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Church in a Bar?
Apr 14, 2019 11:20:43   #
bahmer
 
Church in a Bar?
By Dr. Mark Creech - April 14, 2019

Having church in a bar is a new phenomenon, but a growing one. It’s largely an informal movement started in recent years that has spawned hundreds of church services in dives and bars across the country.

In an article for The Wisdom Daily, Irwin Kula, says, “People have gathered for ‘Beer and Hymns’ in Portland, ‘Church-in-a-Pub’ in Fort Worth, ‘What Would Jesus Brew’ in Michigan, and the ‘Bar Church’ in D.C…

Kula urges his readers to note the welcome message from one group in Boston, which reads:

“Welcome to the Pub Church! We are a church in a pub, and the Spirit is with us. In this place, feel free to move about, help yourself to food and drink, and express yourself openly! We come together with a variety of thoughts, stories, talents, hopes, and hurts; all we bring is welcome. We pray that in coming together with all our differences and with the Spirit, we participate in a new divine reality. This is sacred space.”
Trending: Rep. Mad Max Waters Duped By Own Ignorance

Supporters of this venue for worship argue it is an unconventional way of doing church, but it’s also in response to the decline of institutional religion in favor of a new kind of church experience. It draws people who would never attend a traditional church and it’s less judgmental, they say. It’s devoid of religiosity and focuses on relationships. A bar is a place, they believe, that one would likely find Jesus if he were here today.

I cannot deny the Scriptures tell us that Jesus was found among sinners and associating with them in places commonly rejected. I cannot deny that some churches have been atrociously unwelcoming, self-righteous, pretentious, hypocritical, and even abusive. Nor can I deny that God’s Spirit can do his work in the most unbecoming sites and situations. But for me, a partnership between a place that celebrates alcohol and the holy work of God is an unequal yoke that ultimately does more harm than good to both the sinner and the saint.

I think it’s difficult to justify the complaint that the traditional church has been too offensive for one to attend, but then ignore the villainy of the bar.

One poet expressed it this way:

The name of each saloon is a bar,

The fittest of its names by far.

A bar to heaven, a door to hell,

Whoever named it named it well.

A bar to manliness and wealth,

A door to want and broken health;

A bar to honor, pride, and fame,

A door to sin and grief and shame;

A bar to hope, a bar to prayer,

A door to darkness and despair.

A bar to an honored, useful life,

A door to brawling, senseless strife;

A bar to all that’s true and brave,

A door to every drunkard’s grave;

A bar to joys that home imparts,

A door to tears and aching hearts;

A bar to heaven, a door to hell,

Whoever named it named it well.

The Scriptures speak with the strongest of warnings about things that happen in a bar.

“Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler; and whoever is led astray by it is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1).
“Woe to him who gives his neighbor drink; pouring out from your wineskins to make him drunk so as to gaze upon his nakedness” (Habakkuk 2:15).

These passages indicate the individual who drinks and the barkeeper who pours the alcohol share in personal and corporate responsibility for the resulting harms.

Alcohol continues its blight upon every phase of human life. Despite the fact we’ve dignified its use in the present and so many pastors and professing Christians seem averse to those so-called holy rollers, which challenge its use as something better left alone, alcohol’s long trail of tears is undeniable. Day by day, science is supporting the contention that abstinence is the better way.

According to a recent study from the United Kingdom, a bottle of wine per week is like smoking ten cigarettes in the same period in terms of cancer risk. That’s significant when you consider the average American who smokes consumes around 100 cigarettes a week. Whether a smoker or not, a bottle of wine every week increases the risk of cancer.

Studies are determining that even moderate drinking is an important public health issue. A major new study from the University of Oxford, Peking University, and the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences reports that alcohol use increases the risk of stroke. “There are no protective effects of moderate alcohol intake against stroke,” researchers determined. “Even moderate alcohol consumption increases the chances of having a stroke.”

