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One God or Three? The Trinity: Plurality with Perfect Unity in One
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Oct 12, 2019 13:22:17   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Let us receive in simple faith the whole revelation of the Triune God as He has revealed Himself to us in the pure Word of the Bible and may we appropriate Him in Spirit as our very life and greatest joy. May the awesome Triune God of Creation, the three-in-one and the one-in-three, be our portion and our treasure now and forever.

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit” be with us all. Amen.


One God or Three? The Trinity:

How does one reconcile the "One God" of the Old Testament with the three "Persons" of the New Testament Trinity? The Sh'ma of Deuteronomy 6:4-5 clearly emphasizes the singularity of God, which is also reconfirmed in the ten commandments (Exodus 20:3), etc. Yet the New Testament clearly proclaims a three-person Godhead (Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, John 14-17, etc.).

How does one deal with the ostensible tensions between the Old and New Testament revelations of the ultimate mystery of the Godhead?

The doctrine of the trinity has been at the heart of much theological controversy. The routine objection is that the doctrine sacrifices monotheism to tritheism. But this objection thrives on misconceptions of divine personality in the image of disparate, individual, human selves.

Rationalistic Apologetics, which is promotive of trinitarianism on speculative rather than revelational grounds, regrettably encourages these misunderstandings.

Many of us also resort to convenient models to skirt these problems, and these, too, mislead rather than clarify. Favorites include three tones blending into one chord; a single ray of light of three primary colors; or water in the forms of ice, liquid, or steam. (As an executive, I have resorted to visualizing a corporation made up of three perfectly communicating partner-shareholders.)

But each of these are, at best, clumsy illustrations, inadequate to communicate aspects of an infinite God to our finite mind.

How should we deal with this challenging issue?

By confining ourselves to what God, in His sovereignty, has revealed to us of Himself in His Word.

The Trinity in the Old Testament

There is no absurdity involved when it is contended that plurality can (and does) coexist with unity (i.e., as in Genesis 2:24: Adam + Eve become "One Flesh"; 1 + 1 = 1).

We discover that, from the first verse of Genesis, Elohim is a plural noun used with singular verbs. This plurality is even evident in our English translations in Genesis 1:26, 3:22, and 11: 7.

If we examine the text in Ecclesiastes 12:1, we note that the source text is also in the plural:

Remember now thy Creator(s) in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

Also, Isaiah 54:5:

For thy Maker(s) [is] thine husband; the Lord of hosts [is] His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.

Isaiah 6

In the famous vision of the throne of God in Isaiah 6, we have the scene in the holy place of the holy ones, celebrated by the seraphim who veiled their faces before them: Holy, Holy, Holy. (Note that there are three declarations. This is reconfirmed in the similar scene in Revelation 4:8.) In Isaiah 6:8 we again see the hint of the plural: "Who shall go for us?"

Who is the Lord of Hosts ? All sources acknowledge its applicability to the Father.
Yet notice that John attributes this passage to Christ (John 12:41),
and Paul attributes it to the Holy Spirit (Acts 28:25).
Thus, all three persons are included.

Jacob's Blessing

In Genesis 48:15-16, we note Jacob's considered preamble to his blessing:

"And he blessed Joseph and said,
[1] God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk,
[2] the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
[3] The Angel which redeemed me from all evil,
bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

The God before whom my fathers did walk, The God who fed me, and the Angel who redeemed me, are all mentioned as objects of divine worship and the source of blessing: God the Father, God the source of illumination and comfort, and the God, the Redeemer.

The Benediction

The famous Old Testament benediction, Numbers 6:24-27:

The Lord bless thee, and keep thee: (The benevolent love of God, the Father of mercies and fountain of all good);
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: (The redeeming and reconciling grace of our Lord Jesus Christ);
The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. (The purity, consolation, and joy received by the communion of the Holy Spirit. )

Compare this with the New Testament benediction in 2 Corinthians 13:14:

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen.

2nd Psalm

Carefully diagram the 2nd Psalm and you will discover that it not a dialogue, but a trialogue among the three persons of the Trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.[/b]

The Integrity of God's Word

It is amazing how many presumed difficulties begin to disappear when one discovers the integrity of the Bible: although composed of 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years, it demonstrates an integrity of design - every detail, every place name, the subtleties of the text - all testify to its singular authorship.

The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed; The Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.

The Bible reveals to us:

the invisible Father, from whom all revelations proceed;
the Son, who mediates and objectively incarnates that revelation as a historical reality; and the Holy Spirit, who is divinely outpoured and subjectively applies that revelation to each of us.


Chuck Missler
https://khouse.org/articles/1995/42/
Ron Kangas

| Reply
Oct 12, 2019 16:43:32   #
bahmer
 
Zemirah wrote:
Let us receive in simple faith the whole revelation of the Triune God as He has revealed Himself to us in the pure Word of the Bible and may we appropriate Him in Spirit as our very life and greatest joy. May the awesome Triune God of Creation, the three-in-one and the one-in-three, be our portion and our treasure now and forever.

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit” be with us all. Amen.


One God or Three? The Trinity:

How does one reconcile the "One God" of the Old Testament with the three "Persons" of the New Testament Trinity? The Sh'ma of Deuteronomy 6:4-5 clearly emphasizes the singularity of God, which is also reconfirmed in the ten commandments (Exodus 20:3), etc. Yet the New Testament clearly proclaims a three-person Godhead (Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, John 14-17, etc.).

How does one deal with the ostensible tensions between the Old and New Testament revelations of the ultimate mystery of the Godhead?

The doctrine of the trinity has been at the heart of much theological controversy. The routine objection is that the doctrine sacrifices monotheism to tritheism. But this objection thrives on misconceptions of divine personality in the image of disparate, individual, human selves.

Rationalistic Apologetics, which is promotive of trinitarianism on speculative rather than revelational grounds, regrettably encourages these misunderstandings.

Many of us also resort to convenient models to skirt these problems, and these, too, mislead rather than clarify. Favorites include three tones blending into one chord; a single ray of light of three primary colors; or water in the forms of ice, liquid, or steam. (As an executive, I have resorted to visualizing a corporation made up of three perfectly communicating partner-shareholders.)

But each of these are, at best, clumsy illustrations, inadequate to communicate aspects of an infinite God to our finite mind.

How should we deal with this challenging issue?

By confining ourselves to what God, in His sovereignty, has revealed to us of Himself in His Word.

The Trinity in the Old Testament

There is no absurdity involved when it is contended that plurality can (and does) coexist with unity (i.e., as in Genesis 2:24: Adam + Eve become "One Flesh"; 1 + 1 = 1).

We discover that, from the first verse of Genesis, Elohim is a plural noun used with singular verbs. This plurality is even evident in our English translations in Genesis 1:26, 3:22, and 11: 7.

If we examine the text in Ecclesiastes 12:1, we note that the source text is also in the plural:

Remember now thy Creator(s) in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

Also, Isaiah 54:5:

For thy Maker(s) [is] thine husband; the Lord of hosts [is] His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.

Isaiah 6

In the famous vision of the throne of God in Isaiah 6, we have the scene in the holy place of the holy ones, celebrated by the seraphim who veiled their faces before them: Holy, Holy, Holy. (Note that there are three declarations. This is reconfirmed in the similar scene in Revelation 4:8.) In Isaiah 6:8 we again see the hint of the plural: "Who shall go for us?"

Who is the Lord of Hosts ? All sources acknowledge its applicability to the Father.
Yet notice that John attributes this passage to Christ (John 12:41),
and Paul attributes it to the Holy Spirit (Acts 28:25).
Thus, all three persons are included.

