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Aug 22, 2019 18:24:14   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
A pretty easy to understand piece from the Clarion Project, yet we still argue about it. Odd, I studied economics in college and was in touch with a few of the top economists until I started getting the sky is falling letters non-stop for years. The sky is still there.

Why Extremism Isn’t About Economics

Is extremism really about economics? We have all heard the argument that people turn to extremism because of poverty. Yet is this theory substantiated?

If you want to understand what an ideology is about, spending at least some time reading what they say about themselves is key.

So when you spend any length of time reading extremist propaganda, either Islamist or neo-N**ism, one of the first things you notice is how little they talk about economics.

This is even though many extremists come from less well-off sections of society. Of course, many jihadis – particularly those from Europe who joined the ranks of ISIS — passed through some of the country’s best universities and had bright futures ahead of them.

One University in particular, London’s prestigious Westminster University, saw seven students become jihadis for ISIS. Others who came had fewer prospects.

A GLOBOSEC report analyzing 197 jihadis arrested in 2017 and 2018 found that 40 percent were unemployed at the time of their arrest, death or expulsion.

Some joined jihadism as the next logical step in a progression of subversive violent behavior. “In many European countries, the majority of jihadist foreign fighters are former criminals,” a report by the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political Violence titled Criminal Pasts, Terrorist Futures concluded.

Yet economic opportunity does not seem to be why they chose to wage war against the West.

Islamist extremists are far more likely to talk about “humiliation,” the dignity of the Muslim people, social exclusion and how their way of life is under threat.

Similarly, neo-N**is and w***e s*********ts are also not likely to cite economics. Instead, they talk about degeneracy, the risk posed to white culture by mass immigration and how their way of life is under threat.

Former White Nationalist and founder of the non-profit group Life After H**e Christopher Picciolini described his motives for becoming a white nationalist as being rooted in acceptance and belonging, rather than an ability to pay bills.

“I felt a sort of energy flow through me that I had never felt before,” he told NPR about his joining the movement, “as if I was a part of something greater than myself.”

What both of these attitudes have in common is they are rooted in emotions, specifically fear and anger, which were connected to social exclusion, alienation and worry over power.

“Critically, unemployment or poverty alone is not the only push factor inciting violence and extremism,” the UN Development Program’s 2016 Preventing Violent Extremism report noted.

“Perceptions of injustice, human-rights violations, social-political exclusion, widespread corruption or sustained mistreatment of certain groups, are also considered important push factors,” the report stated.

This may surprise you. Some commentators like to paint terrorism as a violent response to economic marginalization. On one level, it is true that economics has something to do with it: Extremism is a multifaceted creature with many contributory causes. Extensive analysis of w***e s*********t attitudes in Europe found that support for nationalists grew during economic recessions. However that’s not the whole story.

Consider this finding:

“In his 2003 statistical analysis of the success of eight extreme eight parties in Western Europe between 1970 and 2000, Matt Golder finds that unemployment has no effect on right-wing populist v**es when the number of immigrants is low: It is the interaction between economic hard times and the presence of immigrants that boosts extremism.”

In other words, it’s not the mere presence of fiscal difficulties that is the problem. Extremism happens when people perceive the existence of an external threat from which the extremists need to protect themselves from.

They believe this protection is going to come from violence and the establishment of an authoritarian and exclusionary state. Meaning, the lack of money makes that message easier to sell, but it isn’t the main message.

The jump to an extremist movement comes when the individual stops believing that the state is legitimate and instead sees the extremist group as a legitimate authority that can authorize violence and mete out justice.

What makes that jump possible is an emotional attachment to the cause.

While it is true that there can be r**ts and even revolutions over economic conditions, we are nowhere near those conditions in Western countries. Most people are not at risk of starvation or queuing for bread and can afford basic necessities.

What people are suffering from is a fragmented and alienating world that frequently fails to offer a sense of belonging, meaning and purpose.

Critically, multi-cultural Western societies have so far failed to offer a convincing enough vision of a national identity that isn’t rooted in ethnic p***e or religious heritage to draw people together as a cohesive whole.

