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Do you take the pledge? I wonder.....
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Jul 11, 2019 12:41:16   #
Louie27 (a regular here)
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
For 16 years, most adult Americans went to school.

And after a moment of silence, all the students in one voice said,

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag
Of the United States of America,
and to the Republic, for which it stands,
One nation, Under God, Indivisible
For liberty and Justice for all..."

I wonder how many Americans, still take that pledge....


In the military, the oath was as follows:

"I, Do solemnly swear, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States
against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of officers appointed over me....."

Has anything changed, do you still pledge alliencience, will you still take the oath? I wonder...
For 16 years, most adult Americans went to school.... (show quote)


I would take that oath at any time and proud to do it.

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Jul 11, 2019 12:43:05   #
Larry the Legend (a regular here)
 
Louie27 wrote:
I would take that oath at any time and proud to do it.

We did it for years at school. Had Old Glory sitting in the corner and turned to face her, hand on heart, every morning before starting the day. I suppose that would be considered 'propaganda' nowadays...

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Jul 11, 2019 14:18:27   #
badbobby (a regular here)
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
For 16 years, most adult Americans went to school.

And after a moment of silence, all the students in one voice said,

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag
Of the United States of America,
and to the Republic, for which it stands,
One nation, Under God, Indivisible
For liberty and Justice for all..."

I wonder how many Americans, still take that pledge....


In the military, the oath was as follows:

"I, Do solemnly swear, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States
against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of officers appointed over me....."

Has anything changed, do you still pledge alliencience, will you still take the oath? I wonder...
For 16 years, most adult Americans went to school.... (show quote)

forever
my country,right or wrong


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Jul 11, 2019 14:20:43   #
Radiance3 (a regular here)
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
Nope, sorry, that's dead wrong. The Constitution delineates the powers delegated to the Federal government and establishes a framework for that government to function and exercise those powers. State and individual rights, privileges and obligations are not delineated in the Constitution because the Constitution is predated by those rights, privileges and obligations. The Constitution exists because some of those powers were delegated, not the other way around.

We are sovereigns, not subjects.
Nope, sorry, that's dead wrong. The Constitution ... (show quote)

==================
Larry, where in the world did I say we are subjects? You are putting the word into my mouth. Your interpretation of my statement is totally wrong. I agree with you, we are sovereigns. But I did NOT say SUBJECTS!

Good day!

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Jul 11, 2019 14:31:58   #
Larry the Legend (a regular here)
 
Radiance3 wrote:
The constitution summarizes all our rights, privileges, and duties

It does not. The flow of authority is exactly the opposite. The Constitution gets its authority from us, not the other way around. subjects get their rights and privileges from legal enactment. Sovereigns are born with them.

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Jul 11, 2019 14:35:21   #
woodguru (a regular here)
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
For 16 years, most adult Americans went to school.

And after a moment of silence, all the students in one voice said,

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag
Of the United States of America,
and to the Republic, for which it stands,
One nation, Under God, Indivisible
For liberty and Justice for all..."

I wonder how many Americans, still take that pledge....


In the military, the oath was as follows:

"I, Do solemnly swear, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States
against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of officers appointed over me....."

Has anything changed, do you still pledge alliencience, will you still take the oath? I wonder...
For 16 years, most adult Americans went to school.... (show quote)


And how many kids in school have a clue what they are pledging?

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Jul 11, 2019 14:45:01   #
Larry the Legend (a regular here)
 
woodguru wrote:
And how many kids in school have a clue what they are pledging?

The language is plain enough...

"I pledge my allegiance". In other words, I ally my loyalties.
"To the flag of the United States of America". To the symbol of the greatest nation on earth.
"And to the Republic for which it stands". And to the greatest nation on Earth.
"One nation" Together.
"Under God" But not above God.
"Individual" Standing alone.
"With liberty and justice for all" As long as it adheres to its founding principles.

Are your children too stupid to understand that?