Jacob's Blessing

In Genesis 48:15-16, we note Jacob's considered preamble to his blessing:

"And he blessed Joseph and said,
[1] God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk,
[2] the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
[3] The Angel which redeemed me from all evil,
bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

The God before whom my fathers did walk, The God who fed me, and the Angel who redeemed me, are all mentioned as objects of divine worship and the source of blessing: God the Father, God the source of illumination and comfort, and the God, the Redeemer.

The Benediction

The famous Old Testament benediction, Numbers 6:24-27:

The Lord bless thee, and keep thee: (The benevolent love of God, the Father of mercies and fountain of all good);
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: (The redeeming and reconciling grace of our Lord Jesus Christ);
The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. (The purity, consolation, and joy received by the communion of the Holy Spirit. )

Compare this with the New Testament benediction in 2 Corinthians 13:14:

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen.

2nd Psalm

Carefully diagram the 2nd Psalm and you will discover that it not a dialogue, but a trialogue among the three persons of the Trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.[/b]

The Integrity of God's Word

It is amazing how many presumed difficulties begin to disappear when one discovers the integrity of the Bible: although composed of 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years, it demonstrates an integrity of design - every detail, every place name, the subtleties of the text - all testify to its singular authorship.

The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed; The Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.

The Bible reveals to us:

the invisible Father, from whom all revelations proceed;
the Son, who mediates and objectively incarnates that revelation as a historical reality; and the Holy Spirit, who is divinely outpoured and subjectively applies that revelation to each of us.


Chuck Missler
https://khouse.org/articles/1995/42/
Ron Kangas
Let us receive in simple faith the whole revelatio... (show quote)


Amen and Amen very good there Zemirah thanks for that post spot on as always.

| Reply
Oct 12, 2019 22:34:56   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
Let us receive in simple faith the whole revelation of the Triune God as He has revealed Himself to us in the pure Word of the Bible and may we appropriate Him in Spirit as our very life and greatest joy. May the awesome Triune God of Creation, the three-in-one and the one-in-three, be our portion and our treasure now and forever.

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit” be with us all. Amen.


One God or Three? The Trinity:

How does one reconcile the "One God" of the Old Testament with the three "Persons" of the New Testament Trinity? The Sh'ma of Deuteronomy 6:4-5 clearly emphasizes the singularity of God, which is also reconfirmed in the ten commandments (Exodus 20:3), etc. Yet the New Testament clearly proclaims a three-person Godhead (Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, John 14-17, etc.).

How does one deal with the ostensible tensions between the Old and New Testament revelations of the ultimate mystery of the Godhead?

The doctrine of the trinity has been at the heart of much theological controversy. The routine objection is that the doctrine sacrifices monotheism to tritheism. But this objection thrives on misconceptions of divine personality in the image of disparate, individual, human selves.

Rationalistic Apologetics, which is promotive of trinitarianism on speculative rather than revelational grounds, regrettably encourages these misunderstandings.

Many of us also resort to convenient models to skirt these problems, and these, too, mislead rather than clarify. Favorites include three tones blending into one chord; a single ray of light of three primary colors; or water in the forms of ice, liquid, or steam. (As an executive, I have resorted to visualizing a corporation made up of three perfectly communicating partner-shareholders.)

But each of these are, at best, clumsy illustrations, inadequate to communicate aspects of an infinite God to our finite mind.

How should we deal with this challenging issue?

By confining ourselves to what God, in His sovereignty, has revealed to us of Himself in His Word.

The Trinity in the Old Testament

There is no absurdity involved when it is contended that plurality can (and does) coexist with unity (i.e., as in Genesis 2:24: Adam + Eve become "One Flesh"; 1 + 1 = 1).

We discover that, from the first verse of Genesis, Elohim is a plural noun used with singular verbs. This plurality is even evident in our English translations in Genesis 1:26, 3:22, and 11: 7.

If we examine the text in Ecclesiastes 12:1, we note that the source text is also in the plural:

Remember now thy Creator(s) in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

Also, Isaiah 54:5:

For thy Maker(s) [is] thine husband; the Lord of hosts [is] His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.

Isaiah 6

In the famous vision of the throne of God in Isaiah 6, we have the scene in the holy place of the holy ones, celebrated by the seraphim who veiled their faces before them: Holy, Holy, Holy. (Note that there are three declarations. This is reconfirmed in the similar scene in Revelation 4:8.) In Isaiah 6:8 we again see the hint of the plural: "Who shall go for us?"

Who is the Lord of Hosts ? All sources acknowledge its applicability to the Father.
Yet notice that John attributes this passage to Christ (John 12:41),
and Paul attributes it to the Holy Spirit (Acts 28:25).
Thus, all three persons are included.

Jacob's Blessing

In Genesis 48:15-16, we note Jacob's considered preamble to his blessing:

"And he blessed Joseph and said,
[1] God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk,
[2] the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
[3] The Angel which redeemed me from all evil,
bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

The God before whom my fathers did walk, The God who fed me, and the Angel who redeemed me, are all mentioned as objects of divine worship and the source of blessing: God the Father, God the source of illumination and comfort, and the God, the Redeemer.

The Benediction

The famous Old Testament benediction, Numbers 6:24-27:

The Lord bless thee, and keep thee: (The benevolent love of God, the Father of mercies and fountain of all good);
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: (The redeeming and reconciling grace of our Lord Jesus Christ);
The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. (The purity, consolation, and joy received by the communion of the Holy Spirit. )

Compare this with the New Testament benediction in 2 Corinthians 13:14:

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen.

2nd Psalm

Carefully diagram the 2nd Psalm and you will discover that it not a dialogue, but a trialogue among the three persons of the Trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.[/b]

The Integrity of God's Word

It is amazing how many presumed difficulties begin to disappear when one discovers the integrity of the Bible: although composed of 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years, it demonstrates an integrity of design - every detail, every place name, the subtleties of the text - all testify to its singular authorship.

The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed; The Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.

The Bible reveals to us:

the invisible Father, from whom all revelations proceed;
the Son, who mediates and objectively incarnates that revelation as a historical reality; and the Holy Spirit, who is divinely outpoured and subjectively applies that revelation to each of us.


Chuck Missler
https://khouse.org/articles/1995/42/
Ron Kangas
Let us receive in simple faith the whole revelatio... (show quote)


An enjoyable read... Waiting on a student at the moment, but this has the makings for an excellent thread...

Well done

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 10:28:39   #
Rose42
 
Zemirah wrote:
Let us receive in simple faith the whole revelation of the Triune God as He has revealed Himself to us in the pure Word of the Bible and may we appropriate Him in Spirit as our very life and greatest joy. May the awesome Triune God of Creation, the three-in-one and the one-in-three, be our portion and our treasure now and forever.

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit” be with us all. Amen.


One God or Three? The Trinity:

How does one reconcile the "One God" of the Old Testament with the three "Persons" of the New Testament Trinity? The Sh'ma of Deuteronomy 6:4-5 clearly emphasizes the singularity of God, which is also reconfirmed in the ten commandments (Exodus 20:3), etc. Yet the New Testament clearly proclaims a three-person Godhead (Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, John 14-17, etc.).

How does one deal with the ostensible tensions between the Old and New Testament revelations of the ultimate mystery of the Godhead?

The doctrine of the trinity has been at the heart of much theological controversy. The routine objection is that the doctrine sacrifices monotheism to tritheism. But this objection thrives on misconceptions of divine personality in the image of disparate, individual, human selves.

Rationalistic Apologetics, which is promotive of trinitarianism on speculative rather than revelational grounds, regrettably encourages these misunderstandings.

