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The last of morality died with Jesus
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Oct 15, 2019 11:35:23   #
Rose42
 
rumitoid wrote:
You can get the whole gist and implications from reading the Foreword. I truly feel you need to read this at least.


Dwight Edwards didn't write the foreward.

I didn't see anything in the foreward that I haven't seen before.

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Oct 15, 2019 19:31:36   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
Dwight Edwards didn't write the foreward.

I didn't see anything in the foreward that I haven't seen before.


What? I never said Dwight wrote the foreword. Such lack of attention really bugs me. Almost all forewords are written by another; this is a commonly known fact. Is this meant as misdirection?

I said the foreword would help get to Dwight's point about grace. And either you haven't seen anything like this before or, sorry, you still do not understand his position. And why didn't you realize, if you read the [sic] "foreward," that you did not learn how to spell it?

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Oct 15, 2019 20:25:03   #
Rose42
 
rumitoid wrote:
What? I never said Dwight wrote the foreword. Such lack of attention really bugs me. Almost all forewords are written by another; this is a commonly known fact. Is this meant as misdirection?

I said the foreword would help get to Dwight's point about grace. And either you haven't seen anything like this before or, sorry, you still do not understand his position. And why didn't you realize, if you read the [sic] "foreward," that you did not learn how to spell it?


It really isn't hard to understand. There was no lack of attention. I read it, didn't think it was as big a deal as you make it out to be and you don't like that so you get petty about spelling. Do you really need this book to open your eyes to what Christ can do for you? Are his words more eloquent, do they contain more truth than God's word?

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Oct 16, 2019 19:48:55   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
It really isn't hard to understand. There was no lack of attention. I read it, didn't think it was as big a deal as you make it out to be and you don't like that so you get petty about spelling. Do you really need this book to open your eyes to what Christ can do for you? Are his words more eloquent, do they contain more truth than God's word?


Fine. My point was to open your eyes to the very radical nature of grace, which I failed to do. My bad.

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Oct 16, 2019 20:13:03   #
Rose42
 
rumitoid wrote:
Fine. My point was to open your eyes to the very radical nature of grace, which I failed to do. My bad.


Do you think God's word is inadequate for us to understand grace? I've been reading about a "radical grace" or "hyper grace" theology. It espouses much of what you claim - just rely on spirit and grace with no effort to overcome sin.

Still looking into this new teaching but much of it isn't biblical.

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Oct 16, 2019 21:43:07   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
Do you think God's word is inadequate for us to understand grace? I've been reading about a "radical grace" or "hyper grace" theology. It espouses much of what you claim - just rely on spirit and grace with no effort to overcome sin.

Still looking into this new teaching but much of it isn't biblical.


"...much of it isn't biblical": by how you see things. I find it clearly written in the Pauline letters and red letters of Jesus.

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Oct 16, 2019 21:44:15   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
rumitoid wrote:
"...much of it isn't biblical": by how you see things. I find it clearly written in the Pauline letters and red letters of Jesus.


"much of it isn't biblical" is her way of saying she doesn't agree, but can't explain why your wrong....

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Oct 16, 2019 21:46:27   #
rumitoid
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
"much of it isn't biblical" is her way of saying she doesn't agree, but can't explain why your wrong....


Funny, maybe. But she is pretty straightforward.

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Oct 16, 2019 22:51:55   #
Rose42
 
rumitoid wrote:
"...much of it isn't biblical": by how you see things. I find it clearly written in the Pauline letters and red letters of Jesus.


He says not to resist evil? That we don’t need to make the effort to not sin? No he doesn’t.

One of the claims of the radical grace movement is “A life of obedience can be obtained only by resting in God’s grace”. What verse says that? I can’t find one.

We are told to work to enter that rest. Not just sit back and take it in.
Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11

I’m going to post more info on it.

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Oct 17, 2019 17:28:13   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
Do you think God's word is inadequate for us to understand grace? I've been reading about a "radical grace" or "hyper grace" theology. It espouses much of what you claim - just rely on spirit and grace with no effort to overcome sin.

Still looking into this new teaching but much of it isn't biblical.


If it is not biblical, show why not just don't opine.

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Oct 17, 2019 17:31:47   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
He says not to resist evil? That we don’t need to make the effort to not sin? No he doesn’t.

One of the claims of the radical grace movement is “A life of obedience can be obtained only by resting in God’s grace”. What verse says that? I can’t find one.

We are told to work to enter that rest. Not just sit back and take it in.
Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11

I’m going to post more info on it.
He says not to resist evil? That we don’t need to... (show quote)


Are you kidding about what verse says “A life of obedience can be obtained only by resting in God’s grace”: I gave it to you earlier. And that is just one. You will find others, such as "be still," that instruct us to simply rest in the lord, our sabbath.

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Oct 17, 2019 17:34:23   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
He says not to resist evil? That we don’t need to make the effort to not sin? No he doesn’t.