Medical News Today reported this month:

“A new study goes against the grain of previous research by suggesting that alcohol-induced brain damage does not stop when alcohol use ends. Instead, the harmful effects of alcohol may continue during abstinence. The findings have important implications for the process of recovery from alcohol dependence.”
In other words, the negative impact of an alcohol disorder on the brain can continue after committing to a life of sobriety.

This is not to mention that excessive alcohol use leads to approximately 241 deaths every day and 2.5 million years of potential life lost each year in the United States from 2006-2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years. Excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years. And the economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2010 (the latest figures available) were estimated at $249 billion.

Jesus said:

“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly” (John 10:10)

The first part of Jesus’ saying fits the many outcomes of alcohol use and abuse. It’s a thief that can steal, kill, and destroy. But the mission of Christ is to give life and to give life more abundantly. The two purposes are diametrically opposed to each other.

Providing a Christian witness in a bar, I would say, is legitimate if the goal is to get people out of there. If its purpose is to get folks away from the bar so they can be instructed, encouraged, and held accountable for a holy life, that’s a worthy objective. But to set up God’s house in the devil’s lair where people are continuously subjected to temptations that steal, kill and destroy life, is a misapplication of Christian missions.

As seen here at Christian Action League of North Carolina. Posted here with permission.

Reply
Apr 14, 2019 14:02:25   #
rumitoid
 
bahmer wrote:
Church in a Bar?
By Dr. Mark Creech - April 14, 2019

Having church in a bar is a new phenomenon, but a growing one. It’s largely an informal movement started in recent years that has spawned hundreds of church services in dives and bars across the country.

In an article for The Wisdom Daily, Irwin Kula, says, “People have gathered for ‘Beer and Hymns’ in Portland, ‘Church-in-a-Pub’ in Fort Worth, ‘What Would Jesus Brew’ in Michigan, and the ‘Bar Church’ in D.C…

Kula urges his readers to note the welcome message from one group in Boston, which reads:

“Welcome to the Pub Church! We are a church in a pub, and the Spirit is with us. In this place, feel free to move about, help yourself to food and drink, and express yourself openly! We come together with a variety of thoughts, stories, talents, hopes, and hurts; all we bring is welcome. We pray that in coming together with all our differences and with the Spirit, we participate in a new divine reality. This is sacred space.”
Trending: Rep. Mad Max Waters Duped By Own Ignorance

Supporters of this venue for worship argue it is an unconventional way of doing church, but it’s also in response to the decline of institutional religion in favor of a new kind of church experience. It draws people who would never attend a traditional church and it’s less judgmental, they say. It’s devoid of religiosity and focuses on relationships. A bar is a place, they believe, that one would likely find Jesus if he were here today.

I cannot deny the Scriptures tell us that Jesus was found among sinners and associating with them in places commonly rejected. I cannot deny that some churches have been atrociously unwelcoming, self-righteous, pretentious, hypocritical, and even abusive. Nor can I deny that God’s Spirit can do his work in the most unbecoming sites and situations. But for me, a partnership between a place that celebrates alcohol and the holy work of God is an unequal yoke that ultimately does more harm than good to both the sinner and the saint.

I think it’s difficult to justify the complaint that the traditional church has been too offensive for one to attend, but then ignore the villainy of the bar.

One poet expressed it this way:

The name of each saloon is a bar,

The fittest of its names by far.

A bar to heaven, a door to hell,

Whoever named it named it well.

A bar to manliness and wealth,

A door to want and broken health;

A bar to honor, pride, and fame,

A door to sin and grief and shame;

A bar to hope, a bar to prayer,

A door to darkness and despair.

A bar to an honored, useful life,

A door to brawling, senseless strife;

A bar to all that’s true and brave,

A door to every drunkard’s grave;

A bar to joys that home imparts,

A door to tears and aching hearts;

A bar to heaven, a door to hell,

Whoever named it named it well.

The Scriptures speak with the strongest of warnings about things that happen in a bar.

“Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler; and whoever is led astray by it is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1).
“Woe to him who gives his neighbor drink; pouring out from your wineskins to make him drunk so as to gaze upon his nakedness” (Habakkuk 2:15).

