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Oct 30, 2019 18:32:44   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
kemmer wrote:
Just like it—among others—led other denominations away from the belief that b****s bore the mark of Cain and therefore were only suited to serve white people.


Evidently being homosexual drives it's proponents crazy as well as into becoming obnoxious if you are a prime example of the behavior. And how in hell did you manage to d**g r****m into this conversation? Typical stupid Progressive r****t propaganda to deflect away from looking at themselves. The only thing smart about ewe is your mouth. If the parents of many of your students could read your comments on OPP they'd remove their children from your class and away from your influence.

Reply
Oct 30, 2019 18:37:42   #
Blade_Runner Loc: DARK SIDE OF THE MOON
 
Rose42 wrote:
No thanks. I prefer reality to the delusion that there is no God.
Secular humanists, naturalists, atheists and the like grasp the finger of science to explain everything not realizing reality is a fist.

Reply
Oct 30, 2019 18:47:38   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Singularity wrote:
No, Rose42. It is all mass delusion. Drop the fantasy and face reality.

You'd thank us for it, later.

And we'd all be better for it.


Howdy, howdy! To know there is no God one would have to know everything. To know everything one would have to be God!

Reply
 
 
Oct 30, 2019 18:51:54   #
Singularity
 
Rose42 wrote:
No thanks. I prefer reality to the delusion that there is no God.


I was actually just holding up a metaphorical mirror. No leaks. You are probably going to be ok after all.

Reply
Oct 30, 2019 19:54:18   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
kemmer wrote:
Somehow I think you’d best reread your nonsense before clicking ‘send’.


>>>Once again, where does God forbid gays from preaching?<<<

You seem to have a reading and comprehension problem

God doesn't forbid anyone from preaching NOR DID I SAY THAT >>>>>God says Homosexuality is an a*********n so YES God says it's a SIN for Gays to be preaching about the Gospel because they know not the t***h !

From what I read what and how you post I'd be safe in saying it'd be a SIN if you were preaching !

God doesn't forbid anyone from preaching but if the one preaching that God has called to preach it won't be a Homosexual UNLESS that person repents and turns away from the Sin they can not be a true preacher and follower of God !

I get the impression you only look at the Gospel only for argument sake !

Reply
Oct 30, 2019 20:00:08   #
4430 Loc: Little Egypt ** Southern Illinory
 
crazylibertarian wrote:
Actually, if we accept that we are all sinners and a homosexual is no longer practicing the acts, then a homosexual might be qualified to preach.


You are absolutely correct if that Homosexual truly repents and turns away from his sin and puts his trust in Christ and commits to walk with God then YES God can and might very well call them to preach his word !

Reply
Oct 30, 2019 20:09:53   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
kemmer wrote:
Two thoughts:
1. If straight priests are allowed to marry, gay priests must be allowed as well. Such is already the case in the Episcopal Church. But as with the Orthodox, a married priest cannot become a bishop.
2 The spouse of a priest had best have a pretty good, high-paying job.


One thought... Catholic Church doesn't recognize gay marriage... Seems they have this book that says something about it being a sin

Reply
 
 
Oct 30, 2019 20:47:26   #
Rose42
 
Singularity wrote:
I was actually just holding up a metaphorical mirror. No leaks. You are probably going to be ok after all.



Reply
Oct 30, 2019 21:33:35   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
In the 98 posts to this topic, thus far, I saw no reference to the Biblical qualifications for a church leader, i.e., minister or elder in the New Testament church... as though it were of no consequence.

When was it that marriage first became prohibited for priests and popes in the Roman Catholic church?

The first written mandate that states that priests should be celibate was made ca. AD 300 in Spain. The Council of Elvira stated that all "bishops, presbyters, and deacons and all other clerics were to abstain completely from their wives and not to have children."

This practice of celibacy began spreading in the Middle Ages. In the 11th century Pope Benedict VIII issued a rule prohibiting the children of priests from inheriting property. A few decades later Pope Gregory VII issued a decree against clerical marriages.

The term "priests" does not appear, ever, in New Testament Scripture, describing the church of the New Covenant, which is the Body of Christ, however a minister is a general term that refers to any of the Lord's servants or preachers, but probably more specifically relates to what the New Testament calls an "elder."

Elders are an order of mature believers charged with the spiritual supervision and ministry of the church. The terms elder, bishop, and pastor were used interchangeably in scripture, and their qualifications were the same (1st Timothy 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9). (A deacon is also another type of minister, but with a separate list of qualifications in 1st Timothy 3:8-13.)

