One Political PlazaSM - Home of politics
The Teachings of The Targums - Ancient Aramaic Translations from the Hebrew
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 next>>
Sep 30, 2019 18:47:05   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Onkeles Targum, a translation of the Bible from Hebrew into Aramaic, uses the word memra in place of the Hebrew word dabar to denote the Word of God and also God Himself.

"The Word of God" refers to a divine entity within God Himself, yet distinguishable at times from God.

This Targum study illustrates that Yeshua/Jesus is the Word of God, and is God.

Translators, Rabbi Jonathan ben Uzziel and Targum Yerushalmi, translate the "word of God," "God," and "me" and other words as memra; indicating memra to be not just an ordinary word, but a special name of God.

John 1 [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
----------
The Teachings of The Targums - Aramaic Translations of the Hebrew

When the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity 450 years before the birth of Yeshua, they now spoke Aramaic as their native language.
Aramaic is a dialect of ancient Hebrew, but as different from it as modern Italian is from its classical Latin ancestor.
During the 1st and early 2nd centuries A.D., Aramaic translations were made of the Hebrew Tanakh.

Tanakh (O.T.) - the Jewish scriptures are divided into 3 divisions--the Torah/Law, the Prophets, and the collected Writings. The Pentateuch/Torah is the 1st of three divisions of the Hebrew Scriptures. It consists of the 1st five books of the Hebrew Bible.

These translations, called Targums, were The Living Bibles of their day, an interpretive paraphrase of Scripture. They are how first-century Jews understood their Tanakh.

These Targums show that 1st century Jews understood the phrase "the Word of God" as referring to a divine entity within God Himself, yet distinguishable at times from God.

The word Targum means translation or interpretation, but the word is normally reserved for ancient Aramaic translations of the Hebrew scriptures.
The Targums were authoritative Aramaic paraphrases of the books of the TaNaKh read in the synagogues along with the Hebrew of the Torah and Haftorah readings.

The Aramaic translations of scripture were needed as Hebrew declined in use during the 2nd Temple Period.

One tradition ascribes the first targum to Ezra. In the earliest days, targumim were not written down, but were informal translations made after the Hebrew scriptures were read in the synagogues.

Targum fragments found in the Dead Sea Scrolls indicate that use of written targumim can be dated to pre-Christian times, and eventually two of these written Targumim, Targum Onqelos on the Pentateuch and Targum Jonathan on the Prophets gained official status, and were specifically designated for use in synagogue services.

Every book but Ezra-Nehemiah and Daniel (partially written in Aramaic to begin with) has at least one extant Targum.
--------------
THE MEMRA, THE WORD OF THE LORD

Psalm 33 [6] By the Word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

The Aramaic word 'Memra', meaning the ‘Word’ or ‘The Word of the Lord’, is used when physical manifestations of God appear or when God is mentioned twice in the same verse.
------------------
The Jerusalem Targum of Johathan ben Uziel renders Bereshit 1:27 as follows: "

Gen. 1 [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And the Word [Memra] of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the Lord, the Lord created, male and female created He them."
-------------------
The Memra acts as a mediator between the Father and Creation:

And I will establish my covenant between My Word {Memra} and between you

Targum Onkelos Gen. 17:7

Gen. 17 [7] And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
--------------------
Gen. 9 [17] And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

And YHVH said to Noah, "This is the token of the covenant which I have established between My Word [Memra] and between all flesh that is upon the earth.

Targum Onkelos Gen. 9:17
--------------------
The Memra is God, yet is a separate personality from the Father and Holy Spirit:

And the Word [Memra] of the Lord caused to descend upon the peoples of Sodom and Gommorah, brimstone and fire from the Lord in heaven.

Targum Jonathan on Gen. 19:24

Gen. 19 [24] Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
--------------------
And Israel saw the great strong hand of God, what He did to the Egyptians. They feared God and believed in His Word [Memra] and in His servant Moses.

Onkeles Targum on Exodus 14:31
-------------------
Other Targum verses:

Targum - The Word of the Lord created man.
---------------
Genesis 6:6-7 -
Targum - And it repented the Lord through His word that He made man on the earth.
---------------
Genesis 9:12 - And God said, "This sign that I set for the covenant between me and you."

Targum - And the Lord said, "This is the sign that I set for covenant between my Word and you."
---------------
Genesis 15:6 - Targum - And Abraham believed in the Word of the Lord.
--------------
Genesis 20:3 - Targum - And the Word from before the Lord came to Abimelech.
--------------
Genesis 31: 49 - Targum - May the Word of the Lord keep watch between you and me.
---------------
Exodus 14:31 - Targum - And they believed in the Word of the LORD.
---------------
Exodus 20: 1- Targum - And the Word of the Lord spoke all these words.
--------------
Exodus 25:22 - Targum - And I will appoint my Word for you there.
-------------
Leviticus 26:9- Targum - And I will turn through my Word to do good to you.
--------------
Numbers 10:35 - Targum - Rise up, O Word of the Lord!
---------------
Numbers 11:23 - Targum - Is the Word of the Lord detained?
---------------
Deuteronomy 1:30 - Targum - The Lord your God who leads before you, His Word will fight for you.
---------------
Deuteronomy 18:19 - Targum - My Word will require it of him.
---------------
Deuteronomy 31:3 - Targum - The Lord your God, His Word will pass before you.
---------------
Joshua 1:5 -Targum - As my Word was in support of Moses, so my Word will be in your support.
--------------
Judges 11:10 - Targum - The Word of the Lord will be witness between us.
--------------
Isaiah 45:17 - Targum - Israel will be saved by the Word of the Lord.
------------------------------
Jerusalem Targum Gen. 16:3 Hagar prayed in the name of the Word (Memra).

Onkelos Gen 28:20 "then shall the Word (Memra) of YHVH be my G-d." (the actual biblical text according to RSV "then God will be my God.)

Onkelos Gen 17:7) I will establish my covenant between my Word (Memra) and between you."

Jerusalem Targum Ex. 20:1 The Word of YHVH is the Torah giver.

psuedo Jonathan Gen. 49:1) The Word of YHVH is savior.

Johnathan Isaiah 45:17 Word is savior.

Johnathan Hosea 1:7) I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and I will save them by the Word of YHVH, their God
-------------------------------
Rabbi Tzvi Nassi cites the Jerusalem Targum to Shemot (Exodus) 3:14:

And the Word [Memra] of the Lord said unto Moses: "I am He who said unto the world, ‘Be!’ And it was; and who in the future shall say to it, ‘Be!’ And it shall be." And He said: "Thus thou shalt say to the children of Israel;

‘I Am hath sent me unto you’."4
-----------------
Two YHVHs in the TaNaK - The Memra

"Whenever the Targums come to passages where YHVH is anthropomorphized or seen, or where two or more YHVHs are indicated by the text, the Targums will often substitute "The Word [Memra] of YHVH" for YHVH.

In Gen. 19:4 the Tenach says: And YHVH rained brimstone and fire upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah, from YHVH, from the heavens

The Hebrew grammar here indicates that one YHVH rains fire from another YHVH).

THe Targum Jonathan substitutes "The Word of YHVH / the LORD" for the first of the two YHVHs as follows:

And the Word of the YHVH caused to descend upon the peoples of Sodom and Gommorah, brimstone and fire from the YHVH in heaven.

