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Fox News airs Patrick Moore--coal, oil, and nuclear energy lobbyist and representative--as expert environmentalist
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Mar 14, 2019 00:54:13   #
Pennylynn (a regular here)
 
Rose42 wrote:
Though he wasn’t a cofounder Moore played a big part in the early days of Greenpeace. I used to be a member in the early days before they became extreme.

Media matters is pretty far left and uses loaded words.

He’s as much an expert as many others. Liberals and conservatives pick different people that are suited to their agendas


I too was a member of Greenpeace until they went stupid. When I was a member, Moore was listed among its “founders and first members” on their website and handouts before quietly changing their advertisement around 2007. I think that was about the same time that he began to talk about 'sensible' energy that includes moving away from fossil fuel. Although I find his defense of atomic energy problematic, I distinctly recall the stop the whaling campaign and preserving many species (animal and vegetation) that was on the extinction lists. Now Greenpeace float around in million dollar yachts on champaign vacations. And they wrongly state that the world is getting warmer whereas core samples say just the opposite.... if anything, and if history repeats, we are heading into the start (every 170 years) when the world gets cooler and drier. Each of these 'stages' last for about 200 to 300 years. Amazing thing, all great civilizations formed while the earth warms and more unrest happens as the earth cools. It is all in the cycle of the sun (which itself is cooling) and the speed that magnetic north shifts... used to be 9 miles a year and the last move was 34 miles. It is moving quickly toward Siberia.... this affects all kinds of atmospheric changes.... from rain patterns to hurricanes and earthquake activity.



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Mar 14, 2019 16:02:21   #
Rose42 (a regular here)
 
rumitoid wrote:
What I find suspicious, and somewhat condemning, is that he has worked and been a lobbyist for nearly every industry that has a big stake in debunking man-made Climate Change for over a decade. That does not prove bias, of course, yet it makes his statements highly questionable.


I don't find it suspicious because both sides pick their experts and they only pick those who are favorable to their agenda. We can take none of them at their word and have to sift through what they say. Not only that but look hard at the integrity of those who appointed them.

Man-made climate change is still debatable even though democrats don't want it to be. There is no slam dunk consensus. What isn't debatable is we have to clean up our act with regards to the planet.

IMO

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Mar 14, 2019 19:21:20   #
rumitoid (a regular here)
 
Rose42 wrote:
I don't find it suspicious because both sides pick their experts and they only pick those who are favorable to their agenda. We can take none of them at their word and have to sift through what they say. Not only that but look hard at the integrity of those who appointed them.

Man-made climate change is still debatable even though democrats don't want it to be. There is no slam dunk consensus. What isn't debatable is we have to clean up our act with regards to the planet.

IMO


I agree, Rose. I can't sort it out. Both sides may have an agenda for politics and gain, but our future and that of our nation and family might be at stake. We must not make this a political football, follow party lines. We need to educate ourselves as best we can and remain open-minded on the topic.

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Mar 15, 2019 09:55:59   #
Rose42 (a regular here)
 
rumitoid wrote:
I agree, Rose. I can't sort it out. Both sides may have an agenda for politics and gain, but our future and that of our nation and family might be at stake. We must not make this a political football, follow party lines. We need to educate ourselves as best we can and remain open-minded on the topic.


I totally agree.

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Mar 15, 2019 10:23:14   #
Morgan (a regular here)
 
rumitoid wrote:
Patrick Moore, unlike the lie told by him and repeated by Fox News and Trump, is not a co-founder of Greenpeace. He has not been associated with that organization for ten years. Greenpeace wrote in a statement that while Mr Moore “played a significant role in Greenpeace Canada for several years back in early 2000, he was not responsible for founding the organization."

“Patrick Moore often misrepresents himself in the media as an environmental ‘expert’ or even an ‘environmentalist,’ while offering anti-environmental opinions on a wide range of issues and taking a distinctly anti-environmental stance,” the group said in a statement published on its website. “He also exploits long-gone ties with Greenpeace to sell himself as a speaker and pro-corporate spokesperson, usually taking positions that Greenpeace opposes.”

What is truly worrisome is that Trump has no filter when it comes to what Fox News purports; he just echoes their talking points with out question. Is that what we want a president to do, blindly repeat a talk show as a source for facts? “It is potentially catastrophic that the president of the United States gets his news on climate change from [Fox & Friends] appearances by an industry spox who falsely portrays himself as a Greenpeace co-founder,” Matthew Gertz, a senior fellow at Media Matters.
Patrick Moore, unlike the lie told by him and repe... (show quote)


True enough, he once was involved with the group, his views have diverged substantially since he left in 1986. Although Mr. Moore played a significant role in Greenpeace Canada for several years, he did not found Greenpeace. Phil Cotes, Irving Stowe, and Jim Bohlen founded Greenpeace in 1970.