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Jul 11, 2019 15:11:28   #
Radiance3 (a regular here)
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
It does not. The flow of authority is exactly the opposite. The Constitution gets its authority from us, not the other way around. subjects get their rights and privileges from legal enactment. Sovereigns are born with them.


==============
That was what I have been writing. Read my prior statements. From the "consent of the governed". I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

But anyways, I agree that authority comes from us, the citizens. But you know what? You'll be surprised that the LIBS are trying to take away the authority now. They call it racist. E.g. They refuse to include citizenship Census question. They refuse to seal the border, but allow millions of illegal invaders that terrorize the citizens.

Where is the citizens authority vested by the constitution?

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Jul 11, 2019 15:52:37   #
Larry the Legend (a regular here)
 
Radiance3 wrote:
==============
That was what I have been writing. Read my prior statements. From the "consent of the governed". I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say.

But anyways, I agree that authority comes from us, the citizens. But you know what? You'll be surprised that the LIBS are trying to take away the authority now. They call it racist. E.g. They refuse to include citizenship Census question. They refuse to seal the border, but allow millions of illegal invaders that terrorize the citizens.

Where is the citizens authority vested by the constitution?
============== br That was what I have been writin... (show quote)


I think you misunderstand the purpose of the constitution. It isn't there to tell us what our rights and privileges are, it is there to limit government, in writing, to their proper role, and nothing more. Unfortunately, that role has been stretched and pulled in so many zany ways that it no longer resembles its intended size and authorities. Even the wisdom of the founders was insufficient to rein in government, but that does not change the fact that our rights and authorities are God-given and do not devolve from anything remotely government related.

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Jul 11, 2019 16:21:07   #
Radiance3 (a regular here)
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
I think you misunderstand the purpose of the constitution. It isn't there to tell us what our rights and privileges are, it is there to limit government, in writing, to their proper role, and nothing more. Unfortunately, that role has been stretched and pulled in so many zany ways that it no longer resembles its intended size and authorities. Even the wisdom of the founders was insufficient to rein in government, but that does not change the fact that our rights and authorities are God-given and do not devolve from anything remotely government related.
I think you misunderstand the purpose of the const... (show quote)


=================
I think you are missing lots, and interpreting my statements incorrectly.

This is how I interpreted it on all my prior statements at OPP.
The Constitution is the supreme law of the nation.
It establishes the basic rights of the citizens.
One of that for example is the Amendments on the Bill of Rights.
It is the foundation of legal authority, along the governance of which the citizens of the United States of America can design individual contributions.
It is the Framework of the federal government of the United States.
The primary purpose of the Constitution is to provide a sense of direction to the organization of the three branches of the U.S. Government

"The Declaration of Independence:" an EXCEPT: Our rights.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Good day

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Jul 11, 2019 17:01:48   #
Larry the Legend (a regular here)
 
Radiance3 wrote:
The Constitution is the supreme law of the nation.

It is the founding document of our Constitutional Republic. It is wholly binding, on the federal government. Some portions are also binding on the States. I would not exactly describe it as the 'supreme law of the nation', but the argument is there.

Radiance3 wrote:
It establishes the basic rights of the citizens.
One of that for example is the Amendments on the Bill of Rights.

Ever notice how the Bill of Rights reads like a list of prohibitions on government? For instance:
"Congress shall make no law..."
"...shall not be infringed."
"No Soldier shall..."
"...shall not be violated..."
Etc...
It establishes nothing, it generally prohibits much that tyrants are fond of.

Radiance3 wrote:
It is the foundation of legal authority, along the governance of which the citizens of the United States of America can design individual contributions.

I don't understand that, sorry.

Radiance3 wrote:
It is the Framework of the federal government of the United States.

Yes, it is! That is the scaffolding upon which all our federal activities have been based since 1789. Every law, regulation, tax, whatever, is supposed to point to a specific authority delegated in the constitution. Unfortunately, our so-called lawmakers have drifted widely from that authority many, many times, and gotten away with it.

