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Don’t read this post unless you are very certain of your beliefs pertaining to God.
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Apr 15, 2019 07:09:50   #
Texas Truth Loc: Behind Enemy Lines
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Oh, oh, I smell the stink of apostasy. Old Lucifer works diligently to snag the faithful, cast doubt into their hearts, throw clouds of uncertainty into their thoughts, force them to question their faith. Once that happens, the doubts and uncertainties feed on themselves, they grow stronger as time passes and soon another child of God turns away from Him. The Prince of Darkness is mightily pleased when one of them passes judgement on God.



Attaboy stand strong and faithful. Yes Lucifer is very strong and will test a person's level of faithfulness. This man is obviously weak and has succumbed possibly temporarily. We are all tested according to our level of strength. Not everybody goes to the same test. I believe those who are tortured and k**led are saved at the time of passing provided they have belief in Christ. Yes this world is a terrible place and is because of Lucifer. I stand in defense of God in Defiance of Lucifer. Stand strong my friend. I stand beside you.

Reply
Apr 15, 2019 07:15:37   #
Texas Truth Loc: Behind Enemy Lines
 
Zemirah wrote:
The position you espouse is not enviable, JW, nor is it realistic.

May I assume you are writing on your modern technological wonder known as a computer in relative comfort in a location of your choice?

May I also assume you are at least moderately well clothed and well fed?

As you do not reference the Bible, nor do you quote one Scripture, may I inquire as to your frame of reference at either the Catholic or Baptist church... Surely, you did not learn about the God you reject solely by word of mouth or your own subjective, i.e., personal experience?

Personally, I find the refrain of "It's all God's fault." to be a cop-out, as you assume no responsibility whatsoever for your inability to find any beauty, joy or satisfaction in anything under the sun.

In this still free country, where you are able to find a Bible in almost any bookstore, or one free at the Salvation Army, if at sometime during your tedious existence, you had availed yourself of the Word of God, and read the book, beginning with Genesis, you might be better positioned to condemn God wholesale, for "His Creation, His initial plan for humanity, man's r*******n. God's subsequent plan for our redemption, His prophetic unveiling of the conditions we may expect in the future, and what the final outcome will be have all been made clear.

God has spelled it all out, with few surprises. He has also given us options. We were not created to be puppets. We have choices to make in life, of which some will be beneficial to us, others not so much.

I see that it is only the rest of mankind who are to keep their "personal belief's private," while you exercise your freedom to post yours here on the internet where, theoretically, the entire world can view them.

This "standard of open-mindedness" you believe you are displaying and which you demand of the rest of us requires further clarification

It is precisely a matter of personal conviction that leads to any degree of belief, i.e. reaching
a conclusion in any matter.

The "mere difference in point of view, or of information possessed, or of t***sient uncertainties" you list as
alternatives to conviction in reaching conclusions are variables dealt with every day in every individual's life.

Our point of view on a matter, for instance, our world view, adjusts to any input of new information, and is temporarily suspended only until we acquire answers that resolve our "t***sient uncertainties."

As the only reality you name in your past life is Christianity, you might examine the fact that there are millions of Christians in the United States, and it is possible their members possess an understanding you have lost, as their loyalty would presumably be short lived were they not being mentally, emotionally and/or spiritually rewarded.

My own profound faith in the Triune Creator God of Israel, God the Father, God the Son - Jesus Christ, and God, the Holy Spirit has never been shaken, for throughout a lifetime that has never been easy, God has never forsaken me.

"Now without faith it is impossible to please God, since the one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek Him." (Hebrews 11:6)

This does not mean God will allow you to win the Lottery, or provide you a chauffeured Limousine, but
he will listen. He is God. We are not. God is not running a democracy.

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it."(Isaiah 1:18-20)

Being sincere availeth a man little, if sincerely wrong.

You can continue to rail against God, or you can make your peace with Him though Jesus Christ, our advocate with God the Father.
The position you espouse is not enviable, JW, nor ... (show quote)


Excellent!

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Apr 15, 2019 07:16:42   #
Texas Truth Loc: Behind Enemy Lines
 
JW wrote:
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up devoutly religious; saved, born again, and a frequent leader of the Sunday evening service at our church. Today, I am agnostic.

Former church-mates of mine are quite certain that I could not have been sincere if I am truly agnostic today. I have assured them, and now you, that I was as sincere then as I am now and I am as sincere as I can possibly be.

There may be a God, I don’t know, but the characterizations of God currently celebrated on planet Earth are pure fiction in my view.

