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Dr. Michael Heiser video
Feb 6, 2019 12:16:25   #
Rose42
 
I only watched the first one so far. While I found it interesting I got the impression he was off on a rabbit trail albeit an interesting one. God having more children or some kind of administration? I don't know about that one. But I have to let things gel in my head first.

He's obviously done much research but one of my questions is has anyone uncovered any of this before?

Reply
Feb 6, 2019 20:56:17   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
In the thousands of years since Scripture was revealed to man, and man recorded it, nothing has been left uninvestigated. Every aspect of every word written in Scripture has been researched by the brightest, best educated individuals who have ever lived; some to confirm it, others attempting to deny it.

To suddenly learn we have all missed the message, but one enlightened individual will now reveal it to us, on it's face, is classic cultism.

Miracles have and do happen, but not contrary to Scripture, and we've got to know the difference...

Alfred Edersheim, 19th century Messianic Jewish believer has written some things that apply rather aptly to this. I hesitate to add anything more, as it would surely be labeled hate speech, which is an absolutely ridiculous way to feel.


Rose42 wrote:
I only watched the first one so far. While I found it interesting I got the impression he was off on a rabbit trail albeit an interesting one. God having more children or some kind of administration? I don't know about that one. But I have to let things gel in my head first.

He has obviously done much research but one of my questions is has anyone uncovered any of this before?

Reply
Feb 7, 2019 09:52:34   #
Rose42
 
Zemirah wrote:
In the thousands of years since Scripture was revealed to man, and man recorded it, nothing has been left uninvestigated. Every aspect of every word written in Scripture has been researched by the brightest, best educated individuals who have ever lived; some to confirm it, others attempting to deny it.

To suddenly learn we have all missed the message, but one enlightened individual will now reveal it to us, on it's face, is classic cultism.

Miracles have and do happen, but not contrary to Scripture, and we've got to know the difference...

Alfred Edersheim, 19th century Messianic Jewish believer has written some things that apply rather aptly to this. I hesitate to add anything more, as it would surely be labeled hate speech, which is an absolutely ridiculous way to feel.
In the thousands of years since Scripture was reve... (show quote)


I am not familiar with Alfred Edersheim.

I would be interested in questioning Mr. Heiser to see why he took this particular tack and why he thinks it benefits us. I'm not judging him - I don't know his intent or his heart. I've not seen his other presentations.

Reply
 
 
Feb 7, 2019 10:47:00   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
I am not familiar with Alfred Edersheim.

I would be interested in questioning Mr. Heiser to see why he took this particular tack and why he thinks it benefits us. I'm not judging him - I don't know his intent or his heart. I've not seen his other presentations.


I don't know either Hebrew or Greek so I and I would imagine over 90% of the Christian world do either. So I cannot attest as to what he is saying whether it is truth or not but someone is sponsoring him in these videos and whether they do or not know Hebrew and Greek is also in question. I will have to look for the persons name and see if that helps clarify some of this persons background as well.

Reply
Feb 7, 2019 11:25:33   #
Rose42
 
bahmer wrote:
I don't know either Hebrew or Greek so I and I would imagine over 90% of the Christian world do either. So I cannot attest as to what he is saying whether it is truth or not but someone is sponsoring him in these videos and whether they do or not know Hebrew and Greek is also in question. I will have to look for the persons name and see if that helps clarify some of this persons background as well.


Is this a lecture that's taped? That's what it seemed like. My internet is very spotty so I could only listen to it - I just downloaded the audio

Reply
Feb 7, 2019 12:23:25   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Rose42 wrote:
Is this a lecture that's taped? That's what it seemed like. My internet is very spotty so I could only listen to it - I just downloaded the audio


Yes, it's taped. I posted it. Because it made me want to dig deeper into scripture to see if it makes sense and aligns with other scripture and if it's true, and if the dots connect. It's the same reason you may want to investigate the Bible Codes. I can't prove it one way or the other.

But if you believe we are entering the last days it might be worth checking out.

Jerusalem is once again under control of the Jews, not the UN. The red heifer without blemish is alive and well, no white hairs yet. The 3rd Temple can't be far behind. Lots of stuff is happening in Israel. The temple treasures may be about to be revealed thanks to the Copper Scroll. I just love the cutting edge stuff.