Many of us also resort to convenient models to skirt these problems, and these, too, mislead rather than clarify. Favorites include three tones blending into one chord; a single ray of light of three primary colors; or water in the forms of ice, liquid, or steam. (As an executive, I have resorted to visualizing a corporation made up of three perfectly communicating partner-shareholders.)

But each of these are, at best, clumsy illustrations, inadequate to communicate aspects of an infinite God to our finite mind.

How should we deal with this challenging issue?

By confining ourselves to what God, in His sovereignty, has revealed to us of Himself in His Word.

The Trinity in the Old Testament

There is no absurdity involved when it is contended that plurality can (and does) coexist with unity (i.e., as in Genesis 2:24: Adam + Eve become "One Flesh"; 1 + 1 = 1).

We discover that, from the first verse of Genesis, Elohim is a plural noun used with singular verbs. This plurality is even evident in our English translations in Genesis 1:26, 3:22, and 11: 7.

If we examine the text in Ecclesiastes 12:1, we note that the source text is also in the plural:

Remember now thy Creator(s) in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

Also, Isaiah 54:5:

For thy Maker(s) [is] thine husband; the Lord of hosts [is] His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.

Isaiah 6

In the famous vision of the throne of God in Isaiah 6, we have the scene in the holy place of the holy ones, celebrated by the seraphim who veiled their faces before them: Holy, Holy, Holy. (Note that there are three declarations. This is reconfirmed in the similar scene in Revelation 4:8.) In Isaiah 6:8 we again see the hint of the plural: "Who shall go for us?"

Who is the Lord of Hosts ? All sources acknowledge its applicability to the Father.
Yet notice that John attributes this passage to Christ (John 12:41),
and Paul attributes it to the Holy Spirit (Acts 28:25).
Thus, all three persons are included.

Jacob's Blessing

In Genesis 48:15-16, we note Jacob's considered preamble to his blessing:

"And he blessed Joseph and said,
[1] God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk,
[2] the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
[3] The Angel which redeemed me from all evil,
bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

The God before whom my fathers did walk, The God who fed me, and the Angel who redeemed me, are all mentioned as objects of divine worship and the source of blessing: God the Father, God the source of illumination and comfort, and the God, the Redeemer.

The Benediction

The famous Old Testament benediction, Numbers 6:24-27:

The Lord bless thee, and keep thee: (The benevolent love of God, the Father of mercies and fountain of all good);
The Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: (The redeeming and reconciling grace of our Lord Jesus Christ);
The Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. (The purity, consolation, and joy received by the communion of the Holy Spirit. )

Compare this with the New Testament benediction in 2 Corinthians 13:14:

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen.

2nd Psalm

Carefully diagram the 2nd Psalm and you will discover that it not a dialogue, but a trialogue among the three persons of the Trinity: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.[/b]

The Integrity of God's Word

It is amazing how many presumed difficulties begin to disappear when one discovers the integrity of the Bible: although composed of 66 books penned by 40 authors over thousands of years, it demonstrates an integrity of design - every detail, every place name, the subtleties of the text - all testify to its singular authorship.

The New Testament is in the Old Testament concealed; The Old Testament is in the New Testament revealed.

The Bible reveals to us:

the invisible Father, from whom all revelations proceed;
the Son, who mediates and objectively incarnates that revelation as a historical reality; and the Holy Spirit, who is divinely outpoured and subjectively applies that revelation to each of us.


Chuck Missler
https://khouse.org/articles/1995/42/
Ron Kangas
Let us receive in simple faith the whole revelatio... (show quote)


Good article. There will always be those who question the integrity of the bible and those who have their own personal interpretations.

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 11:30:57   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Here are highlights of Chuck Missler's life. I chose his words on the Triune God because he is a scientist, engineer and mathematician, and those who sneer at ministers are more respectful toward those with their feet "in the real world."

Actually, I'd never watched or read anything by him until my son, whose education is in Biology, Chemistry, Environmental Science, Mathematics, Atmospheric Physics, and U.S. Weather Satellites, became interested in his YouTube presentations on Prophecy.

Chuck Missler was born on May 28, 1934, in Illinois, and raised in Southern California. He became a ham radio operator at age nine, and as a teenager, Chuck started piloting aeroplanes.

While still in Dorsey High School, He maintained a high scholastic average in spite of his numerous outside activities, including intercollegiate competition on the chess team, a stellar performances on the Battalion track team, and building an electronic computer in the family garage.

His plans to pursue a doctorate in electrical engineering at Stanford University were interrupted by a Congressional appointment to the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis. Graduating with honors in 1956, Chuck took his commission in the Air Force, Captain Chuck joined the Missile Program and eventually became Branch Chief of the Department of Guided Missiles at Lowry Air Force Base.

In 1960 Chuck moved from the military to the private sector, becoming a systems engineer with TRW Inc, a large aerospace firm.

After Ramo-Wooldridge (TRW Inc) Chuck served as a senior analyst with a non-profit think tank, STL (Space Technology Laboratories), conducting projects for the intelligence community and the Department of Defense. During that time, Chuck earned a master’s degree in engineering at UCLA, supplementing previous graduate work in applied mathematics, advanced statistics and information sciences.

In 1963 Chuck was recruited into senior management at the Ford Motor Company in Dearborn, Michigan. In 1964 he was put in charge of the technical review department of the Ford Product Engineering Office for the technical auditing of both their advanced and current product program.

Chuck was Manager of the Technical Computer Center where he established the first international time-sharing computer network in 1966.

Chuck was awarded 'Outstanding Young Engineer of the Year' in 1964 by the Engineering Society of Detroit.

He left Ford to start his own company, Cyphernetics, which began operations In June 1969 to operate a national time-sharing computer network, subsequently acquired by Automatic Data Processing (listed on the New York Stock Exchange) to become its Network Services Division.

Returning to California, Chuck consulted, and organized corporate development deals, serving on the board of directors at several firms, specializing in rescuing financially troubled technology companies. He brought several companies out of Chapter 11 and into a profitable operation.

In 1976 Chuck, while working for Precision Instruments, worked on a project to replace large scale classic magnetic tape media with optical media, similar to CDs and DVD.

In 1978 Chuck became the CEO of Western Digital and saved the company from bankruptcy, he increased R&D and in 1981 Chuck personally funded and directed the first microchip implementation of the Data Encryption Standard (DES) of the National Bureau of Standards, in concert with Carnegie Mellon Institute of Research.

Between 1980-1985 Chuck was a director for Datum Inc, who developed computer peripherals and cesium clocks of the Global Positioning Satellite systems, the example that Chuck uses in his 'Learn the Bible in 24 Hours' Hour 1, about the 1971 experiment, when the USNO used Cesium Beam Atomic Clocks from Datum Inc.

In 1984 Chuck was the Chairman and CEO of Resdel Industries, Inc. a defense contractor based in Newport Beach. And in 1987 Resdel won a contract to make radio receivers for P-3 Submarine Hunters. While Chuck was the Chairman for Resdel, he was on the board of the Ramtron Corporation, which the Ramtron Corporation was formed to research, develop, and market a new generation of nonvolatile semiconductor products that integrate ferro- electric and semiconductor materials, using established silicon manufacturing techniques.

By applying novel ferroelectric circuit designs, materials, and processing techniques, Ramtron produced the first practical ferroelectric random access memory (FRAM). Advanced developments for Department of Defense and other deeply classified customers; partnered with Boeing on P-3 upgrade; with Northrup on the Stealth Bomber; etc. Ultimately acquired by Dowty PLC of U.K.