That failure leaves room for exploitative extremist groups peddling h**e to recruit angry young men (and women) in search of meaning.

Any robust counter-extremism policy has to address these emotional and psychological considerations in addition to economics.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Reply
Aug 22, 2019 19:25:28   #
PLT Sarge Loc: Alabama
 
Lt. Rob Polans ret. wrote:
A pretty easy to understand piece from the Clarion Project, yet we still argue about it. Odd, I studied economics in college and was in touch with a few of the top economists until I started getting the sky is falling letters non-stop for years. The sky is still there.

Why Extremism Isn’t About Economics

Is extremism really about economics? We have all heard the argument that people turn to extremism because of poverty. Yet is this theory substantiated?

If you want to understand what an ideology is about, spending at least some time reading what they say about themselves is key.

So when you spend any length of time reading extremist propaganda, either Islamist or neo-N**ism, one of the first things you notice is how little they talk about economics.

This is even though many extremists come from less well-off sections of society. Of course, many jihadis – particularly those from Europe who joined the ranks of ISIS — passed through some of the country’s best universities and had bright futures ahead of them.

One University in particular, London’s prestigious Westminster University, saw seven students become jihadis for ISIS. Others who came had fewer prospects.

A GLOBOSEC report analyzing 197 jihadis arrested in 2017 and 2018 found that 40 percent were unemployed at the time of their arrest, death or expulsion.

Some joined jihadism as the next logical step in a progression of subversive violent behavior. “In many European countries, the majority of jihadist foreign fighters are former criminals,” a report by the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political Violence titled Criminal Pasts, Terrorist Futures concluded.

Yet economic opportunity does not seem to be why they chose to wage war against the West.

Islamist extremists are far more likely to talk about “humiliation,” the dignity of the Muslim people, social exclusion and how their way of life is under threat.

Similarly, neo-N**is and w***e s*********ts are also not likely to cite economics. Instead, they talk about degeneracy, the risk posed to white culture by mass immigration and how their way of life is under threat.

Former White Nationalist and founder of the non-profit group Life After H**e Christopher Picciolini described his motives for becoming a white nationalist as being rooted in acceptance and belonging, rather than an ability to pay bills.

“I felt a sort of energy flow through me that I had never felt before,” he told NPR about his joining the movement, “as if I was a part of something greater than myself.”

What both of these attitudes have in common is they are rooted in emotions, specifically fear and anger, which were connected to social exclusion, alienation and worry over power.

“Critically, unemployment or poverty alone is not the only push factor inciting violence and extremism,” the UN Development Program’s 2016 Preventing Violent Extremism report noted.

“Perceptions of injustice, human-rights violations, social-political exclusion, widespread corruption or sustained mistreatment of certain groups, are also considered important push factors,” the report stated.

This may surprise you. Some commentators like to paint terrorism as a violent response to economic marginalization. On one level, it is true that economics has something to do with it: Extremism is a multifaceted creature with many contributory causes. Extensive analysis of w***e s*********t attitudes in Europe found that support for nationalists grew during economic recessions. However that’s not the whole story.

Consider this finding:

“In his 2003 statistical analysis of the success of eight extreme eight parties in Western Europe between 1970 and 2000, Matt Golder finds that unemployment has no effect on right-wing populist v**es when the number of immigrants is low: It is the interaction between economic hard times and the presence of immigrants that boosts extremism.”

In other words, it’s not the mere presence of fiscal difficulties that is the problem. Extremism happens when people perceive the existence of an external threat from which the extremists need to protect themselves from.

They believe this protection is going to come from violence and the establishment of an authoritarian and exclusionary state. Meaning, the lack of money makes that message easier to sell, but it isn’t the main message.

The jump to an extremist movement comes when the individual stops believing that the state is legitimate and instead sees the extremist group as a legitimate authority that can authorize violence and mete out justice.

What makes that jump possible is an emotional attachment to the cause.