Not trying to lead anyone astray. Even the Sanhedrin has been reconstituted. The most venerated Rabbi in modern times, Rabbi Kaduri, said Yesuah is the Messiah. A lot of things point to Messiah coming soon. Some think as I do for the second time and some for the first time. We are to be ready.

That's all I'm about. You can take it or leave it. That's up to each of you. I'm just putting it out there to whet your appetite for reading the scriptures.

Reply
Feb 7, 2019 12:28:30   #
Rose42
 
Peewee wrote:
Yes, it's taped. I posted it. Because it made me want to dig deeper into scripture to see if it makes sense and aligns with other scripture and if it's true, and if the dots connect. It's the same reason you may want to investigate the Bible Codes. I can't prove it one way or the other.


I meant a classroom lecture that's taped. I still intend to listen to the other 3.

Quote:
But if you believe we are entering the last days it might be worth checking out.

Jerusalem is once again under control of the Jews, not the UN. The red heifer without blemish is alive and well, no white hairs yet. The 3rd Temple can't be far behind. Lots of stuff is happening in Israel. The temple treasures may be about to be revealed thanks to the Copper Scroll. I just love the cutting edge stuff.

Not trying to lead anyone astray. Even the Sanhedrin has been reconstituted. The most venerated Rabbi in modern times, Rabbi Kaduri, said Yesuah is the Messiah. A lot of things point to Messiah coming soon. Some think as I do for the second time and some for the first time. We are to be ready.

That's all I'm about. You can take it or leave it. That's up to each of you. I'm just putting it out there to whet your appetite for reading the scriptures.
But if you believe we are entering the last days i... (show quote)


Yes these are interesting times for sure! I never thought you were trying to lead anyone astray. I am not as well versed in this as you and am playing catch up.

What do you mean the Sanhedrin has been reconstituted? How so?

Reply
 
 
Feb 7, 2019 12:52:56   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
I'll try and find the video but yes it's back in existence.

https://youtu.be/FOkXlBDjmrQ

Reply
Feb 7, 2019 16:39:19   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Re: Dr. Alfred Edersheim

I've had his best known four works for thirty plus years. They're encyclopedic.

1. 2-volume, Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah
2. 7-volume, Bible History of the Old Testament
3. Sketches of Jewish Social Life
4. The Temple: It's Ministry and Services

Alfred Edersheim: Biography (1825-1889)


Alfred Edersheim
Jewish convert to Christianity
Ordained to ministry in
the Free Church of Scotland,
Presbyterian-Minister turned
Church of England Presbyter,
Biblical Scholar, Oxford
March 7, 1825–March 16, 1889


Edersheim, Alfred. Bible History: Old Testament, Vol.1-7. Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eermans Publishing Co., 1979.

A 1995 edition is available at: http://www.amazon.com/Bible-History-Testament-Alfred-Edersheim/dp/156563165X/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1376858098&sr=8-3&keywords=alfred+edersheim

------Sketches of Jewish Social Life. Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1994.
It is available online at: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edersheim/sketches.html


------The Temple: Its Ministry and Services. Peabody, MA: Henrickson Publishers, 1995.
It is available online at: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/edersheim/temple.html

Three sources on Edersheim’s life are below: (1) a brief note on amazon.com, (2) Wikipedia, and (3) an interesting note on his life and the discovery of his manuscripts by the Oxford Chabad Society, Oxford.

(1) Brief bio-note from Amazon.com

“Alfred Edersheim (1825-89) was a Vienna-born biblical scholar who converted from Judaism to Christianity. A veteran minister and missionary to the Jews of Romania, Edersheim left an enduring and priceless legacy to followers of Christ. Among his most widely read works are The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, The Temple: Its Ministry and Services, and Bible History Old Testament.”

(2) Brief bio-note from Wikipedia

“Alfred Edersheim (March 7, 1825–March 16, 1889) was a Jewish convert to Christianity and a Biblical scholar known especially for his book The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah (1883).