During his time in corporate boardrooms Chuck served on the Board of Directors with William E. Simon (former Secretary of Treasury), General David C. Jones (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff), Admiral Tom Hayward (Chief of Naval Operations) and Dr. Edward Teller, (Scientific Advisor to the President), involved in highly sensitive advanced technology projects, and on the Board of Directors of the Computer and Communications Industry Association in Washington D.C.

As a child, he developed an intense interest in the Bible; studying it became a favorite pastime. In the 1970s, while still in the corporate world, Chuck began leading weekly Bible studies at the 30,000-member Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, in California where thousands of cassette tapes were distributed each month. He was one of the founding members of the Biblical Research Center. In 1973 He and Nancy established Koinonia House.

Over the years, Chuck developed a loyal following. (Over 7 million copies of his taped Bible studies were scattered throughout the world.) Koinonia House then became Chuck’s full-time profession. Chuck also helped start BlueLetterBible.org and AudioCentral.com.

After a devastating Earthquake in 1992 demolished their home in Big Bear, California, Chuck and Nan moved Koinonia House to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

On the topic of radio, Chuck's thirty minute 66/40 radio program aired on more than 3,000 radio stations worldwide and was one of the only ad-free teaching segments on Christian radio.

Chuck was a prominent speaker on the subject of bible prophecy. Chuck had numerous programs aired on the Christian television stations like GOD TV, Revelation TV, and TBN Europe, namely his biblical studies: Learn the Bible in 24 Hours, The Book of Revelation, The Book of Genesis, and The Book of Daniel, his topical studies Return of the Nephilim and his Angels series, as well as many books which he authored.

In May, 2018, Chuck Missler passed peacefully into eternity.



Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
An enjoyable read... Waiting on a student at the moment, but this has the makings for an excellent thread...

Well done

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 11:34:35   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Zemirah wrote:
Here are highlights of Chuck Missler's life. I chose his words on the Triune God because he is a scientist, engineer and mathematician, and those who sneer at ministers are more respectful toward those with their feet "in the real world."

Actually, I'd never watched or read anything by him until my son, whose education is in Biology, Chemistry, Environmental Science, Mathematics, Atmospheric Physics, and U.S. Weather Satellites, became interested in his YouTube presentations on Prophecy.

Chuck Missler was born on May 28, 1934, in Illinois, and raised in Southern California. He became a ham radio operator at age nine, and as a teenager, Chuck started piloting aeroplanes.

While still in Dorsey High School, He maintained a high scholastic average in spite of his numerous outside activities, including intercollegiate competition on the chess team, a stellar performances on the Battalion track team, and building an electronic computer in the family garage.

His plans to pursue a doctorate in electrical engineering at Stanford University were interrupted by a Congressional appointment to the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis. Graduating with honors in 1956, Chuck took his commission in the Air Force, Captain Chuck joined the Missile Program and eventually became Branch Chief of the Department of Guided Missiles at Lowry Air Force Base.

In 1960 Chuck moved from the military to the private sector, becoming a systems engineer with TRW Inc, a large aerospace firm.

After Ramo-Wooldridge (TRW Inc) Chuck served as a senior analyst with a non-profit think tank, STL (Space Technology Laboratories), conducting projects for the intelligence community and the Department of Defense. During that time, Chuck earned a master’s degree in engineering at UCLA, supplementing previous graduate work in applied mathematics, advanced statistics and information sciences.

In 1963 Chuck was recruited into senior management at the Ford Motor Company in Dearborn, Michigan. In 1964 he was put in charge of the technical review department of the Ford Product Engineering Office for the technical auditing of both their advanced and current product program.

Chuck was Manager of the Technical Computer Center where he established the first international time-sharing computer network in 1966.

Chuck was awarded 'Outstanding Young Engineer of the Year' in 1964 by the Engineering Society of Detroit.

He left Ford to start his own company, Cyphernetics, which began operations In June 1969 to operate a national time-sharing computer network, subsequently acquired by Automatic Data Processing (listed on the New York Stock Exchange) to become its Network Services Division.

Returning to California, Chuck consulted, and organized corporate development deals, serving on the board of directors at several firms, specializing in rescuing financially troubled technology companies. He brought several companies out of Chapter 11 and into a profitable operation.

In 1976 Chuck, while working for Precision Instruments, worked on a project to replace large scale classic magnetic tape media with optical media, similar to CDs and DVD.

In 1978 Chuck became the CEO of Western Digital and saved the company from bankruptcy, he increased R&D and in 1981 Chuck personally funded and directed the first microchip implementation of the Data Encryption Standard (DES) of the National Bureau of Standards, in concert with Carnegie Mellon Institute of Research.

Between 1980-1985 Chuck was a director for Datum Inc, who developed computer peripherals and cesium clocks of the Global Positioning Satellite systems, the example that Chuck uses in his 'Learn the Bible in 24 Hours' Hour 1, about the 1971 experiment, when the USNO used Cesium Beam Atomic Clocks from Datum Inc.

In 1984 Chuck was the Chairman and CEO of Resdel Industries, Inc. a defense contractor based in Newport Beach. And in 1987 Resdel won a contract to make radio receivers for P-3 Submarine Hunters. While Chuck was the Chairman for Resdel, he was on the board of the Ramtron Corporation, which the Ramtron Corporation was formed to research, develop, and market a new generation of nonvolatile semiconductor products that integrate ferro- electric and semiconductor materials, using established silicon manufacturing techniques.

By applying novel ferroelectric circuit designs, materials, and processing techniques, Ramtron produced the first practical ferroelectric random access memory (FRAM). Advanced developments for Department of Defense and other deeply classified customers; partnered with Boeing on P-3 upgrade; with Northrup on the Stealth Bomber; etc. Ultimately acquired by Dowty PLC of U.K.

During his time in corporate boardrooms Chuck served on the Board of Directors with William E. Simon (former Secretary of Treasury), General David C. Jones (Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff), Admiral Tom Hayward (Chief of Naval Operations) and Dr. Edward Teller, (Scientific Advisor to the President), involved in highly sensitive advanced technology projects, and on the Board of Directors of the Computer and Communications Industry Association in Washington D.C.

As a child, he developed an intense interest in the Bible; studying it became a favorite pastime. In the 1970s, while still in the corporate world, Chuck began leading weekly Bible studies at the 30,000-member Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, in California where thousands of cassette tapes were distributed each month. He was one of the founding members of the Biblical Research Center. In 1973 He and Nancy established Koinonia House.

Over the years, Chuck developed a loyal following. (Over 7 million copies of his taped Bible studies were scattered throughout the world.) Koinonia House then became Chuck’s full-time profession. Chuck also helped start BlueLetterBible.org and AudioCentral.com.

After a devastating Earthquake in 1992 demolished their home in Big Bear, California, Chuck and Nan moved Koinonia House to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

On the topic of radio, Chuck's thirty minute 66/40 radio program aired on more than 3,000 radio stations worldwide and was one of the only ad-free teaching segments on Christian radio.

Chuck was a prominent speaker on the subject of bible prophecy. Chuck had numerous programs aired on the Christian television stations like GOD TV, Revelation TV, and TBN Europe, namely his biblical studies: Learn the Bible in 24 Hours, The Book of Revelation, The Book of Genesis, and The Book of Daniel, his topical studies Return of the Nephilim and his Angels series, as well as many books which he authored.

In May, 2018, Chuck Missler passed peacefully into eternity.
Here are highlights of Chuck Missler's life. I cho... (show quote)


An amazing life...

