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Assisted Suicide: yea or nay?
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Mar 30, 2019 20:36:13   #
rumitoid (a regular here)
 
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mother and sister died in agony for an extended period of time from cancer. If either had asked for help to the other side, I would have helped, though never suggest it. (As I know now, a peaceful extra dose of morphine would have done it.) But we were very Catholic. It was thought to be murder. And there was also the belief that God would find it in his mercy for a cure. I guess more than it would be murder as a deterrent, turning one's back on hope and God's power was a more effective argument.

In 1989, I went for a Hospice Degree. What I learned over the next four years, both in class and in hospitals, made me advocate for assisted suicide, even in cases of Alzheimer. But I am still not totally comfortable with my belief. Mostly that it can become a slippery slope and, like the presence of abortion, might inculcate a decrease in the sacredness of life. Or not. Maybe increase it.

If you were in extreme agony and told there was no possible cure, your family forced to see you tortured day after day after day and unable to help, what would you do and why?

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Mar 30, 2019 20:48:03   #
proud republican (a regular here)
 
rumitoid wrote:
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mother and sister died in agony for an extended period of time from cancer. If either had asked for help to the other side, I would have helped, though never suggest it. (As I know now, a peaceful extra dose of morphine would have done it.) But we were very Catholic. It was thought to be murder. And there was also the belief that God would find it in his mercy for a cure. I guess more than it would be murder as a deterrent, turning one's back on hope and God's power was a more effective argument.

In 1989, I went for a Hospice Degree. What I learned over the next four years, both in class and in hospitals, made me advocate for assisted suicide, even in cases of Alzheimer. But I am still not totally comfortable with my belief. Mostly that it can become a slippery slope and, like the presence of abortion, might inculcate a decrease in the sacredness of life. Or not. Maybe increase it.

If you were in extreme agony and told there was no possible cure, your family forced to see you tortured day after day after day and unable to help, what would you do and why?
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mothe... (show quote)


Yes,if you are DNR and in agonizing pain!!!

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Mar 30, 2019 21:02:47   #
Rose42 (a regular here)
 
No I wouldn’t do it and I’ve been in a position to. Its not up to us to determine when someone dies. What if through that person even one soul could be saved? Directly or indirectly. This is eternity we’re talking about.

I remember a young woman whose name escapes me was dying of cancer and her father was saved before she passed away. She said it was worth the agony to have her father saved.

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Mar 30, 2019 21:04:00   #
sisboombaa (a regular here)
 
I went through hell watching both my parents suffer prior to death; my father for 5 years and my mother for one year. Death happens to all and to suffer for years before the inevitable is inhumane. Just my opinion based on my experiences. I will take my own life if the pain becomes too much and there is no other avenue for relief. However, I am old and useless so it is an easy decision for me. Every person should be free to decide for themselves. Hospice is a blessing.

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Mar 30, 2019 21:25:26   #
Wonttakeitanymore (a regular here)
 
U r never useless! Unless ur a vegetable!

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Mar 30, 2019 21:28:18   #
padremike (a regular here)
 
rumitoid wrote:
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mother and sister died in agony for an extended period of time from cancer. If either had asked for help to the other side, I would have helped, though never suggest it. (As I know now, a peaceful extra dose of morphine would have done it.) But we were very Catholic. It was thought to be murder. And there was also the belief that God would find it in his mercy for a cure. I guess more than it would be murder as a deterrent, turning one's back on hope and God's power was a more effective argument.

In 1989, I went for a Hospice Degree. What I learned over the next four years, both in class and in hospitals, made me advocate for assisted suicide, even in cases of Alzheimer. But I am still not totally comfortable with my belief. Mostly that it can become a slippery slope and, like the presence of abortion, might inculcate a decrease in the sacredness of life. Or not. Maybe increase it.

If you were in extreme agony and told there was no possible cure, your family forced to see you tortured day after day after day and unable to help, what would you do and why?
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mothe... (show quote)


For the True Christian this is not a hard choice. Christ was offered a pain killer as he hung on the Cross and He declined. His death, however, was more painful than our own could ever be in that He took unto Himself all the sins of mankind. There have been many souls who, suffering extremely painful deaths, gave their pain to Jesus as an offering for the sacrifice He paid for them. Others have elected palliative options. Assisted suicide is never an option. It is always a sin. That you still feel some degree of discomfort about it is good because it says you still retain some measure of conscience. The unfortunate Truth is that a society that consumes more illegal mind bending, escapism and pain killing drugs than any other nation in the world in the world, partnered with a medical profession that promotes Dr. Death, to some degree, physician contracted killers will be in great demand within 20 years. It's already being done in the name, of all things, humanity and no one says anything about it.

