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What awaits our country when President Trump wins his reelection???
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Jan 24, 2020 17:58:23   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
bylm1-Bernie wrote:
Let me ask YOU a question regarding calling witnesses: Which side had the option of calling witnesses during the so-called impeachment hearing and which side refused to call more witnesses? Which side was it that said they have OVERWHELMING proof that Trump has committed high crimes and who now wants to call more witnesses?

That's TWO questions ;)

Answer #1: The House had the option to call more witnesses but felt they had enough to make a case and prosecute. Which is the full extent of their power and their responsibility. In the interest of time, they delivered the article of impeachment to Senate to start the actual trial.

Answer #2: The House Managers taking part in the Senate trial also feel there is abundant evidence to suggest that Trump should be convicted, but it's the Senate's responsibility to weight that evidence.

Do you understand the difference? Think of it this way... a cop can detain you on suspicion based on something called probable cause. But what evidence is sufficient for probable cause might not be enough for conviction.

In the trial it is crucial that ALL the evidence is weighed because this is the part of the process that determines a final judgement - a conviction or acquittal. The House is the cop in this analogy, all they needed to bring the case to trial is probable cause.

bylm1-Bernie wrote:

Which side is it that is going to try to use that against the Republicans by saying they don't want to call witnesses?

Well, that's a no-brainer. It's the Constitutional duty for Senate to weigh the evidence. If they don't I seriously think we need to start impeaching the Senate leaders.

bylm1-Bernie wrote:

Do you think the Democrats, with the aid of their accomplices in the media, are going to be able to sell this to the American voters, much less to Senators?

Yes, I do. The question is, will the Senator vote their conscience or will they be bullied by the Freedom Caucus into siding with Trump? As for the American voters, the lines are already drawn. 51% of us think Trump should be impeached. Personally, I don't think it should stop there. I think once out of office Trump should be tried in a criminal court.

bylm1-Bernie wrote:

Do you think that your little accusatory innuendos are really going to sway anyone?

Not here LOL. But I'm not trying to either, I'm just expressing my views.

bylm1-Bernie wrote:

Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler are in the process of making complete fools of themselves before the entire Country and I'm sure most Democrats are happy that more people are watching this crap.

That's a matter of perception Bernie... From my perspective Schiff is making fools of the Republicans... in a big way. I'm sure at least 51% of the American people agree with me.

bylm1-Bernie wrote:

I simply cannot believe that the Dems are trying to make this flimsy case in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Evidence? Such as?

bylm1-Bernie wrote:

You may have noticed that they are not using any economic statistics or opinions expressed by foreign leaders at Davos who spoke favorably of Trump and the US policies. Of course one wouldn't really expect them to commit political suicide, would one?

Why would the economy be a factor? We already know Obama turned the economy around 6 years ago and it's been booming ever since. So, are you saying that a president can violate the Constitution but if the economy happens to be good, he should be excused?

Ha, ha... what kind of ideology is THAT?

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Jan 24, 2020 18:18:36   #
Seth
 
straightUp wrote:
Well, he's right so far... and maybe that's why he did it - who knows? I doubt any party can hold its ground for 200 years though.

Fun fact : did you know the predecessor to the Democratic Party was called the Democratic-Republican Party and that people just called them Republicans? That was during the First Party System.

Dynamics my friend, it's a thing.


Yup, knew about the Dem-Rep thing.

I also grew up in a solid Democrat family, and having been born in the mid- 1950s, listened to political dinner table conversation through the 1960s, voted Democrat into Carter's administration.

Today's Democratic Party is a complete reversal of itself from those days, and it seems that it exists solely to transform America into the antithesis of all that this country was founded to be.

As far as civil rights and other social situations are concerned, our system of government, as it was founded, eventually fixes problems -- the Democratic Party is no longer interested in fixing such things nor does it acknowledge when they have been fixed, preferring to use them as endless problems that "only they can address" because these issues are the "fault of the racist, for the rich, fascist Republicans" and milk them for political gain, no matter who suffers as a result.

