slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

"I'm not a supporter of John McCain the politician, but the Forrestal incident clearly --after repeated viewings of archival film footage-- was started by a missile that was "touched off" across the deck from a bunch of flight-ready-and-armed planes, including McCain's.

Keep in mind: planes that are loaded with bombs do NOT land back on a carrier with those bombs; if they fail to deliver them to their designated target or secondary target, they are given a specific area into which they can drop their "unexpended ordnance." (In fact, that is what happened to Glenn Miller's plane in WW2: hit by unexpended bombs as his plane through the 'dump' zone in the English Channel.) So this incident happened when planes were being readied to take off on missions, rather than planes having returned, loaded, with ordnance... that doesn't happen.

The problem with missiles is that they are ignited by electrical impulse; the switch in the cockpit to launch a missile is what's called a "guarded" switch: you have to flip up a spring-loaded cover and THEN hit the switch: if the pilot was "startled" by a supposed 'wet start' by McCain, what was his finger doing on the trigger of a launchable Zuni? More likely it occured during the loading process by an ordnance-handler: if missiles are accidentally electrically-grounded or otherwise activated, and the carrier deck is loaded with armed planes, it's a recipe for disaster. You can rest assured that the Navy changed their procedures in the wake of that tragedy. But McCain didn't cause it. I don't like him or trust him as a politician, but I respect his Vietnam service and time in captivity. That won't get me to v**e for him, but I won't dishonor him by repeating an unt***h. Neither should you.

BTW: #1: I'm always wary when sites feel it necessary to dredge up "Z*****t-C*******t" tie-ins for almost everything that happens in life: it's simplistic, if not inaccurate and overly conspiracy-centric. #2: I was an Avionics Tech in the Army and am now an A&P mechanic, somewhat familiar with the caution needed when dealing with hard-wired components and activated circuits. circuit breakers 'On' when they should be 'Off,' etc.. Which made me ask: why was the pilot's finger on the pickle-switch? Not likely, hence my guesstimate that wires touched during loading and the missile was activated. But perhaps we'll never know."

Also:

"I served for 10 years in the Navy including 18 months as a ship's Damage Control Assistant. I've seen all the Navy training films on the Forrest Fire, as well as the actual footage from the fire. If you look at the video you will see a Zuni rocket fired from an aircraft on the starboard side of the flight deck. The rocket hits John McCain's A-4 parked on the PORT side of the flight deck. Also you will note that McCain's A-4 is parked with it's tail pointing outboard. Therefore a "Wet Start" by John McCain could not possibly have caused the rocket to launch. Also, McCain did not panic and drop two bombs. The ordinance on his aircraft was knocked off by the impact. McCain evacuated his aircraft and the area as he was supposed to.

You can dislike McCain all you want, but base your dislike on his policies and not on bogus rumors."

teabag09

May he roast in hell. Mike

teabag09

Your comments don't give you your excuse for your ignorance. You need to learn to shut the F up! You need to leave this country that has given you too much as you don't appreciate it. GTFO. Mike

teabag09

You are right with your statement but that doesn't make him any less despicable in his life. Mike

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

With the recent death of U.S. Senator and former POW John McCain, stories have resurfaced again in an attempt to besmirch the character of Senator McCain. We are here to once again squelch the rumors and ask that if you've repeated them, please correct it to those with whom you shared.

Please disseminate this info far and wide. It is tragic to see this courageous warrior and public servant maligned with lies once again, particularly while his family is grieving his loss.

We're going to step aside now and turn this page over to the former president of NAM-POWs, Mike McGrath, who explains this situation far better than we could.

From NAM-POWs President Mike McGrath

"I thought you needed to see a message that I sent to some folks who were establishing web pages with completely false stories which had been submitted to them as true stories. They agreed to stop after learning that they had received bogus information.

NAM-POW names of: Jerry Driscoll, Larry Carrigan, and A.J. Myers have been connected, falsely, with the below stories. If any of you see these false stories passed around the net from group to group, please send a copy of this message to the sender and try to get this nonsense and slander of McCain, Driscoll, Carrigan, and A.J stopped.

Thanks,
Mike McGrath
President of NAM-POWs

(1) There is a bogus story floating around about Larry Carrigan, Jane Fonda, torture of POWs, death of POWs, strips of paper, notes given to Jane, etc. I just thought you should know that this is all bull crap propagated by someone for some unknown purpose....probably to bolster some h**e against the t*****rous witch.

I'm not defending her, we all h**e her as much as the next person, but you need to get your stories straight.

Jerry Driscoll is my Secretary/Treasurer. I just talked to him. Same for A.J. Myers. They had nothing to do with the article attributed to them. They ask that we get their names off that bunch of crap. Tonight I talked with Larry Carrigan. He asked that we get his name off all that crap as well.

He never left a room to talk to anyone like that. No torture or beatings to see Fonda. He was living with Bud Day, John McCain and a bunch of hard nosed resistors during the Fonda visit...lots of witnesses if you want to question him (or them). Larry was never near Jane.

There were never any POWs k**led on account of Jane. (Did anyone ever provide a name of one of these tortured fellows?)

That story about the notes has a nice theatric touch, but no such thing ever happened. The only ones who met with Jane willingly, to my knowledge, were CDR Gene Wilber and LCOL Ed Miller. One NAM-POW was forced to go before the Fonda delegation. And I think that was only to sit at a table for a photo-op. I doubt he even got a chance to talk to her let alone slip her a note.

