GOD'S Biblical Covenants with Man
Jul 16, 2019 11:50:48 #
First Part: A Look at Bible Covenants and Their Meanings
- to the nation of Israel - to whom they were ALL given - and their significance to the Church for edification today.
Definition: From the Hebrew berith it is translated "will", "covenant and "testament," and comes from the word translated "to cut". Also from the Greek diatheke. It is mentioned 300 times in Scripture. It is important to note that not all the covenants are mutual agreements i.e., it is not IF you do this THEN I will do that.
A covenant in the strict biblical sense is not a joint obligation but rather a commitment one makes to another. A covenant is a relationship wherein the party making the covenant binds himself to fulfill certain conditions. This was often sworn and invoked in the presence of God to make the promise more solemn and binding (1 Samuel 20:8). When God's name was invoked and the covenant was broken it was considered a heinous sin (Ezekiel 17:12-20).
An example of covenant is marriage (Proverbs 2:17; Malachi 2:14). Covenants were sealed with a gift which was to be looked at and remembered (Genesis 21:30) or attested to by a monument such as planting a tree (Genesis 21:33) or a heap of stones (Genesis 31:52).
Examples of Covenants
Man to Man
Between Relative Equals
As in marriage Proverbs 2:17 and Malachi 2:14
As between Abraham and Abimelech governing water rights in Genesis 21:27.
As between tribes or nations 1 Samuel 11:1.
Between Superior to Subordinate
As when Nebuchadnezzar imposed the covenant on Zedekiah in Ezekiel 17.
God to Man
Since man is not in a position to covenant with God either as a relative equal and since God has not imposed His covenants on man we can see that covenants relating to God in Scripture are rather self-imposed. In this regard God agrees to arrange His providences for the welfare of man.
Examples: God chose Israel to be His nation, adopting the Hebrews to be
His people (Amos 3:2).
God chose to redeem sinful man.
Steps in Covenant Cutting
. 1. Preparation--Since a covenant was meant to be a permanent relationship it was entered into only after much prayer, counsel and deep thought.
. 2. A Witness was sought as a trusted mediator of both sides. A covenant was meant to be a public declaration of intent. Depending on its importance, God was sometimes called upon to witness. Sometimes heaven and earth were the only witnesses.
. 3. Often garments and weapons were exchanged. A garment signified who the individual was i.e. the tribes would wear clothing which would readily be identifiable to others. This kept the parties ever mindful of their commitment.
. 4. The belt or girdle would be exchanged signifying, "My strength is your strength."
. 5. An animal would be split in two and the parties would stand in the midst of the split animal, thus representing as the animal gave up its life, so too, will I give up my life to maintain this covenant. In a mutual covenant both parties would then cut their own wrists, raise their hands into the air and clasp hands while pointing to heaven making God their witness to this agreement. The intermingling of the blood signified the joining of a blood relationship. They would then often cauterize the wound with a hot
branding iron to inflict a noticeable scar which would act as a perpetual reminder.
. 6. Often times names would be exchanged and the parties would refer to themselves as ___________ the friend of ____________.
. 7. Exchange a list of ALL assets and liabilities because as a united, covenanted pair they would each share the other's belongings and burdens.
. 8. A formal exchange of the covenant's blessings and curses was then made in public and an exchange of Mizpah not asking for God's blessing or benediction but asking that Yahweh insure the faithfulness of the covenant.
. 9. Set up the covenant reminder, i.e. a plant, a tree, a heap of stones.
. 10. The covenant meal of bread and wine--This is my body which as you eat it becomes a part of you--this is my blood which as you drink it becomes your blood.
Covenants of the Bible
1. Edenic Covenant (Genesis 1:26-31; 2:16-17)
. God provided everything necessary for human existence in the Garden of Eden when man was innocent of all sin.There was only one simple prohibition, "...but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat."
The covenant was, "I will provide everything you will need as long as you do not eat of the one tree."
. Man's life in Eden was idyllic. Living in a perfect environment he had congenial employment and perfect companionship. Even God came and communed with him. Adam was appointed as a gardner and a guardian. He was told to dress and keep the garden as well as be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth.The prohibition was a test of his loyalty and love. The test itself tells us man was created a morally accountable creature responsible for his actions and answerable to God.This disproves the popular notion that given the perfect environment man will behave in a morally acceptable way.