In another example the Torah, Ex. 24:1 - a (YHVH is the speaker, see Ex. 20:1-2)

Now He [YHVH] said to Moses, "come up to YHVH... "The Targum Jonathan paraphrases the speaker in Ex. 20:1 with the substitution "the Word [Memra] of YHVH" in place of "YHVH."

And the Word of the Lord spoke all these glorious words ... So it would seem that one of these entities called "YHVH" in these Torah passages was actually understood by the Targumists as being the "Word of YHVH."
--------------------
Targum Onkelos:

Gen 22 [14] And Abraham called the name of that place Yehovah-Yireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

Gen 22:14 Abraham worships prays in the name of Word (Memra-Devar)

"You are the YHVH who does see, but you cannot be seen." Abraham prays "in the name of the Word of YHVH" to the YHVH who "cannot be seen."

Here two YHVH are very apparent. Abraham is praying in the name of the Word of YHVH but is praying to the YHVH who cannot be seen.
--------------
Jerusalem Targum Ex. 3:14

And the Word [Memra] of YHVH said to Moses: "I am He who said unto the world 'Be!' and it was: and who in the future shall say to it 'Be!' and it shall be."

And He said: "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'I Am' has sent me to you."
---------------
The Fragmentary Targum of the Torah also expresses that the Word of YHVH was the Creator:The first night, when the "Word of YHVH" was revealed to the world in order to create it, the world was desolate and void, and darkness spread over the face of the abyss and the "Word of the Lord" was bright and illuminating and He called it the first night.

Fragmentary Targum Ex. 12:42
--------------
That the Word of YHVH was the Creator can also be seen in the Tenach itself: By the Word of YHVH were the heavens made, And all the hosts of them by the Spirit of His mouth. (Ps. 33:6)

The Word was also the covenant maker. For example the Noachdic covenant was between the Word and all mankind:And YHVH said to Noah, "This is the token of the covenant which I have established between My Word [Memra] and between all flesh that is upon the earth.

Targum Onkelos Gen. 9:17
---------------
Often when the Targums come to passages where YHVH is seen, or where two or more YHVHs are indicated by the text, the Targums will substitute "The Word [Memra] of YHVH" for YHVH.

In Gen. 19:4 And YHVH rained brimstone and fire upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah, from YHVH, from the heavens. The Hebrew grammar here indicates that one YHVH rains fire from another YHVH)

But Targum Jonathan substitutes "The Word of YHVH / the LORD" for the first of the two YHVH as follows:

And the Word of the YHVH caused to descend upon the peoples of Sodom and Gommorah, brimstone and fire from the YHVH in heaven.
-------------------
In Ex. 24:1 - a (YHVH is the speaker, see Ex. 20:1-2) Now He [YHVH] said to Moses, "come up to YHVH..."

Targum Jonathan paraphrases the speaker in Ex. 20:1 with the substitution "the Word [Memra] of YHVH" in place of "YHVH"

And the Word of the Lord spoke all these glorious words...

One of these entities called "YHVH" in these Torah passages was actually understood by the Targumists as being the "Word of
YHVH." It was, according to Targum Onkelos, this Word of YHVH that Abraham trusted in:

And Abraham trusted in the Word [Memra] of YHVHand He counted it to him for righteousness.

Targum Onkelos Gen. 15:6
--------------------
Moreover Abraham prayed in the name of the Word of YHVH: And Abraham worshipped and prayed in the name of the Word [Memra] of YHVH, and said, "You are YHVH who does see, but You cannot be seen."

Jerusalem Targum Gen. 22:14
--------------------
Note that here Abraham prays "in the name of the Word of YHVH" to the YHVH who "cannot be seen."

Here two YHVH are very apparent. Abraham is praying in the name of the Word of YHVH but is praying to the YHVH who cannot be seen.

This idea is reinforced elsewhere as follows: And Hagar praised and prayed in the name of the Word [Memra] Of YHVHs who had revealed Himself to her.

Jerusalem Targum Gen. 16:3
--------------------
It was this Word of YHVH that Jacob also trusted in: And Jacob vowed a vow, saying,"If the Word [Memra] of YHVH will be my support, and will keep me in the way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Word [Memra]of YHVH be my Elohim.

Targum Onkelos on Gen. 28:20-21
-----------------------
This "Word of YHWH" was, according to Targum Jonathan, the Creator:

And the Word [Memra] of YHWH created man in his likeness, in the likeness of YHVHs, YHVH created, male and female created He them.

At the very time that the Word was becoming flesh (John 1:1, 14), Jewish writers saw that God's Word could be distinguished from God the Father Himself, yet have the fullness of God.

oneinmessiah.net - Malachi Yosef

| Reply
Sep 30, 2019 19:07:24   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
An Addendum from http://cfbac.org/memra.htm

An elaboration on the Memra


Targums are very old Aramaic translations of the Hebrew bible. They were authoritative, and spoken aloud in the synagogues along with the Hebrew of the Torah and Haftarah readings. Public readings of the Scriptures in ancient synagogues were accompanied by a translation into Aramaic because that was the spoken language of most Jews in Israel and Babylonia during the Talmudic era. The normal practice was that after each verse was read from the sacred Torah scroll, an official translator known as the Turgeman, or Meturgeman, would then recite orally an Aramaic rendering.

"Targum" is mentioned in the Talmud 108 times.

Targums were utilized in the synagogues before, during, and after the times of Y'shua— being necessary because many of the Jewish people of that day could not understand Hebrew. That's still true today. Because of their assimilation and world-wide dispersion, the vast majority of modern Jews cannot read, nor speak, nor understand the Hebrew language. Today, no doubt the most important, and the most influential translations of the Scriptures are no longer in Aramaic, but in English. The Targum of Onkelos is commonly included along with a traditional Torah scroll in synagogues, but its teachings have pretty much fallen by the wayside and for the most part, ignored.

As useful and necessary as the Targums at one time were for the Jews of Y'shua's day, their teachings today often contradict the religious beliefs of many modern Jews. In point of fact the religious beliefs of modern Judaism, and that of the Judaism of two thousand years ago, contradict each other in a very important area. That area is none other than the identity, and the nature, of God's word— the Memra' of the Aramaic Targums.

The Memra'

The most common Hebrew expression for "word" is davar, which can mean: word, thing, matter, or affair. Davar implies content and reality in one's words. Since God is somehow "untouchable" it is necessary to provide a viable link between Yhvh and His earthly creation. One of the important links regarded in ancient rabbinical thought was "The Word", called memra' in Aramaic (from the Hebrew and Aramaic root, 'mr which means: to say— the root used throughout Genesis 1 when God "said" and the material world came into reality and existence). The memra' concept— that of a Divine Mediator between the unapproachable God and the creature Man— occurs hundreds of times in the Aramaic Targums.

God's word has been of utmost importance ever since the first day of creation week. It is the primary way that God, the untouchable Being, implements His will. It is also how He communicates and interacts with human beings, and how He reveals Himself in a way they can understand. On the one hand, God has done this somewhat through writings. But there is much more to God's word than just ink and letters. Those materials merely constitute an inert, man-made record. On many occasions, when God's words actually came from his heart and from His mouth, it effected much more power and impetus than that of a mere page of historical information.