While it is true that there can be r**ts and even revolutions over economic conditions, we are nowhere near those conditions in Western countries. Most people are not at risk of starvation or queuing for bread and can afford basic necessities.

What people are suffering from is a fragmented and alienating world that frequently fails to offer a sense of belonging, meaning and purpose.

Critically, multi-cultural Western societies have so far failed to offer a convincing enough vision of a national identity that isn’t rooted in ethnic p***e or religious heritage to draw people together as a cohesive whole.

That failure leaves room for exploitative extremist groups peddling h**e to recruit angry young men (and women) in search of meaning.

Any robust counter-extremism policy has to address these emotional and psychological considerations in addition to economics.
---------------------------------------------------------------
A pretty easy to understand piece from the Clarion... (show quote)


Very interesting, and logical. Thanks LT

Reply
Aug 22, 2019 19:25:49   #
Carol Kelly
 
Lt. Rob Polans ret. wrote:
A pretty easy to understand piece from the Clarion Project, yet we still argue about it. Odd, I studied economics in college and was in touch with a few of the top economists until I started getting the sky is falling letters non-stop for years. The sky is still there.

Why Extremism Isn’t About Economics

Is extremism really about economics? We have all heard the argument that people turn to extremism because of poverty. Yet is this theory substantiated?

If you want to understand what an ideology is about, spending at least some time reading what they say about themselves is key.

So when you spend any length of time reading extremist propaganda, either Islamist or neo-N**ism, one of the first things you notice is how little they talk about economics.

This is even though many extremists come from less well-off sections of society. Of course, many jihadis – particularly those from Europe who joined the ranks of ISIS — passed through some of the country’s best universities and had bright futures ahead of them.

One University in particular, London’s prestigious Westminster University, saw seven students become jihadis for ISIS. Others who came had fewer prospects.

A GLOBOSEC report analyzing 197 jihadis arrested in 2017 and 2018 found that 40 percent were unemployed at the time of their arrest, death or expulsion.

Some joined jihadism as the next logical step in a progression of subversive violent behavior. “In many European countries, the majority of jihadist foreign fighters are former criminals,” a report by the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political Violence titled Criminal Pasts, Terrorist Futures concluded.

Yet economic opportunity does not seem to be why they chose to wage war against the West.

Islamist extremists are far more likely to talk about “humiliation,” the dignity of the Muslim people, social exclusion and how their way of life is under threat.

Similarly, neo-N**is and w***e s*********ts are also not likely to cite economics. Instead, they talk about degeneracy, the risk posed to white culture by mass immigration and how their way of life is under threat.

Former White Nationalist and founder of the non-profit group Life After H**e Christopher Picciolini described his motives for becoming a white nationalist as being rooted in acceptance and belonging, rather than an ability to pay bills.

“I felt a sort of energy flow through me that I had never felt before,” he told NPR about his joining the movement, “as if I was a part of something greater than myself.”

What both of these attitudes have in common is they are rooted in emotions, specifically fear and anger, which were connected to social exclusion, alienation and worry over power.

“Critically, unemployment or poverty alone is not the only push factor inciting violence and extremism,” the UN Development Program’s 2016 Preventing Violent Extremism report noted.

“Perceptions of injustice, human-rights violations, social-political exclusion, widespread corruption or sustained mistreatment of certain groups, are also considered important push factors,” the report stated.

This may surprise you. Some commentators like to paint terrorism as a violent response to economic marginalization. On one level, it is true that economics has something to do with it: Extremism is a multifaceted creature with many contributory causes. Extensive analysis of w***e s*********t attitudes in Europe found that support for nationalists grew during economic recessions. However that’s not the whole story.

Consider this finding:

“In his 2003 statistical analysis of the success of eight extreme eight parties in Western Europe between 1970 and 2000, Matt Golder finds that unemployment has no effect on right-wing populist v**es when the number of immigrants is low: It is the interaction between economic hard times and the presence of immigrants that boosts extremism.”

In other words, it’s not the mere presence of fiscal difficulties that is the problem. Extremism happens when people perceive the existence of an external threat from which the extremists need to protect themselves from.

