Why do Dems want the citizenship question removed? It’s actually quite simple. The House has 435 Representatives. By Law that’s the set amount. A state gets Representatives per number...

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

It’s actually quite simple. The House has 435 Representatives. By Law that’s the set amount. A state gets Representatives per number of population. I won’t post the formula here but for discussion purposes just know that 700 and some thousand gets a state a Representative. California has over 2,800,000 i******s. That’s four extra seats stolen by i******s.
Now you know why Dems want so many i******s.

bahmer

JFlorio wrote:

It’s actually quite simple. The House has 435 Representatives. By Law that’s the set amount. A state gets Representatives per number of population. I won’t post the formula here but for discussion purposes just know that 700 and some thousand gets a state a Representative. California has over 2,800,000 i******s. That’s four extra seats stolen by i******s.
Now you know why Dems want so many i******s.

Amen and Amen it is simple math to them. Plus their base has been deserting them and this is the only way that they can grow.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

bahmer wrote:

Amen and Amen it is simple math to them. Plus their base has been deserting them and this is the only way that they can grow.

Exactly. I believe it is theft of resources and representation for American citizens.

Kevyn

JFlorio wrote:

It’s actually quite simple. The House has 435 Representatives. By Law that’s the set amount. A state gets Representatives per number of population. I won’t post the formula here but for discussion purposes just know that 700 and some thousand gets a state a Representative. California has over 2,800,000 i******s. That’s four extra seats stolen by i******s.
Now you know why Dems want so many i******s.

Representation is by population not citizenship or eligible v**ers. Non citizen residents children and people in prison are all counted. What is important is an accurate count. The citizenship question was specifically added to discourage som of them from complying with the census thus deliberately making it inaccurate to the detriment of Hispanics and people of color.

bahmer

JFlorio wrote:

Exactly. I believe it is theft of resources and representation for American citizens.

I read somewhere that Trump is going to mail it out anyway so we will have to wait and see.

JFlorio Loc: Seminole Florida

Kevyn wrote:

Representation is by population not citizenship or eligible v**ers. Non citizen residents children and people in prison are all counted. What is important is an accurate count. The citizenship question was specifically added to discourage som of them from complying with the census thus deliberately making it inaccurate to the detriment of Hispanics and people of color.

BS. Representation should be counted by citizens only. Why should i******s be Represented? I******s or non-citizens have no business being represented. California has way more i******s than Wisconsin. So the illegal population "steals" Representation from other states. Of course since the majority of Americans want the citizenship question asked you are against it. There is no good reason to count i******s. Maybe if they couldn't get Representation and or public benefits they'd get the hell out of the country,,, and as a plus, d**g you with em lil guy.
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/451398-poll-majority-say-the-census-should-be-able-to-include-citizenship

The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

Kevyn wrote:

Representation is by population not citizenship or eligible v**ers. Non citizen residents children and people in prison are all counted. What is important is an accurate count. The citizenship question was specifically added to discourage som of them from complying with the census thus deliberately making it inaccurate to the detriment of Hispanics and people of color.

Wrong as usual... I guess this needs to be explained to all you lefties separately so...

”When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another."

”Thus begins the American Declaration of Independence, and it lays claim to the fact that the "people" of the United States are distinct from "peoples" elsewhere.

Further, the legitimacy of government is rooted in the consent of the people to be governed. Therein lies the fundamental fact of citizenship.

The Supreme Court should remember these facts when it rules on pending litigation over whether to include a question about citizenship on the next census.

The Constitution, too, recognizes these basic propositions. Section 2 of the 14th Amendment provides, "Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed."

Why exclude "Indians not taxed"? Because they were not citizens, which is to say, not part of the body politic giving their consent to the government. Representatives were, therefore, to be chosen by "the consent of the governed," to return to the phrase used by the Declaration, and allocated based on the population ("persons in each state" to be so governed.)

Citizenship is thus at the core of representation. It is therefore not surprising that a question about citizenship status was part of nearly every decennial census conducted from 1820 to 1950; that it was asked on the long census form from 1960 to 2000; and that it has been part of the annual American Community Survey ever since that survey's inception in 2005.

