One Political Plaza - Home of politics
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main
Do You Think Or Do You Believe?
Page <<first <prev 4 of 7 next> last>>
Sep 11, 2019 22:39:37   #
debeda
 
Navigator wrote:
This is an easy one: Democrats believe, Republicans think and supporters of DJT know.


PERFECT

Reply
Sep 11, 2019 22:40:30   #
debeda
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Many of what you label as beliefs are simple opinions. Most opinions do not make a difference in our daily life, we form opinions based on plausibility. It is my opinion that US put men on the moon...it is plausible. On the contrast, a belief is a mental notions that are required for or deemed necessary for life choices.

You gave us your opinion of Conservative Republicans and in your opinion we are inflexible. It should come as no surprise that we see Progressive Liberal Democrats as rather dimwitted because they refuse to recognize the sterile facts of economics. We see complaining about the President is self defeating and makes the complainer nothing more than an annoying squeaky wheel. It seems that all complainers do is copy and paste what is written in the news. No viable solutions are ever presented, just a steady stream of repeating the opinions of your favorite talking head.
Many of what you label as beliefs are simple opini... (show quote)



Reply
Sep 12, 2019 00:45:36   #
rumitoid
 
debeda wrote:


Jesus said, "Believe on me": what did he mean? Belief is not something stored in the brain, like dogma or theology or philosophy. It is, in my opinion, a base and direction for action. The goal: to become, not preach. Say, what did Jesus want us to become? "...as little children..." If it happens that we achieve this goal or any other goal, belief is no longer necessary having become fact.

To think is prelude to belief which is prelude to fact. I think I can become a rock star is a universe away from believing that I can, no matter how my logic and reason may assure me. It is still ephemeral, lacking the urge and energy to become a rock star. (Some may want to be put hope in there yet I do not see it as relevant.) So if I actually become a rock star, what do I do with the belief? It is useless. I toss it.

For me, when Jesus said, "Believe on me" it was not exactly like holding in our heart or mind that he is lord and savior but becoming as Christ; he was talking about hand. Jesus was to me the epitome of what he spoke of Matthew and his relationship with the Father: a little child.

A system or statement of belief or articles of faith, like many Christians denominations have, is Christ 101. Testimony of Jesus is who are in the world--how we think, say and do--and not door-to-door, street corners, or the pulpit. I am not saying that those are not good or unneeded, but they are not testimonies of Christ, of his saving grace or spirit. What is is how we walk in the world.

Like St. Francis is thought to have said, "Witness for Christ each day, and if necessary use words."

Reply
 
 
Sep 12, 2019 01:34:55   #
woodguru
 
rumitoid wrote:
Jesus said, "Believe on me": what did he mean? Belief is not something stored in the brain, like dogma or theology or philosophy. It is, in my opinion, a base and direction for action. The goal: to become, not preach. Say, what did Jesus want us to become? "...as little children..." If it happens that we achieve this goal or any other goal, belief is no longer necessary having become fact.

To think is prelude to belief which is prelude to fact. I think I can become a rock star is a universe away from believing that I can, no matter how my logic and reason may assure me. It is still ephemeral, lacking the urge and energy to become a rock star. (Some may want to be put hope in there yet I do not see it as relevant.) So if I actually become a rock star, what do I do with the belief? It is useless. I toss it.

For me, when Jesus said, "Believe on me" it was not exactly like holding in our heart or mind that he is lord and savior but becoming as Christ; he was talking about hand. Jesus was to me the epitome of what he spoke of Matthew and his relationship with the Father: a little child.

A system or statement of belief or articles of faith, like many Christians denominations have, is Christ 101. Testimony of Jesus is who are in the world--how we think, say and do--and not door-to-door, street corners, or the pulpit. I am not saying that those are not good or unneeded, but they are not testimonies of Christ, of his saving grace or spirit. That is how we walk in the world.

Like St. Francis is thought to have said, "Witness for Christ each day, and if necessary use words."
Jesus said, "Believe on me": what did he... (show quote)


Beliefs depend on faith, having faith in something and believing in it no matter what facts or common sense may be telling you.

Facts do not care what you believe, they are the last word, reality and the way it is. I'll put the facts up against political beliefs and rhetoric people believe any day.

Reply
Sep 12, 2019 01:44:41   #
rumitoid
 
woodguru wrote:
Beliefs depend on faith, having faith in something and believing in it no matter what facts or common sense may be telling you.

Facts do not care what you believe, they are the last word, reality and the way it is. I'll put the facts up against political beliefs and rhetoric people believe any day.


Sorry, beliefs do not solely depend on faith, for me. Though we may be talking at odds about the same point. You are referencing religious beliefs, I was speaking more broadly. We are probably in agreement, though I have a lot more to say on this topic.