. The Edenic covenant is one of two covenants that is conditional.
2. Adamic Covenant (Genesis 3:16-19)
. This covenant is unconditional in which God declared to Adam what man's lot in life will be now that sin is in the world. The conditions of this covenant will exist until the Kingdom Age (Romans 8:21). There is no appeal and there is no human responsibility involved.The outcome of the arrangement is entirely based on God and His sovereign control.
. Elements of the covenant are the cursing of the serpent used by Satan (Gen 3:14; Romans 16:20; 2 Cor 11:3, 14; Rev 12:9) the promise of a Redeemer (Gen 3:15). We see in this prophecy both advents of Christ. The multiplied sorrow and pain of women in childbirth and motherhood is also mentioned; prior to the fall woman's position in comparison to the man's was subordinate due to Adam's divinely ordained headship, after the fall firmer headship was invested in man due to woman's responding to the serpent. Man would henceforth earn his living by sweat (Gen 2:15); man's life would now be filled with sorrow and ultimate death (Gen 3:19; Eph 2:5). Perhaps the most significant curse was the spiritual death which Adam and Eve experienced "on the day they ate of the fruit." A flaming cherub was placed as a testimonial to the restriction of the covenant.
3. Noahic Covenant (Genesis 9:1-18)
. This covenant repeats some of the features of the Adamic but also adds the principle of human government as a means of curbing sin. Like the Adamic it is unconditional and it reveals God's purpose for the human race subsequent to Noah.
. Provisions included the establishment of captial punishment for taking another man's life, thus the institution of government is ordained as society was called upon to execute judgment; the normal order of nature is reaffirmed. (Man's dominance over the animals), and God restored nature's stability; man is given permission to eat the flesh of animals (Genesis 9:3-4) which is evidently a new allowance. The covenant with Noah also included prophecy concerning the descendents of his three sons designating Shem as the godly line through whom the Messiah would come; that world power would rest in the hands of Japeth (although at first this was not the case i.e. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon were Hamitic/Shemitic) and that the Canaanite races would come under God's special curse.
. The seal of the covenant was the rainbow.
4. Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 12:1-4; 13:14-17; 15:1-18; 17:1-8) Reconfirmed through Isaac (Genesis 26:2-5) Jacob (Genesis 28:1-4, 12-15)
This covenant is absolutely unconditional!!, is everlasting (Genesis 17:7) and is one of the most profound in Scripture.
The sign of the covenant is circumcision. In response to the question, "How may I know that I will possess it?" God establishes a solemn covenant with Abraham. There are no "ifs" in the formal declaration of Genesis 15:7-18. The purpose of the covenant was to prove to Abraham that God would keep His commitment. If it were dependent upon Abraham's actions it would not have been reconfirmed years later after much sinning, and yet it was reconfirmed to Abraham's offspring in the same manner it was given to Abraham. (See Genesis 50:24-26 and Exodus 2:24; 6:2-8; Psalm 105:8-11; Luke 1:67-75; Hebrews 6:13-18) It guarantees the permanent existence of Israel as a nation and it guarantees Israel's permanent ownership of the promised land.
Given along three lines the Abrahamic covenant includes:
A. Promises to Abraham of numerous posterity (Genesis 17:16); that he would have personal blessing (Genesis 13:14-17; 15:6,18; 24:34-35; John 8:56) that his name would be great (Genesis 12:2) i.e., the three great monotheistic world religions and what part Abraham plays in these religions; and that he would personally be a blessing (Genesis 12:2)
B. Promises of a great nation (Genesis 12:2) which was realized later through Jacob and the twelve tribes. Included in this was the promise of a physical land (Genesis 12:7; 13:15; 15:18-21; 17:7-8)
C. Promises to the entire world through Abraham (Genesis 12:3). Abraham's seed was physically evident in the Jewish nation, but it was also spiritually included in all mankind among those who exercise a Judeo-Christian faith (Genesis 15:6).This was to be fulfilled by Israel's being the channel of divine revelation, the source of prophets and ultimately the blessing of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
. The covenant also included a prophecy of protection in a curse to all who cursed and blessings to all who blessed Israel. The covenant is unconditional in that any generation could avail themselves of the promises only if they were obedient to God, but the ultimate purpose and fulfillment is entirely dependent upon God. He has revealed Himself through Israel, He has blessed Israel, He has provided redemption through Israel, He brought Israel into the promised land. All is dependent upon God.