Why do I say such a thing? Firstly, if God can truly do anything, why would He design a universe that cannibalizes itself at every level. Why would any omnipotent being create a system in which His greatest creations can only exist by destroying His other creations? The sadism in that design says nothing positive about a universal creator.

Secondly, if God is truly omniscient, knows all, past, present, future, He would have known from the very beginning of the pain and terror felt by every prey species and every mistreated child throughout the history of His Creations. Once again, the sadism in that behavior says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

Thirdly, if God really is omnipresent as advertised, He is an ever-present witness to all of the pain and agony, torture and death, loss and grief that He has designed into His creations. Finally, the sadism in that voyeuristic proposition says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

I do not object to anyone’s personal beliefs so long as they remain personal. I do not discourage any from their beliefs. I don’t know if it is possible to exist as a society without some omnipotent father figure somewhere in the mix. The current devaluation of the strong father archetype is having some very unfortunate and profound impacts on our ability to maintain and operate a civilized society. That is another of what I view as failures in the design.

It is not my goal here to attack or promote any belief. It is my intention to present an argument for open-mindedness. I know that is a difficult standard to maintain. It requires a constant review of one’s own feelings and information bases. It is not always a matter of conviction that leads us to separate conclusions. Sometimes it is merely a difference in point of view, or of information possessed, or of t***sient uncertainties.
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up de... (show quote)


Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz. All my friends Drive Porsches and I have to make amends.

Reply
 
 
Apr 15, 2019 07:20:50   #
JW
 
Texas T***h wrote:
Oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz. All my friends Drive Porsches and I have to make amends.


Try to understand what you're responding to before you start typing. You won't look quite so foolish.

Reply
Apr 15, 2019 07:32:16   #
Texas Truth Loc: Behind Enemy Lines
 
JW wrote:
Try to understand what you're responding to before you start typing. You won't look quite so foolish.


I guess you don't recognize sarcasm when you see it if I offended you I'm sorry. This is not my attitude towards life. I am poor and glad for it. Material wealth means nothing to me. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do not place myself above anybody ever. No man is better than another . As for foolishness that is somebody else's choice.

Reply
Apr 15, 2019 07:39:12   #
Rose42
 
JW we have all struggled with these questions at one time or another.

I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Ravi Zacharias. He wrote an excellent book on this subject - Why Suffering. He’s a Christian apologist.

Reply
Apr 15, 2019 07:41:46   #
Texas Truth Loc: Behind Enemy Lines
 
Texas T***h wrote:
I guess you don't recognize sarcasm when you see it if I offended you I'm sorry. This is not my attitude towards life. I am poor and glad for it. Material wealth means nothing to me. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do not place myself above anybody ever. No man is better than another . As for foolishness that is somebody else's choice.


I'm sorry if you may be going through a tough time. It happens to most of us. Sometimes just a good handshake or a hug is all that we need to reinforce our belief in Jesus Christ. I apologize for being a wise guy. I hope it is easy to shrug off. Come on man don't give up now. Jesus Christ is coming back soon! Don't you see the world following the road map laid out before us. It is always darkest before the dawn! May the Christ be with you!

Reply
 
 
Apr 15, 2019 08:04:01   #
RT friend Loc: Kangaroo valley NSW Australia
 
JW wrote:
What I enquire into occurred long before Adam.


That's what I was talking about, the great mistake wasn't (P) Adam but he represents the great mistake in the narrative of Religion so we could understand a bit about the great mistake before I revealed it on OPP.

The great mistake was well before existence, in fact the great mistake was even before satan, so the devil had nothing to do with it, hold on I better check that out, it was a long time ago, and even then time didn't exist because substance wasn't thought of.

Let me think, there was a development of possibility and random probability was unwilling to break up so random had in fact made a prisoner of probable and there could be no development, random would hold court and interview the protagonists in accordance with symbiosis but always just advocate a negativity.

On one such occasion Space was in a supposid dispute with Fate and they prevailed upon random if they could have their intended outcome to mediate, random allowed it thinking what could a child know about anything.

But the child was really God pretending, and He obsessed with random and indicated that random could in fact accumulate if He was allowed to stay on as the medium between Fate and Space on the question of "did something once exist or happen".

Which of course random couldn't accumulate he was only an intermediary and God was only posing as outcome, in fact God was the beginning, but even so, probability was on the stage and the random complained it wasn't big enough for the two of them, naturally God had to consume the random and when He did so God changed his name to satan, that meant symbiosis in paleo godspeak.

Lucky I did that check satan was alive and consequently could have had his hand in the great mistake.

