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Assisted Suicide: yea or nay?
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Mar 31, 2019 14:55:20   #
Lt. Rob Polans ret.
 
rumitoid wrote:
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mother and sister died in agony for an extended period of time from cancer. If either had asked for help to the other side, I would have helped, though never suggest it. (As I know now, a peaceful extra dose of morphine would have done it.) But we were very Catholic. It was thought to be murder. And there was also the belief that God would find it in his mercy for a cure. I guess more than it would be murder as a deterrent, turning one's back on hope and God's power was a more effective argument.

In 1989, I went for a Hospice Degree. What I learned over the next four years, both in class and in hospitals, made me advocate for assisted suicide, even in cases of Alzheimer. But I am still not totally comfortable with my belief. Mostly that it can become a slippery slope and, like the presence of a******n, might inculcate a decrease in the sacredness of life. Or not. Maybe increase it.

If you were in extreme agony and told there was no possible cure, your family forced to see you tortured day after day after day and unable to help, what would you do and why?
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mothe... (show quote)


My father in law was dying of cancer, my wife and I were in the next room. What would I do (oh, he died within a short time). Considering the thousands of veterans committing suicide each day, I have an 'I'll assist when hell freezes over' attitude. I do see the other side of the argument though.

Reply
Mar 31, 2019 19:43:31   #
teabag09
 
rumitoid wrote:
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mother and sister died in agony for an extended period of time from cancer. If either had asked for help to the other side, I would have helped, though never suggest it. (As I know now, a peaceful extra dose of morphine would have done it.) But we were very Catholic. It was thought to be murder. And there was also the belief that God would find it in his mercy for a cure. I guess more than it would be murder as a deterrent, turning one's back on hope and God's power was a more effective argument.

In 1989, I went for a Hospice Degree. What I learned over the next four years, both in class and in hospitals, made me advocate for assisted suicide, even in cases of Alzheimer. But I am still not totally comfortable with my belief. Mostly that it can become a slippery slope and, like the presence of a******n, might inculcate a decrease in the sacredness of life. Or not. Maybe increase it.

If you were in extreme agony and told there was no possible cure, your family forced to see you tortured day after day after day and unable to help, what would you do and why?
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mothe... (show quote)


Rumi, my condolences. I know somewhat of what you went through you. Being the eldest son it was my responsibility to argue before a panel of doctors, lawyers and Religious representatives to pull the plug on my Father. My Mother was incapable of doing anything other than to sit through this inquisition. It was brutal for all of us but it was what my Father, a 30 year Marine, would have wanted as he'd of been brain dead and on a breathing machine if they could have save him.

Life and death are sometimes meaning having to deal with the bad times as well as the good times. That's why we ALL should take advantage of the good times while we have them because we all know that sometime down the road we'll have to deal with the not so happy things.

I have no problem with assisted suicide. It's much better than blowing your brains out in a bath tub. Mike

Reply
Mar 31, 2019 20:54:29   #
Ferrous Loc: Pacific North Coast, CA
 
rumitoid wrote:
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mother and sister died in agony for an extended period of time from cancer. If either had asked for help to the other side, I would have helped, though never suggest it. (As I know now, a peaceful extra dose of morphine would have done it.) But we were very Catholic. It was thought to be murder. And there was also the belief that God would find it in his mercy for a cure. I guess more than it would be murder as a deterrent, turning one's back on hope and God's power was a more effective argument.

In 1989, I went for a Hospice Degree. What I learned over the next four years, both in class and in hospitals, made me advocate for assisted suicide, even in cases of Alzheimer. But I am still not totally comfortable with my belief. Mostly that it can become a slippery slope and, like the presence of a******n, might inculcate a decrease in the sacredness of life. Or not. Maybe increase it.

