Iliamna1

Been thinking about you and sent you a new message. 1Ili

rumitoid

Thank you. Sorry, but I can't read it right now, I am quite upset and would not do it justice. This wonderful and spirited debate has been attacked. How many pages with people just respectfully sharing their hearts and souls on this very difficult topic without anyone stooping to insults or making it all about politics. Some fierce disagreements that never led to any recriminations or name-calling, simply airing firmly held beliefs as to what they see as t***h. One of those extremely rare occasions on OPP where nothing but civility and decency reigned (though exchanges have been better of late on other topics). It truly sickened me.

Iliamna1

I'm so sorry you've been wounded. I think I have a thicker hide than most people and am not so reactive.
It almost always comes down to praying and forgiving. I love I Cor 1:2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our affliction so that we will be able to comfort those who are in any affliction with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 5 For just as the sufferings of Christ are ours in abundance, so also our comfort is abundant through Christ. 6 But if we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; or if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which is effective in the patient enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer; 7 and our hope for you is firmly grounded, knowing that as you are sharers of our sufferings, so also you are sharers of our comfort.

The word for comfort in Greek is parakaleo, as in to come along side. I have found a Faithful Friend in the Lord, who has often come along side me in my times of distress. Knowing Him has certainly strengthened me and giving me the ability to overlook and forgive others when needed, and I hope they will also forgive me. Trust me! I am far from angelic. Good Bible doctrine equipts the saints to live for Him. Ili.

Rose42

This was a good thread. My thanks to you for starting it and to all those who've shared.

debeda

Second that, Rose

rumitoid

For maybe the first time here I felt like I actually contributed something truly worthwhile, almost completely because the sharing was incredible on so many levels. All posters were respectful, thoughtful, civil, honest, and caring. Fierce disagreements at times were met without any rancor and only decency. A sterling marvel of debate! I learned a great deal and felt I drew close to a number of people. Maybe just one person being insulting and reducing all the heart-felt sharing to be subject to political view, and some agreeing with that, was being too thin-skinned and reactive to be upset. I guess it was my open anticipation that such debate would continue in the same upstanding way that caught me off guard.

When the h**e and insults start, it draws others of the same ilk like a primer. It is just my opinion that when that type of poster arrives, even if from our side of the aisle, we courteously advise them to please refrain from name-calling and the like, but that their opinion is still welcome on the issue. This did not happen.

Iliamna1

I think there hs been sufficient said about his post and disagree with your "opinion that when that type of poster arrives, even if from our side of the aisle, we courteously advise them to please refrain from name-calling and the like, but that their opinion is still welcome on the issue. This did not happen."
It DID happen when you posted that.
Also, when I posted my response, I would not have called people 'dumkoffs', but would have admonished them "to become wise." I suspect he's feeling a bit chagrined about that at this point.
I've seen those movies before and they carry a dire warning about the dispassionate cheapening of human life that's seriously frightening that occurred during the Weimar Republic, and much of the same is going on again, today. But I'm getting on another soap box.

rumitoid

He hijacked the tread for a Right Wing political agenda, turning anyone who had doubts or perhaps favored assisted suicide for deep personal feelings and experience into SS officers acting to euthanize for the government. He ended a civil debate with the condemnation of all that did not agree with his view of where assisted suicide may lead as being the agenda of state sponsored death. Yes, the N**i government murdered--out of political gain. That was not under discussion but made what many said about the dilemma appear as a stepping stone to it.

His point could have been well-taken. Is it a slippery slope? I even suggested that twice in this thread. Yet he made it fact, complete with videos that really said nothing about the subject but impressed quite a few. Fear tactics. Had he instead reasonably argued his point, I would have welcomed it. That was not the case. He used propaganda to discredit every different voice but his own on the topic, those who disagreed were Dummkopfs.

This debate has left me unsure. I consider myself a Christian and deeply appreciate those who argued from faith on the issue. It not merely made me think but turn more deeply to prayer. And I feel that some here not of faith were brought to give the subject greater consideration, and perhaps be more approachable to what Christ has to offer. That is what happens when we come together in respect and listen to each other: we let the other voices in that we once may not have tolerated. There was safe place created to hear each other out without the need to defend or promote an agenda. His actions are ruining OPP and dividing America. His post helped dig trenches on both sides.

Common_Sense_Matters

Some people are just like that, don't let it get you down so much, I completely ignored him.

rumitoid

My view on this "breach" of civility to this thread may be far out of line. Too many years where his type of post ruled the day on almost every topic. Things have somewhat changed here. I see more true debate and a lessening of insult. Perhaps foolishly felt that era was past. The shock is wearing off a bit.

Iliamna1

YOU are NOT a DUMKOFF !!! PERIOD.

Common_Sense_Matters

That's good.

rumitoid

Danke, Iliamna, but I can be. You are a good friend.

servanttk

TOTALLY AGREE

CounterRevolutionary

Debeda, I believe you 100%. These sugar substitutes literally shut my brain down. Real sugar from sugarcane or corm syrup or beets is necessary to relay electrical impulses from our nerves to our brains. In fact, fats are also very necessary to coat our raw nerves. The recommendations coming from HHS are notoriously wrong on diets and nutrition.

If people have trouble with alcohol, (that's another story that often occurs from ciguatera fish toxins) then cook the sugar. I live on boiled lemon tea with sugar.

Fish toxins are undetectable with current medical tests, but I strongly suspect they are responsible for multiple sclerosis and ALS since the chairman of the National MS Society, Dr. Byron Waksman, was also employed at the fish biological research center at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. Byron Waksman writes in his book: "Research on Multiple Sclerosis" that there are several components to the MS disease, including Lyme Disease.

Being a bit suspicious of our medical community and the government, I suspect no public attention is made to the fish toxins, red tides, green algae blooms (Demonic Acid), and shell fish poisons since they have uses in military t***h serums. Both Drs Byron Waksman and his father Selman Waksman were working for the US Army Medical Corp during WWII and possibly afterwards so they would not be so open with their own research.

But think back in human history how our ancestors beat it through droughts, famines, ice ages, wars and plagues. What did they know that we don't know now? Take a look at each civilization's cooking heritage from the Old World to the New World and the preservatives they used for their food: tea, tannic acid, sugars, salt, spices such as cinnamon from tree barks, citric acid, vinegar for pickling, iodine in kelp and zinc in potato skins as an antibiotic and chelator to combine with toxins. The native American Indians used honey and maple sugar to preserve sausages, as well as sweet potatoes (a source or cortisone) to fight autoimmune diseases.

And today, we have the Internet, courtesy of Al Gore (snicker) where we can more readily share our knowledge. And, once we rid ourselves of mental dependency on the pessimistic government healthcare, we may advance science to its fullest potential in the private sector. There have been more discoveries in science over the past 200 years since the American Revolution freeing people to think and research than the past 100,000 years of human serfdom and s***ery. This is not the time for suicide, but the time to be most optimistic.

Go for the goodies: sugar, caffeine, and nicotine - candy, coffee and cigarettes (if not in tobacco, eat tomatoes, potatoes, cabbage family and peppers) that built this nation. Just cook everything and k**l it first. I pray to God that you are married to a good cook!