Your claiming that the media has, "with the exception of FOX," such integrity is laughable -- they have become nothing more than a propaganda ministry for the Democrats, a machine that completely ignores or downplays or villifies every single thing Trump does that benefits America and Americans, while it it weren't for FOX, voters would lose our premier source of information on the realities of this president's accomplishments (you know, those you folks on the left pretend never happen), although most would have their suspicions since even a lying media and a lot of lying Democrat politicians can't conceal the tangible positive changes in their lives that the Democrats seem to be telling them that they're only imagining.

The deeper the MSM and the Democrats pile it on, the farther they erode the trust of the American public who realize, among other things, that these portsiders are insulting their intelligence.

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Jan 24, 2020 18:33:51   #
Dwight Logan
 
proud republican wrote:
I think it would be Holly Hell!!!!!!


Holly hell has nothing to do with hell. Hell ain't holy.

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Jan 24, 2020 19:15:26   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Seth wrote:
Yup, knew about the Dem-Rep thing.

I also grew up in a solid Democrat family, and having been born in the mid- 1950s, listened to political dinner table conversation through the 1960s, voted Democrat into Carter's administration.

Today's Democratic Party is a complete reversal of itself from those days, and it seems that it exists solely to transform America into the antithesis of all that this country was founded to be.

As far as civil rights and other social situations are concerned, our system of government, as it was founded, eventually fixes problems -- the Democratic Party is no longer interested in fixing such things nor does it acknowledge when they have been fixed, preferring to use them as endless problems that "only they can address" because these issues are the "fault of the racist, for the rich, fascist Republicans" and milk them for political gain, no matter who suffers as a result.

Your claiming that the media has, "with the exception of FOX," such integrity is laughable -- they have become nothing more than a propaganda ministry for the Democrats, a machine that completely ignores or downplays or villifies every single thing Trump does that benefits America and Americans, while it it weren't for FOX, voters would lose our premier source of information on the realities of this president's accomplishments (you know, those you folks on the left pretend never happen), although most would have their suspicions since even a lying media and a lot of lying Democrat politicians can't conceal the tangible positive changes in their lives that the Democrats seem to be telling them that they're only imagining.

The deeper the MSM and the Democrats pile it on, the farther they erode the trust of the American public who realize, among other things, that these portsiders are insulting their intelligence.
Yup, knew about the Dem-Rep thing. br br I also g... (show quote)


"Your claiming that the media has, "with the exception of FOX," such integrity is laughable -- they have become nothing more than a propaganda ministry for the Democrats, a machine that completely ignores or downplays or villifies every single thing Trump does that benefits America and Americans, while it it weren't for FOX, voters would lose our premier source of information on the realities of this president's accomplishments (you know, those you folks on the left pretend never happen), although most would have their suspicions since even a lying media and a lot of lying Democrat politicians can't conceal the tangible positive changes in their lives that the Democrats seem to be telling them that they're only imagining.

The deeper the MSM and the Democrats pile it on, the farther they erode the trust of the American public who realize, among other things, that these portsiders are insulting their intelligence."- Seth

Yep.
It gets more apparent week by week.
The Dems are outing them selves.

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Jan 24, 2020 19:35:25   #
Seth
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"Your claiming that the media has, "with the exception of FOX," such integrity is laughable -- they have become nothing more than a propaganda ministry for the Democrats, a machine that completely ignores or downplays or villifies every single thing Trump does that benefits America and Americans, while it it weren't for FOX, voters would lose our premier source of information on the realities of this president's accomplishments (you know, those you folks on the left pretend never happen), although most would have their suspicions since even a lying media and a lot of lying Democrat politicians can't conceal the tangible positive changes in their lives that the Democrats seem to be telling them that they're only imagining.

The deeper the MSM and the Democrats pile it on, the farther they erode the trust of the American public who realize, among other things, that these portsiders are insulting their intelligence."- Seth

Yep.
It gets more apparent week by week.
The Dems are outing them selves.
"Your claiming that the media has, "with... (show quote)


The way the Democrats are going, Republicans soon won't even have to bother campaigning -- the Democrats will be doing all their campaigning for them.