These passages indicate the individual who drinks and the barkeeper who pours the alcohol share in personal and corporate responsibility for the resulting harms.

Alcohol continues its blight upon every phase of human life. Despite the fact we’ve dignified its use in the present and so many pastors and professing Christians seem averse to those so-called holy rollers, which challenge its use as something better left alone, alcohol’s long trail of tears is undeniable. Day by day, science is supporting the contention that abstinence is the better way.

According to a recent study from the United Kingdom, a bottle of wine per week is like smoking ten cigarettes in the same period in terms of cancer risk. That’s significant when you consider the average American who smokes consumes around 100 cigarettes a week. Whether a smoker or not, a bottle of wine every week increases the risk of cancer.

Studies are determining that even moderate drinking is an important public health issue. A major new study from the University of Oxford, Peking University, and the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences reports that alcohol use increases the risk of stroke. “There are no protective effects of moderate alcohol intake against stroke,” researchers determined. “Even moderate alcohol consumption increases the chances of having a stroke.”

Medical News Today reported this month:

“A new study goes against the grain of previous research by suggesting that alcohol-induced brain damage does not stop when alcohol use ends. Instead, the harmful effects of alcohol may continue during abstinence. The findings have important implications for the process of recovery from alcohol dependence.”
In other words, the negative impact of an alcohol disorder on the brain can continue after committing to a life of sobriety.

This is not to mention that excessive alcohol use leads to approximately 241 deaths every day and 2.5 million years of potential life lost each year in the United States from 2006-2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years. Excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years. And the economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2010 (the latest figures available) were estimated at $249 billion.

Jesus said:

“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly” (John 10:10)

The first part of Jesus’ saying fits the many outcomes of alcohol use and abuse. It’s a thief that can steal, kill, and destroy. But the mission of Christ is to give life and to give life more abundantly. The two purposes are diametrically opposed to each other.

Providing a Christian witness in a bar, I would say, is legitimate if the goal is to get people out of there. If its purpose is to get folks away from the bar so they can be instructed, encouraged, and held accountable for a holy life, that’s a worthy objective. But to set up God’s house in the devil’s lair where people are continuously subjected to temptations that steal, kill and destroy life, is a misapplication of Christian missions.

As seen here at Christian Action League of North Carolina. Posted here with permission.
Church in a Bar? br By Dr. Mark Creech - April 14,... (show quote)


Watered-down Jesus as a chaser for the devil's brew. What could possibly be wrong with that?

Reply
Apr 14, 2019 16:36:48   #
Canuckus Deploracus Loc: North of the wall
 
bahmer wrote:
Church in a Bar?
By Dr. Mark Creech - April 14, 2019

Having church in a bar is a new phenomenon, but a growing one. It’s largely an informal movement started in recent years that has spawned hundreds of church services in dives and bars across the country.

In an article for The Wisdom Daily, Irwin Kula, says, “People have gathered for ‘Beer and Hymns’ in Portland, ‘Church-in-a-Pub’ in Fort Worth, ‘What Would Jesus Brew’ in Michigan, and the ‘Bar Church’ in D.C…

Kula urges his readers to note the welcome message from one group in Boston, which reads:

“Welcome to the Pub Church! We are a church in a pub, and the Spirit is with us. In this place, feel free to move about, help yourself to food and drink, and express yourself openly! We come together with a variety of thoughts, stories, talents, hopes, and hurts; all we bring is welcome. We pray that in coming together with all our differences and with the Spirit, we participate in a new divine reality. This is sacred space.”
Trending: Rep. Mad Max Waters Duped By Own Ignorance

Supporters of this venue for worship argue it is an unconventional way of doing church, but it’s also in response to the decline of institutional religion in favor of a new kind of church experience. It draws people who would never attend a traditional church and it’s less judgmental, they say. It’s devoid of religiosity and focuses on relationships. A bar is a place, they believe, that one would likely find Jesus if he were here today.

