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Genesis Chapter 1 lecture
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Oct 11, 2019 10:13:04   #
jSmitty45 Loc: Fl born, lived in Texas 30 yrs, now Louisiana
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Ok... But why couldn't Adam eat from the tree? It was right there and God seemed concerned that Adam might still be hungry...


God commanded them not to, and they disobeyed God. I don't think it really had that much to do with that particular tree, just the fact that he told them not too, and Satan, being the major deceiver, convinced her to eat it. Thus, consequences for disobeying.

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Oct 11, 2019 10:53:22   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Fascinating...

I recall the Christian Identity Movement... Some rather "interesting" science behind much of their reasoning..


"Murray demonstrated the signs of a false prophet. He maintained attitudes that were disturbingly un-Christlike. Murray’s habit of branding everyone who disagrees with him as a tool of the devil was a telling sign of his theology"

Right there you stated some pure BS, Parky60.
How much more below?"

"Murray’s teaching takes verses out of context, which makes it easy to twist their meaning. He talked about original Greek and Hebrew word meanings, but only when he could pick an alternate translation that seemed to support his opinion. When others questioned his conclusions, Murray attacked the questioner rather than defend his view. Murray came to the Bible with his own pre-conceived opinions and then twisted the Word of God to make it fit." - Parky60

That is your opinion, Parky.

No one seems to understand all perfectly. Dozens of translations.
BUT
IMO; With all the blatant mis-interpretations from the fundamentalist denominations as well as others, I will go with scholars of Hebrew and Greek who refer to it, as Arnold Murray.
I was fortunate to have such a Pastor for many years at Restoration Ministries.

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Oct 11, 2019 10:57:12   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
jSmitty45 wrote:
God commanded them not to, and they disobeyed God. I don't think it really had that much to do with that particular tree, just the fact that he told them not too, and Satan, being the major deceiver, convinced her to eat it. Thus, consequences for disobeying.


Speaking about the Tree of Life... Apologies for the confusion...

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Oct 11, 2019 10:57:57   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
eagleye13 wrote:
"Murray demonstrated the signs of a false prophet. He maintained attitudes that were disturbingly un-Christlike. Murray’s habit of branding everyone who disagrees with him as a tool of the devil was a telling sign of his theology"

Right there you stated some pure BS, Parky60.
How much more below?"

"Murray’s teaching takes verses out of context, which makes it easy to twist their meaning. He talked about original Greek and Hebrew word meanings, but only when he could pick an alternate translation that seemed to support his opinion. When others questioned his conclusions, Murray attacked the questioner rather than defend his view. Murray came to the Bible with his own pre-conceived opinions and then twisted the Word of God to make it fit." - Parky60

That is your opinion, Parky.

No one seems to understand all perfectly. Dozens of translations.
BUT
IMO; With all the blatant mis-interpretations from the fundamentalist denominations as well as others, I will go with scholars of Hebrew and Greek who refer to it, as Arnold Murray.
I was fortunate to have such a Pastor for many years at Restoration Ministries.
"Murray demonstrated the signs of a false pro... (show quote)




Meant for another poster?

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Oct 11, 2019 11:00:51   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:


Meant for another poster?


I was commenting on Parky's opinions for the most part.

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Oct 11, 2019 11:03:15   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
eagleye13 wrote:
I was commenting on Parky's opinions for the most part.


Ok....

I haven't come on strong here..

I am truly enjoying this thread...

And have always believed that one can learn more by asking than by telling...

Fascinating information

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Oct 11, 2019 11:21:13   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Ok....

I haven't come on strong here..

I am truly enjoying this thread...

And have always believed that one can learn more by asking than by telling...

Fascinating information


Me also. Learning is a blessing to appreciate.

Obviously I like to and try to teach.
I have to admit; Genesis 4:1 is hard to refute that Adam was the father of Cain also.
I would like to have a Hebrew scholar give the translation of that verse.
That sometimes clarifies a poor translation.

Reply
 
 
Oct 11, 2019 11:23:40   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Me also. Learning is a blessing to appreciate.

Obviously I like to and try to teach.
I have to admit; Genesis 4:1 is hard to refute that Adam was the father of Cain also.
I would like to have a Hebrew scholar give the translation of that verse.
That sometimes clarifies a poor translation.


Maybe we could ask Pennylynn?

I believe she speaks Hebrew...

Although I haven't seen her on the forum for a few days..Hope all is well with her...

I could PM her???

Reply
Oct 11, 2019 11:26:39   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Maybe we could ask Pennylynn?

I believe she speaks Hebrew...

Although I haven't seen her on the forum for a few days..Hope all is well with her...

I could PM her???

Do it.

Yep. She is a Scholar. We go at it on some topics, and agree on others. I miss her, and hope she is well.