Why did God even bother to speak during creation? Why didn't The Creator just do His work silently without utterance or sound? To whom, or for whom, was He speaking when He said; "Let there be light." It is clear there is a creative, dynamic force in The Almighty's voice, a power and energy in His words, a tangible release of Divine life. His word is an extension of His nature, a movement of His will— alive, powerful, and effective— not just letters, syllables, and sounds. There is vigor and activity in God's words extending far beyond the applications of thought and communication.

According to the Targums, which were at one time accepted as sacred Jewish beliefs, God's word is an entity; actually God himself. The Memra' is to be worshipped, served, obeyed, spoken to, and prayed to, as God. The Jewish apostle John (who's Hebrew name was Johanan), no doubt schooled in the Targums several years before he met Y'shua, opened his gospel with these words:

● John 1:1-3…In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (NIV)

Modern Judaism accuses Johanan of borrowing his ideology from Greek philosophy. However, John 1:1-3 was a very Jewish belief back in Johanan's day, and nothing said in that verse would have raised a single objection from any of his peers and contemporaries because that passage reflects 100% Targum teachings that were commonly dispensed in the synagogues of his day.

The Targums taught that God's word, the Memra', reigns supreme upon The Almighty's throne.

T. Deuteronomy 4:7…For what people so great, to whom the Lord is so high in the Name of the Word of the Lord? But the custom of (other) nations is to carry their gods upon their shoulders, that they may seem to be nigh them; but they cannot hear with their ears, (be they nigh or) be they afar off; but the Word of the Lord sits upon His throne high and lifted up, and hears our prayer what time we pray before Him and make our petitions. (Targum Jonathan)

According to the Targums, Jacob, an important progenitor of the people of Israel, worshipped the Memra' as his God.

T. Genesis 28:20-21…And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If the Word of Yhvh will be my support, and will keep me in the way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Word of Yhvh be my God. (Targum Onkelos)

God's Word: A Sentient Being

Whenever the Targum orators came to passages where Yhvh is anthropomorphic (visible to humans) or where two or more Yhvhs are indicated by the text, the Turgemen often substituted "The Word of the Lord" for one of the Yhvhs.

For example in Gen. 19:23-24 the Tanakh has:

● As the sun rose upon the earth and Lot entered Zoar, Yhvh rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulfurous fire from Yhvh out of heaven. (WHV)

The Hebrew grammar here indicates that one Yhvh rained fire from another Yhvh who was up in heaven. The Targum substitutes "The Word of Yhvh" for the first of the two Yhvhs as follows:

T. And the Word of Yhvh caused to descend upon the peoples of Sodom and Gomorrah, brimstone and fire from the Yhvh in heaven. (Targum Jonathan)

Targumists paraphrased the text of Exodus 20:1 by substituting "the Word of Yhvh" in place of Yhvh.

T. And the Word of the Lord spoke all the excellency of these words saying (Jerusalem Targum)

It was, according to another Targum, the Word of Yhvh whom Abraham trusted in:

T. Genesis 15:6...And Abraham trusted in the Word of Yhvh, and He counted it to him for righteousness. (Targum Onkelos)

Moreover Abraham prayed in the name of the Word of Yhvh:

T. Genesis 22:14...And Abraham worshipped and prayed in the name of the Word of Yhvh, and said, "You are Yhvh who does see, but You cannot be seen." (Jerusalem Targum)

Although Abraham prayed in the name of the Word of Yhvh, his prayer was meant for the other one, the the untouchable Yhvh who cannot be seen. So the first Yhvh, the Memra', acted as a mediator between Abraham and the True God.

The Memra' has a significant role in Abraham's covenant.

T. Genesis 17:7...And I will establish my covenant between My Word and between you (Targum Onkelos)

T. Exodus 12:42... Night second; when the Word of the Lord was revealed unto Abraham between the divided parts; when Abraham was a son of a hundred years, and Sarah was a daughter of ninety years, (Targum Jerusalem)

According to another Targum, The Word of Yhvh created Man not only in the image of God, but also in the likeness of God's word.

T. Genesis 1:27...And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them. (Jerusalem Targum)

The Memra' conversed with Moses and commissioned him to lead Israel to freedom.

T. Exodus 3:14...And the Word of Yhvh said to Moses: "I am He who said unto the world 'Be!' and it was: and who in the future shall say to it 'Be!' and it shall be." And He said: "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'I Am' has sent me to you." (Jerusalem Targum)

A partial Targum also expresses that the Word of Yhvh was the Creator.

T. Exodus 12:42...The first night, when the Word of Yhvh was revealed to the world in order to create it, the world was desolate and void, and darkness spread over the face of the abyss and the Word of the Lord was bright and illuminating and He called it the first night. (Fragmentary Targum)

The Memra' as Creator can also be seen in the Tanakh.

● Psalm 33:6...By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, by the breath of His mouth, all their host. (1985 JPS Tanakh)

Noah's covenant was between the Memra' and all mankind.

T. Genesis 9:17...And Yhvh said to Noah, "This is the token of the covenant which I have established between My Word and between all flesh that is upon the earth. (Targum Onkelos)

The Memra' is Israel's savior.

T. Isaiah 45:17, 25...But Israel shall be saved by the Word of Yhvh with an everlasting salvation. By the Word of Yhvh shall all the seed of Israel be justified. (Targum Jonathan)

T. Hosea 1:7...But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and I will save them by the Word of Yhvh, their God. (Targum Jonathan)

According to the New Testament, Y'shua is a human manifestation of the Memra'. Somehow (and who can really understand this?) the Memra' became a Jewish human being who, though coming from God, and must be spoken to as God, and prayed to as God, and worshipped as God, and served as God, is itself subject to the real God.

● John 1:14...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (NKJ)

● John 6:38...For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. (NIV)

● 1John 1:1-3...That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word Of Life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Y'shua the Messiah. (WHV)



Related References

Answering Jewish Objections To Jesus
by Michael L. Brown
Volume 1 ISBN 0-8010-6063-X
Volume 2 ISBN 0-8010-6334-5
Volume 3 ISBN 0-8010-6423-6

| Reply
Oct 1, 2019 11:54:03   #
bahmer
 
Zemirah wrote:
An Addendum from http://cfbac.org/memra.htm

An elaboration on the Memra


Targums are very old Aramaic translations of the Hebrew bible. They were authoritative, and spoken aloud in the synagogues along with the Hebrew of the Torah and Haftarah readings. Public readings of the Scriptures in ancient synagogues were accompanied by a translation into Aramaic because that was the spoken language of most Jews in Israel and Babylonia during the Talmudic era. The normal practice was that after each verse was read from the sacred Torah scroll, an official translator known as the Turgeman, or Meturgeman, would then recite orally an Aramaic rendering.

"Targum" is mentioned in the Talmud 108 times.

Targums were utilized in the synagogues before, during, and after the times of Y'shua— being necessary because many of the Jewish people of that day could not understand Hebrew. That's still true today. Because of their assimilation and world-wide dispersion, the vast majority of modern Jews cannot read, nor speak, nor understand the Hebrew language. Today, no doubt the most important, and the most influential translations of the Scriptures are no longer in Aramaic, but in English. The Targum of Onkelos is commonly included along with a traditional Torah scroll in synagogues, but its teachings have pretty much fallen by the wayside and for the most part, ignored.