To be sure, the Constitution says to count "persons," though the qualifier "in the states" might well be properly understood to limit that to citizens. We would not, for example, count every "person" who just happened to be visiting "in the states" when the census was conducted such as would have been the case if the 1984 Los Angeles summer Olympics (with its record-setting attendance of 5.8 million) had instead been held in 1980. To include those "persons" in the census would have given to California several additional seats in Congress and p**********l e*******l v**es.

For the first two centuries of our nation's history, there was not much impact between counting "all persons" and counting "all persons in the states" who were citizens, because wh**ever deviation between total population and citizen population existed was probably evenly enough distributed so as not to effect representation.

That has changed in recent decades, however, as the scope of non-citizen population, and particularly i*****l i*********n population varies dramatically from one state to another and even from one congressional district to another.

To allow non-citizen i*****l i*******ts to determine representation undermines the very notion of "consent of the governed," as more representatives would then be allocated to states with large numbers of i*****l i*******ts, diluting the v****g strength of citizens in other states.

Dilution of v****g rights of citizens is also at the heart of the litigation over Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross's decision to restore a citizenship question to the Census — a question that had been removed from the 2010 Census during the Obama administration. Citizenship data is extremely helpful to v****g rights litigation, but the Annual Community Survey simply does not provide data at a precise, precinct level to be of much use. The decennial census, sent to every household, would.

Those challenging Ross's decision have hypothesized that some households with non-citizens residing there (particularly those not lawfully present in the United States) would not return the census form if it included a citizenship question, and that would lead to an undercount that would skew representation.

This speculation piles inference upon inference that is unlikely to have the kind of impact the challengers claim, particularly in light of the Census Bureau's long-standing historical practice of extensive follow-up efforts to ensure as accurate a count as possible.

What is really at stake, then, in the litigation pending before the Supreme Court, is a challenge to the basic concepts of sovereignty, of citizenship, and of the consent of the governed. The rank partisanship of the challenge to Secretary Ross's decision to restore a question about citizenship, so that the data necessary to determine not just the fate of future v****g rights litigation but of basic representational government cannot be obtained, should be seen for what it is and handily rejected.

The social compact of "We the People," the foundation of our system of government, demands no less.”

By: Dr. Eastman

(He is the Chairman of the Board of the National Organization for Marriage. He is the Henry Salvatori Professor of Law and Community Service at the Dale E. Fowler School of Law at Chapman University, and the founder of the Claremont Institute's Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence, co-counsel with the ActRight Legal Foundation on the NOM v. IRS litigation.)

Lonewolf

No one has to answer it

The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

Lonewolf wrote:

No one has to answer it

Not smart.

The Census Bureau has a plan for this.

The Wall Street Journal reported that, in anticipation of this possibility, “[The Census Bureau] plans to mine immigration, Social Security and other state and federal records to check accuracy, and perhaps even change answers.”

https://www.fedsmith.com/2018/04/04/census-bureau-will-checking-answers-citizenship-question/

badbob85037

JFlorio wrote:

It’s actually quite simple. The House has 435 Representatives. By Law that’s the set amount. A state gets Representatives per number of population. I won’t post the formula here but for discussion purposes just know that 700 and some thousand gets a state a Representative. California has over 2,800,000 i******s. That’s four extra seats stolen by i******s.
Now you know why Dems want so many i******s.

Now divided that by 22 million and you can see why the Supreme Court isn't the only branch of government you can trust and a democRat has something on Roberts. This ruling is as out of step with the Constitution as the one on the 'Affordable' Care Act. Letting government murder it's SUBJECTS for twice the cost.

Fit2BTied Loc: Texas

Kevyn wrote:

Representation is by population not citizenship or eligible v**ers. Non citizen residents children and people in prison are all counted. What is important is an accurate count. The citizenship question was specifically added to discourage som of them from complying with the census thus deliberately making it inaccurate to the detriment of Hispanics and people of color.

You're breakin my heart Kevyn(with a Y)

Fit2BTied Loc: Texas

The Critical Critic wrote:

Wrong as usual... I guess this needs to be explained to all you lefties separately so...

”When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another."

”Thus begins the American Declaration of Independence, and it lays claim to the fact that the "people" of the United States are distinct from "peoples" elsewhere.

Further, the legitimacy of government is rooted in the consent of the people to be governed. Therein lies the fundamental fact of citizenship.

The Supreme Court should remember these facts when it rules on pending litigation over whether to include a question about citizenship on the next census.

