One Political PlazaSM - Home of politics
A question for all you conservative Christians
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Page: <<prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 23 next>>
May 15, 2019 08:27:21   #
4430 (a regular here)
 
whitnebrat wrote:
The question is as follows: As a practicing Christian, can you support both anti-abortion and capital punishment at the same time?


Yes I can !

You are comparing apples to oranges !

Take John Wayne Gacy (March 17, 1942 - May 10, 1994) was an American serial killer and rapist who sexually assaulted, tortured and murdered at least 33 teenage boys and young men between 1972 and 1978 in Cook County, Illinois (a part of metropolitan Chicago).

Now take murdering an innocence unborn baby and allowing a baby born alive after a botched abortion that is left to die while crying and or turned face down in a solution till it's dead !

There is a very BIG difference !

SO Absolutely YES I can support both !

| Reply
May 15, 2019 08:30:39   #
Morgan (a regular here)
 
whitnebrat wrote:
The question is as follows: As a practicing Christian, can you support both anti-abortion and capital punishment at the same time?
It would seem that there is a fundamental conflict between those two viewpoints. On one hand we have the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" (KJV Exodus 20:13), and on the other hand you have the Biblical imperative of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth."(KJV Exodus 21:23-25)
To my way of thinking, you can't have it both ways. I have to give the Catholic church credit for their viewpoint on this, which states that they are against both abortion and capital punishment.
If you take the viewpoint that capital punishment is the act of a society and not the individual, I would posit that capital punishment is an act for which every member of that society is responsible, and therefore is equally guilty of violating the Sixth Commandment.
You also have "Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." (KJV Romans 12:19) This would seem to negate any possibility of either an individual or a society to take revenge on a perpetrator that violates the Sixth Commandment.
How do you reconcile these seemingly contradictory viewpoints?
The question is as follows: As a practicing Christ... (show quote)


From this standpoint we shouldn't be engaged in war either, but we like to be righteous to all of our actions, also it is somehow hard for me to imagine a truly divine entity seeking revenge. That is a human emotion and not a good one. Once again a book written by man along with his trappings.

We can also talk about when is a human a human and not a 'potential".

| Reply
May 15, 2019 08:32:30   #
4430 (a regular here)
 
Morgan wrote:
From this standpoint we shouldn't be engaged in war either,


Without war we wouldn't be here on OPP !

| Reply
May 15, 2019 08:34:01   #
Morgan (a regular here)
 
4430 wrote:
Without war we wouldn't be here on OPP !


I knew someone would justify it, good job

| Reply
May 15, 2019 08:41:20   #
Canuckus Deploracus (a regular here)
 
Quote:
We can also talk about when is a human a human and not a 'potential".


Although I can see many of your points in this response, I have much difficulty with this one...

What exactly is a "potential"?

| Reply
May 15, 2019 08:44:10   #
4430 (a regular here)
 
Morgan wrote:
I knew someone would justify it, good job


I was in Vietnam and war is hell and yes war is justified at times !

We here in the USA are free to live not under tyranny because of going to war !

SO YES I absolutely justify War and I would much rather live free than in any country like lets say Venezuela or Iran the list goes on and on !

This freedom we enjoy today has been paid for at a very high price by the blood of Men and Women willing to fight and die to keep it !

Those that think the wars weren't worth it aren't worthy to live under these freedoms perhaps Morgan you'd rather live under Communism !

| Reply
May 15, 2019 08:49:40   #
no propaganda please (a regular here)
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I doubt many would consider me to be a "Conservative Christian"... Though I am both a Conservative and a Christian...
But I do enjoy your topics...
Here goes....


KJV Exodus 20:13 should be translated as "thou shall not murder"....

There are plenty of verses in the OT that support capital punishment for those who commit serious crimes...

Abortion is a form of murder...

There is no conflict...


Exodus 21:23-25 references tha e punishment suiting the crime... We should not Execute a man for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family...

Romans 12:19 is in reference to the ultimate punishment one faces at the Lord's hand...
As a society we are still required to protect ourselves....



Execute the scum who murder, rape, steal, abuse, etc...

Pray for the souls of those who commit abortion... It is a practice that should only be reserved for the direst of circumstances... Amen...
I doubt many would consider me to be a "Conse... (show quote)


Thank you for that concise and absolutely correct explanation of the difference.

| Reply
May 15, 2019 08:54:05   #
Zemirah (a regular here)
 
We are created in God's image. We have emotions because He has emotions.