As useful and necessary as the Targums at one time were for the Jews of Y'shua's day, their teachings today often contradict the religious beliefs of many modern Jews. In point of fact the religious beliefs of modern Judaism, and that of the Judaism of two thousand years ago, contradict each other in a very important area. That area is none other than the identity, and the nature, of God's word— the Memra' of the Aramaic Targums.

The Memra'

The most common Hebrew expression for "word" is davar, which can mean: word, thing, matter, or affair. Davar implies content and reality in one's words. Since God is somehow "untouchable" it is necessary to provide a viable link between Yhvh and His earthly creation. One of the important links regarded in ancient rabbinical thought was "The Word", called memra' in Aramaic (from the Hebrew and Aramaic root, 'mr which means: to say— the root used throughout Genesis 1 when God "said" and the material world came into reality and existence). The memra' concept— that of a Divine Mediator between the unapproachable God and the creature Man— occurs hundreds of times in the Aramaic Targums.

God's word has been of utmost importance ever since the first day of creation week. It is the primary way that God, the untouchable Being, implements His will. It is also how He communicates and interacts with human beings, and how He reveals Himself in a way they can understand. On the one hand, God has done this somewhat through writings. But there is much more to God's word than just ink and letters. Those materials merely constitute an inert, man-made record. On many occasions, when God's words actually came from his heart and from His mouth, it effected much more power and impetus than that of a mere page of historical information.

Why did God even bother to speak during creation? Why didn't The Creator just do His work silently without utterance or sound? To whom, or for whom, was He speaking when He said; "Let there be light." It is clear there is a creative, dynamic force in The Almighty's voice, a power and energy in His words, a tangible release of Divine life. His word is an extension of His nature, a movement of His will— alive, powerful, and effective— not just letters, syllables, and sounds. There is vigor and activity in God's words extending far beyond the applications of thought and communication.

According to the Targums, which were at one time accepted as sacred Jewish beliefs, God's word is an entity; actually God himself. The Memra' is to be worshipped, served, obeyed, spoken to, and prayed to, as God. The Jewish apostle John (who's Hebrew name was Johanan), no doubt schooled in the Targums several years before he met Y'shua, opened his gospel with these words:

● John 1:1-3…In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (NIV)

Modern Judaism accuses Johanan of borrowing his ideology from Greek philosophy. However, John 1:1-3 was a very Jewish belief back in Johanan's day, and nothing said in that verse would have raised a single objection from any of his peers and contemporaries because that passage reflects 100% Targum teachings that were commonly dispensed in the synagogues of his day.

The Targums taught that God's word, the Memra', reigns supreme upon The Almighty's throne.

T. Deuteronomy 4:7…For what people so great, to whom the Lord is so high in the Name of the Word of the Lord? But the custom of (other) nations is to carry their gods upon their shoulders, that they may seem to be nigh them; but they cannot hear with their ears, (be they nigh or) be they afar off; but the Word of the Lord sits upon His throne high and lifted up, and hears our prayer what time we pray before Him and make our petitions. (Targum Jonathan)

According to the Targums, Jacob, an important progenitor of the people of Israel, worshipped the Memra' as his God.

T. Genesis 28:20-21…And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If the Word of Yhvh will be my support, and will keep me in the way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Word of Yhvh be my God. (Targum Onkelos)

God's Word: A Sentient Being

Whenever the Targum orators came to passages where Yhvh is anthropomorphic (visible to humans) or where two or more Yhvhs are indicated by the text, the Turgemen often substituted "The Word of the Lord" for one of the Yhvhs.

For example in Gen. 19:23-24 the Tanakh has:

● As the sun rose upon the earth and Lot entered Zoar, Yhvh rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulfurous fire from Yhvh out of heaven. (WHV)

The Hebrew grammar here indicates that one Yhvh rained fire from another Yhvh who was up in heaven. The Targum substitutes "The Word of Yhvh" for the first of the two Yhvhs as follows:

T. And the Word of Yhvh caused to descend upon the peoples of Sodom and Gomorrah, brimstone and fire from the Yhvh in heaven. (Targum Jonathan)

Targumists paraphrased the text of Exodus 20:1 by substituting "the Word of Yhvh" in place of Yhvh.

T. And the Word of the Lord spoke all the excellency of these words saying (Jerusalem Targum)

It was, according to another Targum, the Word of Yhvh whom Abraham trusted in:

T. Genesis 15:6...And Abraham trusted in the Word of Yhvh, and He counted it to him for righteousness. (Targum Onkelos)

Moreover Abraham prayed in the name of the Word of Yhvh:

T. Genesis 22:14...And Abraham worshipped and prayed in the name of the Word of Yhvh, and said, "You are Yhvh who does see, but You cannot be seen." (Jerusalem Targum)

Although Abraham prayed in the name of the Word of Yhvh, his prayer was meant for the other one, the the untouchable Yhvh who cannot be seen. So the first Yhvh, the Memra', acted as a mediator between Abraham and the True God.

The Memra' has a significant role in Abraham's covenant.

T. Genesis 17:7...And I will establish my covenant between My Word and between you (Targum Onkelos)

T. Exodus 12:42... Night second; when the Word of the Lord was revealed unto Abraham between the divided parts; when Abraham was a son of a hundred years, and Sarah was a daughter of ninety years, (Targum Jerusalem)

According to another Targum, The Word of Yhvh created Man not only in the image of God, but also in the likeness of God's word.

T. Genesis 1:27...And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them. (Jerusalem Targum)

The Memra' conversed with Moses and commissioned him to lead Israel to freedom.

T. Exodus 3:14...And the Word of Yhvh said to Moses: "I am He who said unto the world 'Be!' and it was: and who in the future shall say to it 'Be!' and it shall be." And He said: "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'I Am' has sent me to you." (Jerusalem Targum)

A partial Targum also expresses that the Word of Yhvh was the Creator.

T. Exodus 12:42...The first night, when the Word of Yhvh was revealed to the world in order to create it, the world was desolate and void, and darkness spread over the face of the abyss and the Word of the Lord was bright and illuminating and He called it the first night. (Fragmentary Targum)

The Memra' as Creator can also be seen in the Tanakh.

● Psalm 33:6...By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, by the breath of His mouth, all their host. (1985 JPS Tanakh)

Noah's covenant was between the Memra' and all mankind.

T. Genesis 9:17...And Yhvh said to Noah, "This is the token of the covenant which I have established between My Word and between all flesh that is upon the earth. (Targum Onkelos)

The Memra' is Israel's savior.

T. Isaiah 45:17, 25...But Israel shall be saved by the Word of Yhvh with an everlasting salvation. By the Word of Yhvh shall all the seed of Israel be justified. (Targum Jonathan)

T. Hosea 1:7...But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and I will save them by the Word of Yhvh, their God. (Targum Jonathan)

According to the New Testament, Y'shua is a human manifestation of the Memra'. Somehow (and who can really understand this?) the Memra' became a Jewish human being who, though coming from God, and must be spoken to as God, and prayed to as God, and worshipped as God, and served as God, is itself subject to the real God.

