karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

Long Read:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/proposal-at-vatican-to-change-eucharist-would-create-a-new-religion
http://archive.is/Wfcpu#selection-161.0-169.98

ROME, March 5, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — Experts including Cardinal Raymond Burke and Bishop Athanasius Schneider are sounding the alarm over a shocking proposal at the Vatican to consider changing the matter of the Eucharist.
Such a move, critics warn, would invalidate the Sacrament and create, in effect, a “new religion.”

Radiance3

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Ladies and Gentlemen, there has been no changes made to the Catholic's Holy Eucharist proposed by the German Bishops. Here are the events going on. I can't stand this gossip, I need to answer this.

THERE HAVE BEEN SUCH INTERNATIONAL GOSSIPS, EXPECIALLY FROM THE NON-CATHOLICS WHO DON’T UNDERSTAND THE SACRAMENT OF THE HOLY EUCHARIST. THE GOSSIPS SPREAD LIKE WILD FIRE ALL THEIR ASSUMPSIONS HAVE BEEN WRONG. THIS REQUEST FOR HOLY COMMUNION FOR LUTHERAN SPOUSE OF a CATHOLIC HAS BEEN REJECTED. THERE IS A SERIOUS STUDY CONSIDERED TO THE EFFECTS. THEREFORE, THE VATICAN’STANCE ON THIS IS BEING STUDIED, BUT SERIOUSLY REJECTED.

ALLOWING THE NON-CAHOLIC NOT BAPTIZED TO A HOLY COMMUNION IS A VIOLATION OF THE COVENANT. THUS THE VATICAN HAS REJECTED THE GERMAN PROPOSAL BUT CAREFULLY STUDIED AT PRESENT.

Vatican Rejects German Bishops’ Intercommunion Proposal
Sources confirm that, with the Holy Father’s approval, the Vatican’s head of doctrine has thrown out the bishops’ proposal allowing Holy Communion for some Protestant spouses, but the Pope wishes the rejection letter to remain secret.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with the approval of Pope Francis, has written a letter to German bishops rejecting their proposal to allow some Protestant spouses to receive Holy Communion, but the Pope does not wish the letter to be made public, the Register has learned.
Sources in the Vatican and Germany say that Archbishop Luis Ladaria, the current prefect of the CDF, wrote the letter and that it was given papal approval.

“It’s a rejection of the pastoral plan,” said a high level source in the German Church, speaking on condition of anonymity, adding that there are “no differences” between Archbishop Ladaria and his predecessor, Cardinal Gerhard Müller, on the matter.
But two senior sources have also confirmed that the Pope wants the letter to remain secret for reasons unknown.

The Austrian Catholic website Kath.net revealed Wednesday that the Vatican had issued its response, which came after seven German bishops, led by Cardinal Rainer Woelki of Cologne, wrote to the CDF last month to say they believed the proposal contradicted Catholic doctrine, undermined Church unity and exceeded the competence of the bishops’ conference.

At their spring conference in February, Germany’s bishops voted overwhelmingly in favor of producing a guide, or pastoral handout, to allow a Protestant partner of a Catholic to receive the Eucharist in some cases and under certain conditions.

They decided that permission could be granted if, after having made a “serious examination” of conscience with a priest or another person with pastoral responsibilities, the partner “affirms the faith of the Catholic Church,” wishes to end “serious spiritual distress,” and has a “longing to satisfy a hunger for the Eucharist.”

At the time, Cardinal Reinhard Marx, president of the German bishops’ conference, said the guide would be a “pastoral handout” and that the intention was not to “change any doctrine.” He said the proposal also ruled out any path for Protestant spouses to conversion, otherwise known as an “ecumenism of return.” It also left much discretion to the local bishop.

The Register learned that only 13 of Germany’s 67 bishops voted against the proposal, or abstained. But the proposal caused considerable unease elsewhere: Cardinals Francis Arinze, Gerhard Müller, Walter Brandmüller, and Paul Cordes all decried the move.