One of the claims of the radical grace movement is “A life of obedience can be obtained only by resting in God’s grace”. What verse says that? I can’t find one.

We are told to work to enter that rest. Not just sit back and take it in.
Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. -Hebrews 4:11

I’m going to post more info on it.
He says not to resist evil? That we don’t need to... (show quote)


And I showed in a Bible verse where "the work" is to enter the rest, fighting such resistance as you are presenting to surrender to the rest.

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Oct 17, 2019 19:07:57   #
Rose42
 
rumitoid wrote:
Are you kidding about what verse says “A life of obedience can be obtained only by resting in God’s grace”: I gave it to you earlier. And that is just one. You will find others, such as "be still," that instruct us to simply rest in the lord, our sabbath.


Not one of those verses you gave means no effort is required of Christians. Not a single one. That's what I mean by no you didn't prove anything with those verses and I don't think you really understand the concept.

Paul tells us of his war with the flesh in Romans 7. Ephesians 6:10-18 exhorts us to put on the full armor of God. The only way to mortify sin is with God's word. There is no other way. You can't tell someone they're not really 'resting in God's grace' if they sin. That makes no sense. Sin will always be a struggle for every Christian as long as we're in these mortal bodies. And it starts in the mind.

Psalm 46 - 'be still and know that I am God'. The whole Psalm must be taken in context.

“God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam and the mountains quake with their surging. There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy place where the Most High dwells. God is within her, she will not fall; God will help her at break of day. Nations are in uproar, kingdoms fall; he lifts his voice, the earth melts. The LORD Almighty is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress. Come and see what the LORD has done, the desolations he has brought on the earth. He makes wars cease to the ends of the earth. He breaks the bow and shatters the spear; he burns the shields with fire. He says, ‘Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.’ The LORD Almighty is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress.”

Be still in this Psalm refers to those fighting to stop fighting, to not panic and to recognize his sovereignty. It doesn't mean no effort is required to mortify sin.

The last line of Psalm 95 states “They shall not enter my rest.” That means they will not gain salvation. That is entering God's rest - in a nutshell.

There's a lot more to this but I can't type for too long a stretch at a time.

The language you are using is very similar to that of the hyper grace movement and I put up a thread on some of its issues. There's quite a bit of information on it.

Reply
Oct 17, 2019 19:30:28   #
rumitoid
 
Rose42 wrote:
Not one of those verses you gave means no effort is required of Christians. Not a single one. That's what I mean by no you didn't prove anything with those verses and I don't think you really understand the concept.

Paul tells us of his war with the flesh in Romans 7. Ephesians 6:10-18 exhorts us to put on the full armor of God. The only way to mortify sin is with God's word. There is no other way. You can't tell someone they're not really 'resting in God's grace' if they sin. That makes no sense. Sin will always be a struggle for every Christian as long as we're in these mortal bodies. And it starts in the mind.

Psalm 46 - 'be still and know that I am God'. The whole Psalm must be taken in context.

“God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam and the mountains quake with their surging. There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy place where the Most High dwells. God is within her, she will not fall; God will help her at break of day. Nations are in uproar, kingdoms fall; he lifts his voice, the earth melts. The LORD Almighty is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress. Come and see what the LORD has done, the desolations he has brought on the earth. He makes wars cease to the ends of the earth. He breaks the bow and shatters the spear; he burns the shields with fire. He says, ‘Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.’ The LORD Almighty is with us; the God of Jacob is our fortress.”

Be still in this Psalm refers to those fighting to stop fighting, to not panic and to recognize his sovereignty. It doesn't mean no effort is required to mortify sin.

The last line of Psalm 95 states “They shall not enter my rest.” That means they will not gain salvation. That is entering God's rest - in a nutshell.

There's a lot more to this but I can't type for too long a stretch at a time.

The language you are using is very similar to that of the hyper grace movement and I put up a thread on some of its issues. There's quite a bit of information on it.
Not one of those verses you gave means no effort i... (show quote)


I never said no effort was needed to be a Christian; sorry if I was not clear. "The work is to enter the rest." There is an end to effort and intent, and that is a double entendra. The finish line, not the race.

And this is a disgraceful attempt to counter my argument: Psalm95 "For forty years I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’” That has nothing whatsoever to do with my points about rest in grace and is a cheap argument.

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Oct 17, 2019 19:52:31   #
Rose42
 
rumitoid wrote:
I never said no effort was needed to be a Christian; sorry if I was not clear. "The work is to enter the rest." There is an end to effort and intent, and that is a double entendra. The finish line, not the race.


There is never an end to effort and intent until we die. That is nothing new.

Quote:
And this is a disgraceful attempt to counter my argument: Psalm95 "For forty years I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘They are a people whose hearts go astray, and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’” That has nothing whatsoever to do with my points about rest in grace and is a cheap argument.


I still think you need better grounding in the word.

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