If you were in extreme agony and told there was no possible cure, your family forced to see you tortured day after day after day and unable to help, what would you do and why?
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mothe... (show quote)


A Slippery Slope... It could be used in an unethical way by those that might gain by the persons death. My family was in that situation with my father. He wanted to die in his own bed, in his own home, and in his own terms... but a care nurse took him out of the home to the hospital, operated on him to clear his bowels, he had a stroke, and lost sense of who he was. He had to be rotated every 2 hours to prevent bed sore, confined to a hospital bed, served only a liquid diet and where diapers... I asked the nurse why they were retuning him in this condition but she only replied that they couldn't do anymore for him and was sending what was left of him home. He received 24 hour care from us, my sisters helping out and a care nurse and Hospice. The choice was keep him at home or completely use up what ever he had saved.


Thankfully, with the help of Hospice he lasted only just a little over a year... The sad thing was he really didn't recognize us but would ramble about all the things he did in the Navy... Stories we had heard long ago, over and over and over.

I agree, Assisted Suicide" should only be considered when the patient has no chance of recovery, their life has passed them by, and they are a serious burden to others. Pain is not an option because of the paink**lers they use.

It's really difficult to see a Loved One in this condition and having Lost all Hope, and Wishing for an Resolution.

Reply
 
 
Mar 31, 2019 20:57:29   #
debeda
 
sisboombaa wrote:
I went through hell watching both my parents suffer prior to death; my father for 5 years and my mother for one year. Death happens to all and to suffer for years before the inevitable is inhumane. Just my opinion based on my experiences. I will take my own life if the pain becomes too much and there is no other avenue for relief. However, I am old and useless so it is an easy decision for me. Every person should be free to decide for themselves. Hospice is a blessing.


Perfect answer. Except the old and useless part. You aren't useless!

Reply
Mar 31, 2019 23:29:40   #
teabag09
 
Went though it with my dad and sister. Had to be my choice. I had to k**l them but it was their choice. Hard to do but I would like for someone to do the same for me. I have no fear of death. Mike

Reply
Mar 31, 2019 23:40:16   #
Nickolai
 
sisboombaa wrote:
I went through hell watching both my parents suffer prior to death; my father for 5 years and my mother for one year. Death happens to all and to suffer for years before the inevitable is inhumane. Just my opinion based on my experiences. I will take my own life if the pain becomes too much and there is no other avenue for relief. However, I am old and useless so it is an easy decision for me. Every person should be free to decide for themselves. Hospice is a blessing.






My father died from lung cancer that had metastasized to the brain Liver ct. y mother was trying to pry his teeth apart with a spoon to feed him when he began turning gray and stopped breathing

Reply
Apr 1, 2019 00:58:13   #
Iliamna1
 
Respect or disrespect for human life . . . Now there's a gnarly question we all have to face some day. I personally don't believe that it's a sin to die from natural causes, when a person perceives their life is drawing to an end. I worked in cardiac ICU with patients who were terrified to die and they and their families wanted everything possible done to 'save' them or prolong their lives. I've also worked with many people who have opted for a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) and that order was always respected and those patients were referred to hospice care.
I have a problem with people who feel that health care professionals should be actively FORCED to participate in euthanasia.. Most of us got in the profession to alleviate pain and suffering and when euthanasia becomes a mandated professional duty, you will see an exodus of some of the finest medical and nursing practioners. You do so at your own peril!
For myself, I have a DNR order, and my family and various physicians all are acutely aware of this.
I had something really amazing happen to me last year and perhaps this experience may have some bearing on your own choice. . .
As many of you on OPP know, I am a born-again Christian. I am also nearly 70 years old and last year, I was diagnosed with severe c****ary artery disease and was told I needed an emergency cardiac bypass and graft x 4 vessels. This was totally unexpected as I wasn't having any chest pain, shortness of breath and just needed a cardiac clearance to have my knees replaced. On April 23 last year, the bypass was done. Two days later, at 4 a.m. I was rudely awakened when all the staff rushed into my room and started trying to shock my heart back into a sinus rhythm. I read EKGs quite well and could see I was in atrial fibrillation. Throughout this whole episode I was awake and fully oriented. Then all of a sudden, with no premature ventricular contractions to forewarn anyone, my heart rate plummeted to 19 beats per minute and my blood pressure was 40/20 and I was still alert and oriented. Usually, a person with vital signs like that are unconscious. I was talking appropriately to the staff. At no time did I feel afraid, although my prayer was for my family and stating to the Lord "I think I'll be with you soon" and thanking Him for my life. I had an onset of AWESOME peace and, somehow, I knew I wasn't going to die that day. They quickly wheeled me to surgery to put in a pacemaker and I recovered. I remember every detail of that morning.
I do believe there is an appointed time for each of us to die, but standing in front a freight train is not a legitimate reassignment of that appointed time.