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Jan 24, 2020 21:10:59   #
bylm1-Bernie
 
straightUp wrote:
Why would the economy be a factor? We already know Obama turned the economy around 6 years ago and it's been booming ever since. So, are you saying that a president can violate the Constitution but if the economy happens to be good, he should be excused?

Ha, ha... what kind of ideology is THAT?


Your defense of this charade is no better than what the Dems are putting up. In listening to those who know, unbiased lawyers that is, the House has made a joke of this. You libs and your TDS is getting in the way of your reasoning. We'll see what happens but if the Senate knuckles under to this group of misfits, I will be very disappointed to say the least. I say when you're winning put the petal to the metal. MAGA.

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Jan 24, 2020 21:20:00   #
debeda
 
Dwight Logan wrote:
Holly hell has nothing to do with hell. Hell ain't holy.



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Jan 24, 2020 21:20:58   #
debeda
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"Your claiming that the media has, "with the exception of FOX," such integrity is laughable -- they have become nothing more than a propaganda ministry for the Democrats, a machine that completely ignores or downplays or villifies every single thing Trump does that benefits America and Americans, while it it weren't for FOX, voters would lose our premier source of information on the realities of this president's accomplishments (you know, those you folks on the left pretend never happen), although most would have their suspicions since even a lying media and a lot of lying Democrat politicians can't conceal the tangible positive changes in their lives that the Democrats seem to be telling them that they're only imagining.

The deeper the MSM and the Democrats pile it on, the farther they erode the trust of the American public who realize, among other things, that these portsiders are insulting their intelligence."- Seth

Yep.
It gets more apparent week by week.
The Dems are outing them selves.
"Your claiming that the media has, "with... (show quote)

Too true

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Jan 24, 2020 21:21:48   #
debeda
 
bylm1-Bernie wrote:
Your defense of this charade is no better than what the Dems are putting up. In listening to those who know, unbiased lawyers that is, the House has made a joke of this. You libs and your TDS is getting in the way of your reasoning. We'll see what happens but if the Senate knuckles under to this group of misfits, I will be very disappointed to say the least. I say when you're winning put the petal to the metal. MAGA.


YES

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Jan 25, 2020 00:48:44   #
rumitoid
 
proud republican wrote:
I think it would be Holly Hell!!!!!!


In a word, tyranny.

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Jan 25, 2020 02:18:56   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
Seth wrote:
Yup, knew about the Dem-Rep thing.

I also grew up in a solid Democrat family, and having been born in the mid- 1950s, listened to political dinner table conversation through the 1960s, voted Democrat into Carter's administration.

Today's Democratic Party is a complete reversal of itself from those days, and it seems that it exists solely to transform America into the antithesis of all that this country was founded to be.

Well, I agree with the first part, yes, the Democratic Party is now a complete reversal of itself. That's what I've been saying the whole time. Honestly, I don't know how people continue to deny there was a switch when they actually lived through it. "Were you Democrat then?" "Yes." "Are you Democrat now?" "No." "Did you change your principals? No? Then... the *party* switched.


Seth wrote:

As far as civil rights and other social situations are concerned, our system of government, as it was founded, eventually fixes problems -- the Democratic Party is no longer interested in fixing such things nor does it acknowledge when they have been fixed, preferring to use them as endless problems that "only they can address" because these issues are the "fault of the racist, for the rich, fascist Republicans" and milk them for political gain, no matter who suffers as a result.
br As far as civil rights and other social situat... (show quote)

Yeah I know Seth, it's not like I've never heard this rant before. I'll just go right to the premise... No, the system of government, as it was founded, does NOT eventually fix everything. Some people will use those words to polish up the rough surface of the real suggestion that the government won't step in the way if anyone else wants to fix a problem. So, small government... unless you're a Federalist, then a sort-of-small-government-kind-of... otherwise, hands-off and let the states take care of their own problems.