I hadn't thought of that before, not that I'm worried for myself you know I'm more than a match for satan, but even so, breaking out and into occultation isn't going to be easy not even for me, I best say a few prayers before I bite the bullet and go up against satan.


Reply
Apr 15, 2019 08:07:03   #
bylm1-Bernie
 
Richard Rowland wrote:
I think, JW, if honest, most of us struggle with the same issues. However, there are those who go thru life rarely thinking one-way-or-another about the prospect of if there is a God or not. It is only logical that given a brain, we who have delved a bit into the official word of God would question it.

I read recently that a mountain lion had attacked a young child, the mother heard her child's screams, rushed to rescue the child, jumping on the lion and asking God's help. The lion did release the child and ran off.

There is no doubt the outcome of what could have been much worse, has reinforced this mother's belief in God. Still, the question could be, why did God allow that to happen in the first place?

Personally, I believe in a higher power. Not so much, though, in God, man has created. I have experienced what I believe to be the work of a higher power, however, some would say mere coincidence. To each his own!
I think, JW, if honest, most of us struggle with t... (show quote)



I've always wondered, Richard, why someone would believe in "a higher power" that is not the God of the Bible when there is absolutely know reasonable, well documented source that points to that conclusion. Why invent one or simply say, "I feel that there is a higher power?" The Bible has been given us to explain God's workings to everyone, of any intelligence level. I have a sister-in-law who espouses this belief and I have never been able to fathom her reasoning for rejecting what is so plainly obvious from the Bible. I believe that a reading of "Mere Christianity" by C S Lewis might be helpful. If you're looking for proof that the existence of God can be empirically established, then you are on the wrong track.

Reply
Apr 15, 2019 08:16:32   #
old earth
 
JW wrote:
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up devoutly religious; saved, born again, and a frequent leader of the Sunday evening service at our church. Today, I am agnostic.

Former church-mates of mine are quite certain that I could not have been sincere if I am truly agnostic today. I have assured them, and now you, that I was as sincere then as I am now and I am as sincere as I can possibly be.

There may be a God, I don’t know, but the characterizations of God currently celebrated on planet Earth are pure fiction in my view.

Why do I say such a thing? Firstly, if God can truly do anything, why would He design a universe that cannibalizes itself at every level. Why would any omnipotent being create a system in which His greatest creations can only exist by destroying His other creations? The sadism in that design says nothing positive about a universal creator.

Secondly, if God is truly omniscient, knows all, past, present, future, He would have known from the very beginning of the pain and terror felt by every prey species and every mistreated child throughout the history of His Creations. Once again, the sadism in that behavior says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

Thirdly, if God really is omnipresent as advertised, He is an ever-present witness to all of the pain and agony, torture and death, loss and grief that He has designed into His creations. Finally, the sadism in that voyeuristic proposition says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

I do not object to anyone’s personal beliefs so long as they remain personal. I do not discourage any from their beliefs. I don’t know if it is possible to exist as a society without some omnipotent father figure somewhere in the mix. The current devaluation of the strong father archetype is having some very unfortunate and profound impacts on our ability to maintain and operate a civilized society. That is another of what I view as failures in the design.

It is not my goal here to attack or promote any belief. It is my intention to present an argument for open-mindedness. I know that is a difficult standard to maintain. It requires a constant review of one’s own feelings and information bases. It is not always a matter of conviction that leads us to separate conclusions. Sometimes it is merely a difference in point of view, or of information possessed, or of t***sient uncertainties.
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up de... (show quote)


Hi JW,
I was just like in your place until I retired. I started studying the bible myself and researching resources on the internet. I do not belong to any church. I trust God to lead me to what He wants me to know.
\
What I have found out by personal research, is amazing! I now have an 89 page thesis on what I have learned. Churches basically feed us baby food. It is a good start, but God requires us to to learn the rest. It is amazing what you can learn if you ask God to revel what He will to you.
Chuck Missler has some really amazing videos on youtube. Check them out and see what you think.
Good luck on your journey, If I can help let me know. humbly...allan

Reply
Apr 15, 2019 08:18:03   #
lindajoy Loc: right here with you....
 
JW wrote:
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up devoutly religious; saved, born again, and a frequent leader of the Sunday evening service at our church. Today, I am agnostic.

Former church-mates of mine are quite certain that I could not have been sincere if I am truly agnostic today. I have assured them, and now you, that I was as sincere then as I am now and I am as sincere as I can possibly be.

There may be a God, I don’t know, but the characterizations of God currently celebrated on planet Earth are pure fiction in my view.

