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Law and order...whats that?
Oct 5, 2019 11:26:12   #
MR Mister Loc: Washington DC
 
I tend to be one of the last people to buy into conspiracy theories – especially when they seem to require a stretch of imagination too far beyond the facts. On the other hand, there are a lot of conspiracies that can be seen in plain sight. Obviously, Democrats are conspiring to impeach President Trump. Trump is conspiring to make them look like fools. Good old fashion strategizing with others is … conspiring. We could not arrange a lunch date without engaging in the practice.

Between the ridiculous and the common, there is a range of conspiring (strategizing) that is kept out of sight for obvious reasons. We do not want others to know that we are conspiring — or maybe it is even illegal. Such conspiracies are like those dark holes in outer space. We first discover their existence by all the events surrounding them. We can deduce their existence – and gradually see more detail as to how it is operating.

That got me thinking about the whistleblower in the case of Trump’s phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Under American law, such as a person is to be kept in a cloak of secrecy – the whistleblower, not Zelensky. They are to be protected and their identification never revealed.

The person who blew the whistle on Trump was accorded that protection initially. But I could not help but wonder who that person was – or more importantly, how he or she may have fit in with all those other intel insiders’ efforts to get Trump. Was this person associated with one of the intel agencies? Was this person a member of the #NeverTrump Resistance Movement – connected to the investigators currently being investigated? Maybe someone associated with the Democrats on Capitol Hill?

But alas, the identity of the person is not to be known. That also bothered me. I do recall that our Founders were so opposed to secret accusations – the kinds used during the Inquisition, the Salem witch h****rs, segregationist Democrats and by Twentieth Century N**i and C*******t regimes – that they actually forbade it in the Constitution. It is amazing how all these politicians can point to the Constitution when convenient and ignore it when not so convenient.

If you do not believe me, go look up the Sixth Amendment. Oh Hell, I save you the effort.

Known as “the Confrontation Clause,” it states that “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to … to be confronted with the witnesses against him.” The courts have seen this also as a right to cross-examine the accuser.

Yes, I know that impeachment is not technically a criminal case in the traditional sense of the word – but the President has been accused of a crime and could eventually be put on “trial” by the Senate. Regardless of any technical legal distinctions, the very idea of secret accusers is evil and repugnant to free society. The Supreme Court should revisit the issue in terms of whistleblowers.

Removing the dubious protective shield from whistleblowers who make potentially criminal accusations – as opposed to violations of policy – would also prevent all that speculative rumor-mongering and partisan political posturing based on bias.

If you hear from Republicans, the whistleblower in the Trump case is more of a t*****r while the anti-Trumpers suggest he or she is a noble patriot – and we the people have no idea which it is. Or do we?

In this case, the secret identity will be virtually impossible to maintain. Our nation’s capital leaks like a third-world sewer system. In fact, there are undoubtedly scores – maybe hundreds – of folks who already know the identity of the whistleblower – including no few members of the press.

We have already received reports that the person comes out of the CIA – and can assume from his access to the top White House officials, he or she is pretty high up in the agency. We learned from the Inspector General’s referral to the Justice Department that the person may have some “political biases.” These days, “some political biases” would likely mean you are playing on one team or the other.

We know from the whistleblower’s complaint that it is highly sophisticated with a scent of lawyering. Some reports confirm that the whistleblower worked with a number of attorneys in developing the complaint. And who are these characters? What are their associations? Who paid for them? (Remember how the attorneys for Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s accuser were recommended by the office of California Senator Diane Feinstein – top Democrat on the committee holding Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearings?)

Now comes the most disturbing information to date. It has been reported that the whistleblower in the Trump case’s first contacted … this is a doozie – California Congressman Adam Schiff – the Democrat chairman of the very committee investigating the whistleblower complaint. For all we know it is Adam Schiff, I pray the American people have the smarts to understand there country is being dismantled by the left!

As more and more information is revealed, my natural resistance to conspiracy theories is greatly weakened. This is starting to look more and more like a continuation of the Comey-Brennan-Clapper-McCabe-Strzok-Ohr-(etc.) concerted effort (conspiracy?) to remove Trump from office. Was this whistleblower a sleeper cell in an ongoing effort – part of the insurance policy mentioned by Peter Strzok in a text message to his paramour?