God is a just God. He seeks to administer justice.

Both the Hebrew and Greek words translated “vengeance,” “revenge,” and “avenge” have as their root meaning the idea of punishment. This is crucial in understanding why God reserves for Himself the right to avenge.

There are only two times in the Bible when God gives men permission to avenge in His name. First, after the Midianites committed hideous, violent acts against the Israelites, the cup of God’s wrath against the Midianites was full, "the LORD said to Moses, ‘Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people’" (Numbers 31:1-2). Here, again, Moses did not act on his own; he was merely an instrument to carry out God’s perfect plan under His guidance and instruction.

Second, Christians are to be in submission to the rulers God has set over us because they are His instruments for “vengeance on evildoers” (1 Peter 2:13-14). As in Moses’ case, these rulers are not to act on their own, but are to carry out God’s will to administer justice, for the punishment of the wicked.


A human embryo does not have "potential" DNA. From Day One, he/she possesses human DNA.



Morgan wrote:
From this standpoint we shouldn't be engaged in war either, but we like to be righteous to all of our actions, also it is somehow hard for me to imagine a truly divine entity seeking revenge. That is a human emotion and not a good one. Once again a book written by man along with his trappings.

We can also talk about when is a human a human and not a 'potential".

| Reply
May 15, 2019 09:02:55   #
no propaganda please (a regular here)
 
4430 wrote:
Yes I can !

You are comparing apples to oranges !

Take John Wayne Gacy (March 17, 1942 - May 10, 1994) was an American serial killer and rapist who sexually assaulted, tortured and murdered at least 33 teenage boys and young men between 1972 and 1978 in Cook County, Illinois (a part of metropolitan Chicago).

Now take murdering an innocence unborn baby and allowing a baby born alive after a botched abortion that is left to die while crying and or turned face down in a solution till it's dead !

There is a very BIG difference !

SO Absolutely YES I can support both !
Yes I can ! br br You are comparing apples to ora... (show quote)


There was a discussion about Gacy some years ago, where some "gay rights" activists claimed that men like Gacy would not murder boys if homosexual sex were not banned (Gacy was out there years ago) and that sex with teenage boys were not still illegal , according to the activists, boys and teenagers would be encouraged to have sex with adult men they might be attracted to.
By the way, many people go through a period of same sex attraction, often as young teenagers, but as they mature mentally they become opposite sex attracted. I do find it amazing that the same people who claim your sexual desires are genetic, refuse to accept the large number of young people who go through a stage of same sex attraction and then, all on their own, without force, become opposite sex attracted. They claim that those people are really homosexual , and hiding ,it.

| Reply
May 15, 2019 09:14:01   #
bahmer (a regular here)
 
Zemirah wrote:
We are created in God's image. We have emotions because He has emotions.

God is a just God. He seeks to administer justice.

Both the Hebrew and Greek words translated “vengeance,” “revenge,” and “avenge” have as their root meaning the idea of punishment. This is crucial in understanding why God reserves for Himself the right to avenge.

There are only two times in the Bible when God gives men permission to avenge in His name. First, after the Midianites committed hideous, violent acts against the Israelites, the cup of God’s wrath against the Midianites was full, "the LORD said to Moses, ‘Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people’" (Numbers 31:1-2). Here, again, Moses did not act on his own; he was merely an instrument to carry out God’s perfect plan under His guidance and instruction.

Second, Christians are to be in submission to the rulers God has set over us because they are His instruments for “vengeance on evildoers” (1 Peter 2:13-14). As in Moses’ case, these rulers are not to act on their own, but are to carry out God’s will to administer justice, for the punishment of the wicked.


A human embryo does not have "potential" DNA. From Day One, he/she possesses human DNA.
We are created in God's image. We have emotions be... (show quote)


Amen and Amen very good Zemirah thanks for that.

| Reply
May 15, 2019 09:15:55   #
Zemirah (a regular here)
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I find it interesting that God did all of this after He had "hardened" Pharaoh's heart...
I have always wondered at the justification for it... One of the things I have yet to reconcile about the Lord...



To better understand the causes and solutions for a hardened heart, it’s important to understand the broad biblical meaning of the word "heart." The Bible considers the heart to be the hub of human personality, producing the things we would ordinarily ascribe to the "mind."