● John 1:14...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (NKJ)

● John 6:38...For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. (NIV)

● 1John 1:1-3...That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word Of Life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Y'shua the Messiah. (WHV)



Related References

Answering Jewish Objections To Jesus
by Michael L. Brown
Volume 1 ISBN 0-8010-6063-X
Volume 2 ISBN 0-8010-6334-5
Volume 3 ISBN 0-8010-6423-6
An Addendum from http://cfbac.org/memra.htm br br... (show quote)


Amen and Amen thank you for that Zemirah that was informative and also somewhat confusing as well. But I do see that what you have posted shows that there is God the Father and God the Son or the word and God the Holy Spirit and they were all present throughout the Bible as we know it. Thanks again for this.

| Reply
Oct 1, 2019 14:21:19   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Zemirah wrote:
An Addendum from http://cfbac.org/memra.htm

An elaboration on the Memra


Targums are very old Aramaic translations of the Hebrew bible. They were authoritative, and spoken aloud in the synagogues along with the Hebrew of the Torah and Haftarah readings. Public readings of the Scriptures in ancient synagogues were accompanied by a translation into Aramaic because that was the spoken language of most Jews in Israel and Babylonia during the Talmudic era. The normal practice was that after each verse was read from the sacred Torah scroll, an official translator known as the Turgeman, or Meturgeman, would then recite orally an Aramaic rendering.

"Targum" is mentioned in the Talmud 108 times.

Targums were utilized in the synagogues before, during, and after the times of Y'shua— being necessary because many of the Jewish people of that day could not understand Hebrew. That's still true today. Because of their assimilation and world-wide dispersion, the vast majority of modern Jews cannot read, nor speak, nor understand the Hebrew language. Today, no doubt the most important, and the most influential translations of the Scriptures are no longer in Aramaic, but in English. The Targum of Onkelos is commonly included along with a traditional Torah scroll in synagogues, but its teachings have pretty much fallen by the wayside and for the most part, ignored.

As useful and necessary as the Targums at one time were for the Jews of Y'shua's day, their teachings today often contradict the religious beliefs of many modern Jews. In point of fact the religious beliefs of modern Judaism, and that of the Judaism of two thousand years ago, contradict each other in a very important area. That area is none other than the identity, and the nature, of God's word— the Memra' of the Aramaic Targums.

The Memra'

The most common Hebrew expression for "word" is davar, which can mean: word, thing, matter, or affair. Davar implies content and reality in one's words. Since God is somehow "untouchable" it is necessary to provide a viable link between Yhvh and His earthly creation. One of the important links regarded in ancient rabbinical thought was "The Word", called memra' in Aramaic (from the Hebrew and Aramaic root, 'mr which means: to say— the root used throughout Genesis 1 when God "said" and the material world came into reality and existence). The memra' concept— that of a Divine Mediator between the unapproachable God and the creature Man— occurs hundreds of times in the Aramaic Targums.

God's word has been of utmost importance ever since the first day of creation week. It is the primary way that God, the untouchable Being, implements His will. It is also how He communicates and interacts with human beings, and how He reveals Himself in a way they can understand. On the one hand, God has done this somewhat through writings. But there is much more to God's word than just ink and letters. Those materials merely constitute an inert, man-made record. On many occasions, when God's words actually came from his heart and from His mouth, it effected much more power and impetus than that of a mere page of historical information.

Why did God even bother to speak during creation? Why didn't The Creator just do His work silently without utterance or sound? To whom, or for whom, was He speaking when He said; "Let there be light." It is clear there is a creative, dynamic force in The Almighty's voice, a power and energy in His words, a tangible release of Divine life. His word is an extension of His nature, a movement of His will— alive, powerful, and effective— not just letters, syllables, and sounds. There is vigor and activity in God's words extending far beyond the applications of thought and communication.

According to the Targums, which were at one time accepted as sacred Jewish beliefs, God's word is an entity; actually God himself. The Memra' is to be worshipped, served, obeyed, spoken to, and prayed to, as God. The Jewish apostle John (who's Hebrew name was Johanan), no doubt schooled in the Targums several years before he met Y'shua, opened his gospel with these words:

● John 1:1-3…In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (NIV)

Modern Judaism accuses Johanan of borrowing his ideology from Greek philosophy. However, John 1:1-3 was a very Jewish belief back in Johanan's day, and nothing said in that verse would have raised a single objection from any of his peers and contemporaries because that passage reflects 100% Targum teachings that were commonly dispensed in the synagogues of his day.

The Targums taught that God's word, the Memra', reigns supreme upon The Almighty's throne.

T. Deuteronomy 4:7…For what people so great, to whom the Lord is so high in the Name of the Word of the Lord? But the custom of (other) nations is to carry their gods upon their shoulders, that they may seem to be nigh them; but they cannot hear with their ears, (be they nigh or) be they afar off; but the Word of the Lord sits upon His throne high and lifted up, and hears our prayer what time we pray before Him and make our petitions. (Targum Jonathan)

According to the Targums, Jacob, an important progenitor of the people of Israel, worshipped the Memra' as his God.

T. Genesis 28:20-21…And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If the Word of Yhvh will be my support, and will keep me in the way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the Word of Yhvh be my God. (Targum Onkelos)

God's Word: A Sentient Being

Whenever the Targum orators came to passages where Yhvh is anthropomorphic (visible to humans) or where two or more Yhvhs are indicated by the text, the Turgemen often substituted "The Word of the Lord" for one of the Yhvhs.

For example in Gen. 19:23-24 the Tanakh has:

● As the sun rose upon the earth and Lot entered Zoar, Yhvh rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah sulfurous fire from Yhvh out of heaven. (WHV)

The Hebrew grammar here indicates that one Yhvh rained fire from another Yhvh who was up in heaven. The Targum substitutes "The Word of Yhvh" for the first of the two Yhvhs as follows:

T. And the Word of Yhvh caused to descend upon the peoples of Sodom and Gomorrah, brimstone and fire from the Yhvh in heaven. (Targum Jonathan)

Targumists paraphrased the text of Exodus 20:1 by substituting "the Word of Yhvh" in place of Yhvh.

T. And the Word of the Lord spoke all the excellency of these words saying (Jerusalem Targum)

It was, according to another Targum, the Word of Yhvh whom Abraham trusted in:

T. Genesis 15:6...And Abraham trusted in the Word of Yhvh, and He counted it to him for righteousness. (Targum Onkelos)

Moreover Abraham prayed in the name of the Word of Yhvh:

T. Genesis 22:14...And Abraham worshipped and prayed in the name of the Word of Yhvh, and said, "You are Yhvh who does see, but You cannot be seen." (Jerusalem Targum)

Although Abraham prayed in the name of the Word of Yhvh, his prayer was meant for the other one, the the untouchable Yhvh who cannot be seen. So the first Yhvh, the Memra', acted as a mediator between Abraham and the True God.

The Memra' has a significant role in Abraham's covenant.

T. Genesis 17:7...And I will establish my covenant between My Word and between you (Targum Onkelos)

T. Exodus 12:42... Night second; when the Word of the Lord was revealed unto Abraham between the divided parts; when Abraham was a son of a hundred years, and Sarah was a daughter of ninety years, (Targum Jerusalem)

According to another Targum, The Word of Yhvh created Man not only in the image of God, but also in the likeness of God's word.

T. Genesis 1:27...And the Word of the Lord created man in His likeness, in the likeness of the presence of the Lord He created him, the male and his yoke-fellow He created them. (Jerusalem Targum)

The Memra' conversed with Moses and commissioned him to lead Israel to freedom.

