The last of morality died with Jesus
Oct 12, 2019 16:52:46 #
Rose42 wrote:
Have you completely submitted to Christ, realized you need a savior and repented, and is He Lord over all aspects of your life?
Lol, now that is hubris. Or just an insult. A toss up.
Try this for something else not to understand: a Christian has no scruples when they are with God. There are no virtues for believers.
Oct 12, 2019 17:09:30 #
rumitoid wrote:
Lol, now that is hubris. Or just an insult. A toss up.
Its neither. You have always avoided answering those questions. Do you know what that means?
Oct 12, 2019 18:07:54 #
rumitoid wrote:
Okay. No, I have nothing new to reveal, but I feel I have a way of expressing it that is more precise and insightful than our vaunted organized religions that put the name of Jesus behind in their quest with Wesley and Luther and Calvin, oh my.
No, you really don’t.
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It has bothered me for a while in almost all the c... (show quote)
It doesn’t matter what Christ’s message means to you - it matters what it means. Do you not see the difference? Truth isn’t relative. You try and change His message to accomodate you.
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"Fear not" does not usually work to dissuade this assault on grace. The terrible and crazy things some Christians do with the imprimatur of the "Spirit put this in my heart" are not a product of living in radical grace. A person of God does not talk that way about a special instruction from spirit; they act humbly.
You think you are a model of humility? A person of God also doesn’t mock Him or question what He put in the bible. So why do you do that? You need to ask yourself some hard questions.
Oct 12, 2019 18:08:40 #
Rose42 wrote:
Its neither. You have always avoided answering those questions. Do you know what that means?
Yes, I know what that means: you shouldn't ask them. It is condescending and hubris to ask. But I will.
"Have you completely submitted to Christ, realized you need a savior and repented, and is He Lord over all aspects of your life?" In short, yes. Yet completely is a serial problem: there are occasions when I practice my will to overcome evil and strive through effort and intent to do good. My bad!
Oct 12, 2019 18:28:14 #
rumitoid wrote:
Yes, I know what that means: you shouldn't ask them. It is condescending and hubris to ask. But I will.
"Have you completely submitted to Christ, realized you need a savior and repented, and is He Lord over all aspects of your life?" In short, yes. Yet completely is a serial problem: there are occasions when I practice my will to overcome evil and strive through effort and intent to do good. My bad!
"Have you completely submitted to Christ, realized you need a savior and repented, and is He Lord over all aspects of your life?" In short, yes. Yet completely is a serial problem: there are occasions when I practice my will to overcome evil and strive through effort and intent to do good. My bad!
No it isn’t condescending and hubris to ask. Why shouldn’t they be asked? Especially when one appears to be self deceived and has not really accepted all of Christ’s message or God’s word? We are to continually examine ourselves.
If you never make a conscious decision to overcome evil - to resist temptation - then its not possible to do so. That is not the same as trying to do good.
Oct 12, 2019 22:12:14 #
Rose42 wrote:
No it isn’t condescending and hubris to ask. Why shouldn’t they be asked? Especially when one appears to be self deceived and has not really accepted all of Christ’s message or God’s word? We are to continually examine ourselves.
If you never make a conscious decision to overcome evil - to resist temptation - then its not possible to do so. That is not the same as trying to do good.
If you never make a conscious decision to overcome evil - to resist temptation - then its not possible to do so. That is not the same as trying to do good.
Fine. Good discussion and thank you for your great input. Appreciate you taking the time to respond but worry about your tendency to judgment. I may be out of line.
Oct 13, 2019 09:40:01 #
rumitoid wrote:
Fine. Good discussion and thank you for your great input. Appreciate you taking the time to respond but worry about your tendency to judgment. I may be out of line.
Its what I see. Not judging and certainly not condemning.
People can study for years and still believe false doctrine. Some trinity deniers are a good example. Some Catholic apologists are also good examples. Any muslim, mormon, etc too.