Reply
Oct 11, 2019 11:27:41   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
eagleye13 wrote:
Do it.

Yep. She is a Scholar. We go at it on some topics. I miss her.


Done

I have also crossed words with her...

Reply
Oct 11, 2019 12:12:48   #
jSmitty45 Loc: Fl born, lived in Texas 30 yrs, now Louisiana
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
Speaking about the Tree of Life... Apologies for the confusion...


No problem. We all want that tree of life, at least hope so.

Reply
 
 
Oct 11, 2019 12:14:12   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
jSmitty45 wrote:
No problem. We all want that tree of life, at least hope so.


Amen to that

Reply
Oct 11, 2019 12:37:10   #
Rose42
 
Parky60 wrote:
Question: "Are the teachings of Arnold Murray and Shepherd’s Chapel biblical?"
Answer: Shepherd’s Chapel is a church/ministry in Gravette, Arkansas, USA, known mainly for its television broadcast featuring the Bible teaching of Arnold Murray. Sadly, the teachings of Arnold Murray and Shepherd’s Chapel are full of error.

Murray demonstrated the signs of a false prophet. He maintained attitudes that were disturbingly un-Christlike. Murray’s habit of branding everyone who disagrees with him as a tool of the devil was a telling sign of his theology. Rather than instruct or correct with love and compassion (Galatians 5:22–26), Murray responded with anger, aggressiveness, and secrecy, and he inspired the same contempt and anger in his many of his followers.

Murray’s teaching takes verses out of context, which makes it easy to twist their meaning. He talked about original Greek and Hebrew word meanings, but only when he could pick an alternate translation that seemed to support his opinion. When others questioned his conclusions, Murray attacked the questioner rather than defend his view. Murray came to the Bible with his own pre-conceived opinions and then twisted the Word of God to make it fit.

For example, Murray claimed that Cain was actually the son of Eve and Satan—the serpent seed doctrine. He ignored Genesis 4:1 which says, “Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, ‘With the help of the Lord I have brought forth a man’” (Genesis 4:1). Adam was Cain’s father, and there is no reason to believe otherwise. Murray also connected the parable of the good and bad seed in Matthew 13 with God’s curse of the serpent in Genesis 3 despite nothing in the context to connect the two passages.

Murray taught that there will be no rapture, despite passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:51–52. As is all-too-common with Arnold Murray, he claimed that 95 percent of churches who teach the rapture will accept the Antichrist as their savior (from a November 1985 newsletter). In this way, Murray effectively denied the salvation of anyone who believes in the rapture. It is unsettling to hear a Bible teacher making such claims about those he disagrees with concerning a non-essential point of eschatology.

Shepherd’s Chapel also teaches modalism, a heretical doctrine that denies the Trinity. Murray taught that “Father,” “Son,” and “Spirit” are different titles that God uses at different times. As God takes on different jobs, He uses various names for Himself. Modalism was condemned as a heresy in the first few centuries of the Christian church. It turns God into a deceiver, because in passages such as Matthew 3:16-17 definitely describe the Father, Son, and Spirit interrelating to each other. How can the Father speak in the presence of the Son and the Spirit descend on the Son without it making it appear that the three of them are separate persons?

Murray also subscribed to the Christian Identity Movement, which teaches the British are the real descendants of the ancient Israelites. This movement has been the foundation, fuel, and ammunition for a great deal of racial bigotry. Murray denounced interracial marriages, an unbiblical position that itself wavers on the edge of racism.

In addition to doctrinal errors, Arnold Murray also demonstrated violent personality traits incompatible with the position of church leader. His lack of compassion and condescending references to those who disagree with him were the most noticeable sign of his instability. Christians should be wary of anyone who acts as Arnold Murray did and should avoid any teacher who subscribes to the unbiblical views of Shepherd’s Chapel.

gotQuestions.org
b Question: /b "Are the teachings of Arnold... (show quote)


From what little I've read about him that sums it up.

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Oct 11, 2019 22:59:20   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
It is absolutely incredulous that intelligent, well educated individuals, who are presumably well enough physically and emotionally to sit up and partake of nourishment, find no "satisfaction" in the revealed Word of God.

These are the very Words Jesus Christ gave to the Holy Spirit, who then imparted them through inspiration to God's Prophets and Apostles, from Moses in exile in Midian in what is now Northwestern Saudi Arabia, to the Apostle John on the Greek island of Patmos.

Instead you proclaim as superior and "more satisfying" than the words of Jesus Christ,
the private interpretation of a contemporary in Arkansas who is on record ridiculing anyone who challenged his apostate interpretation of Holy Scripture?

What in the world do you do with Jesus' words of warning at the end of His Revelation to John(?):

Revelation 22:18-19
18: "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book;
19: "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."


eagleye13 wrote:
Thanks for relating to many truths that Arnold Murray explains in easy to understand detail.