Reply
Sep 12, 2019 01:55:07   #
woodguru
 
rumitoid wrote:
Sorry, beliefs do not solely depend on faith, for me. Though we may be talking at odds about the same point. You are referencing religious beliefs, I was speaking more broadly. We are probably in agreement, though I have a lot more to say on this topic.


I actually am speaking more about political beliefs. I think you are talking about conclusions not necessarily depending on faith, there is a big difference between beliefs people have come to have and arriving at conclusions. Beliefs are way harder to get people to change based on new information and facts, because they tend to have arrived at their beliefs through conscious decisions to believe something rather than evolve conclusions through new and changing facts.

My example of Barr's report being something you either believe or don't, and those who don't do it based on the facts in the Mueller report that can be read. Those who believe stop right there and nothing else matters. Just because you have come to a conclusion about something does not make it a belief because you use the word wrong. People say "I believe this to be true", when this is the conclusion they have come to.

Reply
Sep 12, 2019 04:49:04   #
JoyV
 
permafrost wrote:
Much of the should be legislation is sitting on McConnell desk, waiting for the end of time for getting anything done. the same as during the President Obama terms.. nothing but obstruction.. do not allow any thing by the Democrats to be passed..


Didn't the Democrats have control of both houses during Obama's 1st term?

Reply
 
 
Sep 12, 2019 05:03:52   #
JoyV
 
woodguru wrote:
Actually you are wrong and have that backwards. MSM sources as a rule constantly display and show the documents they are reporting on to where you can see indictments and court documents that are what they are and can't be misrepresented, while FOX as a rule has nothing but their people like Hannity showing nothing but representing lies without proofs. They use words like "we all know", "as you know", "everyone knows", and their viewers have total faith that what they heard was the t***h without ever seeing documents. In fact many if offered the chance to read posted documents will say those are just f**e.

I could post sections of the Mueller report and many of the hardest line believers would refuse to read the proof, but would label the post as lies.

Anytime you show me original documents to support a position I will believe them.
Actually you are wrong and have that backwards. MS... (show quote)


Sorry but usually when I hear from one of the left wing outlets that a certain document has certain information, I Google the document itself and usually find what they said was in it is either the opposite, is wildly exaggerated, or the way they worded it is very misleading. You mentioned the Mueller report. I challenge you to read it yourself. None of the mainstream news that I am aware of said the report stated No evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia was found. That is what is in the report.

I have read both part 1 and part 2 of the Mueller report.

I have also found Fox to have incorrect facts from time to time, and exaggerations. But not stating the opposite of what the facts are.

Nor have I heard statements such as "everyone knows". If I am wrong, please provide a transcript or link to such incidents.

Reply
Sep 12, 2019 05:08:08   #
rumitoid
 
woodguru wrote:
I actually am speaking more about political beliefs. I think you are talking about conclusions not necessarily depending on faith, there is a big difference between beliefs people have come to have and arriving at conclusions. Beliefs are way harder to get people to change based on new information and facts, because they tend to have arrived at their beliefs through conscious decisions to believe something rather than evolve conclusions through new and changing facts.

My example of Barr's report being something you either believe or don't, and those who don't do it based on the facts in the Mueller report that can be read. Those who believe stop right there and nothing else matters. Just because you have come to a conclusion about something does not make it a belief because you use the word wrong. People say "I believe this to be true", when this is the conclusion they have come to.
I actually am speaking more about political belief... (show quote)


"Beliefs are way harder to get people to change based on new information:" because it is personal, about them. This is who I am.

Reply
Sep 12, 2019 05:12:05   #
JoyV
 
woodguru wrote:
In that mode perhaps Barr's conclusions about the Mueller report were opinions he happened to be very much wrong about, in fact he had intentionally misrepresented what Mueller was saying? Anyone who has stopped at what Barr reported in four pages is believing Barr and refusing to use their intellect to go over real aspects of the Mueller report.

Those talking heads you refer to? I don't believe any of them unless they are putting the actual documents and quotes and sources up to see so that I can get an idea of context and where it came from.

I don't need to see mainstream media beating up the Trump economy to know which way it is headed by personal experience and what I can see when I look around. I drive around and I am seeing more for sale signs on houses than I've seen in eight years, I get gas and prices are up from three years ago, never a good sign because people I know feel that, I look at a popular restaurant that should be packed at 6:00 on a Thursday and it's damn near empty... these are the signs that I can look around me and see.

So when a right wing source or the president says the economy is great I know...not believe, I know they are full of crap. A believer hears that and believes it and believes all the negative being covered in the mainstream is the f**e news, the economy is booming because Trump and FOX says so.
In that mode perhaps Barr's conclusions about the ... (show quote)

So all the documentation from our own government and world and foreign governments are just cobbled together lies? You KNOW what the t***h is and won't believe any government, or non government agencies which say otherwise. Perhaps your community is one which is not benefitting as most of the country is. Or perhaps you live in one of the states which have been "compensating " for the tax cuts and increased economy by adding higher taxes and imposing lots of state regulations. Under such conditions, the economic improvements are negated.