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Mar 30, 2019 21:43:59   #
rumitoid (a regular here)
 
proud republican wrote:
Yes,if you are DNR and in agonizing pain!!!


That is very convincing.

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Mar 30, 2019 21:56:07   #
rumitoid (a regular here)
 
Rose42 wrote:
No I wouldn’t do it and I’ve been in a position to. Its not up to us to determine when someone dies. What if through that person even one soul could be saved? Directly or indirectly. This is eternity we’re talking about.

I remember a young woman whose name escapes me was dying of cancer and her father was saved before she passed away. She said it was worth the agony to have her father saved.


Rose, you must know the argument can go the other way. As beautiful as that story is about the daughter, seemingly senseless and prolonged agony to a loved one can destroy faith for many. An innocent child tortured and killed by a disease does not present an argument for a loving God.

But I agree with you about eternity. That is the ultimate test of our faith. And maybe the compassion to assist an incurable person in great pain is what Jesus expects of us. I don't know.

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Mar 30, 2019 22:02:56   #
rumitoid (a regular here)
 
sisboombaa wrote:
I went through hell watching both my parents suffer prior to death; my father for 5 years and my mother for one year. Death happens to all and to suffer for years before the inevitable is inhumane. Just my opinion based on my experiences. I will take my own life if the pain becomes too much and there is no other avenue for relief. However, I am old and useless so it is an easy decision for me. Every person should be free to decide for themselves. Hospice is a blessing.


Thank you for your honesty. It is a very difficult question to answer. Last month I had a heart attack and was diagnosed with A-fib. I have been dutifully taking all the drugs prescribed and other instructions but decided to end that. Is that a sin? I will let nature take its course. As you said, my decision and I agree that everyone should have that decision. Hospice is a wonder.

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Mar 30, 2019 22:12:16   #
Rose42 (a regular here)
 
rumitoid wrote:
Rose, you must know the argument can go the other way. As beautiful as that story is about the daughter, seemingly senseless and prolonged agony to a loved one can destroy faith for many. An innocent child tortured and killed by a disease does not present an argument for a loving God.

But I agree with you about eternity. That is the ultimate test of our faith. And maybe the compassion to assist an incurable person in great pain is what Jesus expects of us. I don't know.


If it destroys faith then saving faith was never there to begin with.

If somewhere in the bible the apostles helped someone die or mentioned it I would think differently. I see no justification for taking a life that way. I do see mentions of trials to test and strengthen faith.

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Mar 30, 2019 22:17:42   #
rumitoid (a regular here)
 
padremike wrote:
For the True Christian this is not a hard choice. Christ was offered a pain killer as he hung on the Cross and He declined. His death, however, was more painful than our own could ever be in that He took unto Himself all the sins of mankind. There have been many souls who, suffering extremely painful deaths, gave their pain to Jesus as an offering for the sacrifice He paid for them. Others have elected palliative options. Assisted suicide is never an option. It is always a sin. That you still feel some degree of discomfort about it is good because it says you still retain some measure of conscience. The unfortunate Truth is that a society that consumes more illegal mind bending, escapism and pain killing drugs than any other nation in the world in the world, partnered with a medical profession that promotes Dr. Death, to some degree, physician contracted killers will be in great demand within 20 years. It's already being done in the name, of all things, humanity and no one says anything about it.
For the True Christian this is not a hard choice. ... (show quote)


padre, a point of order. The only pain we can give to Jesus is suffering for his sake, not from disease. How clear is the Bible on assisted suicide?

There are three primary arguments in favor of euthanasia and PAS: autonomy, minimizing pain and suffering, and the idea that there is no morally relevant difference between taking steps to hasten death and allowing the dying process to occur.

Consider this scenario. A grenade is dropped in your position: do you hesitate to fall on it to protect your mates because Job says, “A person’s days are determined; you have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed” (Job 14:5). Every Christian argument against assisted suicide never answers that question or many others.