May our Lord bless him and judge him justly...Amen

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 17:40:03   #
TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA
 
Zemirah wrote:
Let us receive in simple faith the whole revelation of the Triune God as He has revealed Himself to us in the pure Word of the Bible...

One God or Three? The Trinity:

How does one reconcile the "One God" of the Old Testament with the three "Persons" of the New Testament Trinity? The Sh'ma of Deuteronomy 6:4-5 clearly emphasizes the singularity of God, which is also reconfirmed in the ten commandments (Exodus 20:3), etc. Yet the New Testament clearly proclaims a three-person Godhead (Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14, John 14-17, etc.).
Let us receive in simple faith the whole revelatio... (show quote)



Dear Reader(s),

This is my response to Zemirah’s post, it is addressed generally to anyone who will read it, since I’m under no delusion that the Trinitarians are interested in facing the actual sources of their man-made idol, the Trinity...

Three gods or one?

That is the question postulated as the title of the thread. Well, at least the title admits to advocating for the belief in “three gods”. That part, at least, was honest. Here are the three gods of the Trinitarians:

God the Father
+
God the Son
+
God the Holy Spirit
________________
= three gods

Simple math.

The problem is, it is contrary to the commandment of God:

“The Lord our God (grammatical number: singular) is one* (grammatical number: singular)... He [grammatical number: singular] is one, and there is none other...’" Mark 12:28-34

One: Greek "heîs, hice; a primary numeral; one" -Strong's

If you were the devil in the Garden of Eden, how would you get Adam and Eve to disobey God’s one commandment, even while making them believe they were in harmony with God’s will? We know the story, you would seduce them to believe that God had a hidden meaning in His commandment and that what He meant wasn’t what was spelled out, rather, you would claim, God Himself meant something other than He said, and it just happened that your new interpretation would make God’s commandment out to be a lie.

If you were the devil in the days when Moses had brought forth the children of Israel from Egypt, how would you get the Israelites to disobey God’s first commandment while believing they were in harmony with God’s will? We know the story, you would first start with the precious things (like gold and silver) that God’s people had brought out of their captivity with them, and then you would have them go to the world round about them for concepts by which to define the god you would worship. In their case, the world around them carved out gods of wood and stone and worshipped a god they could see with their eyes and touch with their hands. And that is what the Israelites did while waiting for Moses. They created an idol from the gold they had brought with them out of Egypt and named their creation by the name of Yahweh and claimed this was the god that brought them deliverance.

If you were the devil in the early Christian era, how would you get the Christians to disobey God’s first commandment while making them believe that in doing so they were in harmony with God’s will? Well, you’d use the tried and true formula that has worked for you in the past. You would have someone redefine God’s words in a way that sounded sort of like what God said, but that would ultimately break God’s commandment that He simply stated for them.

And that is the method, Satan’s method, by which trinitarians interpret the Bible to arrive at their “three god” doctrine that negates the first and most important commandment of alol.

It has proven to be a very effective and convincing method for the devil.

The pattern and formula of the devil’s deception was very clearly summarized by Jesus in the following:
Step one: lay aside the commandment of God.
Step two: instead, hold tightly to the traditions of men.
Step three: thereby make the commandment of God of none effect, and one’s worship empty or vain, and prove that your worship is nothing more than lip service.
Step four: accuse anyone who doesn’t abide by your traditions of being heretical and against the word of God.

6He answered them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ 8For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and you do many other such things.” 9He said to them, “Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother;’ and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, ‘Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban, that is to say, given to God;’ 12then you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making void the word of God by your tradition, which you have handed down. You do many things like this[/b].” (Mark 7:6–13)

Christians understand clearly that lying and committing murder are sins, but in this passage, Jesus directly links both of those sins to the original lie of the devil in the Garden of Eden. Thus, according to Jesus (in John 8), it is murderously devil-like to interpret God’s word the way Satan does. Doing so makes the devil your father instead of God. The serpent’s lie caused death to pass upon all mankind, so Jesus was right to call him a murderer as well as a liar, the devil knew what he was doing. It would be like talking someone into drinking a lethal poison by telling them it would be “good for them”. That’s how the devil committed murder. In the poison analogy, even though it was the victim who actually “did” the deed, it would be the deceiver who was entirely to blame. But with Adam and Eve, in breaking God’s commandments, they all were to blame. God had told them what His commandment was. They should have just listened to Him. Likewise, false doctrines like the Trinity negate the true teachings stated in commandments, thus turning words that God meant for life into words of death.

There is not one place in the Bible where God names Himself as “Trinity”.
There is not one place in the Bible where God calls Himself “one essence in three persons”.
There is not one place in the Bible where we are commanded to believe that God is a Trinity of three persons. And yet, if you don’t believe that “God is three” contrary to the explicit commandment in the Bible, Trinitarians will condemn you to hell for a law that isn’t even written, except in their traditions of men!

So how did Trinitarians arrive at their precious Trinity idol if it wasn’t spelled out in the Bible? They simply used pagan and philosophical words and concepts with which to conceive and describe their man-made idol.

There are at least five major biblical teachings that the Trinitarians have negated in order to supplant them with five pagan concepts. Those concepts are as follows, in biblical vs pagan terms:
Immaterial and incorporeal vs material and corporeal
Named vs unnamable.
Passionate vs impassible
Foreknowledge vs literal preexistence
Agency vs distinct personal identities.

Continued in Part Two

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 17:43:11   #
TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA
 
Part Two

The Bible teaches that God is immaterial and incorporeal. Pagan philosophers maintain that God is material and corporeal. Trinitarians decided to go with the pagan philosophers instead of God on this count.

The first step in the Trinity was that they redefined God in terms of substance. God had always defined Himself in terms of attitudes and actions, never in terms of “substance.” When God called Himself “I am that I am” He was describing Himself in non-material terms. He was saying He is what He does. It is the same with the word Yahweh, which literally means “the Self Existent One”. It means “Self Existent” but the grammatical number is always singular, therefore, in English, it would be a “sin of omission” to deny the fact that God names Himself as emphatically singular in number.

But this wasn’t acceptable to Trinitarians. They can’t conceive of an immaterial God. In fact, Tertullian, the “father of the Latin Church”, admitted that he couldn’t “divide” God into persons if He wasn’t a substance.

“He (the word) became also the Son of God, and was begotten when he proceeded forth from Him. Do you then, (you ask,) grant that the Word is a certain substance, constructed by the Spirit and the communication of Wisdom? Certainly I do. But you will not allow Him to be really a substantive being, by having a substance of His own; in such a way that he may be regarded as an objective thing and a person, and so be able (as being constituted second to God the Father,) to make two, the Father and the Son, God and the Word. For you will say, what is a word, but a voice and sound of the mouth, and (as the grammarians teach) air when struck against, intelligible to the ear, but for the rest a sort of void, empty, and incorporeal thing. I, on the contrary, contend that nothing empty and void could have come forth from God, seeing that it is not put forth from that which is empty and void; nor could that possibly be devoid of substance which has proceeded from so great a substance, and has produced such mighty substances: for all things which were made through Him, He Himself (personally) made. How could it be, that he Himself is nothing, without whom nothing was made? How could he who is empty have made things which are solid, and he who is void have made things which are full, and he who is incorporeal have made things which have body?” Tertullian, Against Praxeas, Chapter 7

Tertullian was right about one thing: it is impossible to divide the “persons” of the “Trinity” into “persons” without first defining God in pagan terms of “substance”.

According to Justin Martyr, Plato described God as “a fiery substance.” This notion is different than saying, “our God is a consuming fire” (Deuteronomy 4:24), which refers figuratively to the action rather than the substance.