Reply
Sep 12, 2019 05:26:49   #
rumitoid
 
JoyV wrote:
Sorry but usually when I hear from one of the left wing outlets that a certain document has certain information, I Google the document itself and usually find what they said was in it is either the opposite, is wildly exaggerated, or the way they worded it is very misleading. You mentioned the Mueller report. I challenge you to read it yourself. None of the mainstream news that I am aware of said the report stated No evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia was found. That is what is in the report.

I have read both part 1 and part 2 of the Mueller report.

I have also found Fox to have incorrect facts from time to time, and exaggerations. But not stating the opposite of what the facts are.

Nor have I heard statements such as "everyone knows". If I am wrong, please provide a transcript or link to such incidents.
Sorry but usually when I hear from one of the left... (show quote)


If you want to make a bleeding point about the Left falsely giving the contents of a site, show it or shut the hell up. Really tired of you guys making wild accusations without showing cause. But your base loves the unprovable, as long as it attacks the Left. Bye!

Reply
 
 
Sep 12, 2019 05:27:05   #
JoyV
 
roy wrote:
Yea alot of people are working at 1989 wages,how the hell is that a boom,


Just a bit of hyperbole isn't it. 1989 wages???

But which is better. Losing a job because the minimum wage was higher than the small business could pay, or getting only a small increase in minimum wage?

But look at the majority of new hiring from manufacturing companies. These are not minimum wage jobs! Manufacturing jobs also come with benefits. Government "created " jobs are almost always minimum wage with no benefits.

Now I am a guide and service dog trainer. In 1999 I charged $500 per month to train a guide dog. By 2014 my price had been cut in half and I had to stop training because what I took in fell far short of my expenses. Now I am charging $650 per month and am actually making a profit. Nor is this from any particular region of the country. I get students from all regions of the USA, and sometimes from outside the country. The farthest away was for someone living in South Africa. He combined his travel to the USA for the team training which is needed before handing the dog over, which taking courses at the UofA.

Reply
Sep 12, 2019 05:28:12   #
rumitoid
 
JoyV wrote:
So all the documentation from our own government and world and foreign governments are just cobbled together lies? You KNOW what the t***h is and won't believe any government, or non government agencies which say otherwise. Perhaps your community is one which is not benefitting as most of the country is. Or perhaps you live in one of the states which have been "compensating " for the tax cuts and increased economy by adding higher taxes and imposing lots of state regulations. Under such conditions, the economic improvements are negated.
So all the documentation from our own government a... (show quote)


Again, if you say they aren't, bloody prove it. Jeez Louise, be mature.

Reply
Sep 12, 2019 05:32:32   #
JoyV
 
woodguru wrote:
I actually am speaking more about political beliefs. I think you are talking about conclusions not necessarily depending on faith, there is a big difference between beliefs people have come to have and arriving at conclusions. Beliefs are way harder to get people to change based on new information and facts, because they tend to have arrived at their beliefs through conscious decisions to believe something rather than evolve conclusions through new and changing facts.

My example of Barr's report being something you either believe or don't, and those who don't do it based on the facts in the Mueller report that can be read. Those who believe stop right there and nothing else matters. Just because you have come to a conclusion about something does not make it a belief because you use the word wrong. People say "I believe this to be true", when this is the conclusion they have come to.
I actually am speaking more about political belief... (show quote)


So when you read the Mueller report and it says basically the same facts as the Barr summary, except the tone is not so strong, will you accept what you read or decide Mueller and his whole team of Trump h**ers are lying to protect Trump?

Read the report yourself!

Reply
Sep 12, 2019 05:44:49   #
JoyV
 
rumitoid wrote:
If you want to make a bleeding point about the Left falsely giving the contents of a site, show it or shut the hell up. Really tired of you guys making wild accusations without showing cause. But your base loves the unprovable, as long as it attacks the Left. Bye!


It will take a long post to do so. Do you also want me to include inaccurate news stories on the right? As I've written, I've seen inaccurate stories from both left and right.

But I have often posted documentation of what is in the documents the news is about, and with the Mueller report, I've included page numbers and sometimes listed not only the page but the paragraph. I've posted statements and charts from DHS and CBP regarding border issues. Such as during 2017 and much of 2018 CNN, Wapo, NYT, and several others were saying illegal border crossings were down despite the figures on the DHS and CBP sites recording just the opposite. It wasn't until the number of apprehension increased beyond 100,000 per month that they stopped saying illegal border crossings were down. During the same time and into 2019, they kept saying there WAS NO humanitarian crisis at the border. Then they reversed and began talking about a humanitarian crisis at the border. These are just 2 examples.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 4 of 7 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main
OnePoliticalPlaza.com - Forum
Copyright 2012-2024 IDF International Technologies, Inc.