Why do I say such a thing? Firstly, if God can truly do anything, why would He design a universe that cannibalizes itself at every level. Why would any omnipotent being create a system in which His greatest creations can only exist by destroying His other creations? The sadism in that design says nothing positive about a universal creator.

Secondly, if God is truly omniscient, knows all, past, present, future, He would have known from the very beginning of the pain and terror felt by every prey species and every mistreated child throughout the history of His Creations. Once again, the sadism in that behavior says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

Thirdly, if God really is omnipresent as advertised, He is an ever-present witness to all of the pain and agony, torture and death, loss and grief that He has designed into His creations. Finally, the sadism in that voyeuristic proposition says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

I do not object to anyone’s personal beliefs so long as they remain personal. I do not discourage any from their beliefs. I don’t know if it is possible to exist as a society without some omnipotent father figure somewhere in the mix. The current devaluation of the strong father archetype is having some very unfortunate and profound impacts on our ability to maintain and operate a civilized society. That is another of what I view as failures in the design.

It is not my goal here to attack or promote any belief. It is my intention to present an argument for open-mindedness. I know that is a difficult standard to maintain. It requires a constant review of one’s own feelings and information bases. It is not always a matter of conviction that leads us to separate conclusions. Sometimes it is merely a difference in point of view, or of information possessed, or of t***sient uncertainties.
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up de... (show quote)


God gave us Love and choice with a few commandments to live by.. From there he sat back, so to speak, to watch the choices we made that brings forth the future generations...

Ultimately everything done is choice, the question is are we becoming extinct because of them??

Reply
 
 
Apr 15, 2019 08:22:18   #
bylm1-Bernie
 
RT friend wrote:
That's what I was talking about, the great mistake wasn't (P) Adam but he represents the great mistake in the narrative of Religion so we could understand a bit about the great mistake before I revealed it on OPP.

The great mistake was well before existence, in fact the great mistake was even before satan, so the devil had nothing to do with it, hold on I better check that out, it was a long time ago, and even then time didn't exist because substance wasn't thought of.

Let me think, there was a development of possibility and random probability was unwilling to break up so random had in fact made a prisoner of probable and there could be no development, random would hold court and interview the protagonists in accordance with symbiosis but always just advocate a negativity.

On one such occasion Space was in a supposid dispute with Fate and they prevailed upon random if they could have their intended outcome to mediate, random allowed it thinking what could a child know about anything.

But the child was really God pretending, and He obsessed with random and indicated that random could in fact accumulate if He was allowed to stay on as the medium between Fate and Space on the question of "did something once exist or happen".

Which of course random couldn't accumulate he was only an intermediary and God was only posing as outcome, in fact God was the beginning, but even so, probability was on the stage and the random complained it wasn't big enough for the two of them, naturally God had to consume the random and when He did so God changed his name to satan, that meant symbiosis in paleo godspeak.

Lucky I did that check satan was alive and consequently could have had his hand in the great mistake.

I hadn't thought of that before, not that I'm worried for myself you know I'm more than a match for satan, but even so, breaking out and into occultation isn't going to be easy not even for me, I best say a few prayers before I bite the bullet and go up against satan.

That's what I was talking about, the great mistake... (show quote)



Tell me, RT, does living "Down Under" mean that your thinking is upside down?

Reply
Apr 15, 2019 08:57:40   #
Divine truth
 
JW wrote:
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up devoutly religious; saved, born again, and a frequent leader of the Sunday evening service at our church. Today, I am agnostic.

Former church-mates of mine are quite certain that I could not have been sincere if I am truly agnostic today. I have assured them, and now you, that I was as sincere then as I am now and I am as sincere as I can possibly be.

There may be a God, I don’t know, but the characterizations of God currently celebrated on planet Earth are pure fiction in my view.

Why do I say such a thing? Firstly, if God can truly do anything, why would He design a universe that cannibalizes itself at every level. Why would any omnipotent being create a system in which His greatest creations can only exist by destroying His other creations? The sadism in that design says nothing positive about a universal creator.

Secondly, if God is truly omniscient, knows all, past, present, future, He would have known from the very beginning of the pain and terror felt by every prey species and every mistreated child throughout the history of His Creations. Once again, the sadism in that behavior says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

Thirdly, if God really is omnipresent as advertised, He is an ever-present witness to all of the pain and agony, torture and death, loss and grief that He has designed into His creations. Finally, the sadism in that voyeuristic proposition says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

I do not object to anyone’s personal beliefs so long as they remain personal. I do not discourage any from their beliefs. I don’t know if it is possible to exist as a society without some omnipotent father figure somewhere in the mix. The current devaluation of the strong father archetype is having some very unfortunate and profound impacts on our ability to maintain and operate a civilized society. That is another of what I view as failures in the design.