“Early life and education

“Edersheim was born in Vienna of Jewish parents of culture and wealth. English was spoken in their home, and he became fluent at an early age. He was educated at a local gymnasium and also in the Talmud and Torah at a Hebrew school, and in 1841 he entered the University of Vienna. His father suffered illness and financial reversals before Alfred could complete his university education, and he had to support himself.

“Conversion and Christian ministry.

“Edersheim emigrated to Hungary and became a teacher of languages. He converted to Christianity in Pesth when he came under the influence of John Duncan, a Church of Scotland chaplain to workmen engaged in constructing a bridge over the Danube. Edersheim accompanied Duncan on his return to Scotland and studied theology at New College, Edinburgh and at the University of Berlin. In 1846 Alfred was married to Mary Broomfield. They had seven children. In the same year he was ordained to the ministry in the Free Church of Scotland. He was a missionary to the Jews at Iaşi, Romania for a year.

“On his return to Scotland, after preaching for a time in Aberdeen, Edersheim was appointed in 1849 to minister at the Free Church, Old Aberdeen. In 1861 health problems forced him to resign and the Church of St. Andrew was built for him at Torquay. In 1872 Edersheim's health again obliged him to retire, and for four years he lived quietly at Bournemouth. In 1875 he was ordained in the Church of England, and was Curate of the Abbey Church, Christchurch, Hants, for a year, and from 1876 to 1882 Vicar of Loders, Bridport, Dorset. He was appointed to the post of Warburtonian Lecturer at Lincoln's Inn 1880-84. In 1882 he resigned and relocated to Oxford. He was Select Preacher to the University 1884-85 and Grinfield Lecturer on the Septuagint 1886-88 and 1888-89.

“Edersheim died at Menton, France, on March 16, 1889.

“Works

• History of the Jewish Nation after the Destruction of Jerusalem by Titus (Edinburgh, 1856)
• The Temple and Its Ministry and Services at the Time of Jesus Christ (London, 1874)
• Bible History (7 vols., 1876-87)
• Sketches of Jewish Social Life in the Days of Christ (1876)
• The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah (2 vols.,1883; condensation in one volume, 1890)
• Prophecy and History in Relation to the Messiah (Warburton Lectures for 1880-1884, 1885)
• Tohu va Bohu, "Without form and Void." A Collection of fragmentary Thoughts and Criticisms. Ed. with a Memoir, by Ella Edersheim (1890)
• Jesus the Messiah by Alfred Edersheim (London, 1898)
• Sketches of Jewish Life in the Days of Christ (online book)
• Historical development of speculative philosophy, from Kant to Hegel 1854 translation of a philosophical book by Heinrich Moritz Chalybäus

The third source of information for Mr. Edersheim is per below.

“The Discovery of the Alfred Edersheim Collection of Hebraica at Oxford.” Oxford Chabad Society, Oxford, UK. http://www.oxfordchabad.org/templates/blog/post_cdo/AID/708481/PostID/13370. Accessed August 18, 2013.

“Who was Alfred Edersheim?

“Alfred Edersheim was a biblical scholar, born in Vienna of Jewish parents on 7 March 1825. His father, Marcus Edersheim, a banker and a man of culture and wealth, had come originally from the Netherlands, and his mother was Stephanie, nee Beifuss, of a well-known Frankfurt family. Edersheim was a bright child, and as English was spoken at home he became fluent at an early age. He was educated at a local Gymnasium and also at a Hebrew school to the age of 15, and in 1841 he entered as a student at the University of Vienna. However, his father suffered financial ruin before the completion of his university education, and he was thrown on his own resources.

“Edersheim next journeyed to Pest, in Hungary, where he supported himself by giving language lessons and met Dr John Duncan (1796-1870) and other Presbyterian ministers, who were acting at the time as chaplains to the Scottish labourers engaged in constructing the bridge over the Danube. Under their influence Edersheim converted to Christianity, and later he accompanied Duncan on his return to Scotland. Edersheim then studied Christian theology both in Edinburgh and also (under Hengstenberg, Neander, and others) in Berlin, and in 1846 he became a Presbyterian minister. Shortly afterwards he travelled abroad, and for a year he preached as a missionary both to ethnic Jews and to Germans living in Jassy in Romania. He also met there his first wife, Mary Broomfield, whom he married in 1848 after returning to Scotland.