Another issue is the disrespect for human life. The Germans started with a******n, then they went on to infanticide, then they determined people in asylums were 'less than worthy' and gassed them in trucks, and we know historically what happened after that. They were nearly done k*****g off the Jews and were planning on k*****g off the Polish people after them, but WW II ended before their 'Liebenstrom" dreams could be carried out. They murdered 8 million innocent people by the time their bloodthirst was stopped. AND THEIR FIRST VICTEMS WERE THE UNBORN who were never counted in the holocaust. Their hearts were hardened, just as the hearts of modern day Americans are being hardened.

They even made films about how 'just' and 'compassionate' euthanasia was.
In 1941, Ich Klage An, or I Accuse, succeeded in convincing thousands of Germans to agree with the N**i’s T4 program, which mandated the mass execution of people with terminal illnesses and disabilities.The story centers around a beautiful young woman who is married to a doctor who is finally moving up in his career. She is sweet, cheerful, and the perfect example of a German housewife. Tragedy strikes the couple when she is diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.After suffering bouts of unbearable pain, she begs her husband to give her a lethal injection so that she can end her suffering and die before she becomes a burden on his life. He agrees to k**l her, and the rest of the movie debates whether assisted suicide should be legal.The N**is used this debate to divert attention from the fact that they were k*****g people with mental and physical disabilities without the patients’ consent. The N**is did not want the public to believe that disabilities could be overcome and that people could live happy, productive lives despite their handicaps. (I took this off the internet) There are many other k*****g movies the Germans made to propagandize their people. You can look for yourselves.
By the way, I am still a "DNR" as is my right, but I will never ask anyone to euthanize me. That day is appointed as He directs.

Reply
 
 
Apr 1, 2019 01:24:16   #
debeda
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
Respect or disrespect for human life . . . Now there's a gnarly question we all have to face some day. I personally don't believe that it's a sin to die from natural causes, when a person perceives their life is drawing to an end. I worked in cardiac ICU with patients who were terrified to die and they and their families wanted everything possible done to 'save' them or prolong their lives. I've also worked with many people who have opted for a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) and that order was always respected and those patients were referred to hospice care.
I have a problem with people who feel that health care professionals should be actively FORCED to participate in euthanasia.. Most of us got in the profession to alleviate pain and suffering and when euthanasia becomes a mandated professional duty, you will see an exodus of some of the finest medical and nursing practioners. You do so at your own peril!
For myself, I have a DNR order, and my family and various physicians all are acutely aware of this.
I had something really amazing happen to me last year and perhaps this experience may have some bearing on your own choice. . .
As many of you on OPP know, I am a born-again Christian. I am also nearly 70 years old and last year, I was diagnosed with severe c****ary artery disease and was told I needed an emergency cardiac bypass and graft x 4 vessels. This was totally unexpected as I wasn't having any chest pain, shortness of breath and just needed a cardiac clearance to have my knees replaced. On April 23 last year, the bypass was done. Two days later, at 4 a.m. I was rudely awakened when all the staff rushed into my room and started trying to shock my heart back into a sinus rhythm. I read EKGs quite well and could see I was in atrial fibrillation. Throughout this whole episode I was awake and fully oriented. Then all of a sudden, with no premature ventricular contractions to forewarn anyone, my heart rate plummeted to 19 beats per minute and my blood pressure was 40/20 and I was still alert and oriented. Usually, a person with vital signs like that are unconscious. I was talking appropriately to the staff. At no time did I feel afraid, although my prayer was for my family and stating to the Lord "I think I'll be with you soon" and thanking Him for my life. I had an onset of AWESOME peace and, somehow, I knew I wasn't going to die that day. They quickly wheeled me to surgery to put in a pacemaker and I recovered. I remember every detail of that morning.
I do believe there is an appointed time for each of us to die, but standing in front a freight train is not a legitimate reassignment of that appointed time.