Radiance3 wrote:
The primary purpose of the Constitution is to provide a sense of direction to the organization of the three branches of the U.S. Government

That, too is absolutely correct, except that it is not a 'sense of direction'. These are not 'maybes', or 'suggestions', they are instructions, laid out plain and simple. A road map to Constitutional government.

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Jul 11, 2019 18:03:17   #
Radiance3 (a regular here)
 
Larry the Legend wrote:
That, too is absolutely correct, except that it is not a 'sense of direction'. These are not 'maybes', or 'suggestions', they are instructions, laid out plain and simple. A road map to Constitutional government.


=============
Please read again what I've written. I did not say "maybes", or "suggestions." You are defining and changing the words and meaning of what I've written.

Larry, I think you missed the complete purposes of the Constitution. Read again what I've written. You've concentrated on one element, but the most basics and important provisions of the constitution you've missed them.Honestly lawyers could interpret what I have written properly. I am not a lawyer, I am a CPA, but have substantial backgrounds about our laws and the constitution.

Well you can defend your own ways, I must defend what I have stated. Thank you. No more argument. Good day.

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Jul 11, 2019 18:30:16   #
milamber
 
Ranger7374 wrote:
For 16 years, most adult Americans went to school.

And after a moment of silence, all the students in one voice said,

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag
Of the United States of America,
and to the Republic, for which it stands,
One nation, Under God, Indivisible
For liberty and Justice for all..."

I wonder how many Americans, still take that pledge....


In the military, the oath was as follows:

"I, Do solemnly swear, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States
against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same, and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States, and the orders of officers appointed over me....."

Has anything changed, do you still pledge alliencience, will you still take the oath? I wonder...
For 16 years, most adult Americans went to school.... (show quote)


yes I did and still do, and the oath in 76 for life. And my youngest son after me.

| Reply
Jul 11, 2019 19:44:21   #
maryjane (a regular here)
 
teabag09 wrote:
I will and do!!! Mike


Me, too!

| Reply
Jul 11, 2019 21:40:36   #
Ranger7374 (a regular here)
 
maryjane wrote:
Me, too!


I haven't said the pledge in a long time, I wrote: "For Liberty and Justice for all" and actually it is, "With Liberty and Justice for all.", I would like to make that correction.

Justice and Liberty, wow! what a concept.

What is Justice?

Caesar Augustus, first presented the god, Justice to the world. A female goddess, who was blind, who carried a sword and scales. The evidence would be weighed in the scales of justice. Centuries after Roman had fallen, the French added Prudence. Prudence leads Justice. Since Justice is blind, Justice can be mistaken, but Prudence leads Justice by use of reason.

If Justice and Prudence are bound, then neither goddess can render true judgement. Therefore-Liberty is required. Through Prudence, Justice, and Liberty, a true judgement can be established. For this reason the Constitution of the United States, took from the powers of the earth, certain powers from the people, to establish Justice, Prudence, and Liberty.

Three virtues embraced by the United States from the founding, establish the people's protection of Liberty, Prudence, and Justice.

As, I stated before, Justice was officially established by the Roman Emperor Caesar Augustus. Pax Romana was the reign of Caesar Augustus--that is peace in Rome.

The Romans learned from the Greeks. The Greeks taught the Romans the philosophies of Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, and the concept of Justice was realized. Rome recognized Justice but justice was around longer than Rome. "Abel's lawyer petitions the Lord Almighty for Justice day and night for Cain killing him."-this is found in Genesis, and alluded to in Revelations. The Prophets taught Justice.

But Justice as a twin sister, injustice. If God is seeking to be known by man, and the devil is seeking to be unknown by man, then Justice shall be known to the world and injustice hidden from the actions of men.

But in the light of God, through the liberty of inalienable rights, injustice is known. As Moses explains in Genesis, God separated the light from the dark. He separated justice from injustice, thus blessing justice.

But justice alone, who is blind, cannot establish judgement alone. Through the philosophies of the prophets, and the Greek philosophers, Prudence was examined. Through reason, wisdom can assist Justice in reaching judgement. This wisdom is called Prudence, as was explained through Jesus Christ. Prudence comes from the reasoned justice through wisdom. Thus, Christ fulfilled not only the Law of Moses, but also by default found the holes in the Greek Philosophers and filled them too.