T. Exodus 3:14...And the Word of Yhvh said to Moses: "I am He who said unto the world 'Be!' and it was: and who in the future shall say to it 'Be!' and it shall be." And He said: "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: 'I Am' has sent me to you." (Jerusalem Targum)

A partial Targum also expresses that the Word of Yhvh was the Creator.

T. Exodus 12:42...The first night, when the Word of Yhvh was revealed to the world in order to create it, the world was desolate and void, and darkness spread over the face of the abyss and the Word of the Lord was bright and illuminating and He called it the first night. (Fragmentary Targum)

The Memra' as Creator can also be seen in the Tanakh.

● Psalm 33:6...By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, by the breath of His mouth, all their host. (1985 JPS Tanakh)

Noah's covenant was between the Memra' and all mankind.

T. Genesis 9:17...And Yhvh said to Noah, "This is the token of the covenant which I have established between My Word and between all flesh that is upon the earth. (Targum Onkelos)

The Memra' is Israel's savior.

T. Isaiah 45:17, 25...But Israel shall be saved by the Word of Yhvh with an everlasting salvation. By the Word of Yhvh shall all the seed of Israel be justified. (Targum Jonathan)

T. Hosea 1:7...But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and I will save them by the Word of Yhvh, their God. (Targum Jonathan)

According to the New Testament, Y'shua is a human manifestation of the Memra'. Somehow (and who can really understand this?) the Memra' became a Jewish human being who, though coming from God, and must be spoken to as God, and prayed to as God, and worshipped as God, and served as God, is itself subject to the real God.

● John 1:14...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. (NKJ)

● John 6:38...For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. (NIV)

● 1John 1:1-3...That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word Of Life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Y'shua the Messiah. (WHV)



Related References

Answering Jewish Objections To Jesus
by Michael L. Brown
Volume 1 ISBN 0-8010-6063-X
Volume 2 ISBN 0-8010-6334-5
Volume 3 ISBN 0-8010-6423-6
An Addendum from http://cfbac.org/memra.htm br br... (show quote)


I was blessed. Thank you!

| Reply
Oct 1, 2019 17:59:57   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Hi bahmer,

I was less than clear in what I included and in what I omitted from that post. There was much more information, but couldn't post it all.

I've always read that Aramaic is the parent language to both Hebrew and Arabic. When the Jewish people were taken to Babylon where Aramaic was spoken, their younger generation grew up speaking Aramaic, forgetting or never learning their Hebrew.

This is what I understand it to mean, which, I think, is basically what you are saying:

When they translated their Hebrew Scriptures into Aramaic, in order that the young people would continue to learn of their God and their history, in the language they now used, it translated into an increased understanding of their God, as the "Word" of God was shown to be not just language, but another personality, operating from inside God, but functioning as another being, and yet God... they began to understand the Trinity or Triune God that He reveals Himself to be.

The following is by Paul Younan, a native Aramaic speaker from Lebanon, Deacon of The Church of the East in Chicago.

"History of Aramaic:

Aramaic is the ancient language of the Semitic family group, which includes the Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Arameans, Hebrews, and Arabs. A large part of the Hebrew and Arabic languages are borrowed from Aramaic, including the Alphabet.

The modern Hebrew (square) script is called "Ashuri", "Ashuri" is the Hebrew name for Assyrian, the name being used to signify the ancestor of the Assyrians, Ashur the son of Shem, the son of Noah (Genesis 10:22).

Aramaic is quoted in the first book of the Bible, Berisheth (Genesis) in Chapter 31:47. Portions of the Old Testament are penned originally in Aramaic, including Daniel chapter 2:4 thru Chapter 7.

The Peshitta (Syriac/Eastern Aramaic) version of the Old Testament was taken over by all the Churches in the East, which used, and still use Aramaic, as far as India, and formerly in Turkestan and China. The Peshitta Tenakh was completed during Apostolic times with the writings of the New Testament.

There is a Monument commemorating the arrival of Christianity in China, in a black, sub-granular limestone in the Hsian-Fu Monument; beside celebrating the arrival of Christianity in China in 635 A.D., the inscriptions consist of one thousand nine hundred Chinese characters and about fifty Aramaic words (in the Estrangela script), containing some seventy names of Assyrian missionaries in rows on the narrow sides of the stone with the corresponding Chinese characters denoting the Chinese synonyms or phonetics for the Assyrian names. Hsian-Fu, Shanhsi Province, China. Current Location: Pei-lin, China."

I realize few people are interested, but have always found the history of God's ability to protect and use His Word of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to bless mankind the most fascinating information that is knowable.

bahmer wrote:
Amen and Amen thank you for that Zemirah that was informative and also somewhat confusing as well. But I do see that what you have posted shows that there is God the Father and God the Son or the word and God the Holy Spirit and they were all present throughout the Bible as we know it. Thanks again for this.
Amen and Amen thank you for that Zemirah that was ... (show quote)

| Reply
Oct 1, 2019 18:03:31   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
As was I, Peewee, as was I.


Peewee wrote:
I was blessed. Thank you!

| Reply
Oct 1, 2019 18:11:02   #
bahmer
 
Zemirah wrote:
Hi bahmer,

I was less than clear in what I included and in what I omitted from that post. There was much more information, but couldn't post it all.

I've always read that Aramaic is the parent language to both Hebrew and Arabic. When the Jewish people were taken to Babylon where Aramaic was spoken, their younger generation grew up speaking Aramaic, forgetting or never learning their Hebrew.

This is what I understand it to mean, which, I think, is basically what you are saying:

When they translated their Hebrew Scriptures into Aramaic, in order that the young people would continue to learn of their God and their history, in the language they now used, it translated into an increased understanding of their God, as the "Word" of God was shown to be not just language, but another personality, operating from inside God, but functioning as another being, and yet God... they began to understand the Trinity or Triune God that He reveals Himself to be.

The following is by Paul Younan, a native Aramaic speaker from Lebanon, Deacon of The Church of the East in Chicago.

"History of Aramaic:

Aramaic is the ancient language of the Semitic family group, which includes the Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Arameans, Hebrews, and Arabs. A large part of the Hebrew and Arabic languages are borrowed from Aramaic, including the Alphabet.

The modern Hebrew (square) script is called "Ashuri", "Ashuri" is the Hebrew name for Assyrian, the name being used to signify the ancestor of the Assyrians, Ashur the son of Shem, the son of Noah (Genesis 10:22).

Aramaic is quoted in the first book of the Bible, Berisheth (Genesis) in Chapter 31:47. Portions of the Old Testament are penned originally in Aramaic, including Daniel chapter 2:4 thru Chapter 7.

The Peshitta (Syriac/Eastern Aramaic) version of the Old Testament was taken over by all the Churches in the East, which used, and still use Aramaic, as far as India, and formerly in Turkestan and China. The Peshitta Tenakh was completed during Apostolic times with the writings of the New Testament.

There is a Monument commemorating the arrival of Christianity in China, in a black, sub-granular limestone in the Hsian-Fu Monument; beside celebrating the arrival of Christianity in China in 635 A.D., the inscriptions consist of one thousand nine hundred Chinese characters and about fifty Aramaic words (in the Estrangela script), containing some seventy names of Assyrian missionaries in rows on the narrow sides of the stone with the corresponding Chinese characters denoting the Chinese synonyms or phonetics for the Assyrian names. Hsian-Fu, Shanhsi Province, China. Current Location: Pei-lin, China."