Another issue is the disrespect for human life. The Germans started with a******n, then they went on to infanticide, then they determined people in asylums were 'less than worthy' and gassed them in trucks, and we know historically what happened after that. They were nearly done k*****g off the Jews and were planning on k*****g off the Polish people after them, but WW II ended before their 'Liebenstrom" dreams could be carried out. They murdered 8 million innocent people by the time their bloodthirst was stopped. AND THEIR FIRST VICTEMS WERE THE UNBORN who were never counted in the holocaust. Their hearts were hardened, just as the hearts of modern day Americans are being hardened.

They even made films about how 'just' and 'compassionate' euthanasia was.
In 1941, Ich Klage An, or I Accuse, succeeded in convincing thousands of Germans to agree with the N**i’s T4 program, which mandated the mass execution of people with terminal illnesses and disabilities.The story centers around a beautiful young woman who is married to a doctor who is finally moving up in his career. She is sweet, cheerful, and the perfect example of a German housewife. Tragedy strikes the couple when she is diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.After suffering bouts of unbearable pain, she begs her husband to give her a lethal injection so that she can end her suffering and die before she becomes a burden on his life. He agrees to k**l her, and the rest of the movie debates whether assisted suicide should be legal.The N**is used this debate to divert attention from the fact that they were k*****g people with mental and physical disabilities without the patients’ consent. The N**is did not want the public to believe that disabilities could be overcome and that people could live happy, productive lives despite their handicaps. (I took this off the internet) There are many other k*****g movies the Germans made to propagandize their people. You can look for yourselves.
By the way, I am still a "DNR" as is my right, but I will never ask anyone to euthanize me. That day is appointed as He directs.
Respect or disrespect for human life . . . Now the... (show quote)


GREAT story, thanks for sharing

Reply
Apr 1, 2019 01:35:37   #
debeda
 
rumitoid wrote:
Thank you for your honesty. It is a very difficult question to answer. Last month I had a heart attack and was diagnosed with A-fib. I have been dutifully taking all the drugs prescribed and other instructions but decided to end that. Is that a sin? I will let nature take its course. As you said, my decision and I agree that everyone should have that decision. Hospice is a wonder.


Did you at least research other avenues to control the afib? Also, giving up on yourself is not letting nature take its course. If you were in agonizing pain, or vegetative that's one thing. But to just give up on yourself? Why? There is wonder to be had at all times in your life. Also many things to be learned up until the day you die. That one insight, that you share. Moments of fun, and grace, and curiosity. Dont let fear of death, or rather the manner of death, push you into trying to take control of it. IMO

Reply
Apr 1, 2019 01:36:37   #
debeda
 
teabag09 wrote:
Went though it with my dad and sister. Had to be my choice. I had to k**l them but it was their choice. Hard to do but I would like for someone to do the same for me. I have no fear of death. Mike


So sad for you

Reply
Apr 1, 2019 01:38:56   #
debeda
 
Rose42 wrote:
If it destroys faith then saving faith was never there to begin with.

If somewhere in the bible the apostles helped someone die or mentioned it I would think differently. I see no justification for taking a life that way. I do see mentions of trials to test and strengthen faith.