Scripture informs us that grief (John 14:1); desires (Matthew 5:28); joy (Ephesians 5:19); understanding (Isaiah 6:10; Matthew 13:15); thoughts and reasoning (Genesis 6:5; Hebrews 4:12; Mark 2:8); and, most importantly, faith and belief (Hebrews 3:12; Romans 10:10; Mark 11:23) are all products of the heart. Also, Jesus tells us that the heart is a repository for good and evil and that what comes out of our mouth – good or bad – begins in the heart (Luke 6:43–45).

In Mark 8:17–19 we see Jesus’ own disciples suffering from this malady. The disciples were concerned with their meager bread supply, and it was clear that each of them had forgotten how Jesus had just fed thousands with only a few loaves. Questioning them as to the hardness of their hearts, Christ spells out for us the characteristics of this spiritual heart condition as an inability to see, understand, hear, and remember.

Pharaoh was not an innocent or godly man. He was a brutal dictator overseeing the terrible abuse and oppression of the Israelites, who likely numbered over 1.5 million people at that time. The Egyptian pharaohs had enslaved the Israelites for 400 years. A previous pharaoh — possibly even the pharaoh in question — ordered that male Israelite babies be killed at birth (Exodus 1:16). The pharaoh God hardened was an evil man, and the nation he ruled agreed with, or at least did not oppose, his evil actions.

On at least a couple of occasions, Pharaoh hardened his own heart against letting the Israelites go: “But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart” (Exodus 8:15). “But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart” (Exodus 8:32). As the plagues continued, God gave Pharaoh increasingly severe warnings of the final judgment to come. Pharaoh chose to bring further judgment on himself and his nation by hardening his own heart against God’s commands.

God has foresight. He knew Pharaoh was not going to repent or change. As a result of Pharaoh’s hard-heartedness, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart even further, allowing for the last few plagues and bringing God’s full glory into view (Exodus 9:12; 10:20, 27). Pharaoh and Egypt had brought these judgments on themselves with 400 years of slavery and mass murder. Since the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and Pharaoh and Egypt had horribly sinned against God, it would have been just if God had completely annihilated Egypt.

Therefore, God’s hardening Pharaoh’s heart was not unjust, and His bringing additional plagues against Egypt was not unjust. The plagues, as terrible as they were, actually demonstrate God’s mercy in not completely destroying Egypt, which would have been a perfectly just penalty.

Romans 9:17-18 declares, "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: 'I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.'"

From a human perspective, it seems wrong for God to harden a person and then punish the person He has hardened. Biblically speaking, however, we have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23), and the just penalty for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Therefore, God’s hardening and punishing a person is not unjust; it is actually merciful in comparison to what the person deserves.


Bible Answers for Almost All Your Questions by Elmer L. Towns
The Mind of Christ by T.W. Hunt

| Reply
May 15, 2019 09:52:30   #
Canuckus Deploracus (a regular here)
 
Zemirah wrote:
To better understand the causes and solutions for a hardened heart, it’s important to understand the broad biblical meaning of the word "heart." The Bible considers the heart to be the hub of human personality, producing the things we would ordinarily ascribe to the "mind."

Scripture informs us that grief (John 14:1); desires (Matthew 5:28); joy (Ephesians 5:19); understanding (Isaiah 6:10; Matthew 13:15); thoughts and reasoning (Genesis 6:5; Hebrews 4:12; Mark 2:8); and, most importantly, faith and belief (Hebrews 3:12; Romans 10:10; Mark 11:23) are all products of the heart. Also, Jesus tells us that the heart is a repository for good and evil and that what comes out of our mouth – good or bad – begins in the heart (Luke 6:43–45).

In Mark 8:17–19 we see Jesus’ own disciples suffering from this malady. The disciples were concerned with their meager bread supply, and it was clear that each of them had forgotten how Jesus had just fed thousands with only a few loaves. Questioning them as to the hardness of their hearts, Christ spells out for us the characteristics of this spiritual heart condition as an inability to see, understand, hear, and remember.

