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Viet Nam War Facts, Stats & Myths
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Jul 22, 2019 11:10:12   #
debeda (a regular here)
 
currahee506 wrote:
I do like to talk about Viet Nam to those who called us "baby killers" with the intent to remind them that the real "baby killers" are themselves, the Pro-choicers. And, they are as much the enemy to America as were the NVA and VC to South Viet Nam.


DAMN straight, currahee

| Reply
Jul 22, 2019 12:02:16   #
badbobby (a regular here)
 
slatten49 wrote:
https://www.uswings.com/about-us-wings/vietnam-war-facts/


good post Slat
I don't quite agree with the number of draftees and volunteers
I don't know if you were drafted or volunteered
The Government allocated a system of numbers to determine if a young man was to be drafted
if the person got a high number he would be drafted
Lots of these young men.knowing that they would be drafted anyhow just volunteered to enlist in the Service they preferred That kinda puts a twist on the number of volunteers vs draftees
That being said,I believe that was a senseless war,benefiting and supervised by politicians
But as I have reiterated over and over
It was a bad war
but the young men who had to fight in it were not bad
they were heroes of our country
And the receptions they received from the American public when they came home
made me and others like me ashamed of our country
I for one am proud of 'Nam' veterans,and I feel that every one should be

| Reply
Jul 22, 2019 12:24:19   #
slatten49 (a regular here)
 
badbobby wrote:
good post Slat
I don't quite agree with the number of draftees and volunteers
I don't know if you were drafted or volunteered
The Government allocated a system of numbers to determine if a young man was to be drafted
if the person got a high number he would be drafted
Lots of these young men.knowing that they would be drafted anyhow just volunteered to enlist in the Service they preferred That kinda puts a twist on the number of volunteers vs draftees
That being said,I believe that was a senseless war,benefiting and supervised by politicians
But as I have reiterated over and over
It was a bad war
but the young men who had to fight in it were not bad
they were heroes of our country
And the receptions they received from the American public when they came home
made me and others like me ashamed of our country
I for one am proud of 'Nam' veterans,and I feel that every one should be
good post Slat br I don't quite agree with the num... (show quote)

I volunteered. You can be assured 'Nam Veterans were/are proud of the extraordinary precedent of honor and service to country WWII/Korea Veterans, "The Greatest Generation," set for us.

SEMPER FI, my friend...and, Anchors Away

| Reply
Jul 22, 2019 13:32:19   #
Larai (a regular here)
 
I'm afraid I may owe an apology to those that are real vets and that do talk about their time in vietnam.. My post was in regards to my own personal experience when talking to vets from the VFW that wouldn't talk about it...and their commentary regarding "wanna be vietnam vets" is what they called some of them...

So my humble apology to the men n women that fought over there, that share their tales to enlighten people on what it was really like over there.

| Reply
Jul 22, 2019 14:44:33   #
slatten49 (a regular here)
 
Larai wrote:
I'm afraid I may owe an apology to those that are real vets and that do talk about their time in vietnam.. My post was in regards to my own personal experience when talking to vets from the VFW that wouldn't talk about it...and their commentary regarding "wanna be vietnam vets" is what they called some of them...

So my humble apology to the men n women that fought over there, that share their tales to enlighten people on what it was really like over there.

Larai, this 'Nam Vet accepts your apology. However, I do not necessarily believe it due. What you said, to a large degree, was/is true. For years, many...if not most of 'Nam Vets...did not care to talk about their time in country. But a lot eventually sought counseling, as the burdens & conflicts trapped within us surfaced enough that it became cause for alarm no longer to be ignored.

My biggest takeaway from VA counseling was that airing out emotional or psychological damage from that war with other 'Nam Vets was the best way to deal with those nagging, painful memories. The feeling of sharing a common bond was/is, IMO, the key to opening up to others. To this day, most discussions concerning that war are with other 'Nam Vets, albeit there are occasional sit-downs with Vets of WWII, Korea, and the various Middle Eastern conflicts.