To my knowledge, the worst that happened to the rest of us was that we had to listen to the camp radio (Radio Hanoi and Hanoi Hannah) with the Fonda propaganda. It pissed us off, but I doubt you can call that "torture." So, if you get a chance to SHUT THIS STORY DOWN to the groups who are forwarding it, PLEASE DO SO. You can cut and paste this paragraph if you want to. Doubters can come to me if they need to.

Mike McGrath,
President of NAM-POWs
POW 30 June 67 to 4 March 73

(2) Next, the false stories of John McCain's conduct. Again, there are false stories floating around the net about McCain. He was never missing from our group for six months. He never co-operated with the enemy.

We have dozens of us who lived with and around John for his entire time (10-26-67 to 14 March 73). Larry Carrigan, for one, lived with or near both John and Ted Guy. Larry says Ted would never make the statements which are being attributed to him ...and Ted can't set the record straight because he is dead.
We have dozens of roommates who will vouch for the loyalty and courage and conduct of John McCain.
Here is a more accurate story: John had both arms and at least one leg badly hurt on ejection. He was bayoneted near the groin by a soldier as they were pulling him from the lake. After three days of interrogations and no cooperation, he was near death. They found out his father was Admiral McCain. They stopped the interrogations, gave him medical care, brought in a French reporter (with camera), and let him make a statement to his family that he was alive and would recover and come home.

After laying off the rough stuff, and trying to get John to cooperate by the "good guy" treatment for a couple of weeks, they got pissed off that he would not give information or cooperate. So, they threw him in a cell with Bud Day (MOH recipient) and Maj Norris Overly. McCain was in danger of dying from maltreatment. Maj Overly had to nurse both men back to health.

From that point on, McCain resisted just as hard as any other POW. He went through the same interrogations and treatment. His roommates can testify to his valor and patriotism.

In short, I think that the slanderous reports by faceless people (and some are attributed to Ted Guy...which I doubt are true) are from the bunch who are really pissed off that McCain made a political decision to back Clinton when Clinton decided it was time for "normalization" of diplomatic and trade relations, and it was time to have Ambassadorial level representation. To many, that made John a t*****r.
To most, it was just a political reality. It opened the door to better cooperation for a host of areas, including a full accounting of the POW/MIA issue (which is still an ongoing issue today. We have 2,060 yet to account for).

If you want to get the straight story on McCain's conduct, please contact his roommates. Start with the Honorable Orson Swindle at OrsonIII [at] aol.com. Thanks for helping shut down these Phony stories. Again, you can copy this paragraph if it will help.

Mike McGrath,
President of NAM-POWs

Bottom line: Who are these guys who pretend to know who the POWs are, what we are, how we think and thought, how we conducted ourselves, what we said, what we did, or why we did wh**ever?

There are over 50 books written by or about us which pretty much detail our ordeal. For book list, see our web site at: www.nampows.org.

If that isn't enough, please contact us personally and get the straight story. Over 280 of our e-mail addresses are on the NAM-POW web site. We also list the 300 or so Phony POWs on the Hall of Shame. But please don't attribute anything to us that is not verified.

Thanks,

Mike

For those with a genuine interest to find out about us, I suggest you get a very recently released book, 700 pages of hard hitting researched reality, "Honor Bound", by Frederick Kiley and Stuart Rochester (recently nominated for a Pulitzer for this work).

This by far is the most comprehensive work ever done on our ordeal. Do you want to find out the t***h about the Cuban Program, the torture, the brutality, etc. Just pick up your phone and call the Naval Institute at: 1-800-233-8764.

Read this book first, then we'll talk to you about real POW experiences in Hanoi... not false stories of Hanoi."

EmilyD

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Yes, I know of that and many other stories (both good & bad) about John McCain. Certainly, he had flaws as well as attributes. But, simply put, I was responding to Carol Kelly's statement in her following post:

Carol Kelly wrote: "Ask anyone who survived the Hanoi Hilton what kind of hero McCain was in VIETNAM"

The fact that the national organization NAMPOWs supported him by a vast majority speaks volumes. Other Viet Nam Vets respect him, even when not aligning with him on a number of matters.

It should come as no surprise to anyone that Mr. McCain was both respected and reviled.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Thank you, Mike. However, that statement' was not mine, but rather cut'n paste testimony from unnamed bloggers who served in the military. I have had no experience whatsoever on any U.S. Navy ship.

EmilyD

Because he donated hugely to their cause...until they realized what they did. They backed his lies by accepting his bribes.

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

Do you have a link verifying this, Emily? I would love to see/read it.

JFYI, I am a USMC 'Nam Veteran from 1967-'69.

EmilyD

From the Phoenix times.....Arizona....McCain's state....in 1989!!

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/mccain-the-most-reprehensible-of-the-keating-five-6431838

slatten49 Loc: Lake Whitney, Texas

I have no doubt as to McCain and the others guilt in the crimes of the Keating scandal. But, that link does not speak to the topic of this thread or Mr. McCain's time in Viet Nam or the Hanoi Hilton. It doesn't even speak to your suggesting NAMPOW's accepting bribes from John McCain in your previous post. That was for which I was asking proof of a link. So far, you've failed.

Perhaps if you had taken the time to read, absorb and comprehend my posts, you would have understood that I was/am no fan of John McCain, the politician.

promilitary

All due respect to what the man endured, being captured, shot down, and held in captivity for five years does not make McCain a hero. During those five years there were good men carrying on the fight,
putting their lives on the line every day, and some of them forfeited their lives for this country....while
John McCain survived and went on to lead a good life. Those are the heroes.

Turned RINO he was a royal pain in the ass as a senator. His republican colleagues couldn't
count on him.....the country couldn't count on him.

Rose42

The man is gone. I see no useful purpose in stomping on his grave.