Radiance3

Cardinal Newman said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant."
Michelle Arnold August 04, 2011
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Full Question
John Henry Cardinal Newman once said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be Protestant." If that is the case, why are there so many Protestant church historians, even patristics scholars, who never join the Catholic Church?

Answer
Newman’s maxim is not intended to be a "rule" that those Protestants versed in Church history "must" enter the Catholic Church. It is a general observation that Church history argues against Protestantism and that those Protestants who study history deeply many times realize that the Catholic Church is the true Church.

Ultimately, belief in the truth of Catholicism is a gift of faith given by God that must be accepted and acted upon by the recipient in order for the recipient to become Catholic. With Protestant historians, it may be that some, for whatever reason of divine Providence, were not given that gift; or that those who were given that gift did not accept it or act upon it for some reason. We must commend such people to God’s mercy, trusting that if these individuals follow him to the best of their ability according to the light of truth that they have, it may be possible for them to achieve salvation (cf. Lumen Gentium, 16).

bahmer

Is not this that little girl that was yelling from the rooftops that she was under attack and so was her precious Roman Catholic Church? are you getting bored and want to fight or what is your reason for all of these posts of yours? I have posted a series of four videos awhile back and if you were to listen to them it would change the way that you read and understand your bible. It sure affected me in that sense and it may affect you as well.

It is in this post here that I put that if you are interested.

The Catholic Church quite simply refuses to allow Christ off the Cross.

Radiance3

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Your total ignorance is amusing, hypocrite! Enjoy your Social Security income.

Rose42

Please refrain from personal attacks Radiance. Since you've blocked me from PMs I have to say it here and you are aware of what the next step is. There will be no further warnings.

Radiance3

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So have the liberty attacking Catholics while you prevent Catholics from defending their faith. Yes, right now you may have the power at this Protestant site of FRS In my opinion, proven by your actions, you are a liability to the government, and to the taxpayers.

Rose42

Personal insults are not defending one's faith.

This is not a Protestant site and I don't know who runs it. But the site owner has every right to run it as they see fit - no matter what their belief system.

Radiance3

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What personal insult? Can you give me example?
You are one on the management team of FRS a Protestant site, run by Protestant people like you.
You blocked me when you don't want to hear my defense for the Catholics.

You have the power to abuse just as what you are doing now.
By preventing me to respond to defend my faith, from your judgment on Catholics and its members. You've taken over the power of God! That is not your job! That is not personal insult. It is a fact, you did it, and became the JUDGE over me and the Catholics, against God's will.

You deleted my replies when I defend my faith, proving your heretic arrogance.

Radiance3

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You obviously display your personal arrogance of your FRS Protestant site. You are now displaying your power, now warning me, so that I won't be able to defend my Catholic faith from your Protestant unchristian behavior. It is very obvious that your behavior denying my defense on my Catholic faith, denies the presence of God, and displays a relationship embracing evil.

Peace be with you.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

Are any of you familiar with Michelangelo's Pieta? Where do you find Christ here? To "some" Protestants (not all) a crucifix is a symbol of shame. To the rest of us it is a graphic symbol of Christ's sacrifice and of our redemption.

There is a feast day called "Christ the King" which has, more often than not, practically been denied in some non-Catholic liturgical Protestant churches because they could not warm to the title of King. This has held true ever since the American Revolution and the revolt against King George. If you claim thru ignorance that some Christians won't let Christ off the Cross, the rebuttal to some of you must be that you won't allow Him to be celebrated as a King even though you hope someday to be in His kingdom.

Finally, once and for all, put to rest this nonsense that every Christian faith that celebrates a liturgical Eucharist, valid or not, never recrucifies Jesus every time they celebrate. The Eucharist is always a bloodless sacrifice. And there is also some misunderstanding by Protestants regarding who exactly is called upon to effect the changing of the Eucharistic elements of bread and wine. This is that part of the liturgy when the Priest prays the epiclesis.
The epiclesis (also spelled epiklesis; from Ancient Greek: ἐπίκλησις "invocation" or "calling down from on high") is the part of the Anaphora (Eucharistic Prayer) by which the priest invokes the Holy Spirit (or the power of His blessing) upon the Eucharistic bread and wine in some Christian churches.[1]

In most Eastern Christian traditions, the Epiclesis comes after the Anamnesis (remembrance of Jesus' words and deeds); in the Western Rite it usually precedes.