. The Abrahamic covenant's fulfillment through the ages has given good reason to expect the fulfillment of God's promises - whether to Abraham's physical seed, the Jews, or to his spiritual seed, the Christians.
The Abrahamic Covenant is unconditional for the following reasons:
a. There are no "if's" recorded in the formal establishment of the covenant (Gen 15:7-21) and Galatians 3:15 says nothing can be added to an established covenant.
b. Only God passed between the halves of the animals showing the total dependency is on God not on Abraham or his descendants.
c. God formally declares the covenant in response to Abraham's question asking for assurance that he would possess the land. The covenant was God's confirming proof that Abraham would possess the land he was promised.
d. The Abrahamic Covenant was still in effect after Abraham (and his descendants) had sinned several times.Had it been dependent on their keeping their portion it would have already ceased. Even David believed that it was still in effect (see 1 Chron 16:15-18).
e. Moses told the people that despite their sinfulness God would not forget the covenant He had made with Abraham (Dt 4:25-31).
f. Even though the Jews rejected Jesus Christ, Peter mentions in Acts 3:12-26 that the Covenant was still in effect (even to those who had personally rejected Jesus.)
g. The author of Hebrews specifically states the covenant is part of God's "unchangeableness of His purpose" (6:13-18).
h. Finally, the Abrahamic Covenant included a universal blessing through Abraham's seed. This could not be the case if it depended on man's ability to meet God's standards.
5. Mosaic Covenant Exodus 19:4-6 (YHWH's) 19:8 (Israel's) 20:1-31:18 specifics
. Composed of 613 (365 prohibitions and 248 demands) specific commands probing every area of national life - from personal matters like marriage, sex, hygiene and diet; to public matters like finance, welfare, government and political alliances. The Mosaic Covenant was given by God to Moses to govern His relationship to the people of Israel. This covenant was a temporary modification of the Abrahamic Covenant but does not in any way negate the unconditional Abrahamic Covenant. Its commands were simple, comprehensive and just and can be classified into three areas:
1) The commandments containing the express will of God (Exodus 20:1-26).
2) Judgments relating to the social and civic life of Israel (Ex 21:1-24:11).
3) The ordinances (Ex 24:12-31:18).
Another division of these laws is: The Moral Laws i.e. the 10 commandments; The Civil Laws i.e. the administration of justice and distribution of wealth; and the Ceremonial Laws i.e. regarding sacrifices, worship offerings and cleansing.
The Mosaic Covenant was conditional and, fortunately, temporary, fulfilled to God's satisfaction by Jesus Christ. The effects of this covenant terminated at the foot of Christ's cross at His death, as the veil over the Holy of Holies was synonymously torn apart as the Holy Spirit departed.
The sign of the covenant was the Sabbath.
Of all the commandments which are carried over into the New Testament to the Believer only one is not binding - the command to keep the Sabbath.
The Mosaic Covenant is the most remarkable legal code ever held by any ancient people. The Code of Hammurabi, taught in History, pales in comparison to Exodus and Deuteronomy, given specifically to Israel.
The book of Galatians is written specifically to combat the belief that there is any benefit in keeping the Law (the purpose Gal 3:24 - was to lead us to Christ). Given at Mt. Sinai, the purpose was to teach Israel of God's holiness, His righteous demands and the seriousness of sin and to show the people there was absolutely no way that any one could ever possibly be in a position to save themselves.
In the formal declaration of the covenant (19:5,6) God assured the Israelites that He would do three things IF they would obey Him:
1) He would make them a cherished possession of His own.
2) He would make them a kingdom of priests to mediate God's blessings to
the Gentile nations.
3) He would make them a "holy nation" if they would obey Him.
The death penalty was declared for: murder, adultery, breaking the Sabbath, rebellion against parents, witchcraft, sorcery, spiritism, kidnapping, and sexual perversion (including homosexuality and bestiality).
This was to teach that the wages of sin is death.
- to the nation of Israel - to whom they were ALL given - and their significance to the Church for edification today.