They believe this protection is going to come from violence and the establishment of an authoritarian and exclusionary state. Meaning, the lack of money makes that message easier to sell, but it isn’t the main message.

The jump to an extremist movement comes when the individual stops believing that the state is legitimate and instead sees the extremist group as a legitimate authority that can authorize violence and mete out justice.

What makes that jump possible is an emotional attachment to the cause.

While it is true that there can be r**ts and even revolutions over economic conditions, we are nowhere near those conditions in Western countries. Most people are not at risk of starvation or queuing for bread and can afford basic necessities.

What people are suffering from is a fragmented and alienating world that frequently fails to offer a sense of belonging, meaning and purpose.

Critically, multi-cultural Western societies have so far failed to offer a convincing enough vision of a national identity that isn’t rooted in ethnic p***e or religious heritage to draw people together as a cohesive whole.

That failure leaves room for exploitative extremist groups peddling h**e to recruit angry young men (and women) in search of meaning.

Any robust counter-extremism policy has to address these emotional and psychological considerations in addition to economics.
---------------------------------------------------------------
A pretty easy to understand piece from the Clarion... (show quote)


Brilliant post and I suggest Beto O’Rourke is a prime example. He married a woman with money and is still making an effort to gain power to go with his wife’s money.
What would happen, where would he go next if she suddenly withdrew the money.
Stupid response to an intelligent post, but that’s what I kept thinking as I read.

Reply
 
 
Aug 22, 2019 19:30:36   #
Hug
 
Lt. Rob Polans ret. wrote:
A pretty easy to understand piece from the Clarion Project, yet we still argue about it. Odd, I studied economics in college and was in touch with a few of the top economists until I started getting the sky is falling letters non-stop for years. The sky is still there.

Why Extremism Isn’t About Economics

Is extremism really about economics? We have all heard the argument that people turn to extremism because of poverty. Yet is this theory substantiated?

If you want to understand what an ideology is about, spending at least some time reading what they say about themselves is key.

So when you spend any length of time reading extremist propaganda, either Islamist or neo-N**ism, one of the first things you notice is how little they talk about economics.

This is even though many extremists come from less well-off sections of society. Of course, many jihadis – particularly those from Europe who joined the ranks of ISIS — passed through some of the country’s best universities and had bright futures ahead of them.

One University in particular, London’s prestigious Westminster University, saw seven students become jihadis for ISIS. Others who came had fewer prospects.

A GLOBOSEC report analyzing 197 jihadis arrested in 2017 and 2018 found that 40 percent were unemployed at the time of their arrest, death or expulsion.

Some joined jihadism as the next logical step in a progression of subversive violent behavior. “In many European countries, the majority of jihadist foreign fighters are former criminals,” a report by the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political Violence titled Criminal Pasts, Terrorist Futures concluded.

Yet economic opportunity does not seem to be why they chose to wage war against the West.

Islamist extremists are far more likely to talk about “humiliation,” the dignity of the Muslim people, social exclusion and how their way of life is under threat.

Similarly, neo-N**is and w***e s*********ts are also not likely to cite economics. Instead, they talk about degeneracy, the risk posed to white culture by mass immigration and how their way of life is under threat.

Former White Nationalist and founder of the non-profit group Life After H**e Christopher Picciolini described his motives for becoming a white nationalist as being rooted in acceptance and belonging, rather than an ability to pay bills.

“I felt a sort of energy flow through me that I had never felt before,” he told NPR about his joining the movement, “as if I was a part of something greater than myself.”

What both of these attitudes have in common is they are rooted in emotions, specifically fear and anger, which were connected to social exclusion, alienation and worry over power.

“Critically, unemployment or poverty alone is not the only push factor inciting violence and extremism,” the UN Development Program’s 2016 Preventing Violent Extremism report noted.

“Perceptions of injustice, human-rights violations, social-political exclusion, widespread corruption or sustained mistreatment of certain groups, are also considered important push factors,” the report stated.