I suspect, that given your time talking with those at the VFW in Santa Cruz, what I have written here was probably known to you. Bless you for giving your time to our brothers/sisters.

| Reply
Jul 22, 2019 14:55:09   #
Larai (a regular here)
 
slatten49 wrote:
Larai, this 'Nam Vet accepts your apology. However, I do not necessarily believe it due. What you said, to a large degree, was/is true. For years, many...if not most of 'Nam Vets...did not care to talk about their time in country. But some eventually sought counseling, as the burdens & conflicts trapped within us surfaced enough that it became cause for alarm no longer to be ignored.

My biggest takeaway from VA counseling was that airing out emotional or psychological damage from that war with other 'Nam Vets was the best way to deal with those nagging, painful memories. The feeling of sharing a common bond was/is, IMO, the key to opening up to others. To this day, most discussions concerning that war are with other 'Nam Vets, albeit there are occasional sit-downs with Vets of WWII, Korea, and the various Middle Eastern conflicts.

I suspect that, given your time talking with those at the VFW in Santa Cruz, what I have written here was probably known to you. Bless you for giving your time to our brothers/sisters.
Larai, this 'Nam Vet accepts your apology. Howeve... (show quote)


Thank you for serving!!..Thank you also for validating what I said..My ex, that served two tours over there had nightmares damn near every night..even after all that time had passed..I felt for him, but felt helpless to help him.. It was my honor to assist at the VFW...I met some damn fine warriors there...It was a learning experience for me.. I was only 18 and did this for 2 years...I learned alot.. I actually tried to get into the military at 21..passed my asvab.. got as far as the physical, and was deemed 4F, I was born w/out a thyroid gland and so had to take replacement thyroid medication.. daily to stay alive...So no military for me... however I do try to do what I can...The DAV made me an honorary commander...born on the USMC birthday, so I've always had this sense of duty to our guys and gals..

| Reply
Jul 22, 2019 19:55:26   #
virginiabeef
 
karpenter wrote:
Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. General Westmoreland quoting Douglas Pike (a professor at the University of California, Berkeley),
a major military defeat for the VC and NVA.

Not Just Westmoreland
If You Watch Enough Documentaries
The NVA Commanders OF THE TIME Freely Say
TET Was When The US WON THE WAR
...They Were Ready To Throw In The Towel
But They Were Heartened By Reports Of Protests In The US
Spurred By Walter Cronkite's UNQUALIFIED OPINION
Of 'Un-Winnable Quagmire'

TET Was Fought Jan - Feb 1968
Subsequent Un-Warranted American Casualties:
34,156 Un-Apologized For Deaths By The Left
Until 1975
https://www.archives.gov/research/military/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics

Yep
The American Left Has Sucked For A Long Time
Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vi... (show quote)


You are absolutely correct about America not losing the Vietnam War. We did not lose! We left!

As a MACV Advisor to an ARVN Combat Ordnance Battalion I saw the war from a different point of view than most folks. I spent a lot of TDY time in country in 1967-1968, including I Corps (MR1) and a full tour in 1969. Based outside DaNang with operations from DaLat to the DMZ. I spent time in Hue and also in the 121st Evac Hospital in DaNang. Think the TV program MASH. Wasn't too far off the mark in those days.

The reason most guys don't talk about the war is because it causes them to relive events they have long tried to put away. Talking to another combat vet who can relate is usually easier than talking to a civilian. BTW, some of the bravest people in the war were the Dust Off pilots and their crews. The Jolly Greens weren't far behind. Talk about balls of steel -- those guys qualified and they saved a lot of lives. For those of you who don't know about Dust Off missions here are a couple of YouTube video links to give you a little insight as to what it was like: https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/b-209646-e-2013 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwYKbzFZjXk

The first rule of battle is to "know thy enemy." In Vietnam, the US command structure did not know the enemy. Even worse, the command structure did not understand nor respect the enemy's strategies and tactics. The Viet Cong and the NVA used strategies and tactic like the Swamp Fox. Hide, Hit and Run. The command structure tried to overlay land mass army strategies and sandbox tactics onto a guerilla war. Doesn't work.

Also, the US military leadership and the politicians were completely ignorant regarding who their opposition leaders were. My counterparts and I hated the VC and the NVA, but we did respect their tenacity and ability. When Uncle Ho was replaced by the Chinese, things changed. Uncle Ho's war of reunification became something much different. The Chinese wanted and needed the bread basket of Southeast Asia. They got it.