I realize few people are interested, but have always found the history of God's ability to protect and use His Word of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to bless mankind the most fascinating information that is knowable.
Hi bahmer, br br I was less than clear in what I ... (show quote)


Have you heard of Walid Shoebat? I was listening to some of his teachings concerning the Muslims and his wife after they were married told him to go out and by a bible so that he would better know what he was talking about. Wallid knew and or knows Aramaic the way that he was describing certain things in the scriptures led me to believe that the bible that he purchased must have been written in Aramaic especially when he was describing the Mahdi in the old testament and the symbols that were described he knew immediately who and what the Mahdi was and who he was. He is quite an interesting individual to listen to and you can listen to his take on prophecy from the Old Testament forward. So it appears that the Muslim religion I.E. Islam also studies in Aramaic quite the consequence isn't it. Thanks again for this bible study Zemirah.

| Reply
Oct 1, 2019 19:17:56   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
I used to receive Walid Shoebat's newsletter daily in my email, but have discontinued it at some point, and still receive dozens of newsletters, especially from Israel, from Jihad Watch, and from Evangelical ministries, Biblical Prophecy, etc., and rarely have time to read more than headlines from most of them.

Also receive the Los Angeles Times, New York Post, Washington Times, Washington Post, etc., not because I like their politics, but to know what the latest form of insanity has devolved into.

Aramaic was spoken throughout the Middle East for many centuries, possibly two thousand years before Hebrew, although Hebrew is 4,000 years old and then later, Arabic were ever created and developed into spoken and written languages.

The 1st Qur'ans were written in Aramaic because Arabic was not yet a written language, even in the 7th century A.D.. Arabic was the last and youngest of the Semitic languages to be finished, not because the Arabs weren't intelligent, but possibly because of their Bedouin lifestyle. Most did not carry pen and paper with them. They developed their memories instead.

It is said that many Arabs could recite their tribal ancestry back to Ismail (Arabic spelling).


bahmer wrote:
Have you heard of Walid Shoebat? I was listening to some of his teachings concerning the Muslims and his wife after they were married told him to go out and by a bible so that he would better know what he was talking about. Wallid knew and or knows Aramaic the way that he was describing certain things in the scriptures led me to believe that the bible that he purchased must have been written in Aramaic especially when he was describing the Mahdi in the old testament and the symbols that were described he knew immediately who and what the Mahdi was and who he was. He is quite an interesting individual to listen to and you can listen to his take on prophecy from the Old Testament forward. So it appears that the Muslim religion I.E. Islam also studies in Aramaic quite the consequence isn't it. Thanks again for this bible study Zemirah.
Have you heard of Walid Shoebat? I was listening t... (show quote)

| Reply
Oct 1, 2019 22:15:11   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Zemirah wrote:
Hi bahmer,

I was less than clear in what I included and in what I omitted from that post. There was much more information, but couldn't post it all.

I've always read that Aramaic is the parent language to both Hebrew and Arabic. When the Jewish people were taken to Babylon where Aramaic was spoken, their younger generation grew up speaking Aramaic, forgetting or never learning their Hebrew.

This is what I understand it to mean, which, I think, is basically what you are saying:

When they translated their Hebrew Scriptures into Aramaic, in order that the young people would continue to learn of their God and their history, in the language they now used, it translated into an increased understanding of their God, as the "Word" of God was shown to be not just language, but another personality, operating from inside God, but functioning as another being, and yet God... they began to understand the Trinity or Triune God that He reveals Himself to be.

The following is by Paul Younan, a native Aramaic speaker from Lebanon, Deacon of The Church of the East in Chicago.

"History of Aramaic:

Aramaic is the ancient language of the Semitic family group, which includes the Assyrians, Babylonians, Chaldeans, Arameans, Hebrews, and Arabs. A large part of the Hebrew and Arabic languages are borrowed from Aramaic, including the Alphabet.

The modern Hebrew (square) script is called "Ashuri", "Ashuri" is the Hebrew name for Assyrian, the name being used to signify the ancestor of the Assyrians, Ashur the son of Shem, the son of Noah (Genesis 10:22).

Aramaic is quoted in the first book of the Bible, Berisheth (Genesis) in Chapter 31:47. Portions of the Old Testament are penned originally in Aramaic, including Daniel chapter 2:4 thru Chapter 7.

The Peshitta (Syriac/Eastern Aramaic) version of the Old Testament was taken over by all the Churches in the East, which used, and still use Aramaic, as far as India, and formerly in Turkestan and China. The Peshitta Tenakh was completed during Apostolic times with the writings of the New Testament.

There is a Monument commemorating the arrival of Christianity in China, in a black, sub-granular limestone in the Hsian-Fu Monument; beside celebrating the arrival of Christianity in China in 635 A.D., the inscriptions consist of one thousand nine hundred Chinese characters and about fifty Aramaic words (in the Estrangela script), containing some seventy names of Assyrian missionaries in rows on the narrow sides of the stone with the corresponding Chinese characters denoting the Chinese synonyms or phonetics for the Assyrian names. Hsian-Fu, Shanhsi Province, China. Current Location: Pei-lin, China."

I realize few people are interested, but have always found the history of God's ability to protect and use His Word of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to bless mankind the most fascinating information that is knowable.
Hi bahmer, br br I was less than clear in what I ... (show quote)


I've heard about the monument in China but never the facts you've highlighted. I've often wondered why Jesus told the disciples not to go toward Asia but to the house of Israel first. I just figured it had a Revelation reason. The disciples went from India to Spain and as far north as Scotland. Jews were already spread out even then and Josephus is just one example. The seven churches are another example. But they did hear the word later from Assyrian disciples. They were ahead of Marco Polo by about 600 years. Steve McQueen wanted people dead or alive, Satan wants them dead, especially the Jewish people. Nothing is new under the Sun. I may start calling you a rabbi (teacher).

| Reply
Oct 1, 2019 22:38:48   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
I am no more a teacher than are you.

I am a lover of truth, historical, factual and spiritual truth, in all circumstances, and of it's steadfast unfailing source, the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God.

How did Steve McQueen slip into this conversation? I'm a fan, but had no idea the man had his theology on record...

Surely, Jesus, being God, knew who would or would not be receptive to the Gospel in China, and elsewhere, and the timing, when they would be receptive.


Peewee wrote:
I've heard about the monument in China but never the facts you've highlighted. I've often wondered why Jesus told the disciples not to go toward Asia but to the house of Israel first. I just figured it had a Revelation reason. The disciples went from India to Spain and as far north as Scotland. Jews were already spread out even then and Josephus is just one example. The seven churches are another example. But they did hear the word later from Assyrian disciples. They were ahead of Marco Polo by about 600 years. Steve McQueen wanted people dead or alive, Satan wants them dead, especially the Jewish people. Nothing is new under the Sun. I may start calling you a rabbi (teacher).
I've heard about the monument in China but never t... (show quote)

| Reply
Oct 2, 2019 00:09:12   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Zemirah wrote:
I am no more a teacher than are you.

I am a lover of truth, historical, factual and spiritual truth, in all circumstances, and of it's steadfast unfailing source, the Holy Spirit inspired Word of God.

How did Steve McQueen slip into this conversation? I'm a fan, but had no idea the man had his theology on record...