Pharaoh was not an innocent or godly man. He was a brutal dictator overseeing the terrible abuse and oppression of the Israelites, who likely numbered over 1.5 million people at that time. The Egyptian pharaohs had enslaved the Israelites for 400 years. A previous pharaoh — possibly even the pharaoh in question — ordered that male Israelite babies be killed at birth (Exodus 1:16). The pharaoh God hardened was an evil man, and the nation he ruled agreed with, or at least did not oppose, his evil actions.

On at least a couple of occasions, Pharaoh hardened his own heart against letting the Israelites go: “But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart” (Exodus 8:15). “But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart” (Exodus 8:32). As the plagues continued, God gave Pharaoh increasingly severe warnings of the final judgment to come. Pharaoh chose to bring further judgment on himself and his nation by hardening his own heart against God’s commands.

God has foresight. He knew Pharaoh was not going to repent or change. As a result of Pharaoh’s hard-heartedness, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart even further, allowing for the last few plagues and bringing God’s full glory into view (Exodus 9:12; 10:20, 27). Pharaoh and Egypt had brought these judgments on themselves with 400 years of slavery and mass murder. Since the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and Pharaoh and Egypt had horribly sinned against God, it would have been just if God had completely annihilated Egypt.

Therefore, God’s hardening Pharaoh’s heart was not unjust, and His bringing additional plagues against Egypt was not unjust. The plagues, as terrible as they were, actually demonstrate God’s mercy in not completely destroying Egypt, which would have been a perfectly just penalty.

Romans 9:17-18 declares, "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: 'I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.'"

From a human perspective, it seems wrong for God to harden a person and then punish the person He has hardened. Biblically speaking, however, we have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23), and the just penalty for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Therefore, God’s hardening and punishing a person is not unjust; it is actually merciful in comparison to what the person deserves.


Bible Answers for Almost All Your Questions by Elmer L. Towns
The Mind of Christ by T.W. Hunt
To better understand the causes and solutions for ... (show quote)


Thank you very much Zemirah...

You have my gratitude for taking the time to address this for me...

I assure you that I shall give it due diligence and thought...



| Reply
May 15, 2019 09:54:32   #
teabag09 (a regular here)
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I doubt many would consider me to be a "Conservative Christian"... Though I am both a Conservative and a Christian...
But I do enjoy your topics...
Here goes....


KJV Exodus 20:13 should be translated as "thou shall not murder"....

There are plenty of verses in the OT that support capital punishment for those who commit serious crimes...

Abortion is a form of murder...

There is no conflict...


Exodus 21:23-25 references tha e punishment suiting the crime... We should not Execute a man for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family...

Romans 12:19 is in reference to the ultimate punishment one faces at the Lord's hand...
As a society we are still required to protect ourselves....



Execute the scum who murder, rape, steal, abuse, etc...

Pray for the souls of those who commit abortion... It is a practice that should only be reserved for the direst of circumstances... Amen...
I doubt many would consider me to be a "Conse... (show quote)


To go along with your train of thought, Capital Punishment is committed to one who has committed a crime, abortion is committed to one who is totally innocent. Mike

| Reply
May 15, 2019 10:01:22   #
Canuckus Deploracus (a regular here)
 
teabag09 wrote:
To go along with your train of thought, Capital Punishment is committed to one who has committed a crime, abortion is committed to one who is totally innocent. Mike


Exactly...

| Reply
May 15, 2019 10:08:16   #
fullspinzoo (a regular here)
 
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
I doubt many would consider me to be a "Conservative Christian"... Though I am both a Conservative and a Christian...
But I do enjoy your topics...
Here goes....


KJV Exodus 20:13 should be translated as "thou shall not murder"....

There are plenty of verses in the OT that support capital punishment for those who commit serious crimes...

Abortion is a form of murder...

There is no conflict...


Exodus 21:23-25 references tha e punishment suiting the crime... We should not Execute a man for stealing a loaf of bread to feed his family...

Romans 12:19 is in reference to the ultimate punishment one faces at the Lord's hand...
As a society we are still required to protect ourselves....



Execute the scum who murder, rape, steal, abuse, etc...

Pray for the souls of those who commit abortion... It is a practice that should only be reserved for the direst of circumstances... Amen...
I doubt many would consider me to be a "Conse... (show quote)


You just went up 5 points on the humanity decency scale. Well said, CD!

| Reply
Page: <<prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 23 next>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
OnePoliticalPlaza.com - Forum
Copyright 2012-2019 IDF International Technologies, Inc.