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Mar 15, 2019 14:42:34   #
Morgan (a regular here)
 
Pennylynn wrote:
I too was a member of Greenpeace until they went stupid. When I was a member, Moore was listed among its “founders and first members” on their website and handouts before quietly changing their advertisement around 2007. I think that was about the same time that he began to talk about 'sensible' energy that includes moving away from fossil fuel. Although I find his defense of atomic energy problematic, I distinctly recall the stop the whaling campaign and preserving many species (animal and vegetation) that was on the extinction lists. Now Greenpeace float around in million dollar yachts on champaign vacations. And they wrongly state that the world is getting warmer whereas core samples say just the opposite.... if anything, and if history repeats, we are heading into the start (every 170 years) when the world gets cooler and drier. Each of these 'stages' last for about 200 to 300 years. Amazing thing, all great civilizations formed while the earth warms and more unrest happens as the earth cools. It is all in the cycle of the sun (which itself is cooling) and the speed that magnetic north shifts... used to be 9 miles a year and the last move was 34 miles. It is moving quickly toward Siberia.... this affects all kinds of atmospheric changes.... from rain patterns to hurricanes and earthquake activity.
I too was a member of Greenpeace until they went s... (show quote)


Stating the earth is warming is not wrong. You have a contradiction here, first you say Green peace "wrongly" states we are getting warming, but then the ice core say the opposite, if they are stating the opposite, then the earth warming is correct. While there are small dips year to year the incline has been consistent year to year, especially in the last five years.

There are many variables to the "weather" which then tracks our yearly climate changes. There are also many variables to the location on earth. What core samples have shown the reverse?

Few areas at the poles have seen more ice, but in general, we've lost miles of glaciers, more importantly, the perennial deep ice, not the yearly annual ice.

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Mar 15, 2019 15:47:59   #
Pennylynn (a regular here)
 
Morgan wrote:
Stating the earth is warming is not wrong. You have a contradiction here, first you say Green peace "wrongly" states we are getting warming, but then the ice core say the opposite, if they are stating the opposite, then the earth warming is correct. While there are small dips year to year the incline has been consistent year to year, especially in the last five years.

There are many variables to the "weather" which then tracks our yearly climate changes. There are also many variables to the location on earth. What core samples have shown the reverse?

Few areas at the poles have seen more ice, but in general, we've lost miles of glaciers, more importantly, the perennial deep ice, not the yearly annual ice.
Stating the earth is warming is not wrong. You hav... (show quote)


Well, it is not a contradiction. Let me try to put this in real simple terms... We are not getting "warming" but rather the earth is cooling down as it has done for thousands of years right before mini ice ages. Ice core samples are taken from hundreds of yards into ice caps and due to deposits in those samples a determination of heating/cooling/seismographic changes and disturbances/melting and refreezing can be determined. And right now those samples point to the earth cooling rather than warming up. Of course one could rely on the work published by Murphy 2009 in which he says that the earth is warming based on surface temperatures of the oceans and seas.

Since 1998 there has been no appreciative variations in heat transfer. In fact, 1998 was the hottest year on record and temperatures have slowly declined. One explanation of the excessive heat transfer that year has to do with the very strong el El Nino. Consequently, we experienced above-average surface temperatures. Conversely, the last few years have seen moderate La Nina conditions which had a cooling effect on global temperatures. El Nino and La Nino are natural phenomenon experienced in the equatorial Pacific which causes temporary alterations in the world climate.

As for ice melting, NASA has this to say "According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008.

“We’re essentially in agreement with other studies that show an increase in ice discharge in the Antarctic Peninsula and the Thwaites and Pine Island region of West Antarctica,” said Jay Zwally, a glaciologist with NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and lead author of the study, which was published on Oct. 30 in the Journal of Glaciology.

The trend of melting ice cap in the Arctic has been going on for over 20,000 years. It is a cycle the earth has gone through for millions of years. I do not think primitive man started the most recent events.... and I do not think it had anything to do with cow flatulence.

Having said this, I do not deny that the surface of the earth is going through some substantial changes and we need to do a better job of protecting our planet. I firmly believe that the world is over populated and we are due for a reduction whether caused by human or a natural phenomenon. I also believe that we are using an excess of carbon based fuel and that is harming our atmosphere. Alternative fuels must be found and incorporated into our life styles. I would be saying this regardless of the warming or cooling of the planet, it is only commonsense.



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Mar 15, 2019 21:48:14   #
Morgan (a regular here)
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Well, it is not a contradiction. Let me try to put this in real simple terms... We are not getting "warming" but rather the earth is cooling down as it has done for thousands of years right before mini ice ages. Ice core samples are taken from hundreds of yards into ice caps and due to deposits in those samples a determination of heating/cooling/seismographic changes and disturbances/melting and refreezing can be determined. And right now those samples point to the earth cooling rather than warming up. Of course one could rely on the work published by Murphy 2009 in which he says that the earth is warming based on surface temperatures of the oceans and seas.