I cannot deny the Scriptures tell us that Jesus was found among sinners and associating with them in places commonly rejected. I cannot deny that some churches have been atrociously unwelcoming, self-righteous, pretentious, hypocritical, and even abusive. Nor can I deny that God’s Spirit can do his work in the most unbecoming sites and situations. But for me, a partnership between a place that celebrates alcohol and the holy work of God is an unequal yoke that ultimately does more harm than good to both the sinner and the saint.

I think it’s difficult to justify the complaint that the traditional church has been too offensive for one to attend, but then ignore the villainy of the bar.

One poet expressed it this way:

The name of each saloon is a bar,

The fittest of its names by far.

A bar to heaven, a door to hell,

Whoever named it named it well.

A bar to manliness and wealth,

A door to want and broken health;

A bar to honor, pride, and fame,

A door to sin and grief and shame;

A bar to hope, a bar to prayer,

A door to darkness and despair.

A bar to an honored, useful life,

A door to brawling, senseless strife;

A bar to all that’s true and brave,

A door to every drunkard’s grave;

A bar to joys that home imparts,

A door to tears and aching hearts;

A bar to heaven, a door to hell,

Whoever named it named it well.

The Scriptures speak with the strongest of warnings about things that happen in a bar.

“Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler; and whoever is led astray by it is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1).
“Woe to him who gives his neighbor drink; pouring out from your wineskins to make him drunk so as to gaze upon his nakedness” (Habakkuk 2:15).

These passages indicate the individual who drinks and the barkeeper who pours the alcohol share in personal and corporate responsibility for the resulting harms.

Alcohol continues its blight upon every phase of human life. Despite the fact we’ve dignified its use in the present and so many pastors and professing Christians seem averse to those so-called holy rollers, which challenge its use as something better left alone, alcohol’s long trail of tears is undeniable. Day by day, science is supporting the contention that abstinence is the better way.

According to a recent study from the United Kingdom, a bottle of wine per week is like smoking ten cigarettes in the same period in terms of cancer risk. That’s significant when you consider the average American who smokes consumes around 100 cigarettes a week. Whether a smoker or not, a bottle of wine every week increases the risk of cancer.

Studies are determining that even moderate drinking is an important public health issue. A major new study from the University of Oxford, Peking University, and the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences reports that alcohol use increases the risk of stroke. “There are no protective effects of moderate alcohol intake against stroke,” researchers determined. “Even moderate alcohol consumption increases the chances of having a stroke.”

Medical News Today reported this month:

“A new study goes against the grain of previous research by suggesting that alcohol-induced brain damage does not stop when alcohol use ends. Instead, the harmful effects of alcohol may continue during abstinence. The findings have important implications for the process of recovery from alcohol dependence.”
In other words, the negative impact of an alcohol disorder on the brain can continue after committing to a life of sobriety.

This is not to mention that excessive alcohol use leads to approximately 241 deaths every day and 2.5 million years of potential life lost each year in the United States from 2006-2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years. Excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years. And the economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2010 (the latest figures available) were estimated at $249 billion.

Jesus said:

“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly” (John 10:10)

The first part of Jesus’ saying fits the many outcomes of alcohol use and abuse. It’s a thief that can steal, kill, and destroy. But the mission of Christ is to give life and to give life more abundantly. The two purposes are diametrically opposed to each other.

Providing a Christian witness in a bar, I would say, is legitimate if the goal is to get people out of there. If its purpose is to get folks away from the bar so they can be instructed, encouraged, and held accountable for a holy life, that’s a worthy objective. But to set up God’s house in the devil’s lair where people are continuously subjected to temptations that steal, kill and destroy life, is a misapplication of Christian missions.

As seen here at Christian Action League of North Carolina. Posted here with permission.
Church in a Bar? br By Dr. Mark Creech - April 14,... (show quote)


So don't drink 10 bottles of wine a week
I'll have to cut back...

Reply
 
 
Apr 14, 2019 17:10:54   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Hi bahmer,

I normally agree with everything you post, and I understand you didn't write this; to me, this organization reeks of sanctimonious self-righteousness.