“For Plato…says that the most high God exists in a fiery substance. But Aristotle…overthrows the opinion of Plato, saying that God does not exist in a fiery substance: but inventing, as a fifth substance, some kind of aetherial and unchangeable body, says that God exists in it. Thus, at least, he wrote: ‘Not, as some of those who have erred regarding the Deity say, that God exists in a fiery substance.’” Justin’s Hortatory Address to the Greeks, Chapter 5, 31 & 36

“Rather than presenting at this point some formulations from the Fathers, I will first go back to the fountainhead of substance metaphysics, Aristotle, from whom the Fathers inherited the concepts in terms of which they set out their substantialist formulations.” William P. Alston, “Substance and the Trinity,” in The Trinity: An Interdisciplinary Symposium on the Trinity, 180.

Here we see that Trinitarians do admit that the “Fathers” of the Trinity did inherit concepts (not just words) from the substance metaphysics of the pagan philosopher Aristotle. This is a contemporary admission that the actual source of the Trinity is pagan philosophy.

And here are the folks who originally gave them the idea for the three persons in the one “substance” of their Trinity, it was the antichristian Gnostics:

“The Gnostic terminologies within the Æon speculations were partly reproduced among the Catholic theologians of the third century; most important is it that the Gnostics have already made use of the concept ‘homoousios’; see Iren., I. 5. I,… I.5.4,… I.5.5…In all these cases the word means ‘of one substance.’ …Other terms also which have acquired great significance in the Church since the days of Origen (e.g., agénnetos) are found among the Gnostics…Bigg. (1. c. p. 58, note 3) calls attention to the appearance of trias in Excerpt. ex. Theodotus § 80, perhaps the earliest passage.” Adolf von Harnack, History of Dogma, I, 259: “The Attempts Of The Gnostics To Create An Apostolic Dogmatic, And A Christian Theology; Or, The Acute Secularising Of Christianity,” § 3, footnote 357.

The word homoousios, usually translated ‘consubstantial’ or ‘coessential,’ appears to have been introduced by Gnostic Christians of the second century …It originally meant, ‘having the same substance,’ ousia; and in the majority of cases at least, the notion of ousia that is implied is either material or conceived in physical terms. It thus means roughly, ‘made of the same…kind of stuff.’” Christopher Stead, Divine Substance, 190.

“…the second century… pagan writing…the Poimandres …could conceivably be the earliest text which contains the word homoousios. The writer describes a revelation given to him by the god Poimandres, which explains the origin of the universe and of man; he draws freely on the book of Genesis, but boldly reinterprets its theology so as to present a fairly complex hierarchy of heavenly beings resembling those of the Gnostics. At the head of the hierarchy stands the supreme God whose name is Mind, Nous, and who is also characterized as ‘life and light’; next to him comes the Logos, who is described as ‘Son of God’…the Logos…was united with the Demiurge Mind, for he was of the same substance (homoousios) …” Christopher Stead, Divine Substance, 201-202.

“Surprising though it may seem, there is total agreement among scholars on at least one point. Adolf von Harnack, Ignacio Ortiz de Urbina, Luis M. Mendizábal, George Leonard Prestige, Peter Gerlitz, Éphrem Boularand, John Norman D. Kelly, Frauke Dinsen, Christopher Stead— all without exception agree in claiming that the Gnostics were the first theologians to use the word homoousios …The late Aloys Grillmeir wrote: ‘The early history of the Nicene homoousios shows us that the theologians of the church were probably made aware of this concept, and thus of the doctrine of emanation, by the Gnostics .’” Pier Franco Beatrice, “The Word ‘Homoousios’ from Hellenism to Christianity,” 248.

“Now with the heresy of the Ariomaniacs {i.e. “Arians”}, which has corrupted the Church of God... These then teach three hypostases, just as Valentinus the heresiarch first invented in the book entitled by him 'On the Three Natures'. For he was the first to invent three hypostases and three persons of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and he is discovered to have filched this from Hermes and Plato” (Source: Logan A. Marcellus of Ancyra (Pseudo-Anthimus), 'On the Holy Church': Text, Translation and Commentary. Verses 8-9. Journal of Theological Studies, NS, Volume 51, Pt. 1, April 2000, p.95).

In order to articulate the dogma of the Trinity, the Church had to develop its own terminology with the help of certain notions of philosophical origin: " substance," " person," or " hypostasis," "relation" and so on” (Catechism of the Catholic Church. Imprimatur Potest +Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. Doubleday, NY 1995, p. 74).

“It must be admitted by everyone who has the rudiments of an historical sense that the doctrine of the Trinity formed no part of the original message. St. Paul did not know it, and would have been unable to understand the meaning of the terms used in the theological formula on which the Church ultimately agreed” (God in Christian Experience, p. 180).

“The evolution of the Trinity: No responsible NT scholar would claim that the doctrine of the Trinity was taught by Jesus or preached by the earliest Christians or consciously held by any writer of the NT. It was in fact slowly worked out in the course of the first few centuries in an attempt to give an intelligible doctrine of God” (The Image of the Invisible God, SCM Press, 1982, Dr. A. T Hanson, Professor of Theology University of Hull) https://wwwrealdiscoveriesorg-simon.blogspot.com/2016/12/did-catholic-church-create-doctrine-of.html


“The Church Fathers’ conception of the Trinity was a combination of Jewish monotheism and pagan polytheism, except that to them this combination was a good combination.. In fact, it was to them an ideal combination of what is best in Jewish monotheism and of what is best in pagan polytheism[/b], and consequently they gloried in it and pointed to it as evidence of their belief. We have on this the testimony of Gregory of Nyssa, one of the great figures in the history of the philosophic formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity. His words are repeated by John of Damascus —the last of the Church Fathers. The Christian conception of God, argues Gregory of Nyssa, is neither the polytheism of the Greeks nor the monotheism of the Jews, and consequently it must be true. “For the Truth passes in the mean between these two conceptions, destroying each heresy, and yet, accepting what is useful to it from each. The Jewish dogma is destroyed by the acceptance of the Word and by belief in the Spirit, while the polytheistic error of the Greek school is made to vanish by the unity of the nature abrogating this imagination of plurality” (Oration Catechetica, 3) Wolfson, The Philosophy of the Church Fathers, pp 361-363

“The formula ‘one ousia in three hypostaseis’ was crafted on the workbench of theologians; and even for them, it is more of a convenient abbreviation than the last word that might be uttered…In standard Greek, and in Christian theological usage for much of the fourth century, the words ousia and hypostasis were synonyms. The history of the formula is the history of the growth of a distinction in meaning between them, and the fact that the Cappadocians had to struggle to explain the distinction shows that it was anything but obvious.” Joseph T. Lienhard, “Ousia and Hypostasis: The Cappadocian Settlement and the Theology of ‘One Hypostasis’,” in The Trinity: An Interdisciplinary Symposium on the Trinity, 103.

This is just another Trinitarian confession. The doctrine of the Trinity was “crafted on the workbench of theologians.” This is a confession that says, in simpler words, they made it. They created it. They formulated it. They invented it. These are all verbs that mean basically the same thing: something crafted on a workbench. They went to their workshop and—with a hammer and chisel—they hammered out their god. They took the raw material of conflicting biblical and pagan thoughts and then carved and chiseled, and glued and nailed, taking away something here, adding something else there, until they could somehow join them into one. They hoped they could mold ideas in the Bible into something more in line with their pre-conceptions. That is precisely how they formulated unbiblical definitions of another God and another Christ from the ones spelled out in the Bible. Having made this new “golden calf,” they determined to worship it, and they named it “the Trinity doctrine.”