Centuries after the death of Christ, human beings finally understood Prudence and Justice, but Prudence can be ignored and justice can be ignored, leading to all kinds of injustice. Until the immortal words of Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence established where the powers of Prudence and Justice come from. The powers come from you and I.

Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, established political justice, while Moses established religious justice. But moral justice was still in question. For these men, established two very different philosophies of justice. The punishment thereof, is that of death. Between the Greek philosophers, and the prophets, mankind learned of Justice and prudence, because the joining of the two philosophies through Caesar Augustus established a new form of thinking. One based on both reason and religion. Superstition was taken out of the thinking. Thus, the gods of old died away, leaving just one God, that is the God of Israel.

Make no mistake, Egypt and Babylon, along with Persia, and the orient contribute to the philosophy.

However, what man did in the beginning with the realization that destiny is in our hands and no others, decided to protect Liberty, Justice, and Prudence for a few. During the Middle ages a new form of slavery, in the form of serfdom was created. A caste system of peasant and Lord became a system that created a monarchy. Charlemagne was crowned king of all the Empire, during the Holy Roman Empire. Charlemagne is the father of all kings and queens of Europe. From the Czar of Russia to the queen of England, Charlemagne was the absolute Lord of Europa.

During this time of brutal slavery and war, came forth a period of time where man becomes enlightened to destroy the evils of old. The first revolution against slavery occured with the Lutheran movement in Germany. This would spread to England at the same time, the Muslims tried to overthrow the Greek-Coptic-Christians in Asia Minor. Kings and Queens of Europe would go on four crusades to free the people of Asia Minor. The bitter brutal wars ensued. Destroying the capital of Christendom, Constantinople. The final reminisce of the Roman Empire was destroyed in the fourth Crusade.

Europe then erupts in to a discovery in all things. Science, Religion, and Political Science, or should I say Reason, Political Reason, and Religion. Soon troops return from the fourth Crusade back home to a home that was destroyed by human greed and lust for power. These soldiers, then organized the peasants and established the first document of Liberty. That would be the Magna Carta.

Soon thereafter, the colonies, born on the idea of a better life, would soon establish once and for all, Prudence(Justice by way of reason), Justice, and Liberty. Soon the Immortal words of the Pledge of Allegiance would be established.

The Constitution and all the amendments have baptised the rights and virtues of old. Slavery will be destroyed by this Constitution, the amendments, and by the growing powers of the earth.

The oaths and the Pledge, both establish the ideals of Justice and Liberty but show prudence in the words.

It is reasonable and clear. The Pledge, is similar to the Profession of Faith. Both of which I declare. Through my faith in God, and my use of reason, both pledges lead me to the oath I took. From both I gain the powers that are inalienable to me as a person. These powers that the earth and the Creator distilled in me from my birth, is a right granted by Life. But I yielding the powers that the Creator gave me, are only ensured by the documents we as men made holy. Among them are the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, through the Bill of Rights to every amendment there after.

Me, as keeper of the powers of the earth, have a right to choose my destiny. You too, if you are human, have been tasked as a keeper of the powers of the earth, and have the same right to choose your destiny. Together we form a force that is unbeatable. As long as we can use our power in prudence and wisdom, and as long as we are free to disagree with each other, in a logical reasonable, way. We can thus, overcome any problem we face.

No idea, that promotes liberty and justice in a prudent wise way is not a bad idea and should be heard. But when ideas are forced upon the free, then the free will rebel. Conservatives know a lot about this. It is only now that the liberals are learning about this. The progressives are doing to the liberals what the liberals did to the conservatives. I for one, feel that if we conservatives just sit back and watch, we will see the liberals and the progressives destroy each other, like the Nephilim did to each other.

However, we conservatives will be haunted by the war between the liberals and progressives. This is why we must remember the wisdom that is contained herein.

Live free and keep America Reasonable.

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