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Thoughts - Bail for rioters?
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Dec 2, 2019 00:58:05   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Duty of Hong Kong courts to uphold law
CHINADAILY

That the courts in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region have rejected the bail applications of some detainees arrested by the police in the recent riots for the first time since the unrest began in June has been viewed as a sign that at last the courts are going to stop showing the rioters excessive — and therefore encouraging — leniency.

Whether that proves to be the case or not remains to be seen.

Until now, the city's judicial system, inherited from the British colonial system, has been a condoner of the rioting, rather than a defender of law and order. Before the current rejections of bail applications, it is believed that more than 5,000 detainees charged with illegal assembly or violent crimes had been released on bail.

Under Hong Kong law, a magistrate is required to grant bail to a defendant, unless there appear to be substantial grounds for believing that the defendant would abscond or commit an offense while on bail. Given the nature of the offenses that has led to the rioters being brought before the bench, and the public comments of some after being granted bail, most people of reasonable mind would consider it likely that the rioters would re-offend after being released on bail.

With the courts seemingly giving a wink as good as a nod to their unbridled hooliganism and vandalism, the rioters have felt free of any legal constraints on their behavior, which has led the young radical protesters to believe that illegal actions no matter how extreme will not be sanctioned by the law.

That's why the violence has constantly intensified and become more prevalent. So long as the death toll is kept at the level of being isolated incidents then the rioters can still claim they are engaging in a "peaceful protest" and any fatalities are merely unfortunate one-offs.

Hong Kong's judiciary should realize how much debt it has already incurred by acquiescing in the unlawfulness over the past six months.

This is evident in the bail applications that frequently cite such excuses as study, travel or attending friends' weddings as reasons for the detainees to be released. If not for the leniency of the courts, the detainees would have understood the possible consequences and legal liabilities of their highly dangerous actions, which range from using corrosive chemicals to attack law enforcers, bringing explosives to schools and deliberately sabotaging mass transit railways.

That those Hong Kong residents who have dared to stand out by cleaning the roadblocks under the threat of attack are praised as heroes indicates how far this previously model city for the rule of law has been damaged by the perverted hubris of the rioters.

Rather than the toothpaste-squeeze of a makeshift concession to answer the calls for restoring law and order in the SAR, what Hong Kong desperately needs now is a fundamental change in the perspective of the courts, otherwise it will continue to be an out-of-bounds area for law-abiding citizens.

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Dec 2, 2019 03:47:27   #
Kevyn
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Duty of Hong Kong courts to uphold law
CHINADAILY

That the courts in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region have rejected the bail applications of some detainees arrested by the police in the recent riots for the first time since the unrest began in June has been viewed as a sign that at last the courts are going to stop showing the rioters excessive — and therefore encouraging — leniency.

Whether that proves to be the case or not remains to be seen.

Until now, the city's judicial system, inherited from the British colonial system, has been a condoner of the rioting, rather than a defender of law and order. Before the current rejections of bail applications, it is believed that more than 5,000 detainees charged with illegal assembly or violent crimes had been released on bail.

Under Hong Kong law, a magistrate is required to grant bail to a defendant, unless there appear to be substantial grounds for believing that the defendant would abscond or commit an offense while on bail. Given the nature of the offenses that has led to the rioters being brought before the bench, and the public comments of some after being granted bail, most people of reasonable mind would consider it likely that the rioters would re-offend after being released on bail.

With the courts seemingly giving a wink as good as a nod to their unbridled hooliganism and vandalism, the rioters have felt free of any legal constraints on their behavior, which has led the young radical protesters to believe that illegal actions no matter how extreme will not be sanctioned by the law.

That's why the violence has constantly intensified and become more prevalent. So long as the death toll is kept at the level of being isolated incidents then the rioters can still claim they are engaging in a "peaceful protest" and any fatalities are merely unfortunate one-offs.

Hong Kong's judiciary should realize how much debt it has already incurred by acquiescing in the unlawfulness over the past six months.

This is evident in the bail applications that frequently cite such excuses as study, travel or attending friends' weddings as reasons for the detainees to be released. If not for the leniency of the courts, the detainees would have understood the possible consequences and legal liabilities of their highly dangerous actions, which range from using corrosive chemicals to attack law enforcers, bringing explosives to schools and deliberately sabotaging mass transit railways.

That those Hong Kong residents who have dared to stand out by cleaning the roadblocks under the threat of attack are praised as heroes indicates how far this previously model city for the rule of law has been damaged by the perverted hubris of the rioters.

Rather than the toothpaste-squeeze of a makeshift concession to answer the calls for restoring law and order in the SAR, what Hong Kong desperately needs now is a fundamental change in the perspective of the courts, otherwise it will continue to be an out-of-bounds area for law-abiding citizens.
Duty of Hong Kong courts to uphold law br CHINADAI... (show quote)
There is one way to end this and bring things back to normal. The universal suffrage that every person in the World is entitled to. These are not rioters they are freedom fighters cut from the same cloth as our founding fathers. I don’t hold up much hope for them in defeating the communist dictatorship oppressing them but applaud their tenacity. I would trade every one of them for the scum in our nation who are embracing and enabling a corrupt authoritarian demagogue. The people of Hong Kong deserve freedom, I hope they achieve it and at not too great a price.