Definition: From the Hebrew berith it is translated "will", "covenant and "testament," and comes from the word translated "to cut". Also from the Greek diatheke. It is mentioned 300 times in Scripture. It is important to note that not all the covenants are mutual agreements i.e., it is not IF you do this THEN I will do that.
A covenant in the strict biblical sense is not a joint obligation but rather a commitment one makes to another. A covenant is a relationship wherein the party making the covenant binds himself to fulfill certain conditions. This was often sworn and invoked in the presence of God to make the promise more solemn and binding (1 Samuel 20:8). When God's name was invoked and the covenant was broken it was considered a heinous sin (Ezekiel 17:12-20).
An example of covenant is marriage (Proverbs 2:17; Malachi 2:14). Covenants were sealed with a gift which was to be looked at and remembered (Genesis 21:30) or attested to by a monument such as planting a tree (Genesis 21:33) or a heap of stones (Genesis 31:52).
Examples of Covenants
Man to Man
Between Relative Equals
As in marriage Proverbs 2:17 and Malachi 2:14
As between Abraham and Abimelech governing water rights in Genesis 21:27.
As between tribes or nations 1 Samuel 11:1.
Between Superior to Subordinate
As when Nebuchadnezzar imposed the covenant on Zedekiah in Ezekiel 17.
God to Man
Since man is not in a position to covenant with God either as a relative equal and since God has not imposed His covenants on man we can see that covenants relating to God in Scripture are rather self-imposed. In this regard God agrees to arrange His providences for the welfare of man.
Examples: God chose Israel to be His nation, adopting the Hebrews to be
His people (Amos 3:2).
God chose to redeem sinful man.
Steps in Covenant Cutting
. 1. Preparation--Since a covenant was meant to be a permanent relationship it was entered into only after much prayer, counsel and deep thought.
. 2. A Witness was sought as a trusted mediator of both sides. A covenant was meant to be a public declaration of intent. Depending on its importance, God was sometimes called upon to witness. Sometimes heaven and earth were the only witnesses.
. 3. Often garments and weapons were exchanged. A garment signified who the individual was i.e. the tribes would wear clothing which would readily be identifiable to others. This kept the parties ever mindful of their commitment.
. 4. The belt or girdle would be exchanged signifying, "My strength is your strength."
. 5. An animal would be split in two and the parties would stand in the midst of the split animal, thus representing as the animal gave up its life, so too, will I give up my life to maintain this covenant. In a mutual covenant both parties would then cut their own wrists, raise their hands into the air and clasp hands while pointing to heaven making God their witness to this agreement. The intermingling of the blood signified the joining of a blood relationship. They would then often cauterize the wound with a hot
branding iron to inflict a noticeable scar which would act as a perpetual reminder.
. 6. Often times names would be exchanged and the parties would refer to themselves as ___________ the friend of ____________.
. 7. Exchange a list of ALL assets and liabilities because as a united, covenanted pair they would each share the other's belongings and burdens.
. 8. A formal exchange of the covenant's blessings and curses was then made in public and an exchange of Mizpah not asking for God's blessing or benediction but asking that Yahweh insure the faithfulness of the covenant.
. 9. Set up the covenant reminder, i.e. a plant, a tree, a heap of stones.
. 10. The covenant meal of bread and wine--This is my body which as you eat it becomes a part of you--this is my blood which as you drink it becomes your blood.
Covenants of the Bible
1. Edenic Covenant (Genesis 1:26-31; 2:16-17)
. God provided everything necessary for human existence in the Garden of Eden when man was innocent of all sin.There was only one simple prohibition, "...but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat."
The covenant was, "I will provide everything you will need as long as you do not eat of the one tree."
. Man's life in Eden was idyllic. Living in a perfect environment he had congenial employment and perfect companionship. Even God came and communed with him. Adam was appointed as a gardner and a guardian. He was told to dress and keep the garden as well as be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth.The prohibition was a test of his loyalty and love. The test itself tells us man was created a morally accountable creature responsible for his actions and answerable to God.This disproves the popular notion that given the perfect environment man will behave in a morally acceptable way.
. The Edenic covenant is one of two covenants that is conditional.
2. Adamic Covenant (Genesis 3:16-19)
. This covenant is unconditional in which God declared to Adam what man's lot in life will be now that sin is in the world. The conditions of this covenant will exist until the Kingdom Age (Romans 8:21). There is no appeal and there is no human responsibility involved.The outcome of the arrangement is entirely based on God and His sovereign control.