“Edersheim was particularly skilled in preaching; the incumbent at a large church in Aberdeen, he was soon appointed minister of the Free Church in Old Aberdeen, where he remained for twelve years. During this time he translated several philosophical and theological works from German to English, including Historical Development of Speculative Philosophy, from Kant to Hegel (1854), History of the Old Covenant (1859), History of the Christian Church (1860), and Theological and Homiletical Commentary on the Gospel of St Matthew (1861).

“He also wrote History of the Jewish Nation from the Fall of Jerusalem to the Reign of Constantine the Great (1856), a copy of which is at Exeter College, and he contributed learned articles to the Athenaeum and other periodicals.

“In the winter of 1860-61 poor health led Edersheim to move to Torquay, where his first wife died. He subsequently married Sophia, nee Hancock. Through his influence, the Presbyterian church of St Andrew was built at Torquay, and he became its first minister. In 1872 his failing health prompted him to retire from active work and to devote himself to writing. He therefore resigned his charge at Torquay and moved to Bournemouth. In 1874 he published The Temple: its Ministry and Services at the Time of Jesus Christ. Through his work he met and became friends with Dr George Williams, theologian, and thanks to his influence Edersheim took orders in the Church of England in 1875. From 1876 to 1882 he worked in the parish of Loders, near Bridport, in Dorset. Here he wrote his most important work, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah (2 vols., 1883), arguably lacking in critical acumen but encyclopaedic in its range of information; he also used his personal knowledge of both Judaism and Christianity to write a fluent and engaging essay.

“In 1880 Edersheim was appointed Warburtonian lecturer at Lincoln's Inn in London, an office which he held for four years. In 1882 he moved from Loders to Oxford where he had been granted an MA honoris causa the previous year. He had also been awarded honorary degrees from Kiel (PhD) and Vienna, Berlin, Giessen, and New College, Edinburgh (DD).

In 1884-5 he was select preacher to the University of Oxford, and from 1886 to 1888 and 1888 to 1890 he was Grinfield lecturer on the Septuagint. In 1885 his Warburtonian lectures appeared, entitled Prophecy and History in Relation to the Messiah. Soon afterwards he wrote, with the co-operation of D. S. Margoliouth, a commentary on Ecclesiasticus for the Speaker's Commentary on the Apocrypha (1888). His next project was to be a work on The Life and Writings of St Paul; he had already written the opening chapters when he fell suddenly ill and died, on 16 March 1889, at Menton, France, where he had been spending the winter on account of his health.

“Edersheim was remembered fondly for his tolerance and good humour, as well as for his skills as a preacher and writer. His daughter Ella wrote a short memoir of his life which was published as a foreword to Edersheim's Tohu-Va-Vohu ('Without form and void', 1890).

“It is interesting to note that in the above biography written for the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography there is no mention about his personal library and that it was donated to Exeter College. It certainly doesn’t mention the fact that since 1956 the bulk of his Hebraica collection, as opposed to his Christian scholarship, has been deposited at the Oriental Institute on Pusey Lane, Oxford.

“From the above brief biography in the ODNB, however, it sheds some light on how it came to be that Rev. Alfred Edersheaim had such an important collection of Hebraica and how the collection ended up in the possession of an Oxford College.

“It is evident from the above outline of his life that Edersheim studied in a Jewish school until he was 15, where he must have learnt traditional Jewish learning, including the Torah, Mishna, Midrash and Talmud, all which can be found in his library. He must have also been fluent in understanding and reading Biblical and rabbinical Hebrew.

“After he finished his Jewish high-school, he seemed to have been led at the University of Vienna to make some fundamental changes in his life. At the young age of about 18 he had already converted to Christianity and at 21 he had become a Presbyterian minister.

"In 1884-5 he was selected preacher to the University of Oxford, and from 1886 to 1888 and 1888 to 1890 he was Grinfield lecturer on the Septuagint. It would follow that he was well versed in Greek as well as well as Hebrew, English, German and other languages."



Rose42 wrote:
I am not familiar with Alfred Edersheim.