There are two scripture passages which specify the qualifications of the bishop, pastor, or elder. Both were written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, through the Apostle Paul, first to Timothy and then to Titus.

1 Timothy 3:1 "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3:3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
3:4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
3:5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);
3:6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with p***e he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
3:7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

Titus 1:5 "For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you;
1:6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.
1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,
1:8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled,
1:9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict."

You will notice that both passages are very similar, but not identical. By combining what he expressed in the separate epistles, we gain a broad picture of what were considered the prerequisites of elders.

Epistle of 1st Timothy 1) Above reproach, 2) Husband of one wife, 3) Temperate, 4) Prudent, 5) Respectable, 6) Hospitable, 7) Able to teach, 8) Not addicted to wine, 9) Not belligerent, 10) Gentle, 11) Uncontentious, 12) Free from love of money, 13) Manages household well, 14) Not a new convert, 15) A good reputation inside and outside the church.

Epistle of Titus 1) Above reproach, 2) Husband of one wife, 3) Having children who believe, 4) Not self-willed, 5) Not quick tempered, 6) Not addicted to wine, 7) Not belligerent, 8) Not fond of sordid gain, 9) Hospitable, 10) Lover of what is good, 11) Sensible, 12) Just, 13) Devout, 14) Self-controlled, 15) Holding fast the word —both to exhort and refute.

"The elders, as Peter says, are examples to the people (1 Peter 5:3). Therefore, they must represent what God desires every member of the congregation to be in character and conduct. Those inside as well as outside the church first look to those who stand as leaders. It is understandable if a new or struggling believer falls prey to sin or hypocrisy, but when one who leads the congregation is found in reproach, the world blasphemes the teaching of the gospel, and saints within the church become disillusioned — some even turning away from the church. For these reasons, the stewards of God's household must be above reproach."

"Furthermore, local congregations tend to mold themselves according to their leaders — a tendency clearly seen throughout the Old Testament. When Israel had a bad king, for example, the people were sinful. When Israel had a good king, the people followed the Lord. Because people are like sheep, their shepherds have a profound impact on their direction and spiritual well-being. Therefore:

(1) "If an elder has a contentious spirit, the people will inevitably become contentious. So, a man with a contentious disposition is not qualified for eldership — even if he has the greatest teaching gift in the world (1 Timothy 3:3, Titus 1:7).

(2) "If an elder is not hospitable, the people will be unfriendly and cold (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:8).

(3) "If an elder loves money, he will subtly use the people and work for his own ends (1 Timothy 3:3). Following his example, the people, too, will become lovers of money.

(4) "If an elder is not just and devout, he will be unable to rightly discern critical issues and problems (Titus 1:8), causing the people to become unjust and disloyal to the t***h.

(5) "If an elder is not sensible, balanced, and self-controlled, his judgments will be characterized by disorganization, aimlessness, and ugly extremes — as will the judgments of the entire congregation (1 Timothy 3:1,2; Titus 1:8).

(6) "If an elder is not a faithful, one-woman husband, he will ultimately encourage others to be unfaithful (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6).

(7) "If an elder does not faithfully hold to the Word, the people will not. Such an elder will be unable to guide the church through the fierce storms of Satanic error (Titus 1:9)."

"What the churches of Jesus Christ need in the way of leadership is men of deep inner spiritual and moral character. The best systems, laws, and constitutions are impotent without men who are just, devout, lovers of what is good, sensible, self-controlled, forbearing, free from the love of money, uncontentious, and faithful keepers of God's Word. These are precisely the qualities that God requires of those who lead His people."

In scripture, we will often see a common theme that is emphasized again and again. Spiritual leaders are supposed to be primarily examples to the flock. That is, the godly lifestyle of ministers, preachers, elders or pastors is critically important as it is the visual sermon that people see and emulate with their lives. Paul told Timothy, "...be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity" (1 Timothy 4:12).

Furthermore, the lifestyle of the preacher is what brings credibility to his message. How can he hope for people to believe in a teaching that he doesn't live for himself? Someone once said, "Your life speaks so loudly, I can't hear what you're saying." It is ever so true that if we wish to influence lives for Christ, we must continually practice what we preach. "The elders who are among you I exhort... Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not... as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock" (1 Peter 5:1-3).


The Bible mentions that one of the miracles Jesus performed was the healing of Peter's mother-in-law. This makes it quite clear that Peter himself was married, and Peter is considered the first Pope by Roman Catholics.

"And immediately he left the synagogue and entered the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. Now Simon [Peter's]’s mother-in-law lay ill with a fever, and immediately they told him about her. Mark 1:29-30."