This may surprise you. Some commentators like to paint terrorism as a violent response to economic marginalization. On one level, it is true that economics has something to do with it: Extremism is a multifaceted creature with many contributory causes. Extensive analysis of w***e s*********t attitudes in Europe found that support for nationalists grew during economic recessions. However that’s not the whole story.

Consider this finding:

“In his 2003 statistical analysis of the success of eight extreme eight parties in Western Europe between 1970 and 2000, Matt Golder finds that unemployment has no effect on right-wing populist v**es when the number of immigrants is low: It is the interaction between economic hard times and the presence of immigrants that boosts extremism.”

In other words, it’s not the mere presence of fiscal difficulties that is the problem. Extremism happens when people perceive the existence of an external threat from which the extremists need to protect themselves from.

They believe this protection is going to come from violence and the establishment of an authoritarian and exclusionary state. Meaning, the lack of money makes that message easier to sell, but it isn’t the main message.

The jump to an extremist movement comes when the individual stops believing that the state is legitimate and instead sees the extremist group as a legitimate authority that can authorize violence and mete out justice.

What makes that jump possible is an emotional attachment to the cause.

While it is true that there can be r**ts and even revolutions over economic conditions, we are nowhere near those conditions in Western countries. Most people are not at risk of starvation or queuing for bread and can afford basic necessities.

What people are suffering from is a fragmented and alienating world that frequently fails to offer a sense of belonging, meaning and purpose.

Critically, multi-cultural Western societies have so far failed to offer a convincing enough vision of a national identity that isn’t rooted in ethnic p***e or religious heritage to draw people together as a cohesive whole.

That failure leaves room for exploitative extremist groups peddling h**e to recruit angry young men (and women) in search of meaning.

Any robust counter-extremism policy has to address these emotional and psychological considerations in addition to economics.
---------------------------------------------------------------
A pretty easy to understand piece from the Clarion... (show quote)


Great Post!

Reply
Aug 22, 2019 20:09:30   #
emarine
 
Hug wrote:
Great Post!





Extremists are weak individuals that require support in numbers & blame others for their failures ... just take a hard look at trump...

Reply
Aug 22, 2019 20:54:16   #
debeda
 
Lt. Rob Polans ret. wrote:
A pretty easy to understand piece from the Clarion Project, yet we still argue about it. Odd, I studied economics in college and was in touch with a few of the top economists until I started getting the sky is falling letters non-stop for years. The sky is still there.

Why Extremism Isn’t About Economics

Is extremism really about economics? We have all heard the argument that people turn to extremism because of poverty. Yet is this theory substantiated?

If you want to understand what an ideology is about, spending at least some time reading what they say about themselves is key.

So when you spend any length of time reading extremist propaganda, either Islamist or neo-N**ism, one of the first things you notice is how little they talk about economics.

This is even though many extremists come from less well-off sections of society. Of course, many jihadis – particularly those from Europe who joined the ranks of ISIS — passed through some of the country’s best universities and had bright futures ahead of them.

One University in particular, London’s prestigious Westminster University, saw seven students become jihadis for ISIS. Others who came had fewer prospects.

A GLOBOSEC report analyzing 197 jihadis arrested in 2017 and 2018 found that 40 percent were unemployed at the time of their arrest, death or expulsion.

Some joined jihadism as the next logical step in a progression of subversive violent behavior. “In many European countries, the majority of jihadist foreign fighters are former criminals,” a report by the International Center for the Study of Radicalization and Political Violence titled Criminal Pasts, Terrorist Futures concluded.

Yet economic opportunity does not seem to be why they chose to wage war against the West.

Islamist extremists are far more likely to talk about “humiliation,” the dignity of the Muslim people, social exclusion and how their way of life is under threat.

Similarly, neo-N**is and w***e s*********ts are also not likely to cite economics. Instead, they talk about degeneracy, the risk posed to white culture by mass immigration and how their way of life is under threat.

Former White Nationalist and founder of the non-profit group Life After H**e Christopher Picciolini described his motives for becoming a white nationalist as being rooted in acceptance and belonging, rather than an ability to pay bills.