That is why this was posted.
I hope many Christians, as well as non-Christians, take the time to enlighten them selves.

Reply
Oct 11, 2019 23:13:37   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Please point out the "poor translation."

Genesis 4:1:

New International Version
Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man."

New Living Translation
Now Adam had sexual relations with his wife, Eve, and she became pregnant. When she gave birth to Cain, she said, “With the LORD’s help, I have produced a man!”

English Standard Version
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, “I have gotten a man with the help of the LORD.”

Berean Study Bible
And Adam had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. “With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man,” she said.

New American Standard Bible
Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, "I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD."

New King James Version
Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the LORD.”

King James Bible
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Christian Standard Bible
The man was intimate with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. She said, "I have had a male child with the LORD's help."

Contemporary English Version
Adam and Eve had a son. Then Eve said, "I'll name him Cain because I got him with the help of the LORD."

Good News Translation
Then Adam had intercourse with his wife, and she became pregnant. She bore a son and said, "By the LORD's help I have gotten a son." So she named him Cain.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Adam was intimate with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. She said, "I have had a male child with the LORD's help."

International Standard Version
Later, Adam had sexual relations with his wife Eve. She became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "I have given birth to a male child—the LORD."

NET Bible
Now the man had marital relations with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. Then she said, "I have created a man just as the LORD did!"

New Heart English Bible
Now Adam had marital relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived, and gave birth to Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man with the LORD's help."

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Adam made love to his wife Eve. She became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. She said, "I have gotten the man that the LORD promised."

JPS Tanakh 1917
And the man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived and bore Cain, and said: 'I have gotten a man with the help of the LORD.'

New American Standard 1977
Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD.”

Jubilee Bible 2000
And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain and said, I have gained a man by the LORD.

King James 2000 Bible
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

American King James Version
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

American Standard Version
And the man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man with the help of Jehovah.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and brought forth Cain and said, I have gained a man through God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And Adam knew Eve his wife: who conceived and brought forth Cain, saying: I have gotten a man through God.

Darby Bible Translation
And Man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have acquired a man with Jehovah.

English Revised Version
And the man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man with the help of the LORD.

Webster's Bible Translation
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

World English Bible
The man knew Eve his wife. She conceived, and gave birth to Cain, and said, "I have gotten a man with Yahweh's help."

Young's Literal Translation
And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceiveth and beareth Cain, and saith, 'I have gotten a man by Jehovah;'

Also, please note, Cain and Abel WERE NOT TWINS:

Berean Study Bible
Cain and Abel
1And Adam had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. “With the help of the LORD I have brought forth a man,” she said.

2Later she gave birth to Cain’s brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, while Cain was a tiller of the soil.…

Genesis 4:2
Later she gave birth to Cain's brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the soil.

Treasury of Scripture

And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

Genesis 4:25
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

Lexicon:

And Adam
וְהָ֣אָדָ֔ם (wə·hā·’ā·ḏām)
Conjunctive waw, Article | Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 120: Ruddy, a human being

had relations with
יָדַ֖ע (yā·ḏa‘)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - third person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3045: To know

his wife
אִשְׁתּ֑וֹ (’iš·tōw)
Noun - feminine singular construct | third person masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 802: Woman, wife, female

Eve,
חַוָּ֣ה (ḥaw·wāh)
Noun - proper - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 2332: Eve -- 'life', the first woman

and she conceived
וַתַּ֙הַר֙ (wat·ta·har)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 2029: To conceive, become pregnant

and gave birth to
וַתֵּ֣לֶד (wat·tê·leḏ)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3205: To bear young, to beget, medically, to act as midwife, to show lineage

Cain.
קַ֔יִן (qa·yin)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7014: Cain -- a city in southern Judah

“With the help of
אֶת־ (’eṯ-)
Preposition
Strong's Hebrew 854: Nearness, near, with, by, at, among

the LORD
יְהוָֽה׃ (Yah·weh)
Noun - proper - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 3068: LORD -- the proper name of the God of Israel

I have brought forth
קָנִ֥יתִי (qā·nî·ṯî)
Verb - Qal - Perfect - first person common singular
Strong's Hebrew 7069: To erect, create, to procure, by purchase, to own

a man,”
אִ֖ישׁ (’îš)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's Hebrew 376: A man as an individual, a male person

she said.
וַתֹּ֕אמֶר (wat·tō·mer)
Conjunctive waw | Verb - Qal - Consecutive imperfect - third person feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 559: To utter, say





eagleye13 wrote:
Me also. Learning is a blessing to appreciate.

Obviously I like to and try to teach.
I have to admit; Genesis 4:1 is hard to refute that Adam was the father of Cain also.
I would like to have a Hebrew scholar give the translation of that verse.
That sometimes clarifies a poor translation.

Reply
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