Since 1998 there has been no appreciative variations in heat transfer. In fact, 1998 was the hottest year on record and temperatures have slowly declined. One explanation of the excessive heat transfer that year has to do with the very strong el El Nino. Consequently, we experienced above-average surface temperatures. Conversely, the last few years have seen moderate La Nina conditions which had a cooling effect on global temperatures. El Nino and La Nino are natural phenomenon experienced in the equatorial Pacific which causes temporary alterations in the world climate.

As for ice melting, NASA has this to say "According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008.

“We’re essentially in agreement with other studies that show an increase in ice discharge in the Antarctic Peninsula and the Thwaites and Pine Island region of West Antarctica,” said Jay Zwally, a glaciologist with NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and lead author of the study, which was published on Oct. 30 in the Journal of Glaciology.

The trend of melting ice cap in the Arctic has been going on for over 20,000 years. It is a cycle the earth has gone through for millions of years. I do not think primitive man started the most recent events.... and I do not think it had anything to do with cow flatulence.

Having said this, I do not deny that the surface of the earth is going through some substantial changes and we need to do a better job of protecting our planet. I firmly believe that the world is over populated and we are due for a reduction whether caused by human or a natural phenomenon. I also believe that we are using an excess of carbon based fuel and that is harming our atmosphere. Alternative fuels must be found and incorporated into our life styles. I would be saying this regardless of the warming or cooling of the planet, it is only commonsense.
Well, it is not a contradiction. Let me try to pu... (show quote)


Have a nice night...sigh

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Mar 15, 2019 21:52:04   #
Pennylynn (a regular here)
 
Morgan wrote:
Have a nice night...sigh


You as well.

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Mar 17, 2019 12:29:01   #
Morgan (a regular here)
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Well, it is not a contradiction. Let me try to put this in real simple terms... We are not getting "warming" but rather the earth is cooling down as it has done for thousands of years right before mini ice ages. Ice core samples are taken from hundreds of yards into ice caps and due to deposits in those samples a determination of heating/cooling/seismographic changes and disturbances/melting and refreezing can be determined. And right now those samples point to the earth cooling rather than warming up. Of course one could rely on the work published by Murphy 2009 in which he says that the earth is warming based on surface temperatures of the oceans and seas.

Since 1998 there has been no appreciative variations in heat transfer. In fact, 1998 was the hottest year on record and temperatures have slowly declined. One explanation of the excessive heat transfer that year has to do with the very strong el El Nino. Consequently, we experienced above-average surface temperatures. Conversely, the last few years have seen moderate La Nina conditions which had a cooling effect on global temperatures. El Nino and La Nino are natural phenomenon experienced in the equatorial Pacific which causes temporary alterations in the world climate.

As for ice melting, NASA has this to say "According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008.

“We’re essentially in agreement with other studies that show an increase in ice discharge in the Antarctic Peninsula and the Thwaites and Pine Island region of West Antarctica,” said Jay Zwally, a glaciologist with NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and lead author of the study, which was published on Oct. 30 in the Journal of Glaciology.

The trend of melting ice cap in the Arctic has been going on for over 20,000 years. It is a cycle the earth has gone through for millions of years. I do not think primitive man started the most recent events.... and I do not think it had anything to do with cow flatulence.

Having said this, I do not deny that the surface of the earth is going through some substantial changes and we need to do a better job of protecting our planet. I firmly believe that the world is over populated and we are due for a reduction whether caused by human or a natural phenomenon. I also believe that we are using an excess of carbon based fuel and that is harming our atmosphere. Alternative fuels must be found and incorporated into our life styles. I would be saying this regardless of the warming or cooling of the planet, it is only commonsense.
Well, it is not a contradiction. Let me try to pu... (show quote)



Let me first restate that no one is denying that the sun and moon do not impact our climate, it certainly does, as a matter of fact, these are the main causes in our yearly lows and highs on our climate graphs. We are also not suggesting we are "the cause" to global warming, but we have been accelerating it. There is also some on the right accusing us of stating we don't need C02, of course we do.

We can think of it this way, when a person takes in too much sugar, the system malfunctions, their metabolism doesn't work correctly and they become diabetic, which will slowly begin to deteriorate the body, leading to an earlier death. But the body needs sugar to survive, we can't eliminate completely, but the diet is changed to allow the body to manage it. Wow, I just thought of that...LOL

What is most important, is that these changes can't be pushed back year after year so they never happen, and that is what has happened for the past forty years or more.

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