Since E******n Day 2016, there has been an ongoing effort to first block Trump’s inauguration and them to commence the impeachment effort. It has been an ever-present part of the Trump presidency. What we have today is a mock impeachment process (a real impeachment hearing requires a full House v**e). Impeachment was never initially predicated on anything Trump did or did not do, but on myopic termination to remove him from office. The claimed justifications for impeachment were subsequent to the decision to impeach – just as this current rash of investigations has little to do with fact-finding and all to do with a predetermined decision to impeach.

Despite three years of effort – and several failed attempts – it would appear that the cloaked whistleblower is just the latest attempt by the #NeverTrump Resistance Movement to achieve their longstanding desire. It is almost certain that we will learn the identity – and won’t that ignite another round of political warfare? Stay tuned.

Reply
Oct 5, 2019 11:36:46   #
debeda
 
MR Mister wrote:
I tend to be one of the last people to buy into conspiracy theories – especially when they seem to require a stretch of imagination too far beyond the facts. On the other hand, there are a lot of conspiracies that can be seen in plain sight. Obviously, Democrats are conspiring to impeach President Trump. Trump is conspiring to make them look like fools. Good old fashion strategizing with others is … conspiring. We could not arrange a lunch date without engaging in the practice.

Between the ridiculous and the common, there is a range of conspiring (strategizing) that is kept out of sight for obvious reasons. We do not want others to know that we are conspiring — or maybe it is even illegal. Such conspiracies are like those dark holes in outer space. We first discover their existence by all the events surrounding them. We can deduce their existence – and gradually see more detail as to how it is operating.

That got me thinking about the whistleblower in the case of Trump’s phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Under American law, such as a person is to be kept in a cloak of secrecy – the whistleblower, not Zelensky. They are to be protected and their identification never revealed.

The person who blew the whistle on Trump was accorded that protection initially. But I could not help but wonder who that person was – or more importantly, how he or she may have fit in with all those other intel insiders’ efforts to get Trump. Was this person associated with one of the intel agencies? Was this person a member of the #NeverTrump Resistance Movement – connected to the investigators currently being investigated? Maybe someone associated with the Democrats on Capitol Hill?

But alas, the identity of the person is not to be known. That also bothered me. I do recall that our Founders were so opposed to secret accusations – the kinds used during the Inquisition, the Salem witch h****rs, segregationist Democrats and by Twentieth Century N**i and C*******t regimes – that they actually forbade it in the Constitution. It is amazing how all these politicians can point to the Constitution when convenient and ignore it when not so convenient.

If you do not believe me, go look up the Sixth Amendment. Oh Hell, I save you the effort.

Known as “the Confrontation Clause,” it states that “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to … to be confronted with the witnesses against him.” The courts have seen this also as a right to cross-examine the accuser.

Yes, I know that impeachment is not technically a criminal case in the traditional sense of the word – but the President has been accused of a crime and could eventually be put on “trial” by the Senate. Regardless of any technical legal distinctions, the very idea of secret accusers is evil and repugnant to free society. The Supreme Court should revisit the issue in terms of whistleblowers.

Removing the dubious protective shield from whistleblowers who make potentially criminal accusations – as opposed to violations of policy – would also prevent all that speculative rumor-mongering and partisan political posturing based on bias.

If you hear from Republicans, the whistleblower in the Trump case is more of a t*****r while the anti-Trumpers suggest he or she is a noble patriot – and we the people have no idea which it is. Or do we?

In this case, the secret identity will be virtually impossible to maintain. Our nation’s capital leaks like a third-world sewer system. In fact, there are undoubtedly scores – maybe hundreds – of folks who already know the identity of the whistleblower – including no few members of the press.

We have already received reports that the person comes out of the CIA – and can assume from his access to the top White House officials, he or she is pretty high up in the agency. We learned from the Inspector General’s referral to the Justice Department that the person may have some “political biases.” These days, “some political biases” would likely mean you are playing on one team or the other.

We know from the whistleblower’s complaint that it is highly sophisticated with a scent of lawyering. Some reports confirm that the whistleblower worked with a number of attorneys in developing the complaint. And who are these characters? What are their associations? Who paid for them? (Remember how the attorneys for Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s accuser were recommended by the office of California Senator Diane Feinstein – top Democrat on the committee holding Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearings?)

Now comes the most disturbing information to date. It has been reported that the whistleblower in the Trump case’s first contacted … this is a doozie – California Congressman Adam Schiff – the Democrat chairman of the very committee investigating the whistleblower complaint. For all we know it is Adam Schiff, I pray the American people have the smarts to understand there country is being dismantled by the left!