. Elements of the covenant are the cursing of the serpent used by Satan (Gen 3:14; Romans 16:20; 2 Cor 11:3, 14; Rev 12:9) the promise of a Redeemer (Gen 3:15). We see in this prophecy both advents of Christ. The multiplied sorrow and pain of women in childbirth and motherhood is also mentioned; prior to the fall woman's position in comparison to the man's was subordinate due to Adam's divinely ordained headship, after the fall firmer headship was invested in man due to woman's responding to the serpent. Man would henceforth earn his living by sweat (Gen 2:15); man's life would now be filled with sorrow and ultimate death (Gen 3:19; Eph 2:5). Perhaps the most significant curse was the spiritual death which Adam and Eve experienced "on the day they ate of the fruit." A flaming cherub was placed as a testimonial to the restriction of the covenant.
3. Noahic Covenant (Genesis 9:1-18)
. This covenant repeats some of the features of the Adamic but also adds the principle of human government as a means of curbing sin. Like the Adamic it is unconditional and it reveals God's purpose for the human race subsequent to Noah.
. Provisions included the establishment of captial punishment for taking another man's life, thus the institution of government is ordained as society was called upon to execute judgment; the normal order of nature is reaffirmed. (Man's dominance over the animals), and God restored nature's stability; man is given permission to eat the flesh of animals (Genesis 9:3-4) which is evidently a new allowance. The covenant with Noah also included prophecy concerning the descendents of his three sons designating Shem as the godly line through whom the Messiah would come; that world power would rest in the hands of Japeth (although at first this was not the case i.e. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon were Hamitic/Shemitic) and that the Canaanite races would come under God's special curse.
. The seal of the covenant was the rainbow.
4. Abrahamic Covenant (Genesis 12:1-4; 13:14-17; 15:1-18; 17:1-8) Reconfirmed through Isaac (Genesis 26:2-5) Jacob (Genesis 28:1-4, 12-15)
This covenant is absolutely unconditional!!, is everlasting (Genesis 17:7) and is one of the most profound in Scripture.
The sign of the covenant is circumcision. In response to the question, "How may I know that I will possess it?" God establishes a solemn covenant with Abraham. There are no "ifs" in the formal declaration of Genesis 15:7-18. The purpose of the covenant was to prove to Abraham that God would keep His commitment. If it were dependent upon Abraham's actions it would not have been reconfirmed years later after much sinning, and yet it was reconfirmed to Abraham's offspring in the same manner it was given to Abraham. (See Genesis 50:24-26 and Exodus 2:24; 6:2-8; Psalm 105:8-11; Luke 1:67-75; Hebrews 6:13-18) It guarantees the permanent existence of Israel as a nation and it guarantees Israel's permanent ownership of the promised land.
Given along three lines the Abrahamic covenant includes:
A. Promises to Abraham of numerous posterity (Genesis 17:16); that he would have personal blessing (Genesis 13:14-17; 15:6,18; 24:34-35; John 8:56) that his name would be great (Genesis 12:2) i.e., the three great monotheistic world religions and what part Abraham plays in these religions; and that he would personally be a blessing (Genesis 12:2)
B. Promises of a great nation (Genesis 12:2) which was realized later through Jacob and the twelve tribes. Included in this was the promise of a physical land (Genesis 12:7; 13:15; 15:18-21; 17:7-8)
C. Promises to the entire world through Abraham (Genesis 12:3). Abraham's seed was physically evident in the Jewish nation, but it was also spiritually included in all mankind among those who exercise a Judeo-Christian faith (Genesis 15:6).This was to be fulfilled by Israel's being the channel of divine revelation, the source of prophets and ultimately the blessing of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.
. The covenant also included a prophecy of protection in a curse to all who cursed and blessings to all who blessed Israel. The covenant is unconditional in that any generation could avail themselves of the promises only if they were obedient to God, but the ultimate purpose and fulfillment is entirely dependent upon God. He has revealed Himself through Israel, He has blessed Israel, He has provided redemption through Israel, He brought Israel into the promised land. All is dependent upon God.