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Dec 2, 2019 03:59:44   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Kevyn wrote:
There is one way to end this and bring things back to normal. The universal suffrage that every person in the World is entitled to. These are not rioters they are freedom fighters cut from the same cloth as our founding fathers. I don’t hold up much hope for them in defeating the communist dictatorship oppressing them but applaud their tenacity. I would trade every one of them for the scum in our nation who are embracing and enabling a corrupt authoritarian demagogue. The people of Hong Kong deserve freedom, I hope they achieve it and at not too great a price.
There is one way to end this and bring things back... (show quote)


When you say universal suffrage, what is it you mean?

All adults in Hongkong are allowed to vote...

For their district representatives..

Who in turn vote for other government positions...

How is that different from the US and the electoral college?

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Dec 2, 2019 04:25:50   #
sisboombaa
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Duty of Hong Kong courts to uphold law
CHINADAILY

That the courts in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region have rejected the bail applications of some detainees arrested by the police in the recent riots for the first time since the unrest began in June has been viewed as a sign that at last the courts are going to stop showing the rioters excessive — and therefore encouraging — leniency.

Whether that proves to be the case or not remains to be seen.

Until now, the city's judicial system, inherited from the British colonial system, has been a condoner of the rioting, rather than a defender of law and order. Before the current rejections of bail applications, it is believed that more than 5,000 detainees charged with illegal assembly or violent crimes had been released on bail.

Under Hong Kong law, a magistrate is required to grant bail to a defendant, unless there appear to be substantial grounds for believing that the defendant would abscond or commit an offense while on bail. Given the nature of the offenses that has led to the rioters being brought before the bench, and the public comments of some after being granted bail, most people of reasonable mind would consider it likely that the rioters would re-offend after being released on bail.

With the courts seemingly giving a wink as good as a nod to their unbridled hooliganism and vandalism, the rioters have felt free of any legal constraints on their behavior, which has led the young radical protesters to believe that illegal actions no matter how extreme will not be sanctioned by the law.

That's why the violence has constantly intensified and become more prevalent. So long as the death toll is kept at the level of being isolated incidents then the rioters can still claim they are engaging in a "peaceful protest" and any fatalities are merely unfortunate one-offs.

Hong Kong's judiciary should realize how much debt it has already incurred by acquiescing in the unlawfulness over the past six months.

This is evident in the bail applications that frequently cite such excuses as study, travel or attending friends' weddings as reasons for the detainees to be released. If not for the leniency of the courts, the detainees would have understood the possible consequences and legal liabilities of their highly dangerous actions, which range from using corrosive chemicals to attack law enforcers, bringing explosives to schools and deliberately sabotaging mass transit railways.

That those Hong Kong residents who have dared to stand out by cleaning the roadblocks under the threat of attack are praised as heroes indicates how far this previously model city for the rule of law has been damaged by the perverted hubris of the rioters.

Rather than the toothpaste-squeeze of a makeshift concession to answer the calls for restoring law and order in the SAR, what Hong Kong desperately needs now is a fundamental change in the perspective of the courts, otherwise it will continue to be an out-of-bounds area for law-abiding citizens.
Duty of Hong Kong courts to uphold law br CHINADAI... (show quote)


I totally agree with your post. My opinion is that there is a different definition for the two words "riot" and "protest" and the law is reflective of the difference in most locations. Laws and justice should be administered equally and uniformly at all times to prevent unruliness. I hope Hong Kong changes their behavior. I pray the U.S.A. learns from their own and other's like mistakes.

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Dec 2, 2019 04:27:41   #
Kevyn
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
When you say universal suffrage, what is it you mean?

All adults in Hongkong are allowed to vote...

For their district representatives..

Who in turn vote for other government positions...

How is that different from the US and the electoral college?

Simple, the single communist chooses the candidates and blocks opposition candidates from the ballot. Children get to vote for a student council but it has nothing to do with running the school. The district representatives play an advisory role they have little say in anything of importance.

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Dec 2, 2019 04:33:54   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Kevyn wrote:
Simple, the single communist chooses the candidates and blocks opposition candidates from the ballot. Children get to vote for a student council but it has nothing to do with running the school. The district representatives play an advisory role they have little say in anything of importance.


China plays no part in choosing candidates... Although there are platforms (for example separatist) that are banned...

Sort of like how the communist Party is banned in the US...

Are you unaware of how the Hongkong government functions?

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Dec 2, 2019 05:13:58   #
Kevyn
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
China plays no part in choosing candidates... Although there are platforms (for example separatist) that are banned...

Sort of like how the communist Party is banned in the US...

Are you unaware of how the Hongkong government functions?


The communist party is not banned in the US, in fact in many jurisdictions you can vote a straight party ticket and the communist party is on the ballot.
Sample ballot from 1972 during the Cold War
Sample ballot from 1972 during the Cold War...

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Dec 2, 2019 05:17:56   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Kevyn wrote:
The communist party is not banned in the US, in fact in many jurisdictions you can vote a straight party ticket and the communist party is on the ballot.


I thought you guys banned the Communist Party back in the McCarthy era?

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Dec 2, 2019 06:21:44   #
bilordinary Loc: SW Washington
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I thought you guys banned the Communist Party back in the McCarthy era?


Hollywood won out, they should have been ousted.

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Dec 3, 2019 15:44:52   #
Louie27 Loc: Peoria, AZ
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
China plays no part in choosing candidates... Although there are platforms (for example separatist) that are banned...

Sort of like how the communist Party is banned in the US...

Are you unaware of how the Hongkong government functions?


Kevyn is oblivious to how any government is supposed to work.

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