As more and more information is revealed, my natural resistance to conspiracy theories is greatly weakened. This is starting to look more and more like a continuation of the Comey-Brennan-Clapper-McCabe-Strzok-Ohr-(etc.) concerted effort (conspiracy?) to remove Trump from office. Was this whistleblower a sleeper cell in an ongoing effort – part of the insurance policy mentioned by Peter Strzok in a text message to his paramour?

Since E******n Day 2016, there has been an ongoing effort to first block Trump’s inauguration and them to commence the impeachment effort. It has been an ever-present part of the Trump presidency. What we have today is a mock impeachment process (a real impeachment hearing requires a full House v**e). Impeachment was never initially predicated on anything Trump did or did not do, but on myopic termination to remove him from office. The claimed justifications for impeachment were subsequent to the decision to impeach – just as this current rash of investigations has little to do with fact-finding and all to do with a predetermined decision to impeach.

Despite three years of effort – and several failed attempts – it would appear that the cloaked whistleblower is just the latest attempt by the #NeverTrump Resistance Movement to achieve their longstanding desire. It is almost certain that we will learn the identity – and won’t that ignite another round of political warfare? Stay tuned.
I tend to be one of the last people to buy into co... (show quote)


Terrific post, Mister
I also believe the constant smear campaign against our President is serving to keep him from getting more done to put Americans and America first, and to dismantle the g*******t traps set against our Republic during the Bush and Obama regimes.

Reply
Oct 5, 2019 12:21:32   #
Lonewolf
 
MR Mister wrote:
I tend to be one of the last people to buy into conspiracy theories – especially when they seem to require a stretch of imagination too far beyond the facts. On the other hand, there are a lot of conspiracies that can be seen in plain sight. Obviously, Democrats are conspiring to impeach President Trump. Trump is conspiring to make them look like fools. Good old fashion strategizing with others is … conspiring. We could not arrange a lunch date without engaging in the practice.

Between the ridiculous and the common, there is a range of conspiring (strategizing) that is kept out of sight for obvious reasons. We do not want others to know that we are conspiring — or maybe it is even illegal. Such conspiracies are like those dark holes in outer space. We first discover their existence by all the events surrounding them. We can deduce their existence – and gradually see more detail as to how it is operating.

That got me thinking about the whistleblower in the case of Trump’s phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Under American law, such as a person is to be kept in a cloak of secrecy – the whistleblower, not Zelensky. They are to be protected and their identification never revealed.

The person who blew the whistle on Trump was accorded that protection initially. But I could not help but wonder who that person was – or more importantly, how he or she may have fit in with all those other intel insiders’ efforts to get Trump. Was this person associated with one of the intel agencies? Was this person a member of the #NeverTrump Resistance Movement – connected to the investigators currently being investigated? Maybe someone associated with the Democrats on Capitol Hill?

But alas, the identity of the person is not to be known. That also bothered me. I do recall that our Founders were so opposed to secret accusations – the kinds used during the Inquisition, the Salem witch h****rs, segregationist Democrats and by Twentieth Century N**i and C*******t regimes – that they actually forbade it in the Constitution. It is amazing how all these politicians can point to the Constitution when convenient and ignore it when not so convenient.

If you do not believe me, go look up the Sixth Amendment. Oh Hell, I save you the effort.

Known as “the Confrontation Clause,” it states that “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to … to be confronted with the witnesses against him.” The courts have seen this also as a right to cross-examine the accuser.

Yes, I know that impeachment is not technically a criminal case in the traditional sense of the word – but the President has been accused of a crime and could eventually be put on “trial” by the Senate. Regardless of any technical legal distinctions, the very idea of secret accusers is evil and repugnant to free society. The Supreme Court should revisit the issue in terms of whistleblowers.

Removing the dubious protective shield from but who make potentially criminal accusations – as opposed to violations of policy – would also prevent all that speculative rumor-mongering and partisan political posturing based on bias.

If you hear from Republicans, the whistleblower in the Trump case is more of a t*****r while the anti-Trumpers suggest he or she is a noble patriot – and we the people have no idea which it is. Or do we?

In this case, the secret identity will be virtually impossible to maintain. Our nation’s capital leaks like a third-world sewer system. In fact, there are undoubtedly scores – maybe hundreds – of folks who already know the identity of the whistleblower – including no few members of the press.

We have already received reports that the person comes out of the CIA – and can assume from his access to the top White House officials, he or she is pretty high up in the agency. We learned from the Inspector General’s referral to the Justice Department that the person may have some “political biases.” These days, “some political biases” would likely mean you are playing on one team or the other.

