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Faith, Religion, Spirituality
Does God reward “good deeds”? To say yes, for me, is a misunderstanding.
Aug 12, 2019 23:36:20   #
rumitoid
 
We know that “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:14-26) but we also know this: “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.” (Romans 10:9-10) Why isn't there a conflict between these two verses?

Most Protestants insist we are Saved by faith alone, while Catholics are seen as apostates by their doctrine insisting we need works to be saved. That aside, if a lack of works kills faith, many questions arise. It makes it appear we can lose our justification, for if by faith alone we are saved and a lack of works kills faith, that essential link for salvation is broken.

But there is another question: the difference between being justified and salvation. I will just briefly comment on this because probably all Christians here know the answer. No virtue and no works in us brought about this new standing with God, our justification. It is an event. The Holy Spirit suddenly opens our blind eyes to see Christ for who he is and unites us to Christ by faith alone. In that event, we pass from being under condemnation into God’s being one hundred percent for us. We are counted instantaneously as righteous.

Salvation seems a process. “Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12) “Work out your salvation”: a process. The process seems as essential as the event. It definitely seems that a failure to do works and we lose our salvation. What can account for the belief a Christian cannot lose their salvation?

Two things: Never truly saved in the first place, their mouth and their heart were not in agreement. The other is there is only one way to do “works”: by spirit and grace. It is not within our own virtue, power, strength, and effort to do so. The only virtue, power, strength, and effort possible is a surrender to spirit and grace, through our unearned justification. The only way we can resist temptation is that surrender, not by our own effort, thought, morals, obeying the Commandments, or intent. Good deeds are not ours to do. The only reward we have is being true to the spirit of God.

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Aug 13, 2019 00:41:09   #
Radiance3
 
rumitoid wrote:
We know that “Faith without works is dead” (James 2:14-26) but we also know this: “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.” (Romans 10:9-10) Why isn't there a conflict between these two verses?

Most Protestants insist we are Saved by faith alone, while Catholics are seen as apostates by their doctrine insisting we need works to be saved. That aside, if a lack of works kills faith, many questions arise. It makes it appear we can lose our justification, for if by faith alone we are saved and a lack of works kills faith, that essential link for salvation is broken.

But there is another question: the difference between being justified and salvation. I will just briefly comment on this because probably all Christians here know the answer. No virtue and no works in us brought about this new standing with God, our justification. It is an event. The Holy Spirit suddenly opens our blind eyes to see Christ for who he is and unites us to Christ by faith alone. In that event, we pass from being under condemnation into God’s being one hundred percent for us. We are counted instantaneously as righteous.

Salvation seems a process. “Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12) “Work out your salvation”: a process. The process seems as essential as the event. It definitely seems that a failure to do works and we lose our salvation. What can account for the belief a Christian cannot lose their salvation?

Two things: Never truly saved in the first place, their mouth and their heart were not in agreement. The other is there is only one way to do “works”: by spirit and grace. It is not within our own virtue, power, strength, and effort to do so. The only virtue, power, strength, and effort possible is a surrender to spirit and grace, through our unearned justification. The only way we can resist temptation is that surrender, not by our own effort, thought, morals, obeying the Commandments, or intent. Good deeds are not ours to do. The only reward we have is being true to the spirit of God.
We know that “Faith without works is dead” (James... (show quote)

===============
Those two verses are not in conflict.
A good work is done because of faith.
I do help the least of my brothers because my faith in God tells me that.

Therefore faith with good works enhances God's reward for salvation.
I allow God to decide and judge me for that.

Faith alone is also good because some other people beyond their ability to do good work. God still understands that.

Faith by adding good works will make it even better. I do good works because of my faith. Without my faith, I don't care about doing good works. But we know that loving and caring for others especially the least of our brothers is important. We do that because of our faith.

Catholics believe in both. But faith alone can save if you don't have the chance to do good work. God will understand that. But if you have the chance and do it, then it enhances God's love for that.

Some Protestant also believe in faith and good works. E.g. The Rev. Billy Graham's son Rev. Franklin Graham also do faith and good works.
They also help the least of our brothers. E.g. They sent aid and medical team to Africa during the Ebola crisis in 2016.

James 2:14
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

James 2:26
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

James 2:20
But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

James 2:18
But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

James 2:25
In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.

Daniel 11:32
"By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.

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Aug 13, 2019 02:58:53   #
rumitoid
 
Radiance3 wrote:
===============
Those two verses are not in conflict.
A good work is done because of faith.
I do help the least of my brothers because my faith in God tells me that.

Therefore faith with good works enhances God's reward for salvation.
I allow God to decide and judge me for that.

Faith alone is also good because some other people beyond their ability to do good work. God still understands that.

Faith by adding good works will make it even better. I do good works because of my faith. Without my faith, I don't care about doing good works. But we know that loving and caring for others especially the least of our brothers is important. We do that because of our faith.

Catholics believe in both. But faith alone can save if you don't have the chance to do good work. God will understand that. But if you have the chance and do it, then it enhances God's love for that.

Some Protestant also believe in faith and good works. E.g. The Rev. Billy Graham's son Rev. Franklin Graham also do faith and good works.
They also help the least of our brothers. E.g. They sent aid and medical team to Africa during the Ebola crisis in 2016.

James 2:14
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

James 2:26
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

James 2:20
But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

James 2:18
But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

James 2:22
You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

James 2:25
In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.

Daniel 11:32
"By smooth words he will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action.
=============== br I Those two verses are not in ... (show quote)


Thank you, radiance, your words were truly lovely and uplifting. You hold the faith. God bless.

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Aug 13, 2019 08:33:17   #
Radiance3
 
rumitoid wrote:
Thank you, radiance, your words were truly lovely and uplifting. You hold the faith. God bless.

============
God bless you too rumi!

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