Continued in Part Three

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 17:44:01   #
TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA
 
Part Three

So how did the pagan and gnostic idea of viewing and describing of God as being “one substance” in order that they could divide them into persons actually make its way into “official” Christian doctrine? The answer is as scandalous as what they did in going to the gods round about them for words by which to define their idol.

Emperor Constantine (AD 272–337) was the legal heir to the throne of Satan, according to Jesus’ testimony in Revelation 2:12–13. Constantine insisted that the Church Council of Nicaea in AD 325 adopt the Egyptian homoousios (same-substance) doctrine.

“To…the assembly in Pergamum write:…I know…where [b]you dwell, where Satan’s throne is.” (Revelation 2:12–13)

“Pergamum served as the residence of the Attalid dynasty…When Eumenes’s son and second successor, Attalus III, died without an heir, he bequeathed the kingdom [Satan’s seat] to Rome (133 BC). Rome accepted it…” https://www.britannica.com/place/Pergamum [Bracket’s mine].

Imagine going to church one day, and a high diplomatic representative of Satan’s kingdom shows up and asks to sit with the leaders of your church. His open purpose is to help them come to a consensus about what the entire church body is to believe about God and Jesus. If you can imagine that, then you’ve almost imagined the magnitude of the pagan Emperor Constantine showing up to regulate affairs in the Trinitarian Church Councils.

“The emperor Constantine granted to himself, as ‘bishop of foreign affairs,’ certain rights to church leadership… leading imperial councils and ratifying their decisions …” “Christianity; Church and state; The history of church and state; The church and the Byzantine, or Eastern, Empire,” Encyclopedia Britannica, 15th edition, 1974.

Satan’s legal heir on earth led the councils that developed the Trinity, and he ratified their decisions! Satan’s legal heir legitimized Nicene Trinitarianism. This means that the Trinitarian bishops repeated the sin of Adam and Eve. They submitted to Satan’s kingdom, rather than God’s. They forsook the kingdom of God that had been purchased back from Satan by Christ’s blood, and turned back to Satan’s kingdom instead.

This is no small matter, as evidenced by Jesus indicating where the throne of Satan’s worldly kingdom now rested. However, it doesn’t seem to bother the Trinitarians one little bit that the legal heir of Satan’s kingdom provided a crucial piece of their doctrine. That Constantine did impose his wishes is beyond controversy. All the official spokesmen present at the Council of Nicaea later admitted that Constantine had insisted on including one little word, the infamous word that meant “same-substance,” homoousios.


Thanks to recent scholarship, we no longer have to guess and surmise where Constantine found his concept of the same-substance among the God-Persons. In an article titled, “The Word ‘Homoousios’ from Hellenism to Christianity,” the whole mystery is uncovered:

“Having…excluded any relationship of the Nicene homoousios with the Christian tradition, it becomes legitimate to propose a new explanation, based on an analysis of two pagan documents which have so far never been taken into account. The main thesis of this paper is that homoousios came straight from Constantine’s Hermetic background. As can be seen clearly in the Poimandres, and even more clearly in an inscription mentioned exclusively in the Theosophia, in the theological language of Egyptian paganism the word homoousios meant that Nous-Father and the Logos-Son, who are two distinct beings, share the same perfection of the divine nature.” Pier Franco Beatrice, “The Word ‘Homoousios’ from Hellenism to Christianity,” Church History 71:2 (June 2002), available at Highbeam Reasearch, www.highbeam.com. Pier Franco Beatrice is a professor of Early Christian Literature at the University of Padua, Italy. This paper was presented as a Master Theme of the Thirteenth International Conference on Patristic Studies (Oxford, 16-21 Aug. 1999).

If the prophets and apostles had said that the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit were homoousios, the Trinity wouldn’t be called a mystery today, it would be called scriptural. However, it is not scriptural, and it was not taught, let alone believed, by any of the prophets or apostles. It is an adoption of pagan definitions of deity that run entirely contrary to the definitions of God in Scripture. And it was imposed on the Trinitarian Church by the legal heir of Satan, who had a political agenda for doing so:

“If we admit Constantine’s personal instigation, which seems necessary in view of Eusebius’ narrative, a whole series of new questions arises concerning the political and ecclesiastical motivations that led Constantine to impose the use of homoousios in the Nicene Creed.” Pier Franco Beatrice, “The Word ‘Homoousios’ from Hellenism to Christianity,” 248.

Politics, not truth, was Constantine’s motive. He did not set out to affirm the faith as it had been delivered to the saints by the apostles. His goal was expedient—political unity through compromise.

Included in the list of Gnostic doctrines that “found their way into mainstream Christian teaching” was, of course, the doctrine of the Trinity. The Gnostics, as we see, also paved the way for later Christians to adopt philosophy.

“Traditional Christianity has sought to find a middle way, combining Zion and Greece…The New Testament has been interpreted {by Trinitarians} according to Plato and Aristotle, and the distinctive Old Testament ideas have been left out of account
“It may be that traditional {i.e. Trinitarian} Christianity has been divinely guided in thus [b] transferring itself into a dominant Greek environment. In that case let us cease to talk of the Bible as the Word of God…
“The Bible…is the Word of God, and the Old Testament is an integral part of that Word. The Old Testament is essential to the understanding of the whole Bible, and it cannot be replaced by any other way of thought and life, not even by that of Plato and Aristotle. This replacement of the Hebrew knowledge of God by the results of the speculations of the Greeks has been the characteristic feature of the history of {Trinitarian} Christian thought.” Norman H. Snaith, The Distinctive Ideas of the Old Testament (New York: Shocken Books, 1964), 10, 14.

Trinitarian Christianity took up the anti-Christian practice of adopting pagan thought into its belief system. The practice may have begun at Plato and Aristotle, but when Constantine came along, it turned directly to Egypt.

What all this means is that if you want to be a Trinitarian, you have to accept that the pagan world knew many important things about your God that the Old Testament prophets of Yahweh and the handpicked apostles of Jesus Christ the Lord didn’t know. Paganism also had better words and phrases to describe God than are available in God’s Word, the Bible. Furthermore, even the anti-Christians knew better how to explain the Godhead than does a Trinitarian Christian’s Bible.


To Be Continued...

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 17:49:10   #
Rose42
 
Ah Tommy, ever the deceiver. The title doesn't advocate for believing in three Gods.

Readers will make up their own minds of course. And if they are Christian or new to Christianity, further research will show that everyone who denies the reality of the Trinity also espouses other false doctrines and that is no coincidence.

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 18:39:45   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
Rose42 wrote:
Ah Tommy, ever the deceiver. The title doesn't advocate for believing in three Gods.

Readers will make up their own minds of course. And if they are Christian or new to Christianity, further research will show that everyone who denies the reality of the Trinity also espouses other false doctrines and that is no coincidence.


Some don't even require reading to make up their minds

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 19:21:27   #
TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA
 
Rose42 wrote:
Ah Tommy, ever the deceiver. The title doesn't advocate for believing in three Gods.

Readers will make up their own minds of course. And if they are Christian or new to Christianity, further research will show that everyone who denies the reality of the Trinity also espouses other false doctrines and that is no coincidence.


Well, thank you for the blessings Rose,

“11Blessed are you when people reproach you, persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” Matthew 5:11-12

“Blessed are you when men shall hate you, and when they shall exclude and mock you, and throw out your name as evil, for the Son of Man's sake.” Luke 6:22

I am truly blessed according to these verses and many others.