I would be interested in questioning Mr. Heiser to see why he took this particular tack and why he thinks it benefits us. I'm not judging him - I don't know his intent or his heart. I've not seen his other presentations.

Reply
Feb 7, 2019 23:39:02   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
http://christinprophecy.org/articles/the-rebirth-of-the-sanhedrin/

On October 13, 2004, the Sanhedrin Council of the Jewish nation was reconstituted for the first time in 1,600 years. The ceremony took place in the Israeli town of Tiberias, located on the western shore of the Sea of Galilee. This was the site of the council’s last meeting in the year 425 AD.

This incredible development, largely ignored by the press, appears to be one more step toward the construction of a Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

The Bible clearly states that another Temple will be built before the Lord’s Second Coming occurs. The Old Testament prophet Daniel referred to it in Daniel 9:27. Jesus made mention of it in Matthew 24:15. The apostle Paul wrote about it in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. And the apostle John mentioned it in Revelation 11:1.

The Biblical Basis for the Sanhedrin

The concept of a Jewish tribunal originated with Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses. He advised his son-in-law to choose a group of elderly men to help him judge the people (Exodus 18: 17-26). The Sanhedrin was officially founded when God ordered Moses to choose 70 men from among the elders of Israel and bring them before the Tabernacle (the precursor of the Temple) where they would receive the anointing of the Spirit to judge the children of Israel (Numbers 11:16-17). This tribunal came to be known as the Sanhedrin, derived from the Greek word, sunedrion, which literally means, “sitting together.”

The Sanhedrin consisted of 71 members (Moses plus the 70 judges). It served as both the supreme court and legislative body in all matters of Torah law. After the death of Moses, he was succeeded by the leading sage on the council who was given the title, Rosh HaYeshiva, meaning “Head of the Sitting.” Later, he was simply referred to as “the President” (Nisi).

Every member of the Sanhedrin had to be distinguished in Torah knowledge and had to be characterized by wisdom, humility, fear of God, indifference to monetary gain, love of truth, and love of fellow man. Exodus 18:21 exhorts: “You shall select out of all the people, able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain, and you shall place these over the people.” Likewise, Deuteronomy 1:13 commands that “wise and discerning and experienced men” be selected.

When Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, the Jews who survived were scattered. The Jewish Torah sages reconvened at Tiberias where the Sanhedrin Council continued to meet until 425 AD.

In the Middle Ages, the greatest of all Torah sages, Maimonides (also known as “Rambam”) wrote a summary of all the steps that would be necessary to reconstitute the Sanhedrin. Those involved in reviving the Sanhedrin today have been following the prescription of Maimonides.

One of the leaders of the initiative is Rabbi Yeshai Ba’avad. According to the Israel National News, he said that the 71 rabbis “from across the spectrum received a special ordination, in accordance with Maimonides’ rulings.” He further added, “The goal is to have one rabbinic body in Jerusalem that will convene monthly and issue rulings on central issues. This is the need of the generation and of the hour.”

Another of the council’s 71 members, Rabbi Meir Halevi, affirmed over Israel National Radio that the group is following the process precisely as outlined by Maimonides in the Mishna Torah.

The mystery is what event will bring all these efforts together to launch the building of a Third Temple. Right now there is no interest at all among the general public in Israel concerning the construction of a Temple. In fact, the overwhelming majority of Israelis are strongly opposed to any effort to rebuild the Temple because they know it would spark a war with the Muslim world.

You have to understand that the average Israeli is religiously non-observant. Many are agnostics or atheists who are very secular and who hold the Orthodox Jews in contempt. Their only interest in a Temple is to keep the Orthodox (who constitute about 13% of the population) from pursuing their dream of a Temple. Something dramatic will have to occur to change this attitude. What will it be?




Rose42 wrote:
Yes these are interesting times for sure! I never thought you were trying to lead anyone astray. I am not as well versed in this as you and am playing catch up.

What do you mean the Sanhedrin has been reconstituted? How so?