Thus says the Word of God.


proud republican wrote:
Do you think that Catholic Priests should be able to get married??? Rabbis are allowed to get married as do other religious leaders !!! So why not Catholic Priests???? What do you guys think????

Reply
Oct 30, 2019 21:58:46   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
In the 98 posts to this topic, thus far, I saw no reference to the Biblical qualifications for a church leader, i.e., minister or elder in the New Testament church... as though it were of no consequence.

When was it that marriage first became prohibited for priests and popes in the Roman Catholic church?

The first written mandate that states that priests should be celibate was made ca. AD 300 in Spain. The Council of Elvira stated that all "bishops, presbyters, and deacons and all other clerics were to abstain completely from their wives and not to have children."

This practice of celibacy began spreading in the Middle Ages. In the 11th century Pope Benedict VIII issued a rule prohibiting the children of priests from inheriting property. A few decades later Pope Gregory VII issued a decree against clerical marriages.

The term "priests" does not appear, ever, in New Testament Scripture, describing the church of the New Covenant, which is the Body of Christ, however a minister is a general term that refers to any of the Lord's servants or preachers, but probably more specifically relates to what the New Testament calls an "elder."

Elders are an order of mature believers charged with the spiritual supervision and ministry of the church. The terms elder, bishop, and pastor were used interchangeably in scripture, and their qualifications were the same (1st Timothy 3:1-7, Titus 1:5-9). (A deacon is also another type of minister, but with a separate list of qualifications in 1st Timothy 3:8-13.)

There are two scripture passages which specify the qualifications of the bishop, pastor, or elder. Both were written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, through the Apostle Paul, first to Timothy and then to Titus.

1 Timothy 3:1 "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work.
3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3:3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
3:4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
3:5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);
3:6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with p***e he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
3:7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

Titus 1:5 "For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and appoint elders in every city as I commanded you;
1:6 if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.
1:7 For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money,
1:8 but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled,
1:9 holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict."

You will notice that both passages are very similar, but not identical. By combining what he expressed in the separate epistles, we gain a broad picture of what were considered the prerequisites of elders.

Epistle of 1st Timothy 1) Above reproach, 2) Husband of one wife, 3) Temperate, 4) Prudent, 5) Respectable, 6) Hospitable, 7) Able to teach, 8) Not addicted to wine, 9) Not belligerent, 10) Gentle, 11) Uncontentious, 12) Free from love of money, 13) Manages household well, 14) Not a new convert, 15) A good reputation inside and outside the church.

Epistle of Titus 1) Above reproach, 2) Husband of one wife, 3) Having children who believe, 4) Not self-willed, 5) Not quick tempered, 6) Not addicted to wine, 7) Not belligerent, 8) Not fond of sordid gain, 9) Hospitable, 10) Lover of what is good, 11) Sensible, 12) Just, 13) Devout, 14) Self-controlled, 15) Holding fast the word —both to exhort and refute.

"The elders, as Peter says, are examples to the people (1 Peter 5:3). Therefore, they must represent what God desires every member of the congregation to be in character and conduct. Those inside as well as outside the church first look to those who stand as leaders. It is understandable if a new or struggling believer falls prey to sin or hypocrisy, but when one who leads the congregation is found in reproach, the world blasphemes the teaching of the gospel, and saints within the church become disillusioned — some even turning away from the church. For these reasons, the stewards of God's household must be above reproach."

"Furthermore, local congregations tend to mold themselves according to their leaders — a tendency clearly seen throughout the Old Testament. When Israel had a bad king, for example, the people were sinful. When Israel had a good king, the people followed the Lord. Because people are like sheep, their shepherds have a profound impact on their direction and spiritual well-being. Therefore:

(1) "If an elder has a contentious spirit, the people will inevitably become contentious. So, a man with a contentious disposition is not qualified for eldership — even if he has the greatest teaching gift in the world (1 Timothy 3:3, Titus 1:7).

(2) "If an elder is not hospitable, the people will be unfriendly and cold (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:8).

(3) "If an elder loves money, he will subtly use the people and work for his own ends (1 Timothy 3:3). Following his example, the people, too, will become lovers of money.

(4) "If an elder is not just and devout, he will be unable to rightly discern critical issues and problems (Titus 1:8), causing the people to become unjust and disloyal to the t***h.

(5) "If an elder is not sensible, balanced, and self-controlled, his judgments will be characterized by disorganization, aimlessness, and ugly extremes — as will the judgments of the entire congregation (1 Timothy 3:1,2; Titus 1:8).