The Christian Action League of North Carolina, where this editorial originated, "had its beginning in the days of prohibition and grew out of the Anti-Saloon movement."

They sound like the Religious Police of Saudi Arabia whose declared purpose is the enforcement of enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong or promotion of virtue and prevention of vice.

The ekklesia, i.e., the universal "called out" congregation of believers who are the Body of Christ are called to 1) worship God, and 2) to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, and to listen to our own conscience.

Given a choice between their headquarters and a neighborhood bar as a location to discuss the gospel of Jesus Christ with those lost sinners for whom Jesus said He had come, I would choose the latter.

Just as Jesus chose to eat and drink with publicans and tax collectors, who were considered the dregs of His society, and was accordingly called a drunkard and a glutton by the self-righteous Pharisees whom He scorned and upbraided, I find it hard to picture Jesus as acceptable to the Christian Action League, who proclaim that they chase away the darkness of life with a combination of "the Gospel of Christ and the law of God."

It cannot be both, for the Scripture makes it clear that "it is He who made us capable of serving the New Covenant, which consists not of a written law but of the Holy Spirit. The written law brings death, but the Holy Spirit gives life." (2nd Corinthians 3:6)


The following information regarding their history is online:

The Christian Action League of North Carolina is a Christian public policy organization representing conservative evangelicals from seventeen denominations in the Tar Heel state.

It has its roots in the days of prohibition and grew out of the Anti-Saloon movement. In 1937, during the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina in Wilmington, a committee was formed to meet with the leadership of other denominations for the express purpose of forming an interdenominational, statewide organization that could effectively address the state’s alcohol policy. Thus was formed The Allied Church League.

In 1958, however, the charter of the organization was amended to expand the scope of its ministry. No longer would the League simply address alcohol policy, but would also address all matters of public-policy it deemed pertinent to protecting and sustaining a righteous culture. This is when the name was changed from the Allied Church League to the Christian Action League of North Carolina.

Today the Christian Action League has representatives serving on its Advisory Board from nearly all 100 counties in the Tar Heel state. It has the largest network of members, volunteers, and churches of any Christian public-policy group in North Carolina.

The Christian Action League helps communities with advice and assistance regarding local option alcohol referendums to sexually oriented businesses. It has a full-time lobbying presence in the North Carolina General Assembly and works with lawmakers concerning a host of issues: America’s Christian heritage, religious liberty, biomedical ethics, marriage and family, substance abuse, gambling, pornography, race relations, the sanctity of human life, etc.

One of the Christian Action League’s most important ministries is training, developing and motivating followers of Christ to be involved in the political process. Jesus commanded believers to be “salt” and “light” (St. Matthew 5:13,14). As “salt” Christians have a persevering effect on culture – they keep the world from becoming completely rotten. As “light” they expose the evils of their day, as well as chase away the darkness of life with the Gospel of Christ and the law of God.

Rev. Mark H. Creech, Executive Director



bahmer wrote:
Church in a Bar?
By Dr. Mark Creech - April 14, 2019

Having church in a bar is a new phenomenon, but a growing one. It’s largely an informal movement started in recent years that has spawned hundreds of church services in dives and bars across the country.

In an article for The Wisdom Daily, Irwin Kula, says, “People have gathered for ‘Beer and Hymns’ in Portland, ‘Church-in-a-Pub’ in Fort Worth, ‘What Would Jesus Brew’ in Michigan, and the ‘Bar Church’ in D.C…

Kula urges his readers to note the welcome message from one group in Boston, which reads:

“Welcome to the Pub Church! We are a church in a pub, and the Spirit is with us. In this place, feel free to move about, help yourself to food and drink, and express yourself openly! We come together with a variety of thoughts, stories, talents, hopes, and hurts; all we bring is welcome. We pray that in coming together with all our differences and with the Spirit, we participate in a new divine reality. This is sacred space.”
Trending: Rep. Mad Max Waters Duped By Own Ignorance

Supporters of this venue for worship argue it is an unconventional way of doing church, but it’s also in response to the decline of institutional religion in favor of a new kind of church experience. It draws people who would never attend a traditional church and it’s less judgmental, they say. It’s devoid of religiosity and focuses on relationships. A bar is a place, they believe, that one would likely find Jesus if he were here today.