Reply
Feb 8, 2019 00:19:59   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Zemirah wrote:
http://christinprophecy.org/articles/the-rebirth-of-the-sanhedrin/

On October 13, 2004, the Sanhedrin Council of the Jewish nation was reconstituted for the first time in 1,600 years. The ceremony took place in the Israeli town of Tiberias, located on the western shore of the Sea of Galilee. This was the site of the council’s last meeting in the year 425 AD.

This incredible development, largely ignored by the press, appears to be one more step toward the construction of a Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

The Bible clearly states that another Temple will be built before the Lord’s Second Coming occurs. The Old Testament prophet Daniel referred to it in Daniel 9:27. Jesus made mention of it in Matthew 24:15. The apostle Paul wrote about it in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4. And the apostle John mentioned it in Revelation 11:1.

The Biblical Basis for the Sanhedrin

The concept of a Jewish tribunal originated with Jethro, the father-in-law of Moses. He advised his son-in-law to choose a group of elderly men to help him judge the people (Exodus 18: 17-26). The Sanhedrin was officially founded when God ordered Moses to choose 70 men from among the elders of Israel and bring them before the Tabernacle (the precursor of the Temple) where they would receive the anointing of the Spirit to judge the children of Israel (Numbers 11:16-17). This tribunal came to be known as the Sanhedrin, derived from the Greek word, sunedrion, which literally means, “sitting together.”

The Sanhedrin consisted of 71 members (Moses plus the 70 judges). It served as both the supreme court and legislative body in all matters of Torah law. After the death of Moses, he was succeeded by the leading sage on the council who was given the title, Rosh HaYeshiva, meaning “Head of the Sitting.” Later, he was simply referred to as “the President” (Nisi).

Every member of the Sanhedrin had to be distinguished in Torah knowledge and had to be characterized by wisdom, humility, fear of God, indifference to monetary gain, love of truth, and love of fellow man. Exodus 18:21 exhorts: “You shall select out of all the people, able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain, and you shall place these over the people.” Likewise, Deuteronomy 1:13 commands that “wise and discerning and experienced men” be selected.

When Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, the Jews who survived were scattered. The Jewish Torah sages reconvened at Tiberias where the Sanhedrin Council continued to meet until 425 AD.

In the Middle Ages, the greatest of all Torah sages, Maimonides (also known as “Rambam”) wrote a summary of all the steps that would be necessary to reconstitute the Sanhedrin. Those involved in reviving the Sanhedrin today have been following the prescription of Maimonides.

One of the leaders of the initiative is Rabbi Yeshai Ba’avad. According to the Israel National News, he said that the 71 rabbis “from across the spectrum received a special ordination, in accordance with Maimonides’ rulings.” He further added, “The goal is to have one rabbinic body in Jerusalem that will convene monthly and issue rulings on central issues. This is the need of the generation and of the hour.”

Another of the council’s 71 members, Rabbi Meir Halevi, affirmed over Israel National Radio that the group is following the process precisely as outlined by Maimonides in the Mishna Torah.

The mystery is what event will bring all these efforts together to launch the building of a Third Temple. Right now there is no interest at all among the general public in Israel concerning the construction of a Temple. In fact, the overwhelming majority of Israelis are strongly opposed to any effort to rebuild the Temple because they know it would spark a war with the Muslim world.

You have to understand that the average Israeli is religiously non-observant. Many are agnostics or atheists who are very secular and who hold the Orthodox Jews in contempt. Their only interest in a Temple is to keep the Orthodox (who constitute about 13% of the population) from pursuing their dream of a Temple. Something dramatic will have to occur to change this attitude. What will it be?
http://christinprophecy.org/articles/the-rebirth-o... (show quote)


Well done! I know stuff but I'm not as gifted as you in explaining it. I could ace the literature, but grammar put me to sleep for some reason. Having to do a term paper almost sunk me. Thank you for explaining the subject so well. Could the "something dramatic" be locating the temple treasures/furniture and the ark? I think that is what's about to happen. We are living in exciting prophetic times. Bless you and may you continue to heal and bless us with your teaching abilities. Two days ago I had to turn on my A/C and today it's cold again. That's Texas.

Reply
 
 
Feb 8, 2019 03:04:46   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
I'm going to bask momentarily, in the warmth of your comments, Peewee. Your post is just in the nick of time.