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Mar 30, 2019 22:35:46   #
padremike (a regular here)
 
rumitoid wrote:
Thank you for your honesty. It is a very difficult question to answer. Last month I had a heart attack and was diagnosed with A-fib. I have been dutifully taking all the drugs prescribed and other instructions but decided to end that. Is that a sin? I will let nature take its course. As you said, my decision and I agree that everyone should have that decision. Hospice is a wonder.


Take your meds! Science (physicians) and clergy (the Church) work hand in hand. One deals with natural law, one with the supernatural law. (prayer and anointing is supernatural) both laws are God's laws. Both work towards healing. Man foolishly tries to separate these laws from their Source. Life is precious and sacred and must be treated and respected as such. Take your meds. Do you really need to ask if declining to take life saving medication is a sin?

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Mar 30, 2019 22:54:05   #
rumitoid (a regular here)
 
padremike wrote:
Take your meds! Science (physicians) and clergy (the Church) work hand in hand. One deals with natural law, one with the supernatural law. (prayer and anointing is supernatural) both laws are God's laws. Both work towards healing. Man foolishly tries to separate these laws from their Source. Life is precious and sacred and must be treated and respected as such. Take your meds. Do you really need to ask if declining to take life saving medication is a sin?


We see differently but unlike you, I respect your opinion and see no need to insult you. Please find the chapter and verse that says denigrate another to make a point. Good points, but why descend to insult? It's your right, of course, and being civil and respectful in debate my seem like the heinous and demonrat PC, yet what do you gain by being nasty?

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Mar 30, 2019 23:09:58   #
padremike (a regular here)
 
rumitoid wrote:
padre, a point of order. The only pain we can give to Jesus is suffering for his sake, not from disease. How clear is the Bible on assisted suicide?

There are three primary arguments in favor of euthanasia and PAS: autonomy, minimizing pain and suffering, and the idea that there is no morally relevant difference between taking steps to hasten death and allowing the dying process to occur.

Consider this scenario. A grenade is dropped in your position: do you hesitate to fall on it to protect your mates because Job says, “A person’s days are determined; you have decreed the number of his months and have set limits he cannot exceed” (Job 14:5). Every Christian argument against assisted suicide never answers that question or many others.
padre, a point of order. The only pain we can give... (show quote)


No point of order is granted for you to determine what a person is allowed to offer to Christ. And the suffering from pain is caused by the disease and they are inseparable. The bible does not address physician assisted suicide. It does address murder and suicide is self-murder.

Today there are always "yes buts" forced fed into any question considering ethics and morality. For example, "PAS is a sin!" "YES BUT there are three primary arguments in favor......" anytime you hear "yes but" understand that person is literally saying to you, "OK, you've had your say now disregard what you've said and listen to me." You cannot "yes but" the Truth on suffering and death and cover over sin with raw emotion. So close to home and we should advocate cheating? I don't think so.

Your grenade scenario is easily answered by scripture that tells us that there is no greater love than for someone to give his life for others. I expect you're familiar with this scripture. Remember no one took Christ's life. He willingly gave it up for us. Oh that we might do the same for Him.

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Mar 30, 2019 23:12:53   #
bobebgtime
 
rumitoid wrote:
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mother and sister died in agony for an extended period of time from cancer. If either had asked for help to the other side, I would have helped, though never suggest it. (As I know now, a peaceful extra dose of morphine would have done it.) But we were very Catholic. It was thought to be murder. And there was also the belief that God would find it in his mercy for a cure. I guess more than it would be murder as a deterrent, turning one's back on hope and God's power was a more effective argument.

In 1989, I went for a Hospice Degree. What I learned over the next four years, both in class and in hospitals, made me advocate for assisted suicide, even in cases of Alzheimer. But I am still not totally comfortable with my belief. Mostly that it can become a slippery slope and, like the presence of abortion, might inculcate a decrease in the sacredness of life. Or not. Maybe increase it.

If you were in extreme agony and told there was no possible cure, your family forced to see you tortured day after day after day and unable to help, what would you do and why?
I am highly prejudice on this issue. Both my mothe... (show quote)


Hell, we treat the family dog with more dignity. Assisted Suicide wont confront me a bit.

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