I was hoping that the two of them would discuss the topic... They are both quite knowledgable concerning scripture...Yet have different view points... It would have been most interesting...

I find your (and Rumi's) points about Prager accurate... It is too bad so many members get bogged down in trivial conflicts...

Once again you've proven an excellent poster... And I understand your disappointment on this thread... Your suggestion was an excellent one... In my opinion...

Have a blessed day Tommy. .

Your friend, Kyle

Remember, when you point your finger, there’s four pointing back at you.

I explained to you that I wasn’t accusing you directly or personally, and why I made the comment, and now you, in my estimation, are the one being “too blinded by stereotypes” to hear my explanation.

Then you go on to criticize getting into trivial arguments, somehow forgetting that no one held a gun to your head to join this discussion with your strongly dissenting opinion. Apparently, that response was because I had a response to your accusations that you couldn’t otherwise defend, so you felt the need to resort to an ad hominem to save face. So, better to imply that guys like me just want to argue about insignificant issues than admit maybe you responded too hastily.

And all because I made the suggestion that you and Blade Runner start your own thread over the topic (mostly because I see the topic of “the purpose of salvation” an important one, worthy of its own thread), which you decided was so wrong-headed that you felt the need to argue with me over in order it to keep an important topic as a sub-topic in the thread which you now claim is a relatively trivial pursuit. But somehow your arguing over which thread your more important sub-topic, which you feel should be the main topic, belonged in, wasn’t trivial because you obviously wouldn’t condescend to trivial, fruitless arguments...

Okay, your turn. Go ahead and tell me, in your view, all the things I’ve said or done wrong in this thread.


By the way, I’m actually beginning to see your point about the humanistic side of Prager’s purpose in his video. Whereas I initially attributed his position to “merely” his Jewish viewpoint, that alone is a little too simplistic. Almost like excusing an unruly child for being too young to understand, when in fact they should have known better at their age. For, by disallowing the New Testament extension to God’s word, his clinging to “old manna” is humanistic. Sorry I didn’t pick up on that earlier. I still don’t see that point as negating his points about why God is referred to in scripture as male, but it certainly casts his motives in a non-Christian (and therefore humanistic) light.

You are right, I have a hard time not generalizing l*****ts. Thanks for reminding me, hopefully someday I won’t need reminding. Until then, thanks!

For me, the term “liberal-Christian” is oxymoronic. It’s like the Jews who were so “liberal” with God’s laws that Jesus accused them of making their worship of God for nought by laying aside the commandments of God to hold their man-made traditions.

Prove me wrong.

I’m certainly open to you trying, but, based on experience, I doubt it. Just because I’m not willing to be blown about by every wind of doctrine doesn’t mean I’m closed minded.

Ive adopted this as my personal motto:

8Yes most certainly, and I count all things to be loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and count them nothing but refuse, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed to his death; 11if by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect; but I press on, if it is so that I may take hold of that for which also I was taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13Brothers, I don't regard myself as yet having taken hold, but one thing I do. Forgetting the things which are behind, and stretching forward to the things which are before, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, think this way. If in anything you think otherwise, God will also reveal that to you.” Phillipians 3:8-15

You use biblical text but don't want anyone to use biblical text in their answer?

Matthew 28:19–20 - “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

To know God you have to read the bible. Its a constant learning process and no one will know all of him, we can only know what our finite minds can grasp.

“So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the Word of Christ.” - Romans 10:17

"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart." -Hebrews 4:12

Others are far more erudite than I.

You make a lot of negative assumptions. Why? What do you gain by such pettiness? Why not ask me to show my understanding of scripture for you to judge if I speak the t***h? I'll do it anyway.

We have been given the gift of salvation (not by any works that we may boast) so that we might love, glorify, and proclaim Christ to others (and not to make a kinder, less violent, and more just world world as the humanists believe is possible through their own efforts).
Through the inspiration of God’s Spirit, Peter puts it this way: “Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy” (1 Peter 2:10). And this is in order “that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light” (1 Peter 2:9). God's purpose for salvation and our purpose on earth is to glorify God in all we think, say, and do. Amen.

I'm right with you on the concept of a "liberal Christian" being oxymoronic. I lived in Utah for quite awhile and would go to church with my lovely wife (at the time), LDS, and watch what went on. Most of the time, they were pretty good and east to "assimilate" with. I was the "heathen" according to my brother'in'law. Of course he ended up taken me for over 15K in a business dealing. He also ran for Mayor of SLC and should have stayed in politics because he was as corrupt as the best of them. But former Speaker Reid comes to mind. I just don't recognize him as a "good, decent" Christian (or Mormon). He is one that I think should have been excommunicated the Mormon Church a long time ago. I have passed his former home in Searchlight many times and thought what a disappointment and what a pathetic example for the Church. His outright lies about Romney and his taxes really pissed me off (no other way to describe it). And his excuse, "He didn't win did he?" Never thought he was a very good example of a "democrat Christian", or a role model for LDS Church. Not trying to judge, just saying he wouldn't win me over. You know how it is, some people just win you over. You go "Wow, what a great example of someone I should strive to be like!!!!