I grew up with bad theology. But the good Lord kept poking me and I wasted many years of my life fighting him. Finally I was driven to my knees - literally - in a muddy field realizing I needed Christ and could do nothing on my own. That despite all my years of fighting He was still patiently waiting. “His steadfast love never ceases. His mercy never comes to an end”.
Oct 13, 2019 15:28:47 #
Rose42 wrote:
No it isn’t condescending and hubris to ask. Why shouldn’t they be asked? Especially when one appears to be self deceived and has not really accepted all of Christ’s message or God’s word? We are to continually examine ourselves.
If you never make a conscious decision to overcome evil - to resist temptation - then its not possible to do so. That is not the same as trying to do good.
If you never make a conscious decision to overcome evil - to resist temptation - then its not possible to do so. That is not the same as trying to do good.
If you MAKE a conscious decision to overcome evil--to resist temptation--then it is not possible to do so. If you cannot grasp this basic understanding of God's spirit and grace, we are at an impasse. There is probably room for both of us in God's kingdom, though.
Oct 13, 2019 15:32:55 #
Rose42 wrote:
Its what I see. Not judging and certainly not cond... (show quote)
What a beautiful and moving testimony. Thank you. Yet what you said here is all that I am talking about "realizing I needed Christ and could do nothing on my own." Nothing on your own, and that includes resisting temptation and doing good. The will has one purpose: surrender to the strength, guidance, and will of Christ.
Oct 13, 2019 16:09:06 #
rumitoid wrote:
If you MAKE a conscious decision to overcome evil--to resist temptation--then it is not possible to do so. If you cannot grasp this basic understanding of God's spirit and grace, we are at an impasse. There is probably room for both of us in God's kingdom, though.
You are using your own personal interpretation of what you want the bible to mean and its not correct. Resisting temptation is always a choice whether you realize it or not - always. If we never had to make a decision we'd be sinless and that's not biblical either.
Oct 13, 2019 17:32:56 #
Rose42 wrote:
You are using your own personal interpretation of what you want the bible to mean and its not correct. Resisting temptation is always a choice whether you realize it or not - always. If we never had to make a decision we'd be sinless and that's not biblical either.
This where we miss each other. You said "If we never had to make a decision." It is a decision! Our only decision! The decision is surrender to spirit and grace, not our own understanding, will, and intent.
Oct 13, 2019 17:44:37 #
rumitoid wrote:
This where we miss each other. You said "If we never had to make a decision." It is a decision! Our only decision! The decision is surrender to spirit and grace, not our own understanding, will, and intent.
You are trying to put a mystical spin on something that isn't mystical.
Oct 13, 2019 18:34:52 #
Rose42 wrote:
You are trying to put a mystical spin on something that isn't mystical.
If you so say. I thought I was presenting what Jesus said clearly. Almost all Christians do not put enough reliance on spirit and grace nor really understand it. Of all the pastors I have known in forty years, each one cautioned against such full reliance. "Stay grounded in the word" is basically what all have said.
Here is a book for you: Revolution Within: a fresh look at supernatural living, by Dwight Edwards, direct descendant of Jonathan Edwards.
Oct 14, 2019 11:27:44 #
rumitoid wrote:
If you so say. I thought I was presenting what Jesus said clearly. Almost all Christians do not put enough reliance on spirit and grace nor really understand it. Of all the pastors I have known in forty years, each one cautioned against such full reliance. "Stay grounded in the word" is basically what all have said.
Here is a book for you: Revolution Within: a fresh look at supernatural living, by Dwight Edwards, direct descendant of Jonathan Edwards.
Here is a book for you: Revolution Within: a fresh look at supernatural living, by Dwight Edwards, direct descendant of Jonathan Edwards.
It would be easier to get points across in person.
I have not heard of the book or of Dwight Edwards. I will look into it.
Oct 14, 2019 19:41:26 #
Rose42 wrote:
It would be easier to get points across in person.
I have not heard of the book or of Dwight Edwards. I will look into it.
I have not heard of the book or of Dwight Edwards. I will look into it.
You can get the whole gist and implications from reading the Foreword. I truly feel you need to read this at least.
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