I cannot deny the Scriptures tell us that Jesus was found among sinners and associating with them in places commonly rejected. I cannot deny that some churches have been atrociously unwelcoming, self-righteous, pretentious, hypocritical, and even abusive. Nor can I deny that God’s Spirit can do his work in the most unbecoming sites and situations. But for me, a partnership between a place that celebrates alcohol and the holy work of God is an unequal yoke that ultimately does more harm than good to both the sinner and the saint.

I think it’s difficult to justify the complaint that the traditional church has been too offensive for one to attend, but then ignore the villainy of the bar.

One poet expressed it this way:

The name of each saloon is a bar,

The fittest of its names by far.

A bar to heaven, a door to hell,

Whoever named it named it well.

A bar to manliness and wealth,

A door to want and broken health;

A bar to honor, pride, and fame,

A door to sin and grief and shame;

A bar to hope, a bar to prayer,

A door to darkness and despair.

A bar to an honored, useful life,

A door to brawling, senseless strife;

A bar to all that’s true and brave,

A door to every drunkard’s grave;

A bar to joys that home imparts,

A door to tears and aching hearts;

A bar to heaven, a door to hell,

Whoever named it named it well.

The Scriptures speak with the strongest of warnings about things that happen in a bar.

“Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler; and whoever is led astray by it is not wise” (Proverbs 20:1).
“Woe to him who gives his neighbor drink; pouring out from your wineskins to make him drunk so as to gaze upon his nakedness” (Habakkuk 2:15).

These passages indicate the individual who drinks and the barkeeper who pours the alcohol share in personal and corporate responsibility for the resulting harms.

Alcohol continues its blight upon every phase of human life. Despite the fact we’ve dignified its use in the present and so many pastors and professing Christians seem averse to those so-called holy rollers, which challenge its use as something better left alone, alcohol’s long trail of tears is undeniable. Day by day, science is supporting the contention that abstinence is the better way.

According to a recent study from the United Kingdom, a bottle of wine per week is like smoking ten cigarettes in the same period in terms of cancer risk. That’s significant when you consider the average American who smokes consumes around 100 cigarettes a week. Whether a smoker or not, a bottle of wine every week increases the risk of cancer.

Studies are determining that even moderate drinking is an important public health issue. A major new study from the University of Oxford, Peking University, and the Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences reports that alcohol use increases the risk of stroke. “There are no protective effects of moderate alcohol intake against stroke,” researchers determined. “Even moderate alcohol consumption increases the chances of having a stroke.”

Medical News Today reported this month:

“A new study goes against the grain of previous research by suggesting that alcohol-induced brain damage does not stop when alcohol use ends. Instead, the harmful effects of alcohol may continue during abstinence. The findings have important implications for the process of recovery from alcohol dependence.”
In other words, the negative impact of an alcohol disorder on the brain can continue after committing to a life of sobriety.

This is not to mention that excessive alcohol use leads to approximately 241 deaths every day and 2.5 million years of potential life lost each year in the United States from 2006-2010, shortening the lives of those who died by an average of 30 years. Excessive drinking was responsible for 1 in 10 deaths among working-age adults aged 20-64 years. And the economic costs of excessive alcohol consumption in 2010 (the latest figures available) were estimated at $249 billion.

Jesus said:

“The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly” (John 10:10)

The first part of Jesus’ saying fits the many outcomes of alcohol use and abuse. It’s a thief that can steal, kill, and destroy. But the mission of Christ is to give life and to give life more abundantly. The two purposes are diametrically opposed to each other.

Providing a Christian witness in a bar, I would say, is legitimate if the goal is to get people out of there. If its purpose is to get folks away from the bar so they can be instructed, encouraged, and held accountable for a holy life, that’s a worthy objective. But to set up God’s house in the devil’s lair where people are continuously subjected to temptations that steal, kill and destroy life, is a misapplication of Christian missions.