Surely, Jesus, being God, knew who would or would not be receptive to the Gospel in China, and elsewhere, and the timing, when they would be receptive.
I am no more a teacher than are you. br br I am a... (show quote)


True, but you just say it better in my opinion. It's a joy working the field with you. I always slip a western connection into a conversation when I can. What could be better than riding in a posse with Jesus to meet out justice to the bad guys? We both share the gospel just in different ways. Vengeance belongs to God and He has delegated it to Jesus and I hope to ride with Him one day. After biting my tongue most of my life I'd love to have permission to cut loose on the mockers and blasphemers. I love my quarter horses but can you imagine riding one of those white steeds with the King of Kings? Awesome is the only word that comes close. You know the Lord loves all His children, even the quirky ones like me. He knows I hate evil and I know He died a very painful death for me. I can never make that up to Him. But I would dearly love to be with Him when He again speaks one word and ends the evildoers once and for all time. I don't deserve a front-row seat upon a white steed but I'd love to have one all the same. He doesn't need my help but I hope He allows me to participate. I love my meek and mild Jesus but I'm also looking forward to seeing my take no prisoners conquering Jesus. The only one who is worthy to open the scrolls and return us to Eden.

| Reply
Oct 2, 2019 00:51:52   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Having fulfilled His role as the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world, Jesus will now return as the Lion of the kingly tribe of Judah, which is David's tribe.

I too hope to ride in white linen, mounted on one of those magnificent white steeds, which I presume are Arabian horses, as they are the best for speed and stamina, however, I do hope, rather than bareback, they have saddles; otherwise, without supernatural intervention, I will slide right off...

Having never been accused of biting my tongue, I can sympathize, but with little genuine cognitive empathy, having never walked in your moccasins, - uh, boots.

We will be spectators, as He will destroy the enemy, that entire vast army that has gathered from all the nations, with the sword from His mouth. (Revelation 19:15, 21).

All those who have lived to war against Almighty God will be vanquished in one fell swoop.

All those who have, in faith, been made aware of our sins and repented, having requested and received His unmerited grace, will now praise our Triune God forever and ever.

Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.



Peewee wrote:
True, but you just say it better in my opinion. It's a joy working the field with you. I always slip a western connection into a conversation when I can. What could be better than riding in a posse with Jesus to meet out justice to the bad guys? We both share the gospel just in different ways. Vengeance belongs to God and He has delegated it to Jesus and I hope to ride with Him one day. After biting my tongue most of my life I'd love to have permission to cut loose on the mockers and blasphemers. I love my quarter horses but can you imagine riding one of those white steeds with the King of Kings? Awesome is the only word that comes close. You know the Lord loves all His children, even the quirky ones like me. He knows I hate evil and I know He died a very painful death for me. I can never make that up to Him. But I would dearly love to be with Him when He again speaks one word and ends the evildoers once and for all time. I don't deserve a front-row seat upon a white steed but I'd love to have one all the same. He doesn't need my help but I hope He allows me to participate. I love my meek and mild Jesus but I'm also looking forward to seeing my take no prisoners conquering Jesus. The only one who is worthy to open the scrolls and return us to Eden.
True, but you just say it better in my opinion. It... (show quote)

| Reply
Oct 2, 2019 04:04:22   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Zemirah wrote:
Having fulfilled His role as the Lamb who takes away the sins of the world, Jesus will now return as the Lion of the kingly tribe of Judah, which is David's tribe.

I too hope to ride in white linen, mounted on one of those magnificent white steeds, which I presume are Arabian horses, as they are the best for speed and stamina, however, I do hope, rather than bareback, they have saddles; otherwise, without supernatural intervention, I will slide right off...

Having never been accused of biting my tongue, I can sympathize, but with little genuine cognitive empathy, having never walked in your moccasins, - uh, boots.

We will be spectators, as He will destroy the enemy, that entire vast army that has gathered from all the nations, with the sword from His mouth. (Revelation 19:15, 21).

All those who have lived to war against Almighty God will be vanquished in one fell swoop.

All those who have, in faith, been made aware of our sins and repented, having requested and received His unmerited grace, will now praise our Triune God forever and ever.

Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Having fulfilled His role as the Lamb who takes aw... (show quote)


Aha, that's what I said but you said it better. I'm sure there will be saddles with stirrups plus we'll all be in peak physical condition again with 20-20 vision, teeth, and restored missing limbs. You're reflexes and balance will be just fine. No plates or screws to hold anything together. He promises the restoration of all things. Even my appendix will be restored. Being able to carry a tune will be a really nice change. Everyone will be grateful for that.

| Reply
Oct 2, 2019 06:40:44   #
Rose42
 
Very interesting Zemirah. I had not heard of this before. I will be reading it again.

| Reply
Oct 2, 2019 09:13:50   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
http://oneinmessiah.net/

The Teachings of The Targums

THE MEMRA, THE WORD OF THE LORD


Other Targum (Aramaic) verses contrasted with the Hebrew of the Tanakh (Old Testament):

Genesis 1:27 - God created man.

Targum - The Word of the Lord created man.

---------------

Genesis 6:6-7 - And it repented the Lord that He made man on the earth.

Targum - And it repented the Lord through His word that He made man on the earth.

---------------

Genesis 9:12 - And God said, "This sign that I set for the covenant between me and you."

Targum - And the Lord said, "This is the sign that I set for covenant between my Word and you."

---------------

Genesis 15:6 - And Abraham believed in the Lord.

Targum - And Abraham believed in the Word of the Lord.

--------------

Genesis 20:3 - And God came to Abimelech.

Targum - And the Word from before the Lord came to Abimelech.

--------------

Genesis 31: 49 - May the Lord keep watch between you and me.

Targum - May the Word of the Lord keep watch between you and me.

---------------

Exodus 14:31 - And they believed in the Lord.

Targum - And they believed in the Word of the LORD.

---------------

Exodus 20: 1- And the Lord spoke all these words.

Targum - And the Word of the Lord spoke all these words.

--------------

Exodus 25:22 - And I will meet with you there.

Targum - And I will appoint my Word for you there.

--------------

Leviticus 26:9- And I will turn to you.

Targum - And I will turn through my Word to do good to you.

--------------

Numbers 10:35 - Rise up, O Lord!

Targum - Rise up, O Word of the Lord!

---------------

Numbers 11:23 - Is the hand of the Lord shortened?

Targum - Is the Word of the Lord detained?

---------------

Deuteronomy 1:30 - The Lord your God who goes before you, He Himself will fight for you.

Targum - The Lord your God who leads before you, His Word will fight for you.

---------------

Deuteronomy 18:19 - I myself will require it of him.

Targum - My Word will require it of him.

---------------

Deuteronomy 31:3 - The Lord your God will pass before you.

Targum - The Lord your God, His Word will pass before you.

---------------

Joshua 1:5 - As I was with Moses I will be with you.

Targum - As my Word was in support of Moses, so my Word will be in your support.

--------------

Judges 11:10 - The Lord will be witness between us.

Targum - The Word of the Lord will be witness between us.

--------------

Isaiah 45:17 - Israel will be saved by the Lord.

Targum - Israel will be saved by the Word of the Lord.

------------------------------

| Reply
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 next>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
OnePoliticalPlaza.com - Forum
Copyright 2012-2020 IDF International Technologies, Inc.