It is not my goal here to attack or promote any belief. It is my intention to present an argument for open-mindedness. I know that is a difficult standard to maintain. It requires a constant review of one’s own feelings and information bases. It is not always a matter of conviction that leads us to separate conclusions. Sometimes it is merely a difference in point of view, or of information possessed, or of t***sient uncertainties.
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up de... (show quote)


I am firm, unshakable and strong in my belief system and my FAITH. I am a living witness, that there is a Supreme being. I can say with conviction that's i met and know Him personally!

My "religious" and life experiences, is evidence's. My beautiful white Russia soulmate, is the latest prove of the omnipotent, omniscient presence of a powerful source in the world, our life's and the universe.

I traveled various Faith's belief systems and pathways, all from a spiritual energy perspective. I never knew my earthly father, and got to know and accept my heavenly Father. Which is characterized by many names, but is one and the same.

This is not about religion or placing one belief over another's, or identifying with a religious institution. The house of the Lord or Creator's is within, not some man made building, respectfully. Within everyone is the spirit of G-d. That's why it is stated; greater is He, within, then he in the world

I understand your pain, and comprehend all the intelligence points you pointed out in your argument. They are all well taken, and respected, to the highest degree.

The omnipotent and omniscient presence of G-D, the Almighty One, the Most High, Supreme being, the grand architect of the sun, Moon, stars, heaven above, and my beautiful white Russia Queen's and my life today's.

1985/86, I was falsely arrested in New York City, for an alleged drug sale of pill's, and boldly challenged the arrest from the beginning. I opened the pocket Bible my mother's gave me for spiritual protection. When, I was placed in the police department cell, I reached in my pocket, for my Bible. Opened it up to the book of ft 1st Corinthians

Reply
Apr 15, 2019 09:14:21   #
Wonttakeitanymore
 
Blade_Runner wrote:
Oh, oh, I smell the stink of apostasy. Old Lucifer works diligently to snag the faithful, cast doubt into their hearts, throw clouds of uncertainty into their thoughts, force them to question their faith. Once that happens, the doubts and uncertainties feed on themselves, they grow stronger as time passes and soon another child of God turns away from Him. The Prince of Darkness is mightily pleased when one of them passes judgement on God.


The end times say even the elect! Satan has hold of this guy! Something or someone must have disappointed him

Reply
Apr 15, 2019 09:26:41   #
working class stiff Loc: N. Carolina
 
JW wrote:
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up devoutly religious; saved, born again, and a frequent leader of the Sunday evening service at our church. Today, I am agnostic.

Former church-mates of mine are quite certain that I could not have been sincere if I am truly agnostic today. I have assured them, and now you, that I was as sincere then as I am now and I am as sincere as I can possibly be.

There may be a God, I don’t know, but the characterizations of God currently celebrated on planet Earth are pure fiction in my view.

Why do I say such a thing? Firstly, if God can truly do anything, why would He design a universe that cannibalizes itself at every level. Why would any omnipotent being create a system in which His greatest creations can only exist by destroying His other creations? The sadism in that design says nothing positive about a universal creator.

Secondly, if God is truly omniscient, knows all, past, present, future, He would have known from the very beginning of the pain and terror felt by every prey species and every mistreated child throughout the history of His Creations. Once again, the sadism in that behavior says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

Thirdly, if God really is omnipresent as advertised, He is an ever-present witness to all of the pain and agony, torture and death, loss and grief that He has designed into His creations. Finally, the sadism in that voyeuristic proposition says nothing positive about such a universal creator.

I do not object to anyone’s personal beliefs so long as they remain personal. I do not discourage any from their beliefs. I don’t know if it is possible to exist as a society without some omnipotent father figure somewhere in the mix. The current devaluation of the strong father archetype is having some very unfortunate and profound impacts on our ability to maintain and operate a civilized society. That is another of what I view as failures in the design.

It is not my goal here to attack or promote any belief. It is my intention to present an argument for open-mindedness. I know that is a difficult standard to maintain. It requires a constant review of one’s own feelings and information bases. It is not always a matter of conviction that leads us to separate conclusions. Sometimes it is merely a difference in point of view, or of information possessed, or of t***sient uncertainties.
I was born Catholic, raised Baptist and grew up de... (show quote)


Nicely stated. As noted by Rose, many of us struggle with the seemingly inherent human capacity for spirituality (a higher power), and the way it is expressed here on Earth.

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