Perhaps the faith comes from enduring and knowing theres a soul purpose for it

Reply
 
 
Apr 1, 2019 01:43:47   #
debeda
 
Texas T***h wrote:
All you people have done an excellent job of discussing one of the most controversial and intriguing questions that be Holdings us all. As you have all discussed DNR do not resuscitate is a decision made by the person suffering. Is this decision a mistake and should the doctors continue to try to say the person because all life is precious. But let's say you had a heart attack due to AFib. So after this happens you decide to take an aspirin a day to prevent another episode. Question? If you take an aspirin a day as part of your regimen are you interfering with the Lord's plans for you? Trying to escape death per se. Does the Lord have a calendar with our date of birth and a date of passing? Are we allowed to intervene to make a decision so we may live a second longer or that we may leave a second earlier? We can discuss this every second of every day for the rest of our lives and never come up with an answer. Or we'll come up with many answers. Is it true in a good Christians heart to be compelled to fight for your own life all the way up to the last second or to be able to make the decision to lay down and rest because you've earned a good rest due to your good fight. If you can no longer participate in the good fight physically you can still participate by sharing wisdom with younger people hoping they will hear words of wisdom and change their life early and live a better life through Christ. We can only try to plant that little mustard seed and when it grows into a person it becomes the main route of life and t***h and wisdom. I think the most important and compelling thing a person can do is to accept Christ as Lord and savior and champion and live your life through him and to love him as he loves you. We cannot understand the overwhelming love Jesus has for us. I watched both my parents suffered to the end keeping and holding my faith in Jesus. My mom went first. And then my dad went due to complications not from the COPD but by carelessness due to the caregivers. My dad asked 4 DNR. I had to respect his decision and was there to last moment. I knew it was coming and was deep in prayer and I asked Jesus for a sign and upon the moment of my Dad's passing I felt and I believe this to be true with every fiber in my heart and mind that the Christ came and took my dad and then they walked right through my body and upon that moment I could feel what my dad was feeling on the other side of the Veil. It was the most overwhelming feeling of love and comfort I ever experienced at any point in my life and I knew my dad was okay. The feeling was there for 2 seconds but felt like an eternity. The Christ took away all my pain my suffering my agony my anxiety all melted in the twinkling of an eye. This only reinforced my true belief and my love for the Christ. I know we could caught bickering with each other here on the political Plaza. I believe the word political needs to be left out of critical thinking. What is right is right what is wrong is wrong it's all black and white. We have argued in the past and insult each other which is what Satan wants us to do. King of deception and lies cast aside and left behind and no longer exists in the heart of a good Christian. I pray and wish that all good things will come to all you good people and that all you good people can forgive each other as the Lord would ask. Remember what Jesus said, when you relieve another man of his burden you help yourself in ways you do not know. I do anything and everything I can to help my fellow man. My experience in pain management due to my lower back issues which I think cannot be reversed all I can do is share my wisdom and help those do not know what to do at a point in time in their life and only to help them make their own decision and to treat them as I would treat a family member with love and compassion as the Christ would. It is always darkest just before the dawn. The Christ is real. He is the real deal in the greatest thing that's happened in the history of man. Notice how our leaders try to drive a wedge between us in him. Jesus drove the Romans crazy and feared him because he had no fear in them. Christ be with you all in all of your days. And all of God's children said Amen!
All you people have done an excellent job of discu... (show quote)


EXCELLENT post, Texas T***h! Thanks

Reply
Apr 1, 2019 06:21:28   #
jSmitty45 Loc: Fl born, lived in Texas 30 yrs, now Louisiana
 
padremike wrote:
For the True Christian this is not a hard choice. Christ was offered a pain k**ler as he hung on the Cross and He declined. His death, however, was more painful than our own could ever be in that He took unto Himself all the sins of mankind. There have been many souls who, suffering extremely painful deaths, gave their pain to Jesus as an offering for the sacrifice He paid for them. Others have elected palliative options. Assisted suicide is never an option. It is always a sin. That you still feel some degree of discomfort about it is good because it says you still retain some measure of conscience. The unfortunate T***h is that a society that consumes more illegal mind bending, escapism and pain k*****g drugs than any other nation in the world in the world, partnered with a medical profession that promotes Dr. Death, to some degree, physician contracted k**lers will be in great demand within 20 years. It's already being done in the name, of all things, humanity and no one says anything about it.
For the True Christian this is not a hard choice. ... (show quote)


Agree with you on this. No one suffered more than Christ, and he did it willingly to save us from our sins. No one could have suffered as he, and we sure are not worthy, but by his death on the cross, we can accept that sacrifice, and be saved by believing, he is who says he is, that he died for us all. I saw my mom suffer for years, and she tried not to complain too much. I believe when we suffer, he makes us stronger to endure that pain. I don't think we have the right to take our own lives. I believe suicide is sin, God gives life, and only he has the right to take it.