Cardinal Müller called the proposal a “rhetorical trick” pulled on believers, most of whom he noted are not theologians. He stressed that interdenominational marriage is “not an emergency situation,” and that “neither the Pope nor we bishops can redefine the sacraments as a means of alleviating mental distress and satisfying spiritual needs” as they are “effective signs of the grace of God.”
Cardinal Brandmüller said the German bishops' weak opposition to the proposal was a “scandal, no question.”

Damaged Power Base
Today’s news of the Vatican’s decision will come as an embarrassment to Cardinal Marx who is facing a revolt by bishops in Bavaria. The German daily Bild noted this week that "five out of six Bavarian bishops have publicly challenged Marx on a central question (Holy Communion),” and that it was therefore clear: “His power base is damaged.” Quoting one of the rebel bishops, the newspaper added: “It’ll soon be basta [enough] for Reinhard.”

The German bishops' conference has tried to deny the reports. Spokesman Matthias Kopp said the conference was “unaware” of any such rejection, but in any case, he said Cardinal Marx had not sent the handout to the Vatican, and it was only a “draft subject to revision.” He added that the information provided by kath.net was therefore “inconclusive and we cannot confirm it."
Bernhard Kellner, Cardinal Marx’s spokesman, said “no comment,” when asked about the letter by the Munich-based daily Münchener-Merkur.

But a source close to the German Church poured scorn on Kopp’s response, saying it was the equivalent of “throwing sand in one’s eyes” and a case of “smoke and mirrors.”
He is using a “classic tactic” of the Left, he said. “Try to get something through the backdoor by submitting a draft, then see if you can get away with it, and if you can’t, say it was ‘only a draft.’”
The source also stressed the intercommunion idea has been floating around the halls of the German bishops’ conference for years, and didn’t just suddenly appear. “It’s no coincidence that it came out now,” he said.

Another source with detailed knowledge of the German Church said that more German bishops opposed the move than the voting numbers suggest, but he added that the bishops find it difficult to mount any significant resistance due to powerful figures behind the episcopate. In particular, he cited Jesuit Father Hans Langendörfer, general secretary of the German bishops' conference, and Kopp.
Both, he said, control almost all of the German Catholic media, including the German section of Vatican Media and News, backed up by significant funding.

But the predominant issue remains: why does the Pope wish the rejection letter to remain secret?
One probable reason, according to some observers, is because the rejection does not fit the narrative and direction of this pontificate.

The Pope, they recall, showed his sympathy for the German bishops' proposal in 2015 when he appeared to allow a Lutheran spouse to receive Holy Communion in accordance with her conscience.
Update, April 19:

The German bishops conference has issued a statement to say reports that the pastoral “handout” has been rejected “in the Vatican” by the Pope and Vatican dicasteries are “false.”
The issue, however, is not the handout which doesn't yet exist (it hasn't been published yet or sent to the Vatican), but the draft proposal which was voted upon in February, is subject to amendments, and to which the seven bishops and the CDF letter refer.

Pope Francis has summoned to Rome Cardinals Marx, Woelki, and Bishop Felix Genn of Münster to discuss the matter.

https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/06/04/vatican-rejects-german-proposal-for-communion-for-protestants2/
Vatican rejects German proposal for Communion for Protestants
Staff Reporter
4 June, 2018
At odds on Communion: Cardinal Reinhard Marx and Cardinal Rainer Maria Woelki (CNS)
The Vatican has rejected the German Bishops’ Conference’s (GBK) proposal to allow Protestant spouses to partake of Communion in the Catholic Church.

This decision was announced in an official letter by Archbishop Luis Ladaria, Prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, after a conversation between the German bishops and the Vatican.
Ladaria made it clear that this was discussed with the Pope and that the Pope agreed with the decision, stating that the document is not ready for publication due to the number of issues that it raises.
Canon 844 §4 allows Protestants to receive Communion in “grave circumstances.” The German Church had proposed that this applies to those in “serious spiritual distress” with a “longing to satisfy a hunger for the Eucharist” if they affirm “the faith of the Catholic Church.”

In recent months, there has been much debate over the meaning of these phrases, and although many people accuse the German bishops of attempting to change church doctrine, the authors of the document stated it was solely a guide for local clergy. Those against the proposal said it was too vague, giving individual church leaders the ability to decide who can receive communion.