“I felt a sort of energy flow through me that I had never felt before,” he told NPR about his joining the movement, “as if I was a part of something greater than myself.”

What both of these attitudes have in common is they are rooted in emotions, specifically fear and anger, which were connected to social exclusion, alienation and worry over power.

“Critically, unemployment or poverty alone is not the only push factor inciting violence and extremism,” the UN Development Program’s 2016 Preventing Violent Extremism report noted.

“Perceptions of injustice, human-rights violations, social-political exclusion, widespread corruption or sustained mistreatment of certain groups, are also considered important push factors,” the report stated.

This may surprise you. Some commentators like to paint terrorism as a violent response to economic marginalization. On one level, it is true that economics has something to do with it: Extremism is a multifaceted creature with many contributory causes. Extensive analysis of w***e s*********t attitudes in Europe found that support for nationalists grew during economic recessions. However that’s not the whole story.

Consider this finding:

“In his 2003 statistical analysis of the success of eight extreme eight parties in Western Europe between 1970 and 2000, Matt Golder finds that unemployment has no effect on right-wing populist v**es when the number of immigrants is low: It is the interaction between economic hard times and the presence of immigrants that boosts extremism.”

In other words, it’s not the mere presence of fiscal difficulties that is the problem. Extremism happens when people perceive the existence of an external threat from which the extremists need to protect themselves from.

They believe this protection is going to come from violence and the establishment of an authoritarian and exclusionary state. Meaning, the lack of money makes that message easier to sell, but it isn’t the main message.

The jump to an extremist movement comes when the individual stops believing that the state is legitimate and instead sees the extremist group as a legitimate authority that can authorize violence and mete out justice.

What makes that jump possible is an emotional attachment to the cause.

While it is true that there can be r**ts and even revolutions over economic conditions, we are nowhere near those conditions in Western countries. Most people are not at risk of starvation or queuing for bread and can afford basic necessities.

What people are suffering from is a fragmented and alienating world that frequently fails to offer a sense of belonging, meaning and purpose.

Critically, multi-cultural Western societies have so far failed to offer a convincing enough vision of a national identity that isn’t rooted in ethnic p***e or religious heritage to draw people together as a cohesive whole.

That failure leaves room for exploitative extremist groups peddling h**e to recruit angry young men (and women) in search of meaning.

Any robust counter-extremism policy has to address these emotional and psychological considerations in addition to economics.
---------------------------------------------------------------
A pretty easy to understand piece from the Clarion... (show quote)


Absolutely!! Humans are, at heart, pack/herd animals. We need to feel a part of something, and more that we are contributing. Especially the young.
That is why I worry about our young people. When we were young we'd get our weekly readers with all the wonders coming to the world and that we were going to be a part of this wondrous new world with creativity, inventions, medicine and many other terrific things. The world was waiting for us.
Young people now can get a degree in "Social Justice" Good grief

Reply
Aug 22, 2019 20:55:07   #
debeda
 
emarine wrote:
Extremists are weak individuals that require support in numbers & blame others for their failures ... just take a hard look at trump...



Reply
 
 
Aug 23, 2019 16:21:38   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
debeda wrote:


Yep, he was doing ok until he brought Trump into it. I was trying to show that we have other things to worry about.

Reply
Aug 23, 2019 16:40:39   #
debeda
 
Lt. Rob Polans ret. wrote:
Yep, he was doing ok until he brought Trump into it. I was trying to show that we have other things to worry about.



Reply
Aug 23, 2019 18:35:44   #
PLT Sarge Loc: Alabama
 
[quote=Lt. Rob Polans ret.]Yep, he was doing ok until he brought Trump into it. I was trying to show that we have other things to worry about. This is the reason I haven't been posting much. It seems that there are those here that believe everything is about politics. If a post is insightful, as yours was, someone somehow is going to introduce h**e in reply. It has become boring. I thought this was a forum to present posts with facts for civil discussion. Instead of just throwing a dish rag against the wall to see if it will stick.

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