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 22:34:06   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
TommyRadd wrote:
"There is not one place in the Bible where God names Himself as “Trinity”.
"There is not one place in the Bible where God calls Himself “one essence in three persons”.
"There is not one place in the Bible where we are commanded to believe that God is a Trinity of three persons."



Presenting the same precanned misinformation, time after time, is self-aggrandizement.

Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is — his good, pleasing and perfect will.

There is a reason God has told us repeatedly that those who have eyes to see will see, and those who have ears to hear will hear.

"Mark 4:22-24: For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open. If anyone has ears to hear, let them hear."

"Luke 8:8: Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown. When he said this, he called out, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”"

May you pray for wisdom, and receive it. May you have eyes to see and ears to hear, so you might be transformed by the renewing of your mind, be able to see God’s faint path unfolding, and hear the still, small voice of the Spirit calling you forward into God’s perfect will.

| Reply
Oct 13, 2019 23:08:34   #
Rose42
 
TommyRadd wrote:
Well, thank you for the blessings Rose,

“11Blessed are you when people reproach you, persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.” Matthew 5:11-12

“Blessed are you when men shall hate you, and when they shall exclude and mock you, and throw out your name as evil, for the Son of Man's sake.” Luke 6:22

I am truly blessed according to these verses and many others.
Well, thank you for the blessings Rose, br br “11... (show quote)


No one hates you for promoting false beliefs or your deception Tommy. We do hope you open your eyes to the truth.

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Oct 14, 2019 06:31:27   #
TommyRadd Loc: Midwest USA
 
Zemirah wrote:
Presenting the same precanned misinformation, time after time, is self-aggrandizement.

Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is — his good, pleasing and perfect will.

There is a reason God has told us repeatedly that those who have eyes to see will see, and those who have ears to hear will hear.

"Mark 4:22-24: For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open. If anyone has ears to hear, let them hear."

"Luke 8:8: Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown. When he said this, he called out, “Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”"

May you pray for wisdom, and receive it. May you have eyes to see and ears to hear, so you might be transformed by the renewing of your mind, be able to see God’s faint path unfolding, and hear the still, small voice of the Spirit calling you forward into God’s perfect will.
Presenting the same precanned misinformation, time... (show quote)



“The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. The knowledge of the holy is understanding.” Proverbs 9:10

“Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man.” Ecclesiastes 12:13

“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.” Revelation 22:14

“If you love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15

Jesus’ most important commandment is just as clear as the commandment in the Garden:

The Lord our God (masculine, singular, accusative) is one (masculine, singular, accusative)" Mark 12:29

28One of the scribes... asked him, "Which commandment is the most important of all?" 29Jesus answered, "The greatest is, 'Hear, Israel, the Lord our God (singular), the Lord (singular) is one (singular): 30you shall love the Lord (singular) your God (singular) with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.... 32The scribe said to him, "Truly, teacher, you have said well that he (singular) is one (singular), and there is none other but he (singular), 33and to love him (singular) with all the heart, and with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more important than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34When Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the Kingdom of God."

One: Greek "heîs, hice; a primary numeral; one" -Strong's

The undeniable fact is that the statement of God being personally one made it into the first and most important commandment of all, and the scripture cannot be broken. The extrabiblical and contrabiblical concept of God being "one essence" did not make it into the expression of the most important commandment, rather, the first commandment as it is clearly stated in the New Covenant, which is applicable today and does apply to us, contraindicates the idea of multiple persons being "one God."

And it is in this manner, of God being personally one, that both Jesus and the Jews understood the first commandment.

"We know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews... God (singular) is spirit (singular), and those who worship him (singular) must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:22,24

According to Jesus, and that by commandment, God is one, singular, "Him."

What I have only begun to show you is the sources in pagan mythology and philosophy where Trinitarians got the concepts by which to negate Jesus' foremost commandment. I didn't make this stuff up, I discovered it in the conversations and statements of the primary sources and from scholars. This is something that scholars are in complete agreement on:

"Surprising though it may seem, there is total agreement among scholars on at least one point. Adolf von Harnack, Ignacio Ortiz de Urbina, Luis M. Mendizábal, George Leonard Prestige, Peter Gerlitz, Éphrem Boularand, John Norman D. Kelly, Frauke Dinsen, Christopher Stead— all without exception agree in claiming that the Gnostics were the first theologians to use the word homoousios. The late Aloys Grillmeir wrote: ‘The early history of the Nicene homoousios shows us that the theologians of the church were probably made aware of this concept, and thus of the doctrine of emanation, by the Gnostics.'" Pier Franco Beatrice, “The Word ‘Homoousios’ from Hellenism to Christianity,” 248

How then is this me going out in left field? How is this my ideas?

And since I am merely reporting what scholars, primary sources, and the scriptures are actually saying, and you falsely claim I have no wisdom, how are you not bearing false witness in addition to burying your head in the sand so you don't have to face the evil sources of your traditions of men?

"5The Pharisees and the scribes asked him, "Why don't your disciples walk according to the tradition of the elders...?" 6He answered them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'
8"For you set aside the commandment of God, and hold tightly to the tradition of men..."
9He said to them, "Full well do you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition." Mark 7:5-9

You have turned Jesus' chief complaint against the Jews on its head, and have decided that man made traditions are to be held in higher esteem than the foremost commandment of God as clearly stated by Jesus Christ himself! If that isn't insubordination and utter arrogance, I don't know what is. But that is only the start!

Anyone who reads the Old Testament can see the propensity of God's people to go to the gods round about them for ways to artificially worship God and how disastrous that is in kindling God's rage. But you think that is now, in the New Testament period, not only acceptable, but somehow "wise", and so you accuse me of needing to have the "wisdom" to go along with you idolaters!

You Trinitarians think spiritual adultery is a good thing, and that's why you incorporate pagan concepts into your traditions of men making the commandment if God of none effect.

"The Church Fathers’ conception of the Trinity was a combination of Jewish monotheism and pagan polytheism, except that to them this combination was a good combination.. In fact, it was to them an ideal combination of what is best in Jewish monotheism and of what is best in pagan polytheism, and consequently they gloried in it and pointed to it as evidence of their belief. We have on this the testimony of Gregory of Nyssa, one of the great figures in the history of the philosophic formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity. His words are repeated by John of Damascus —the last of the Church Fathers. The Christian conception of God, argues Gregory of Nyssa, is neither the polytheism of the Greeks nor the monotheism of the Jews, and consequently it must be true. “For the Truth passes in the mean between these two conceptions, destroying each heresy, and yet, accepting what is useful to it from each. The Jewish dogma is destroyed by the acceptance of the Word and by belief in the Spirit, while the polytheistic error of the Greek school is made to vanish by the unity of the nature abrogating this imagination of plurality” (Oration Catechetica, 3) Wolfson, The Philosophy of the Church Fathers, pp 361-363

I've quoted for you before the primary source where Gregory of Nyssa admitted that the architects of your Trinity idol got the idea of persons in the godhead from Greek philosophy. You just don't want to hear it because you are infatuated by that pagan philosophy just as they were.

What you Trinitarians have is pure spiritual adultery and idolatry, the interpreting of the Bible through the lenses of pagan concepts, and then, because you can formulate no defense of any substance, you rely on the old ad hominem and claim I need to find wisdom!

You can have your fear of God taught by precepts of men, and fool yourself into believing that is any kind of "wisdom". As for me, I choose the Lord!

“The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. The knowledge of the holy is understanding.” Proverbs 9:10

“Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man.” Ecclesiastes 12:13

“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.” Revelation 22:14

“If you love me, keep my commandments.” John 14:15

"The Lord our God (masculine, singular, accusative) is one (masculine, singular, accusative)" Mark 12:29

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