“The theme concerns the law of the church, especially the interpretation of can. 844 CIC,” Ladaria wrote. “Because there are unanswered questions in some parts of the Church, the competent dicastery of the Holy See has already been commissioned to clarify these issues promptly at the world church level. In particular, it seems appropriate to leave the verdict on the existence of an ‘urgent and serious plight’ to the diocesan bishop.”

Such a proposal has an impact on relations between churches of varying denominations.
In the letter rejecting the proposal, it was acknowledged that the question of Protestant Communion is of great importance on a world scale, and that this decision would reach much farther than the churches of Germany.

Cardinal Rainer Woelki and six other bishops brought the proposal to the Vatican’s attention in April, asking it to rule on whether it contradicts Church teaching.

https://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/04/04/german-bishops-ask-vatican-to-intervene-on-communion-for-protestants-proposal/

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/vatican-reportedly-rejects-german-bishops-plan-for-intercommunion-of-spouses-65682

Radiance3

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PS. Pardon me. I did capitalized words again. Won't happen next time.
Thanks.

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

Actually
It Was About Using Yuca Bread
Instead Of Wheat

And It's Not From Germans, Actually
It's From S. America

Read The Links

Radiance3

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The Gossips are even weird that spread further.

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

Do I Have To Read For You ??

Jesuit theologian Father Francisco Taborda last week raised the possibility that the upcoming Amazonian Synod scheduled for next October might consider changing the matter of the Eucharist, allowing the use of a South American vegetable called yuca rather than wheaten bread.

Fr. Taborda told Crux on Feb. 28 that climate issues and inculturation warrant the change. Intense humidity during the Amazonian rainy season turns wheaten hosts into a pasty mush, he said, adding that “in the Amazon, bread is made out of yuca,” a shrub native to South America from which tapioca is derived.[/i]

Here's What A S. American Jesuit Looks Like:

Radiance3

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WE are not talking about the Jesuits. Please don't divert the topic. We are talking about the German Bishops' proposal to allow the non-Catholic spouse receive the Holy Communion. The answer to that is no. It violates the Sacrament of Baptism, and the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. That is the topic.

Please don't be philosophical. I respect and love the children of God, because Christ asked us to love one another, as He loves us. If anyone wants to intimidate me like Satan, please I have no time for that. Thank you.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

karpenter, I really appreciate this information on the source of tapioca flour you've provided on your thread, as it is one of the best tasting alternate flours for baking gluten-free breads and pie crusts for those of us with celiac disease who can not consume wheat, rye or barley.

Thanks again.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

Thank you Karpenter, for this information on the source of tapioca flour, which is used as a substitute for wheat flour for those of us who have Celiac Disease, and must eat gluten free products.

Your topic has nothing to do with the German Catholic scandal introduced by Radiance as she confused your story below with one she had read from another country.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/proposal-at-vatican-to-change-eucharist-would-create-a-new-religion

"Bishop Schneider also pointed out that “the Council of Trent, Pope Pius XII and John Paul II taught that the Church has no power to change the substance of the sacraments.”

“The Church can only change what she has established,” he said. “Yet the Church did not establish the matter of the Eucharist. It was established by Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, who likewise established that water be the matter of Baptism.”

LifeSite also asked the highly regarded English theologian and author, Father John Saward, to explain why it is impossible to introduce a change in the matter of the Eucharist. Fr. Saward responded:

The witness of Tradition is as clear as can be: the only valid matter of the Eucharist is wheaten bread (panis triticeus). It is the teaching of the Council of Florence and is argued for by St. Thomas in his treatise on the Eucharist in the Summa: “We believe that Christ used this kind of bread when He instituted the Eucharist” (3a q. 74, a. 3). “Without wheaten bread,” St. Thomas goes on to say, “the Sacrament is not validly confected” (sine quo non perficitur sacramentum) (3a q. 74, a. 4).
“The 1983 Code is likewise unambiguous: ‘The bread must be made of wheat alone’ (can. 924/2),” he added."

Again, Karpenter's original subject had nothing to do with the new topic Radiance has introduced on this thread about German Catholic's unchristian snubbing of a parishioner's Lutheran wife.