In 1969, the US had 469,000 troops in country, plus the allied forces. The South Vietnamese had about 1.5 million troops available. The combined total of armed forces on our side was over 2 million folks. We were fully armed and supplied with everything we needed to move north and take Hanoi. We had just defeated North Vietnam in Tet of '68. Yes, they were demoralized and nearly at the point of surrender.
There was nothing in the way to stop us from taking Hanoi and putting an end to the war.

But, what was in our way were the US politicians, the war protesters, and the US media (well fed with Hanoi propaganda). Kissinger, Nixon, and all their incompetent pals were hell bent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The US Congress cut all funding and support for South Vietnam, while the Chinese made sure that North Vietnam had lots of new stuff. The US command structure never sought nor listened to those of us who were on the ground and had a first hand view of what was going on. The only thing they seemed to care about was "body count."

My counterpart was a battalion commander. He hated the communists more than you can imagine. He lost several members of his family during the war. When Nixon announced the "Vietnamization" of the war, all of us on the ground knew the US was getting ready to cut and run. Rule number two of combat: Don't stick your nose into somebody else's war if you don't intend to win.

What the Vietnam War protesters, Hanoi Jane, the media and the politicians never talk about is what happened after our pullout in 1975. By some estimates the North Vietnamese killed more than 2 million people starting in 1976-1979. They killed anyone who was known to be in the South Vietnamese armed forces who resisted the takeover and wouldn't become a communist. They killed anyone who worked for or supported the US and allied forces, including cooks, interpreters, drivers, etc. They either killed them, and often their families, by direct execution, through re-education camps (think starvation and exposure to the elements) or through slave labor death. They executed my counterpart.

Ken Burns and his leftist friends will never make a movie about what really happened in Vietnam. They don't have the courage. The Hollywood gutless wonders and those on the Left cannot handle the truth, which is probably another reason why Vietnam vets don't talk about the Vietnam War. It's like talking to a wall.

| Reply
Jul 22, 2019 20:40:15   #
debeda (a regular here)
 
virginiabeef wrote:
You are absolutely correct about America not losing the Vietnam War. We did not lose! We left!

As a MACV Advisor to an ARVN Combat Ordnance Battalion I saw the war from a different point of view than most folks. I spent a lot of TDY time in country in 1967-1968, including I Corps (MR1) and a full tour in 1969. Based outside DaNang with operations from DaLat to the DMZ. I spent time in Hue and also in the 121st Evac Hospital in DaNang. Think the TV program MASH. Wasn't too far off the mark in those days.

The reason most guys don't talk about the war is because it causes them to relive events they have long tried to put away. Talking to another combat vet who can relate is usually easier than talking to a civilian. BTW, some of the bravest people in the war were the Dust Off pilots and their crews. The Jolly Greens weren't far behind. Talk about balls of steel -- those guys qualified and they saved a lot of lives. For those of you who don't know about Dust Off missions here are a couple of YouTube video links to give you a little insight as to what it was like: https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/b-209646-e-2013 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwYKbzFZjXk

The first rule of battle is to "know thy enemy." In Vietnam, the US command structure did not know the enemy. Even worse, the command structure did not understand nor respect the enemy's strategies and tactics. The Viet Cong and the NVA used strategies and tactic like the Swamp Fox. Hide, Hit and Run. The command structure tried to overlay land mass army strategies and sandbox tactics onto a guerilla war. Doesn't work.

Also, the US military leadership and the politicians were completely ignorant regarding who their opposition leaders were. My counterparts and I hated the VC and the NVA, but we did respect their tenacity and ability. When Uncle Ho was replaced by the Chinese, things changed. Uncle Ho's war of reunification became something much different. The Chinese wanted and needed the bread basket of Southeast Asia. They got it.

In 1969, the US had 469,000 troops in country, plus the allied forces. The South Vietnamese had about 1.5 million troops available. The combined total of armed forces on our side was over 2 million folks. We were fully armed and supplied with everything we needed to move north and take Hanoi. We had just defeated North Vietnam in Tet of '68. Yes, they were demoralized and nearly at the point of surrender.
There was nothing in the way to stop us from taking Hanoi and putting an end to the war.

