Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

While talking with a Muslim friend the topic of angels came up... Not entirely clear how we got to it, but we began discussing whether Aangels were capable of sin and if so how they could be allowed in the presence of God...

It was an interesting conversation... That we hope to pick up again... And we have both agreed to search for scriptures that will illuminate...

Any help would be appreciated...

God bless...

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

At Christ's birth a host heavenly Angel's sang. There are other references. I personally believe that good music is a gift from God and the beauty in good music often brings tears to our eyes.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Correction!!!!!

The title should read - Can Angels Sin

Sin!

Stupid auto correct...

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Apologies Padre... Can angels sin?

archie bunker Loc: Texas

Can they sin, or can they sing?

I just ask because Mrs. Bunker is an angel, and a sinner.
Her singing sucks!

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Thanks for the help Arch

How's your baritone?

archie bunker Loc: Texas

I can do baritone!

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

I figured you for a baritone...

Would have guessed bass before...

Certainly not a soprano

archie bunker Loc: Texas

I can do soprano, but ice cubes, or a vice is needed.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

Those Angels that sinned are with Satan and we call them demons. Heavenly angels cannot sin because no creature or Spirit with sin can be in the presence of God. Human beings, contrary to popular opinion, are never diminished to the state of becoming angels.

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

How did Satan commit sin?

And is there scripture to back this?

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

Job makes a stunning argument; "Can a mortal be more righteous than G*d, or can a man be purer than his Maker? Behold, He does not trust His servants and He casts reproach upon His angels." Jacob also has a dream or vision: "And he dreamed, and behold, a ladder set up on the ground and its top reached to heaven; and behold, angels of G*d were ascending and descending upon it." In another story of Lot, the angles gave themselves credit (recall, this sin kept Moses from entering the Promised Land), "For we are destroying this place, because their cry has become great before the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it."

Punishment implies sin. In the verses above, these angels were punished. Ergo, in my faith, although angels' have a sinless nature, they are not robots who can not think or act in their own fashion.

Rabbi Yeshaya Halevi Horowitz in his classic Shnei Luchot HaBrit (Shelah), provides an explanation. He concedes that angels do not have an evil inclination and, therefore, cannot sin in the conventional meaning of the word, deliberately contravening the will of their Creator. However, angels are creations of G‑d just like any other creation, albeit more spiritual and intellectually inclined creatures who live on a much higher plane than we do. By definition, there is no creation that is perfect; the only one that is perfect is the Creator. Every created being, even the highest intellect, in some way conceals the ultimate reality. Therefore, although an angel cannot sin, it can nevertheless make a mistake or at least present a distortion of the truth."

Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall

Thanks... This is good material... Appreciate it


Is Satan considered a fallen angel in Judiasm?

Boo_Boo Loc: Jellystone

No. Satan is not talked about in the "Old Testament." The devil or aka satan first appeared when Jesus' was tested after he was baptized. Then briefly mentioned in John. He was an adversary in Revelations, but the man who made him into a bogeyman was Saul, aka Paul. It was not until around 500AD that he was credited with god-like powers.

rumitoid

Good fodder for thought.