As seen here at Christian Action League of North Carolina. Posted here with permission.
Church in a Bar? br By Dr. Mark Creech - April 14,... (show quote)

Reply
Apr 14, 2019 17:23:29   #
bahmer
 
Zemirah wrote:
Hi bahmer,

I normally agree with everything you post, and I understand you didn't write this; to me, this organization reeks of sanctimonious self-righteousness.

The Christian Action League of North Carolina, where this editorial originated, "had its beginning in the days of prohibition and grew out of the Anti-Saloon movement."

They sound like the Religious Police of Saudi Arabia whose declared purpose is the enforcement of enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong or promotion of virtue and prevention of vice.

The ekklesia, i.e., the universal "called out" congregation of believers who are the Body of Christ are called to 1) worship God, and 2) to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ, and to listen to our own conscience.

Given a choice between their headquarters and a neighborhood bar as a location to discuss the gospel of Jesus Christ with those lost sinners for whom Jesus said He had come, I would choose the latter.

Just as Jesus chose to eat and drink with publicans and tax collectors, who were considered the dregs of His society, and was accordingly called a drunkard and a glutton by the self-righteous Pharisees whom He scorned and upbraided, I find it hard to picture Jesus as acceptable to the Christian Action League, who proclaim that they chase away the darkness of life with a combination of "the Gospel of Christ and the law of God."

It cannot be both, for the Scripture makes it clear that "it is He who made us capable of serving the New Covenant, which consists not of a written law but of the Holy Spirit. The written law brings death, but the Holy Spirit gives life." (2nd Corinthians 3:6)


The following information regarding their history is online:

The Christian Action League of North Carolina is a Christian public policy organization representing conservative evangelicals from seventeen denominations in the Tar Heel state.

It has its roots in the days of prohibition and grew out of the Anti-Saloon movement. In 1937, during the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina in Wilmington, a committee was formed to meet with the leadership of other denominations for the express purpose of forming an interdenominational, statewide organization that could effectively address the state’s alcohol policy. Thus was formed The Allied Church League.

In 1958, however, the charter of the organization was amended to expand the scope of its ministry. No longer would the League simply address alcohol policy, but would also address all matters of public-policy it deemed pertinent to protecting and sustaining a righteous culture. This is when the name was changed from the Allied Church League to the Christian Action League of North Carolina.

Today the Christian Action League has representatives serving on its Advisory Board from nearly all 100 counties in the Tar Heel state. It has the largest network of members, volunteers, and churches of any Christian public-policy group in North Carolina.

The Christian Action League helps communities with advice and assistance regarding local option alcohol referendums to sexually oriented businesses. It has a full-time lobbying presence in the North Carolina General Assembly and works with lawmakers concerning a host of issues: America’s Christian heritage, religious liberty, biomedical ethics, marriage and family, substance abuse, gambling, pornography, race relations, the sanctity of human life, etc.

One of the Christian Action League’s most important ministries is training, developing and motivating followers of Christ to be involved in the political process. Jesus commanded believers to be “salt” and “light” (St. Matthew 5:13,14). As “salt” Christians have a persevering effect on culture – they keep the world from becoming completely rotten. As “light” they expose the evils of their day, as well as chase away the darkness of life with the Gospel of Christ and the law of God.

Rev. Mark H. Creech, Executive Director
Hi bahmer, br br I normally agree with everythin... (show quote)


I just thought that it was a thought provoking message and depending on ones convictions could go either way. I myself do drink and I see nothing wrong with it but when I was attending a baptist church with my late wife and children they saw drinking as totally against God. But after attending there for a number of years I observed that a number of the congregation also enjoyed occasionally having a drink or two or three. But I do remember the bible passages that you brought up and the accusations from the scribes and pharisees that Christ was a drunkard and fellowshipped with sinners as well. Yhanks for the enlightenment of this group of believers.

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