Radiance3

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Another gossip. I am not interested in any of your rhetoric. I'm talking about facts of the news. Don't divert the message to the swamp! NOT interested in talking to you. You can believe what you believe no one is stopping you. I am not here to fight/insult anybody. Jesus said, love one another as I love you. I am just writing the facts how our Catholic Church follow and obey Jesus Last Supper and His Covenant with His people.

The message is about the German Bishops asking Vatican for allowing a Lutheran spouse of a Catholic to have the Holy Communion. The ANSWER IS PLAIN NO!.. They are not eligible. It violates the Sacrament of Baptism, and the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist. These are Catholic Sacraments.

The Covenant with God.
John 6:52-58

John 6:53-58 English Standard Version (ESV)

53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread[a] the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Corinthian 11:24
NIV
and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

Corinthian 11:25
the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me."

1 Corinthians 11:24-26 King James Version (KJV)
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come

Radiance3

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Good morning everyone. This is the beginning of Lent. A time to focus our priorities to Christ,
and walk with Him... through His journey. It makes me cry, especially when I hear the music that penetrates deeply into my heart and my soul. Please listen, perhaps you'll cry too. May God bless all of you!

Reparation to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament
I ADORE Thee profoundly, O my Jesus,
in Thy sacramental form;
I acknowledge Thee to be true God and true Man,
and by this act of adoration

O Sacrament most holy!
O Sacrament divine!
All praise and all thanksgiving
be every moment Thine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IActLJH8xHs

karpenter Loc: Headin' Fer Da Hills !!

Jesuits Of The South American Synod
Are Seeking Exception On Changing The Communion
The Pope Is A Former Member

You Might Keep An Eye On This Issue
He Has Already Allowed A Mullah
Into The Vatican Church To Recite Their Shada-la-la
Which Is A Curse On Non-Believers Of Islam
i.e., Christians
And The Pope Knows That As Sure As The Sun Comes Up

Unless You Believe The God Of Abraham
'Abrogated' All His Hand-Picked Hebrew Prophets

Radiance3

===============
The final authority of the Sacrament of the Eucharist is the Vatican. That infallible Magisterium.
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 18:18
https://biblehub.com/matthew/18-18.htm
Truly I say to you, whatever you shall bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on the earth shall have been loosed in heaven.

Gossips spread all over, especially those who don't believe in the true Catholic Church created by Christ. There are so many versions of faith all over the world. But the Catholic Church has only One Catholic and Apostolic Church created by Christ more than 1, 987 years ago.

You can recite and assume what ever gossips you hear around, that is your responsibility.
You have that freedom here. I don't listen to gossips.

But I believe in my faith that Jesus had thought me to love others, as He loves me. I don't criticize others because no one could judge me or others, , except my God Christ forever and ever.

So, you can rant as much as you want. if that makes you happy. I am happy and grateful that I am a Catholic and worship my true God, Christ, who blesses and keeps me in His fold everyday.

May peace be with you.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

There is a very simple solution to that, Radiance,

Don't read my "rhetoric" if you're not interested in it.

I can't believe it is necessary for me to point this out, but I have the same right to write comments on this thread as do you.

It's not your thread. You can't hijack someone elses thread, and order others not to write on it. You didn't initiate it, as I did not.

We have both done Karpenter a disservice by deviating from the original subject, which was the Catholic bishops in South America changing the flour in the eucharist cracker recipe, which they bake to consume in their mass services.

Radiance3

=====================
You can write all your rants, but I am not interested in gossips. I am here not to fight with obnoxious people but to explain important issues that relate to the God and faith that I believe in. I am not here to judge or condemn any religious beliefs, but to present factual information about my faith. I don't attack other faith, that is not my job.

As I've started in my first paragraph of my topic, I did a pleasing opening, respecting the rights of any human being whoever they are that come across this page.

The purpose of my comments was no other than love and respect. But if someone wants to fight with me, and insult my religion, I won't allow that. God is my judge. Not you or any protestant. So, let us just respect and write comments that don't attack and destroy.

My religion don't hate, don't judge, or attack others, but love all people, based on our actions, by words and by deeds. WE follow what God ask us to do. To love and serve the Lord.
Peace be with you.