(6) "If an elder is not a faithful, one-woman husband, he will ultimately encourage others to be unfaithful (1 Timothy 3:2, Titus 1:6).

(7) "If an elder does not faithfully hold to the Word, the people will not. Such an elder will be unable to guide the church through the fierce storms of Satanic error (Titus 1:9)."

"What the churches of Jesus Christ need in the way of leadership is men of deep inner spiritual and moral character. The best systems, laws, and constitutions are impotent without men who are just, devout, lovers of what is good, sensible, self-controlled, forbearing, free from the love of money, uncontentious, and faithful keepers of God's Word. These are precisely the qualities that God requires of those who lead His people."

In scripture, we will often see a common theme that is emphasized again and again. Spiritual leaders are supposed to be primarily examples to the flock. That is, the godly lifestyle of ministers, preachers, elders or pastors is critically important as it is the visual sermon that people see and emulate with their lives. Paul told Timothy, "...be an example to the believers in word, in conduct, in love, in spirit, in faith, in purity" (1 Timothy 4:12).

Furthermore, the lifestyle of the preacher is what brings credibility to his message. How can he hope for people to believe in a teaching that he doesn't live for himself? Someone once said, "Your life speaks so loudly, I can't hear what you're saying." It is ever so true that if we wish to influence lives for Christ, we must continually practice what we preach. "The elders who are among you I exhort... Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not... as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock" (1 Peter 5:1-3).


The Bible mentions that one of the miracles Jesus performed was the healing of Peter's mother-in-law. This makes it quite clear that Peter himself was married, and Peter is considered the first Pope by Roman Catholics.

"And immediately he left the synagogue and entered the house of Simon and Andrew, with James and John. Now Simon [Peter's]’s mother-in-law lay ill with a fever, and immediately they told him about her. Mark 1:29-30."

Thus says the Word of God.
In the 98 posts to this topic, thus far, I saw no ... (show quote)


Excellent point

Never have understood how one can support constructs not found in the Bible..

Although the Catholics do have traditions dating back to Christ himself you're support their beliefs

Reply
Oct 30, 2019 22:46:57   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Don't leave it dead in the water, Canuckus,

The history of all Christians have to go back to Jesus Christ, as He is the Author and the Finisher of our faith. (Hebrew 12:2)

He is the Alpha and Omega. (Revelation 22:13)

Without Jesus Christ, there is no Christianity.

Illustrate your point, please.



Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Excellent point

Never have understood how one can support constructs not found in the Bible..

Although the Catholics do have traditions dating back to Christ himself you're support their beliefs

Reply
 
 
Oct 30, 2019 23:04:55   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
Don't leave it dead in the water, Canuckus,

The history of all Christians have to go back to Jesus Christ, as He is the Author and the Finisher of our faith. (Hebrew 12:2)

He is the Alpha and Omega. (Revelation 22:13)

Without Jesus Christ, there is no Christianity.

Illustrate your point, please.


I agree with that

Reply
Oct 31, 2019 00:51:22   #
maximus Loc: Chattanooga, Tennessee
 
Kevyn wrote:
I have no say in it, I am not Catholic, just like I have no say in a woman’s right to choose wether or not to carry a pregnancy to term.




You have no 'rights' in either case, BUT you DO have an opinion and that's what we are expressing on this thread. I follow the King James Version of the Bible and Paul said in !st Corinthians 7:9...

“But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.”

The term 'burn' means 'to burn with passion', or sexual desire. When one try's to "contain" it, (priests), you end up with child molesters, because most of the time, children will keep quiet.

Reply
Oct 31, 2019 00:52:30   #
kemmer
 
padremike wrote:
Evidently being homosexual drives it's proponents crazy as well as into becoming obnoxious if you are a prime example of the behavior. And how in hell did you manage to d**g r****m into this conversation? Typical stupid Progressive r****t propaganda to deflect away from looking at themselves. The only thing smart about ewe is your mouth. If the parents of many of your students could read your comments on OPP they'd remove their children from your class and away from your influence.

Oh don't be stupid! That wasn't about r****m or homosexuality; it was was about advanced Knowledge about who we are and continuing social growth.

You have no clue as to my education career; you speak only from your abysmal bottom-feeder mentality.

Reply
Oct 31, 2019 00:57:07   #
kemmer
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
One thought... Catholic Church doesn't recognize gay marriage... Seems they have this book that says something about it being a sin

At one point they frowned on interracial marriage. Give it time. It usuallly take Rome 100-200 years to change it's mind about anything.

Reply
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