But, what was in our way were the US politicians, the war protesters, and the US media (well fed with Hanoi propaganda). Kissinger, Nixon, and all their incompetent pals were hell bent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The US Congress cut all funding and support for South Vietnam, while the Chinese made sure that North Vietnam had lots of new stuff. The US command structure never sought nor listened to those of us who were on the ground and had a first hand view of what was going on. The only thing they seemed to care about was "body count."

My counterpart was a battalion commander. He hated the communists more than you can imagine. He lost several members of his family during the war. When Nixon announced the "Vietnamization" of the war, all of us on the ground knew the US was getting ready to cut and run. Rule number two of combat: Don't stick your nose into somebody else's war if you don't intend to win.

What the Vietnam War protesters, Hanoi Jane, the media and the politicians never talk about is what happened after our pullout in 1975. By some estimates the North Vietnamese killed more than 2 million people starting in 1976-1979. They killed anyone who was known to be in the South Vietnamese armed forces who resisted the takeover and wouldn't become a communist. They killed anyone who worked for or supported the US and allied forces, including cooks, interpreters, drivers, etc. They either killed them, and often their families, by direct execution, through re-education camps (think starvation and exposure to the elements) or through slave labor death. They executed my counterpart.

Ken Burns and his leftist friends will never make a movie about what really happened in Vietnam. They don't have the courage. The Hollywood gutless wonders and those on the Left cannot handle the truth, which is probably another reason why Vietnam vets don't talk about the Vietnam War. It's like talking to a wall.
You are absolutely correct about America not losin... (show quote)


WOW. First and foremost, Virginia beef, thank you sincerely for your service from the bottom of my heart. And welcome to OPP. Terrific first hand account, thanks for sharing

| Reply
Jul 22, 2019 20:53:38   #
Larai (a regular here)
 
virginiabeef wrote:
You are absolutely correct about America not losing the Vietnam War. We did not lose! We left!

As a MACV Advisor to an ARVN Combat Ordnance Battalion I saw the war from a different point of view than most folks. I spent a lot of TDY time in country in 1967-1968, including I Corps (MR1) and a full tour in 1969. Based outside DaNang with operations from DaLat to the DMZ. I spent time in Hue and also in the 121st Evac Hospital in DaNang. Think the TV program MASH. Wasn't too far off the mark in those days.

The reason most guys don't talk about the war is because it causes them to relive events they have long tried to put away. Talking to another combat vet who can relate is usually easier than talking to a civilian. BTW, some of the bravest people in the war were the Dust Off pilots and their crews. The Jolly Greens weren't far behind. Talk about balls of steel -- those guys qualified and they saved a lot of lives. For those of you who don't know about Dust Off missions here are a couple of YouTube video links to give you a little insight as to what it was like: https://www.onepoliticalplaza.com/b-209646-e-2013 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwYKbzFZjXk

The first rule of battle is to "know thy enemy." In Vietnam, the US command structure did not know the enemy. Even worse, the command structure did not understand nor respect the enemy's strategies and tactics. The Viet Cong and the NVA used strategies and tactic like the Swamp Fox. Hide, Hit and Run. The command structure tried to overlay land mass army strategies and sandbox tactics onto a guerilla war. Doesn't work.

Also, the US military leadership and the politicians were completely ignorant regarding who their opposition leaders were. My counterparts and I hated the VC and the NVA, but we did respect their tenacity and ability. When Uncle Ho was replaced by the Chinese, things changed. Uncle Ho's war of reunification became something much different. The Chinese wanted and needed the bread basket of Southeast Asia. They got it.

In 1969, the US had 469,000 troops in country, plus the allied forces. The South Vietnamese had about 1.5 million troops available. The combined total of armed forces on our side was over 2 million folks. We were fully armed and supplied with everything we needed to move north and take Hanoi. We had just defeated North Vietnam in Tet of '68. Yes, they were demoralized and nearly at the point of surrender.
There was nothing in the way to stop us from taking Hanoi and putting an end to the war.

But, what was in our way were the US politicians, the war protesters, and the US media (well fed with Hanoi propaganda). Kissinger, Nixon, and all their incompetent pals were hell bent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. The US Congress cut all funding and support for South Vietnam, while the Chinese made sure that North Vietnam had lots of new stuff. The US command structure never sought nor listened to those of us who were on the ground and had a first hand view of what was going on. The only thing they seemed to care about was "body count."