. The Abrahamic covenant's fulfillment through the ages has given good reason to expect the fulfillment of God's promises - whether to Abraham's physical seed, the Jews, or to his spiritual seed, the Christians.
The Abrahamic Covenant is unconditional for the following reasons:
a. There are no "if's" recorded in the formal establishment of the covenant (Gen 15:7-21) and Galatians 3:15 says nothing can be added to an established covenant.
b. Only God passed between the halves of the animals showing the total dependency is on God not on Abraham or his descendants.
c. God formally declares the covenant in response to Abraham's question asking for assurance that he would possess the land. The covenant was God's confirming proof that Abraham would possess the land he was promised.
d. The Abrahamic Covenant was still in effect after Abraham (and his descendants) had sinned several times.Had it been dependent on their keeping their portion it would have already ceased. Even David believed that it was still in effect (see 1 Chron 16:15-18).
e. Moses told the people that despite their sinfulness God would not forget the covenant He had made with Abraham (Dt 4:25-31).
f. Even though the Jews rejected Jesus Christ, Peter mentions in Acts 3:12-26 that the Covenant was still in effect (even to those who had personally rejected Jesus.)
g. The author of Hebrews specifically states the covenant is part of God's "unchangeableness of His purpose" (6:13-18).
h. Finally, the Abrahamic Covenant included a universal blessing through Abraham's seed. This could not be the case if it depended on man's ability to meet God's standards.
5. Mosaic Covenant Exodus 19:4-6 (YHWH's) 19:8 (Israel's) 20:1-31:18 specifics
. Composed of 613 (365 prohibitions and 248 demands) specific commands probing every area of national life - from personal matters like marriage, sex, hygiene and diet; to public matters like finance, welfare, government and political alliances. The Mosaic Covenant was given by God to Moses to govern His relationship to the people of Israel. This covenant was a temporary modification of the Abrahamic Covenant but does not in any way negate the unconditional Abrahamic Covenant. Its commands were simple, comprehensive and just and can be classified into three areas:
1) The commandments containing the express will of God (Exodus 20:1-26).
2) Judgments relating to the social and civic life of Israel (Ex 21:1-24:11).
3) The ordinances (Ex 24:12-31:18).
Another division of these laws is: The Moral Laws i.e. the 10 commandments; The Civil Laws i.e. the administration of justice and distribution of wealth; and the Ceremonial Laws i.e. regarding sacrifices, worship offerings and cleansing.
The Mosaic Covenant was conditional and, fortunately, temporary, fulfilled to God's satisfaction by Jesus Christ. The effects of this covenant terminated at the foot of Christ's cross at His death, as the veil over the Holy of Holies was synonymously torn apart as the Holy Spirit departed.
The sign of the covenant was the Sabbath.
Of all the commandments which are carried over into the New Testament to the Believer only one is not binding - the command to keep the Sabbath.
The Mosaic Covenant is the most remarkable legal code ever held by any ancient people. The Code of Hammurabi, taught in History, pales in comparison to Exodus and Deuteronomy, given specifically to Israel.
The book of Galatians is written specifically to combat the belief that there is any benefit in keeping the Law (the purpose Gal 3:24 - was to lead us to Christ). Given at Mt. Sinai, the purpose was to teach Israel of God's holiness, His righteous demands and the seriousness of sin and to show the people there was absolutely no way that any one could ever possibly be in a position to save themselves.
In the formal declaration of the covenant (19:5,6) God assured the Israelites that He would do three things IF they would obey Him:
1) He would make them a cherished possession of His own.
2) He would make them a kingdom of priests to mediate God's blessings to
the Gentile nations.
3) He would make them a "holy nation" if they would obey Him.
The death penalty was declared for: murder, adultery, breaking the Sabbath, rebellion against parents, witchcraft, sorcery, spiritism, kidnapping, and sexual perversion (including homosexuality and bestiality).
This was to teach that the wages of sin is death.
Jul 16, 2019 12:08:37 #
Jul 16, 2019 23:04:33 #
Thanks for glancing at the post, at least, preliminarily, bahmer, the different covenants God established with men have a lot of history and debate over the years, centuries and millennium, and even now, between different denominations, as to which are now in effect and for whom.
bahmer wrote:
Very interesting there Zemirah thanks for that discussion.
Jul 17, 2019 02:40:34 #
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