I hope this clears up some invalid misunderstandings.

Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...

We are to worship in spirit and in truth.

To delve into history, is to be reminded of that.

Since its creation in 1499, Michelangelo's sculpture, "Pietà" has inspired emotion, imitation and unfortunately, idolatry, through its elegant, imaginative depiction of the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ, however, it is a carved image, and forbidden in worship.

John 4:23-24: "But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him.

God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Without valid Scripture commanding that your liturgy take place, it is and will always be manmade ritual, unknown to and uncommanded by God, and no Christian is bound by it.

THERE IS NO FURTHER SACRIFICE.

Christ's Perfect Sacrifice described in His own words: "It is finished."

Hebrews 10:17-20: "Then He adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”
And where these have been forgiven, an offering for sin is no longer needed.
Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,
by the new and living way opened for us through the curtain of His body,"

Hebrews 4:14: "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession."

Have you a Book, Chapter and Verse from Holy Scripture, to the contrary?

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

I applaud your ignorance! It is simply outstanding but not irresistible to the informed. This is a result of your intentional denying history and a valid understanding of the Christian faith.

The year 787, the place is Nicea, the occasion is the 7th Oecumenical Council. The cause - iconoclasm. The reason? Overzealous overscrupulous religious fanatics claim religious icons in whatever form are graven images. You might educate yourself what transpired and the conclusion that Council reached. Simple reasoning prevailed. Since you deny history and the early Church I might suggest that if you continue to support the iconoclastic heresy be sure to destroy all photographs of your family or friends and destroy any pictures of Christ even if they are in the pages of your bible. You have a paper icon you're free to worship and interpret by any means you choose and you take great license in doing precisely that. God gave most of us six senses by which we can better understand and worship Him and Christian art does glorify God regardless of your little narrow gauge railroad's understanding. The Christian art you destroyed when you purged Europe was sinful. You replaced it with cold sterile churches.


One of the senses it seems to me that you might be a quart low on is common sense, wisdom. In the final analysis, I don't really care what you personally think or believe except when you spread error. Rub out that last remark. I don't have the time or the inclination to correct how you use Satan's tactics to spread your particular version of the Christian faith. You do understand how free will functions right? No one has the power or authority to deny your free will, not even God. You're free to spread your hate. At least for now....

Rose42

How about presenting your case without the personal insults? Those just muddy the waters. Present your case and people will either believe it or not. The insults serve to weaken one's position.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

Ignorance isn't an insult calling her stupid would have been. I educated her she rejected it. Call her what you like, I merely acknowledged her free will to believe as she wishes. You folks have a history of hateful rhetoric towards those who don't believe as you do. You've offend and insulted Catholics at every opportunity believing you're the right hand of God. Not hardly. Best clean up your own house before you tear down someone else's. I remind you for the umpteenth time I am not a Roman Catholic.

Rose42

You presented your opinion, you didn't like the answer so you got personal despite your claim otherwise. She wasn't personal in her response and any hate is only in your imagination.

No one is pretending to be the right hand of God. Instead of being offended when people don't agree with your opinion either put up a simple rebuttal or don't bother.

padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al

Listen up. I've had sufficient dealings with your mob to differentiate between attacks, personal opinion, hateful rhetoric and a sincere, genuine interest in loving Christian dialogue. Furthermore, I'm not as offended by heretics as you might imagine. They're everywhere! I am called to defend my faith, I don't have to defend my God, He doesn't need me to defend Him but rather it is I who call on Him to defend me. And I reserve the option to choose a simple or comprehensive rebuttal or none at all. It's really not your call.