This leads to a second flaw in your assessment... the system, "as founded" is not being used as directed. Instead, the federal government has been interfering with states fixing their own problems. The severity of this can be seen in the abundance of federal laws overriding state laws to settle matters that are not enumerated in the Constitution, such as the prohibition of pot.

I disagree with the whole idea of trying to operate a government the same exact way across multiple centuries. It's like expecting your 12 year son to keep wearing the same clothes he got when he was five. I mean c'mon - when our system of government was being founded, sick people were still being treated with leeches.

I agree with Jefferson, when he said every generation should have it's own constitution. The ideas of freedom and justice are not unique to American culture - in fact it's pretty universal. You really have to search hard for countries that don't pay some homage to these principles in their founding documents. So I don't think a re-written constitution would be a threat to our current liberties.


Seth wrote:

Your claiming that the media has, "with the exception of FOX," such integrity is laughable -- they have become nothing more than a propaganda ministry for the Democrats, a machine that completely ignores or downplays or villifies every single thing Trump does that benefits America and Americans, while it it weren't for FOX, voters would lose our premier source of information on the realities of this president's accomplishments (you know, those you folks on the left pretend never happen), although most would have their suspicions since even a lying media and a lot of lying Democrat politicians can't conceal the tangible positive changes in their lives that the Democrats seem to be telling them that they're only imagining.
br Your claiming that the media has, "with t... (show quote)

It's amazing how you fit yourself right into that stereotype of the conservative that latches onto the nipples of Fox News. Murdoch himself once described the key to his initial success. He explained that verification makes journalism expensive and that unverified commentary was a cheaper alternative. (I would add that unverified commentary is also a more flexible one, allowing for some creative elaborations that might appeal more to the consumer.) So Murdoch cut costs by presenting unverified commentary, as "news". When competitors cried foul it went right to the courts where the ruling has since stood that "news does not have to be true".

And THIS is the network YOU think is most trustworthy.

Seth wrote:

The deeper the MSM and the Democrats pile it on, the farther they erode the trust of the American public who realize, among other things, that these portsiders are insulting their intelligence.

The media never insults anyone's intelligence Seth... The media gives the people what they ask for and there *IS* a market for intelligent people. There is also a market for people who just want affirmation, even if it means calling all those other markets "fake news".

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Jan 25, 2020 02:26:30   #
straightUp Loc: California
 
bylm1-Bernie wrote:
Your defense of this charade is no better than what the Dems are putting up.

Well, that's a pretty high bar, so I'll take that as a compliment.

bylm1-Bernie wrote:

In listening to those who know, unbiased lawyers that is, the House has made a joke of this.

"Unbiased" doesn't just mean they agree with you.

bylm1-Bernie wrote:

You libs and your TDS is getting in the way of your reasoning. We'll see what happens but if the Senate knuckles under to this group of misfits, I will be very disappointed to say the least. I say when you're winning put the petal to the metal. MAGA.

MAGA means Make Aryans Great Again, right?

| Reply
Jan 25, 2020 07:01:49   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
straightUp wrote:
MAGA means Make Aryans Great Again, right?


"MAGA means Make Aryans Great Again, right?" - sUp

Now we can see who the real racist is!

A limey with a touch of grapefruit.

| Reply
Jan 25, 2020 08:41:45   #
Seth
 
straightUp wrote:
The media never insults anyone's intelligence Seth... The media gives the people what they ask for and there *IS* a market for intelligent people. There is also a market for people who just want affirmation, even if it means calling all those other markets "fake news".


To cut to the chase, your "journalism" education must have been quite interesting.

There was a time, not too many decades ago, when real journalists and their editors understood that theirs was a very high calling, that getting at the truth was the priority and let the chips fall where they may. Let readers form their own political opinions. That's the news pages.

They understood that where "shaping public opinion" is concerned, there were pages for that as well -- editorial pages, op-ed pages...

Unfortunately, what you seem to view as acceptable journalism is mixing the two.

While FOX is conservative, they criticize Republicans when they disagree with them, while the "liberal" media totally ignores or supports every left winger's most outrageous deeds.