We know from the whistleblower’s complaint that it is highly sophisticated with a scent of lawyering. Some reports confirm that the whistleblower worked with a number of attorneys in developing the complaint. And who are these characters? What are their associations? Who paid for them? (Remember how the attorneys for Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s accuser were recommended by the office of California Senator Diane Feinstein – top Democrat on the committee holding Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearings?)

Now comes the most disturbing information to date. It has been reported that the whistleblower in the Trump case’s first contacted … this is a doozie – California Congressman Adam Schiff – the Democrat chairman of the very committee investigating the whistleblower complaint. For all we know it is Adam Schiff, I pray the American people have the smarts to understand there country is being dismantled by the left!

As more and more information is revealed, my natural resistance to conspiracy theories is greatly weakened. This is starting to look more and more like a continuation of the Comey-Brennan-Clapper-McCabe-Strzok-Ohr-(etc.) concerted effort (conspiracy?) to remove Trump from office. Was this whistleblower a sleeper cell in an ongoing effort – part of the insurance policy mentioned by Peter Strzok in a text message to his paramour?

Since E******n Day 2016, there has been an ongoing effort to first block Trump’s inauguration and them to commence the impeachment effort. It has been an ever-present part of the Trump presidency. What we have today is a mock impeachment process (a real impeachment hearing requires a full House v**e). Impeachment was never initially predicated on anything Trump did or did not do, but on myopic termination to remove him from office. The claimed justifications for impeachment were subsequent to the decision to impeach – just as this current rash of investigations has little to do with fact-finding and all to do with a predetermined decision to impeach.

Despite three years of effort – and several failed attempts – it would appear that the cloaked whistleblower is just the latest attempt by the #NeverTrump Resistance Movement to achieve their longstanding desire. It is almost certain that we will learn the identity – and won’t that ignite another round of political warfare? Stay tuned.
I tend to be one of the last people to buy into co... (show quote)


First your post is so long I can't respond everything you said but as far as Trump being able to face his accuser but Trump is on being investigated at this point.
And by the way there's another whistleblower standing in the

Reply
 
 
Oct 8, 2019 10:13:10   #
MR Mister Loc: Washington DC
 
Lonewolf wrote:
First your post is so long I can't respond everything you said but as far as Trump being able to face his accuser but Trump is on being investigated at this point.
And by the way there's another whistleblower standing in the


The f**e assault your C****e party is doing will not work. It's a violation of the Constitution. All of Congress must v**e to make it official, jezz how dumb can the left be?



Reply
Oct 18, 2019 13:36:20   #
eagleye13 Loc: Fl
 
MR Mister wrote:
I tend to be one of the last people to buy into conspiracy theories – especially when they seem to require a stretch of imagination too far beyond the facts. On the other hand, there are a lot of conspiracies that can be seen in plain sight. Obviously, Democrats are conspiring to impeach President Trump. Trump is conspiring to make them look like fools. Good old fashion strategizing with others is … conspiring. We could not arrange a lunch date without engaging in the practice.

Between the ridiculous and the common, there is a range of conspiring (strategizing) that is kept out of sight for obvious reasons. We do not want others to know that we are conspiring — or maybe it is even illegal. Such conspiracies are like those dark holes in outer space. We first discover their existence by all the events surrounding them. We can deduce their existence – and gradually see more detail as to how it is operating.

That got me thinking about the whistleblower in the case of Trump’s phone call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. Under American law, such as a person is to be kept in a cloak of secrecy – the whistleblower, not Zelensky. They are to be protected and their identification never revealed.

The person who blew the whistle on Trump was accorded that protection initially. But I could not help but wonder who that person was – or more importantly, how he or she may have fit in with all those other intel insiders’ efforts to get Trump. Was this person associated with one of the intel agencies? Was this person a member of the #NeverTrump Resistance Movement – connected to the investigators currently being investigated? Maybe someone associated with the Democrats on Capitol Hill?

But alas, the identity of the person is not to be known. That also bothered me. I do recall that our Founders were so opposed to secret accusations – the kinds used during the Inquisition, the Salem witch h****rs, segregationist Democrats and by Twentieth Century N**i and C*******t regimes – that they actually forbade it in the Constitution. It is amazing how all these politicians can point to the Constitution when convenient and ignore it when not so convenient.

If you do not believe me, go look up the Sixth Amendment. Oh Hell, I save you the effort.

Known as “the Confrontation Clause,” it states that “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to … to be confronted with the witnesses against him.” The courts have seen this also as a right to cross-examine the accuser.