It was 51 degrees here yesterday morning. At present, it is 20 degrees.

There was a tornado warning this afternoon, then flash flood warnings all evening.

As for the temple treasures/furniture and the ark? I believe there is a memorial arch in Rome fully displaying what happened to them in 70 A.D.

The Arch of Titus is a 1st-century AD honorific arch, located on the Via Sacra, Rome, just to the south-east of the Roman Forum. It was constructed in AD 82 by the Emperor Domitian shortly after the death of his older brother Titus to commemorate Titus's victories, including the Siege of Jerusalem.

A wall relief on the Arch of Titus reveals one of the most troubling scenes in all history, Roman soldiers carrying spoils from the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The Temple Menorah* and the Table** of the Shewbread shown at an angle, both of solid gold, and the silver trumpets which called the Jews to the festivals.

The Arch of Titus shows the spoils of Jerusalem being brought into Rome in the great triumphal parade honoring the general, soon to be emperor, Titus, at his great victory after destroying Jerusalem.

It is commonly believed this wealth in gold and silver was used to finance the building of the Roman Coliseum where the Christians were subsequently thrown to the lions to entertain the masses.

The medieval Latin travel guide, Mirabilia Urbis Romae, noted the monument, writing: "the arch of the Seven Lamps of Titus and Vespasian; where Moses' candlestick is having seven branches, with the Ark, at the foot of the Cartulary Tower"

If the Vatican still has any of the Jerusalem treasures, they are well hidden from public view, but God knows.


Peewee wrote:
Well done! I know stuff but I'm not as gifted as you in explaining it. I could ace the literature, but grammar put me to sleep for some reason. Having to do a term paper almost sunk me. Thank you for explaining the subject so well. Could the "something dramatic" be locating the temple treasures/furniture and the ark? I think that is what's about to happen. We are living in exciting prophetic times. Bless you and may you continue to heal and bless us with your teaching abilities. Two days ago I had to turn on my A/C and today it's cold again. That's Texas.
Well done! I know stuff but I'm not as gifted as y... (show quote)

Reply
Feb 8, 2019 09:31:21   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Zemirah wrote:
I'm going to bask momentarily, in the warmth of your comments, Peewee. Your post is just in the nick of time.

It was 51 degrees here yesterday morning. At present, it is 20 degrees.

There was a tornado warning this afternoon, then flash flood warnings all evening.

As for the temple treasures/furniture and the ark? I believe there is a memorial arch in Rome fully displaying what happened to them in 70 A.D.

The Arch of Titus is a 1st-century AD honorific arch, located on the Via Sacra, Rome, just to the south-east of the Roman Forum. It was constructed in AD 82 by the Emperor Domitian shortly after the death of his older brother Titus to commemorate Titus's victories, including the Siege of Jerusalem.

A wall relief on the Arch of Titus reveals one of the most troubling scenes in all history, Roman soldiers carrying spoils from the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The Temple Menorah* and the Table** of the Shewbread shown at an angle, both of solid gold, and the silver trumpets which called the Jews to the festivals.

The Arch of Titus shows the spoils of Jerusalem being brought into Rome in the great triumphal parade honoring the general, soon to be emperor, Titus, at his great victory after destroying Jerusalem.

It is commonly believed this wealth in gold and silver was used to finance the building of the Roman Coliseum where the Christians were subsequently thrown to the lions to entertain the masses.

The medieval Latin travel guide, Mirabilia Urbis Romae, noted the monument, writing: "the arch of the Seven Lamps of Titus and Vespasian; where Moses' candlestick is having seven branches, with the Ark, at the foot of the Cartulary Tower"

If the Vatican still has any of the Jerusalem treasures, they are well hidden from public view, but God knows.
I'm going to bask momentarily, in the warmth of yo... (show quote)


I'm aware of the Arch of Triumph and it's relief of the Menorah. The Copper Scroll says gold and silver talents are hidden in different locations. David accumulated a lot of gold and silver for Solomon to use in the building of the temple. Maybe some of it was left over and survived. Much of the temple furniture has been recreated by the Temple Institute including the Menorah. God knows all, and nothing is hidden from Him. It is exciting to watch it all unfold. You are probably correct about the original temple furniture and it was probably wishful thinking on my part. Gold melts at about 2,000 degrees. So it probably would have survived the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Rome only survived as long as it did by stealing the wealth of other nations.

