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The difference between patriotism and nationalism
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Jan 14, 2020 19:43:51   #
dtucker300 Loc: Vista, CA
 
ACP45 wrote:
Quote:
If a border is where each nation's ambition should stop, is it really necessary for the US to have it's special forces deployed in 138 nations, and military bases in 63 countries?*
Your Comment:
Our overseas bases are subject to SFAs with the host country. We have a Navy with ships on all the world's oceans to keep them free and open for all countries who abide by international laws. We also prevent piracy.
My Response:
I don't know what an SFA is, but I suspect that it is an agreement between the US and the host country on our use of a military base in that country. Question for you. What if the host country requests that the US close that base and withdraw it's host troops from that country. Will we honor their request?

"On Thursday Iraqi Prime Minister Mahdi phoned Pompeo to urgently request that Washington enact a US troop “withdrawal mechanism” in Iraq. American troops are in Iraq by invitation of the Iraqi government and the Iraqi government had just voted to revoke that invitation.

The State Department responded with a statement titled “The US Continued Partnership with Iraq,” in which it essentially said that the US would not abide by the request of its Iraqi partners because the US military is a “force for good” in the Middle East and that as such it is “our right” to maintain “appropriate force posture” in the region." https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/01/ron-paul/us-to-iraq-vote-all-you-want-were-not-leaving/

How about the situation in Syria. The US established several military bases without Syria's permission, and against Syria's will. We continue to occupy THEIR oil field, and deny them the use of THEIR oil. How do you reconcile the border argument in these two cases?
========================

Quote:
At what point does Nationalism morph into Imperialism?
Your Comment:
When they try to annex other lands, peoples, and countries. What has America tried to annex lately?

My Response:
I don't disagree with your answer, but I would expand the actions that you listed to include CIA coups against Iran, Venezuela, Cuba, etc., destabilization attempts like Syria, numerous false flag events, foreign interference in the elections of other countries, punishing sanctions on other countries in an attempt to force the population into regime change. These are all actions that go outside our border and interfere with another nations sovereignty.
Quote: br If a border is where each nation's ambit... (show quote)


SFA's are what you surmised; Status of Forces Agreements.

My answers weren't good enough? Not specific enough? Now you want to stretch into limbo-land ad infinitum which is usually a leftist ploy. But, but, but, if, if, if. It is an imperfect world we live in. There is always an exception.

Do you think the Government of Venezuela or Cuba is reputable and represents the majority of the citizens in each? How much have we really interfered in those countries recently? Do you think Syria was a stable country before we came in? Do you think Bashar Assad is a legitimate ruler? Do you think America has been the only country to interfere with other nation's sovereignty? Oh, wait, I forgot, this is all Trump's fault, right?

Yes, we have done many things that we shouldn't have done, and the past can't be changed. We are also a country that values freedom and truth enough so that these can be discussed in an open public forum and new policies develop in response. There is also much good that America has been responsible for. I don't see immigrants flocking to these other countries. I don't see Americans trying to except this country often at a cost of life or limb to climb a wall. No, America is not perfect. As Winston Churchill once said (and I have to paraphrase here because I don't have the exact quote), "You can always count on America to do the right thing, after she has tried everything else."

We may yet very well leave Iraq. Too soon to say. Trump wants the troops home but we have to defend our interests, one of which is our embassy and the airbase that cost billions to build. Trump said the Iraqis would have to pay for the base if we leave. The details are something that has to be worked out. Negotiations and agreements have to be sorted through and treaties ratified. Now don't come back with a whole slew of other questions about treaties. You know exactly what I mean. We will continue to have these discussions and arguments in America about the best course of action for the government to follow. That's what elections are also for! One thing I am certain of is that the Progressive Leftist of the Democratic Party has absolutely nothing worthwhile to offer the world nor America. Everything they stand for has already been tried, tweaked, retried, and failed.

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Jan 15, 2020 16:52:01   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
ACP45 wrote:
Very True, however consider a key component in your definition of Nationalism"
"Nationalism holds that borders are crucial: The border is where each nation’s ambitions should stop."

Bookmark, Bold Print, and Italicize that thought.

If a border is where each nation's ambition should stop, is it really necessary for the US to have it's special forces deployed in 138 nations, and military bases in 63 countries?*

At what point does Nationalism morph into Imperialism?

Is it not possible to be a Nationalist and a Patriot as the same time?

Is it not possible to love, respect, and honor your country, while also voicing strong disagreement when your country does not act in a moral and respectable manner, and honor the sovereignty of neighboring countries?


*https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-worldwide-network-of-us-military-bases-2/5564
Very True, however consider a key component in you... (show quote)


We defeated Hitler but we don't control Germany. The same goes for Japan or Italy. Nor do we control any nation anywhere else. Some are thankfully our allies and friends, some are just commerce partners. It depends on our and their leaders who have never represented all the people because that is impossible. Leaders can only help or hurt their nation. The nation is the people. Venezuela and America both have had booming economies and only one had to eat zoo animals to survive and are suffering today because they got a really bad leader, who took their guns, then stole their wealth at the end of a gun. Funny the government never gives up its guns because that's crazy, they may be attacked someday. Exactly. The left wants to turn us into Venezuela and going through garbage dumps to survive.

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Jan 15, 2020 18:58:52   #
son of witless
 
PeterS wrote:
...


What about if you don't have either Patriotism or Nationalism ? You have Obamaism.

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Jan 15, 2020 19:24:29   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
PeterS wrote:
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Jan 15, 2020 22:54:02   #
Digger47
 
Well said. As far as being in lots of other countries around the world, because are a powerful nation we support other nations who can't defend themselves for aggressors like Russia, China, Iran who want to invade their weaker neighbors. We are spread out all over the world to help keep the world stability.we are not invaders/aggressors, we are defenders !!

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