Yes, I know that impeachment is not technically a criminal case in the traditional sense of the word – but the President has been accused of a crime and could eventually be put on “trial” by the Senate. Regardless of any technical legal distinctions, the very idea of secret accusers is evil and repugnant to free society. The Supreme Court should revisit the issue in terms of whistleblowers.

Removing the dubious protective shield from whistleblowers who make potentially criminal accusations – as opposed to violations of policy – would also prevent all that speculative rumor-mongering and partisan political posturing based on bias.

If you hear from Republicans, the whistleblower in the Trump case is more of a t*****r while the anti-Trumpers suggest he or she is a noble patriot – and we the people have no idea which it is. Or do we?

In this case, the secret identity will be virtually impossible to maintain. Our nation’s capital leaks like a third-world sewer system. In fact, there are undoubtedly scores – maybe hundreds – of folks who already know the identity of the whistleblower – including no few members of the press.

We have already received reports that the person comes out of the CIA – and can assume from his access to the top White House officials, he or she is pretty high up in the agency. We learned from the Inspector General’s referral to the Justice Department that the person may have some “political biases.” These days, “some political biases” would likely mean you are playing on one team or the other.

We know from the whistleblower’s complaint that it is highly sophisticated with a scent of lawyering. Some reports confirm that the whistleblower worked with a number of attorneys in developing the complaint. And who are these characters? What are their associations? Who paid for them? (Remember how the attorneys for Justice Brett Kavanaugh’s accuser were recommended by the office of California Senator Diane Feinstein – top Democrat on the committee holding Kavanaugh’s confirmation hearings?)

Now comes the most disturbing information to date. It has been reported that the whistleblower in the Trump case’s first contacted … this is a doozie – California Congressman Adam Schiff – the Democrat chairman of the very committee investigating the whistleblower complaint. For all we know it is Adam Schiff, I pray the American people have the smarts to understand there country is being dismantled by the left!

As more and more information is revealed, my natural resistance to conspiracy theories is greatly weakened. This is starting to look more and more like a continuation of the Comey-Brennan-Clapper-McCabe-Strzok-Ohr-(etc.) concerted effort (conspiracy?) to remove Trump from office. Was this whistleblower a sleeper cell in an ongoing effort – part of the insurance policy mentioned by Peter Strzok in a text message to his paramour?

Since E******n Day 2016, there has been an ongoing effort to first block Trump’s inauguration and them to commence the impeachment effort. It has been an ever-present part of the Trump presidency. What we have today is a mock impeachment process (a real impeachment hearing requires a full House v**e). Impeachment was never initially predicated on anything Trump did or did not do, but on myopic termination to remove him from office. The claimed justifications for impeachment were subsequent to the decision to impeach – just as this current rash of investigations has little to do with fact-finding and all to do with a predetermined decision to impeach.

Despite three years of effort – and several failed attempts – it would appear that the cloaked whistleblower is just the latest attempt by the #NeverTrump Resistance Movement to achieve their longstanding desire. It is almost certain that we will learn the identity – and won’t that ignite another round of political warfare? Stay tuned.
I tend to be one of the last people to buy into co... (show quote)


"It is amazing how all these politicians can point to the Constitution when convenient and ignore it when not so convenient.

If you do not believe me, go look up the Sixth Amendment. Oh Hell, I save you the effort.

Known as “the Confrontation Clause,” it states that “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to … to be confronted with the witnesses against him.” The courts have seen this also as a right to cross-examine the accuser.

Yes, I know that impeachment is not technically a criminal case in the traditional sense of the word – but the President has been accused of a crime and could eventually be put on “trial” by the Senate. Regardless of any technical legal distinctions, the very idea of secret accusers is evil and repugnant to free society.
*****************The Supreme Court should revisit the issue in terms of whistleblowers. *********

Removing the dubious protective shield from whistleblowers who make potentially criminal accusations – as opposed to violations of policy – would also prevent all that speculative rumor-mongering and partisan political posturing based on bias." - MR Mister

Politics is getting in the way of getting to the t***h.

Reply
Oct 19, 2019 14:27:12   #
MR Mister Loc: Washington DC
 
Lonewolf wrote:
First your post is so long I can't respond everything you said but as far as Trump being able to face his accuser but Trump is on being investigated at this point.
And by the way there's another whistleblower standing in the


LOL, to long? You can't read? I bet you have a buddy read it for you. lol

It's pretty obvious the Adam Shifft is the whistleblower.

Reply
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