The Constitution, too, recognizes these basic propositions. Section 2 of the 14th Amendment provides, "Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed."

Why exclude "Indians not taxed"? Because they were not citizens, which is to say, not part of the body politic giving their consent to the government. Representatives were, therefore, to be chosen by "the consent of the governed," to return to the phrase used by the Declaration, and allocated based on the population ("persons in each state" to be so governed.)

Citizenship is thus at the core of representation. It is therefore not surprising that a question about citizenship status was part of nearly every decennial census conducted from 1820 to 1950; that it was asked on the long census form from 1960 to 2000; and that it has been part of the annual American Community Survey ever since that survey's inception in 2005.

To be sure, the Constitution says to count "persons," though the qualifier "in the states" might well be properly understood to limit that to citizens. We would not, for example, count every "person" who just happened to be visiting "in the states" when the census was conducted such as would have been the case if the 1984 Los Angeles summer Olympics (with its record-setting attendance of 5.8 million) had instead been held in 1980. To include those "persons" in the census would have given to California several additional seats in Congress and p**********l e*******l v**es.

For the first two centuries of our nation's history, there was not much impact between counting "all persons" and counting "all persons in the states" who were citizens, because wh**ever deviation between total population and citizen population existed was probably evenly enough distributed so as not to effect representation.

That has changed in recent decades, however, as the scope of non-citizen population, and particularly i*****l i*********n population varies dramatically from one state to another and even from one congressional district to another.

To allow non-citizen i*****l i*******ts to determine representation undermines the very notion of "consent of the governed," as more representatives would then be allocated to states with large numbers of i*****l i*******ts, diluting the v****g strength of citizens in other states.

Dilution of v****g rights of citizens is also at the heart of the litigation over Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross's decision to restore a citizenship question to the Census — a question that had been removed from the 2010 Census during the Obama administration. Citizenship data is extremely helpful to v****g rights litigation, but the Annual Community Survey simply does not provide data at a precise, precinct level to be of much use. The decennial census, sent to every household, would.

Those challenging Ross's decision have hypothesized that some households with non-citizens residing there (particularly those not lawfully present in the United States) would not return the census form if it included a citizenship question, and that would lead to an undercount that would skew representation.

This speculation piles inference upon inference that is unlikely to have the kind of impact the challengers claim, particularly in light of the Census Bureau's long-standing historical practice of extensive follow-up efforts to ensure as accurate a count as possible.

What is really at stake, then, in the litigation pending before the Supreme Court, is a challenge to the basic concepts of sovereignty, of citizenship, and of the consent of the governed. The rank partisanship of the challenge to Secretary Ross's decision to restore a question about citizenship, so that the data necessary to determine not just the fate of future v****g rights litigation but of basic representational government cannot be obtained, should be seen for what it is and handily rejected.

The social compact of "We the People," the foundation of our system of government, demands no less.”

By: Dr. Eastman

(He is the Chairman of the Board of the National Organization for Marriage. He is the Henry Salvatori Professor of Law and Community Service at the Dale E. Fowler School of Law at Chapman University, and the founder of the Claremont Institute's Center for Constitutional Jurisprudence, co-counsel with the ActRight Legal Foundation on the NOM v. IRS litigation.)

Wrong as usual... I guess this needs to be explain... (show quote)

THAT was epic. Mic drop! Thank you! God Bless America on this Independence Day!

Kevyn

JFlorio wrote:

BS. Representation should be counted by citizens o... (show quote)

Children can’t v**e should they be excluded? Is a state with more children “steeling” representation from other states? How about states who have more people in prison or ineligible to v**e for felony convictions should they lose representation? Besides undocumented residents are still counted the question just attempts to have them undercounted for political gain.

Lonewolf

Kevyn wrote:

Children can’t v**e should they be excluded? Is a state with more children “steeling” representation from other states? How about states who have mor people in prison or ineligible to v**e for felony convictions should they lose representation? Besides undocumented residents are still counted the question just attempts to have them undercounted for political gain.

The Critical Critic Loc: Turtle Island

Fit2BTied wrote:

THAT was epic. Mic drop! Thank you! God Bless America on this Independence Day!

You’re welcome. And YES!!!!! God bless America and every citizen, and every legal permanent resident.

Happy Independence Day to you and yours!