Reply
Apr 1, 2019 06:53:46   #
Rose42
 
Iliamna1 wrote:
Respect or disrespect for human life . . . Now there's a gnarly question we all have to face some day. I personally don't believe that it's a sin to die from natural causes, when a person perceives their life is drawing to an end. I worked in cardiac ICU with patients who were terrified to die and they and their families wanted everything possible done to 'save' them or prolong their lives. I've also worked with many people who have opted for a DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) and that order was always respected and those patients were referred to hospice care.
I have a problem with people who feel that health care professionals should be actively FORCED to participate in euthanasia.. Most of us got in the profession to alleviate pain and suffering and when euthanasia becomes a mandated professional duty, you will see an exodus of some of the finest medical and nursing practioners. You do so at your own peril!
For myself, I have a DNR order, and my family and various physicians all are acutely aware of this.
I had something really amazing happen to me last year and perhaps this experience may have some bearing on your own choice. . .
As many of you on OPP know, I am a born-again Christian. I am also nearly 70 years old and last year, I was diagnosed with severe c****ary artery disease and was told I needed an emergency cardiac bypass and graft x 4 vessels. This was totally unexpected as I wasn't having any chest pain, shortness of breath and just needed a cardiac clearance to have my knees replaced. On April 23 last year, the bypass was done. Two days later, at 4 a.m. I was rudely awakened when all the staff rushed into my room and started trying to shock my heart back into a sinus rhythm. I read EKGs quite well and could see I was in atrial fibrillation. Throughout this whole episode I was awake and fully oriented. Then all of a sudden, with no premature ventricular contractions to forewarn anyone, my heart rate plummeted to 19 beats per minute and my blood pressure was 40/20 and I was still alert and oriented. Usually, a person with vital signs like that are unconscious. I was talking appropriately to the staff. At no time did I feel afraid, although my prayer was for my family and stating to the Lord "I think I'll be with you soon" and thanking Him for my life. I had an onset of AWESOME peace and, somehow, I knew I wasn't going to die that day. They quickly wheeled me to surgery to put in a pacemaker and I recovered. I remember every detail of that morning.
I do believe there is an appointed time for each of us to die, but standing in front a freight train is not a legitimate reassignment of that appointed time.

Another issue is the disrespect for human life. The Germans started with a******n, then they went on to infanticide, then they determined people in asylums were 'less than worthy' and gassed them in trucks, and we know historically what happened after that. They were nearly done k*****g off the Jews and were planning on k*****g off the Polish people after them, but WW II ended before their 'Liebenstrom" dreams could be carried out. They murdered 8 million innocent people by the time their bloodthirst was stopped. AND THEIR FIRST VICTEMS WERE THE UNBORN who were never counted in the holocaust. Their hearts were hardened, just as the hearts of modern day Americans are being hardened.

They even made films about how 'just' and 'compassionate' euthanasia was.
In 1941, Ich Klage An, or I Accuse, succeeded in convincing thousands of Germans to agree with the N**i’s T4 program, which mandated the mass execution of people with terminal illnesses and disabilities.The story centers around a beautiful young woman who is married to a doctor who is finally moving up in his career. She is sweet, cheerful, and the perfect example of a German housewife. Tragedy strikes the couple when she is diagnosed with multiple sclerosis.After suffering bouts of unbearable pain, she begs her husband to give her a lethal injection so that she can end her suffering and die before she becomes a burden on his life. He agrees to k**l her, and the rest of the movie debates whether assisted suicide should be legal.The N**is used this debate to divert attention from the fact that they were k*****g people with mental and physical disabilities without the patients’ consent. The N**is did not want the public to believe that disabilities could be overcome and that people could live happy, productive lives despite their handicaps. (I took this off the internet) There are many other k*****g movies the Germans made to propagandize their people. You can look for yourselves.
By the way, I am still a "DNR" as is my right, but I will never ask anyone to euthanize me. That day is appointed as He directs.
Respect or disrespect for human life . . . Now the... (show quote)


Thank you for sharing that.

Reply
Apr 1, 2019 06:58:58   #
Rose42
 
debeda wrote:
Perhaps the faith comes from enduring and knowing theres a soul purpose for it


It can definitely strengthen faith. I can’t imagine the added agony of not believing in God and the uncertainty of life after death.

Reply
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