes, to an extent you can blame sanctuary for the murder of a citizen by a protected i*****l a***n but by the same token you can also blame the murder of a citizen by another citizen who would have been aborted had it not been for anti-a******n pressure. Is that fair? No, it's not but it's no different than your example. You are blaming an individual's action on a policy that has nothing to do with the crime.

And yes, most murders are committed by U.S. citizens, not immigrants, not even i*****l i*******ts. Stereotyping i*****l i*******ts as dangerous criminals is an excuse for bigotry and nothing more. I'm not saying that is the case with you... Some people are good at heart but easily manipulated by the fear created by those bigots.

All I can really say here is if you support these extreme i*********n l*ws that Trump is pushing because you think i*****l i*******ts are dangerous, you don't have the courage to handle a free country.

straightUp Loc: California

So, let me get this straight... you are responding to my post where I go all the way back to the 13th century roots of common law which our legal system is based on to tell me that I have to go WAY back to the rationale behind i*********n l*ws that didn't even exist until the 20th century? Sorry man, I gotta laugh at that one.

But to answer your question, yes, I have asked myself that question. You are referring to a part of the new bill that I haven't mentioned yet, so I'm not sure what you are basing your accusation on.



This is where I point out that YOU are the one who doesn't fully comprehend the situation. First of all, our judicial system has never lost it's awareness that "improper entry" into the U.S. is a crime.

That being said, there are exceptions to the law that the Trump administration has incorrectly ignored, such as something called 'Defense of Infancy", which is based on yet another 13th century rule of common law called doli incapax. The basic idea is that children can't be guilty of crimes they are too young to understand. Even in those dark barbaric days, people were apparently more humane than Trump.

So let me put this together for you...

1. It is NOT illegal for undocumented immigrants to BE in the U.S. The basis for calling them "illegal" is the assumption that to BE in the U.S. an immigrant would have had to cross our border and if they don't do it legally it's considered "improper entry", which *IS* a crime.

2. But if the immigrant is a baby being carried across the border by his mother, it's fair to assume he is too young to understand the crime and can therefore be defended by our legal Defense of Infancy.

3. Even if after that baby grows to adulthood he is innocent of crime so long as he stays within the borders because again, it's not illegal to BE in the U.S.

4. Obama recognized this legal predicament and asked Congress to legislate a solution as to what to do in these particular cases (childhood arrivals).

5. Congress refused to act, so Obama signed an executive order to defer action on childhood arrivals until
Congress can get their thumbs out of their asses. The executive order is aptly called "deferred action on childhood arrivals (DACA).

6. Congress never did take any action and they probably won't until the Democrats take over. Meanwhile, Trump has been doing everything possible to k**l DACA and subject childhood arrivals, many of whom have grown up and established families in the U.S. to deportation because of a crime they have unjustly been accused of.

7. After a century of i*********n l*ws it was only AFTER Trump attacked DACA that cities across the nation rightfully decided to resist with declarations of sanctuary.

So, the bottom line is... Sanctuary cities are refusing to yield to Trump because HE is the one breaking the rules and tearing families apart in the process and yes... treating them like animals.

Now, I understand that some people are nasty bigots... Some of them just straight up h**e immigrants (that's always been a problem in America) and these bigots will try to stereotype immigrants by their worst examples while ignoring the legal defense of infancy or the legal difference between BEING in the U.S. and ENTERING the U.S. and their rants are parroted right here on OPP all too often.

Mike Easterday

I have a new way forward. Deport Demonrats!

straightUp Loc: California

Yes, *some* of them are, most are not.


Again, I quite agree. However it's the inhumane treatment in the meantime that Barracuda mentioned that makes a huge difference here. THAT didn't start happening until Trump took over.


Again, I find myself in agreement with you, so long as we aren't including the human rights violations incurred by the Trump administration as part of the "mess".


100%


Aw man, you were doing so well. Look, I know right-wing media downplays it (actually they deny it), but the fact is the U.S. rarely ever made the list of human rights violations until Trump took over immigration enforcement and for the past several years the U.S. has actually surpassed Iran in that category and pretty much all those violations stem from Trump's treatment of immigrants. So YOU might think it's a ridiculous claim, but human rights organizations like Amnesty International and Red Cross disagree with you.


I agree, that's ANOTHER example of inhumanity but then again, trafficking children is not being done by order of the U.S. government (as far as we know).


...Or you could remove the plug so the sink doesn't run over in the first place, right? The analogy here relates to the fact that our system can't handle the flow because we are so anal about immigration. We are in t***h creating our own problem by putting too many restrictions on the flow. Immigration has ALWAYS been good for America; a nation that was literally built by immigrants, so really - WTF is the problem?

All we really need to do is check for criminal records and contagion and that can be done by local authorities or even private companies as easily as the federal government. There is no reason for having a plug in the drain other than the bigotry that has plagued American culture for way too long.

straightUp Loc: California

LOL - Yeah, you probably don't want to do that. For the last 40 years America has depended on Democrats to clean up the mess Republicans get us in. Deport the Democrats and watch the U.S, turn into a 3rd world s-hole in less than 20 years. Guarantee you. Besides, where do you think Trump would be right now if not for this vibrant economy that Obama gave us?

dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA

fullspinzoo

Clean up what mess? what are you talking about? you mean like the doubling of the deficit in 8 years, businesses going under because of all the regs, the economy sluggish at best during that same period....and the list goes on.