FOX also informs their viewers of the many positive accomplishments of the Trump Administration that you and the MSM ignore, baselessly (lies included) criticize or downplay -- the dumb part of that is that the American people as a whole are experiencing the realities while the MSM and the Democrats tell them, in effect, that they're stupid because the lower taxes, better compensation and plethora of employment options they're experiencing first hand that weren't available during Obama's presidency are just figments of their imagination.

Like I said, insulting their intelligence.

Where and when I grew up, I had a couple of friends whose father's were newspaper men, one a NYT reporter and another a Daily News columnist, and being interested in journalism (in all types of writing) I used to chat with their fathers about it. This was before both papers became left wing rags, when the NYT was a serious news source and not a stooge system for the Democratic Party. Back then, they were all about busting their butts to get the facts for their news pages.

Not any more.

The mainstream media has taken a once honorable profession and demeaned it to the point where any reasonably intelligent reader or viewer can see "Democrat propaganda" flashing in bright neon over every "report."

Speaking for myself, with investigations, mostly highly involved ones, as part of my livelihood, I understand fully what it often takes to get to the truth of a matter, and at one time, so did any journalist who wasn't just a seedy hack. There is more often than not a lot of work involved and anyone who goes into an investigation with the goal of reporting a specific conclusion rather than letting the facts (the truth) comprise a final report has no business "investigating."

Today's so-called "journalists" of the legacy media uniformly approach every single subject in the capacity of soldiers in the War on TrumpĀ®, and the truth figures very low in their final product.

That's the way of it. Deny it all you want, justify the biased garbage produced by the "liberal" mainstream media all you want, but the truth speaks for itself.

| Reply
Jan 25, 2020 08:50:41   #
byronglimish Loc: Lapine Oregon
 
Seth wrote:
To cut to the chase, your "journalism" education must have been quite interesting.

There was a time, not too many decades ago, when real journalists and their editors understood that theirs was a very high calling, that getting at the truth was the priority and let the chips fall where they may. Let readers form their own political opinions. That's the news pages.

They understood that where "shaping public opinion" is concerned, there were pages for that as well -- editorial pages, op-ed pages...

Unfortunately, what you seem to view as acceptable journalism is mixing the two.

While FOX is conservative, they criticize Republicans when they disagree with them, while the "liberal" media totally ignores or supports every left winger's most outrageous deeds.

FOX also informs their viewers of the many positive accomplishments of the Trump Administration that you and the MSM ignore, baselessly (lies included) criticize or downplay -- the dumb part of that is that the American people as a whole are experiencing the realities while the MSM and the Democrats tell them, in effect, that they're stupid because the lower taxes, better compensation and plethora of employment options they're experiencing first hand that weren't available during Obama's presidency are just figments of their imagination.

Like I said, insulting their intelligence.

Where and when I grew up, I had a couple of friends whose father's were newspaper men, one a NYT reporter and another a Daily News columnist, and being interested in journalism (in all types of writing) I used to chat with their fathers about it. This was before both papers became left wing rags, when the NYT was a serious news source and not a stooge system for the Democratic Party. Back then, they were all about busting their butts to get the facts for their news pages.

Not any more.

The mainstream media has taken a once honorable profession and demeaned it to the point where any reasonably intelligent reader or viewer can see "Democrat propaganda" flashing in bright neon over every "report."

Speaking for myself, with investigations, mostly highly involved ones, as part of my livelihood, I understand fully what it often takes to get to the truth of a matter, and at one time, so did any journalist who wasn't just a seedy hack. There is more often than not a lot of work involved and anyone who goes into an investigation with the goal of reporting a specific conclusion rather than letting the facts (the truth) comprise a final report has no business "investigating."

Today's so-called "journalists" of the legacy media uniformly approach every single subject in the capacity of soldiers in the War on TrumpĀ®, and the truth figures very low in their final product.

That's the way of it. Deny it all you want, justify the biased garbage produced by the "liberal" mainstream media all you want, but the truth speaks for itself.
To cut to the chase, your "journalism" e... (show quote)



Truth!!

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