My counterpart was a battalion commander. He hated the communists more than you can imagine. He lost several members of his family during the war. When Nixon announced the "Vietnamization" of the war, all of us on the ground knew the US was getting ready to cut and run. Rule number two of combat: Don't stick your nose into somebody else's war if you don't intend to win.

What the Vietnam War protesters, Hanoi Jane, the media and the politicians never talk about is what happened after our pullout in 1975. By some estimates the North Vietnamese killed more than 2 million people starting in 1976-1979. They killed anyone who was known to be in the South Vietnamese armed forces who resisted the takeover and wouldn't become a communist. They killed anyone who worked for or supported the US and allied forces, including cooks, interpreters, drivers, etc. They either killed them, and often their families, by direct execution, through re-education camps (think starvation and exposure to the elements) or through slave labor death. They executed my counterpart.

Ken Burns and his leftist friends will never make a movie about what really happened in Vietnam. They don't have the courage. The Hollywood gutless wonders and those on the Left cannot handle the truth, which is probably another reason why Vietnam vets don't talk about the Vietnam War. It's like talking to a wall.
You are absolutely correct about America not losin... (show quote)


Thank you for the info.. most of my "knowledge" of vietnam came from both the vets I knew and my former hubby...some agreed about the war as in support of America..and some were disgruntled... but as a whole I learned a bit from them..and just learned some more!

Thank you for serving!! 🇺🇸

| Reply
Jul 22, 2019 23:55:04   #
Roger non Dodger
 
WE LOST... Get over it.

| Reply
Jul 23, 2019 14:50:49   #
promilitary (a regular here)
 
karpenter wrote:
Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. General Westmoreland quoting Douglas Pike (a professor at the University of California, Berkeley),
a major military defeat for the VC and NVA.

Not Just Westmoreland
If You Watch Enough Documentaries
The NVA Commanders OF THE TIME Freely Say
TET Was When The US WON THE WAR
...They Were Ready To Throw In The Towel
But They Were Heartened By Reports Of Protests In The US
Spurred By Walter Cronkite's UNQUALIFIED OPINION
Of 'Un-Winnable Quagmire'

TET Was Fought Jan - Feb 1968
Subsequent Un-Warranted American Casualties:
34,156 Un-Apologized For Deaths By The Left
Until 1975
https://www.archives.gov/research/military/vietnam-war/casualty-statistics

Yep
The American Left Has Sucked For A Long Time
Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vi... (show quote)




Yes, General Giep was stunned......and he was ready to throw in the towel.

| Reply
Jul 23, 2019 16:01:30   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret. (a regular here)
 
currahee506 wrote:
I do like to talk about Viet Nam to those who called us "baby killers" with the intent to remind them that the real "baby killers" are themselves, the Pro-choicers. And, they are as much the enemy to America as were the NVA and VC to South Viet Nam.


I don't talk about it that much because PTSD will start up. I put too many holes in these walls already. I did manage to meet 27 now 26 brothers and sisters who are friends for life. Thanks, Slatten, that was nice to read. I still think we should have taken the damn oil, enough of us died for it.

| Reply
Jul 23, 2019 16:26:02   #
slatten49 (a regular here)
 
Lt. Rob Polans ret. wrote:
I don't talk about it that much because PTSD will start up. I put too many holes in these walls already. I did manage to meet 27 now 26 brothers and sisters who are friends for life. Thanks, Slatten, that was nice to read. I still think we should have taken the damn oil, enough of us died for it.

Welcome home, Brother.

SEMPER FI

| Reply
Jul 23, 2019 21:04:58   #
virginiabeef
 
Roger non Dodger wrote:
WE LOST... Get over it.


Clearly written by someone who wasn't even born during the time of the Vietnam War. Someone who has never worn a military uniform. Someone who doesn't recognize the difference between military and battlefield successes and political betrayal of a nation by our politicians.

Most likely written by a 47 y/o Section 8 loser. Like I said Bozo, We didn't lose. We left. Your pea-sized brain probably can't discern the difference. "Get over it" Tell that to the survivors and descendants of unarmed family members and innocents who were slaughtered by the North Vietnamese. Roger non Dodger would like us to believe that he's some sort of a political independent, but he writes like a middle-aged dipstick.

| Reply
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