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Feb 9, 2019 06:01:15   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
"Rome" continues to survive in that exact manner to this day, but individually, not through governments, receiving payment from every grieving family for the purchase of mass cards by which they claim to pray their deceased loved one out of an imaginary purgatory.

http://www.templemount.org/TMTRS.html

The second temple treasury did benefit from a great influx of gold and silver from all lands contributed by worshippers. Cicero wrote of great influxes of gold to Jerusalem during his lifetime. Gifts other than gold or silver coins were sold and their value given to the treasury. Another large source of revenue was profit made from the sale of the meat offerings which were prepared by the Levites and sold every day to the offerers. By far the largest sum was probably derived from the half-shekel of temple tribute which was required of every male Israelite of age, including proselytes and slaves. The total sum of gold and silver contributed annually at the time of Jesus has been estimated to have been of the order of $500,000 per year. A large fraction of this wealth no doubt accumulated year after year over the lifetime of the second temple, (515 B. C. to 70 A. D.). There were numerous temple expenses but the evidence suggests that the bulk of the income was stored up year after year.

Thus, the Roman plunder could well have been worth tens of millions of dollars. The pillaging of the temple, its total destruction and the burning of Jerusalem with terrible suffering and loss of life occurred in 70 AD under the Roman General Titus (Josephus, Wars of the Jews).

It is recorded that the intense flames of the temple fire melted the gold and silver of the temple so that it ran between the cracks of the rocks. (see Matthew 24:1-2 where Jesus Foretold the Destruction of the Temple):

24:1: Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple.

:2: But he answered them, “You see all these, do you not? Truly, I say to you, there will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”

This was fulfilled when Roman soldiers totally dismantled the temple stone by stone to extract the melted gold.


No one seems to know with certainty if any of the vessels or sacred objects from Herod's temple were hidden in subterranean passageways during the long siege of Titus. Most everything of value was most likely carried off to Rome.

The overall impression from all the biblical accounts and from tradition is that the various plunderings of Jerusalem's temples were always thorough and total. While no gold or silver may be buried underneath the temple mount, objects of priceless archaeological, historical, and religious significance may lie there. Jeremiah the prophet may have suggested that the Ark, however, has been permanently lost, (Jeremiah 3:16), or at least that it will cease to be of great significance when Messiah comes.

The Old Testament tells of the yet future restoration of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem when Messiah comes, and a still greater future glory for Israel than that attained during the times of David and Solomon, (Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8; Zephaniah 3:14-20). The tombs of some of the major kings of Israel may yet be found in the City of David adjacent to the temple mount now being excavated by the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. An interesting reference to these royal tombs is found in Ezekiel, Chapter 43. Of course, the historical, cultural, and religious significance of any new archaeological finds in and around Jerusalem cannot be measured in terms of gold or silver.



Peewee wrote:
I'm aware of the Arch of Triumph and it's relief of the Menorah. The Copper Scroll says gold and silver talents are hidden in different locations. David accumulated a lot of gold and silver for Solomon to use in the building of the temple. Maybe some of it was left over and survived. Much of the temple furniture has been recreated by the Temple Institute including the Menorah. God knows all, and nothing is hidden from Him. It is exciting to watch it all unfold. You are probably correct about the original temple furniture and it was probably wishful thinking on my part. Gold melts at about 2,000 degrees. So it probably would have survived the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. Rome only survived as long as it did by stealing the wealth of other nations.
I'm aware of the Arch of Triumph and it's relief o... (show quote)

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Feb 9, 2019 07:20:20   #
Peewee Loc: San Antonio, TX
 
Nice to know info. I was leaning toward the Temple being located in the City of David near David's palace and not the Temple Mount. I've seen some of the excavation and on a few videos and it showed an area which would fit with slaughtering animals such as sheep and goats with drains cut in the floor and even a place to secure the animal to. Plus it's nearer the Gihon Springs and living water. The Orthodox seem to prefer the Temple Mount. Time will tell I guess.

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