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Open Border? Or the Wall? A solution....
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Jan 10, 2019 14:56:19   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
PeterS wrote:
And what if you are in favor of security but think a 2,000-mile long wall is nothing but paranoid conservative overkill?


What security measures can you impose which are not already in use, which would be at least as effective as a wall in slowing border crossers?

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Jan 10, 2019 15:15:01   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
lpnmajor wrote:
Here's yours and Trumps mistake..........equating a wall/barrier with border security. Why do you think we have Customs and BORDER Patrol? Yes, BOTH borders need to be tightened up, but our own history with physical barriers has proven they don't work, and there are far more effective methods available - namely - increasing the number of humans monitoring both borders.

A wall will not keep out asylum seekers, who can come by sea if they can't find a way over, under or around a physical barrier. BTW, I haven't heard of a single Democrat espousing an open border policy, that's a false narrative generated by Trump and others. Every funding bill proposed had border security funding in it, several with broad bipartisan support.

Answer this; if the situation is so dire at the southern border.........................why not deal with it NOW, instead of waiting 3 years ( or more ) for a wall?
Here's yours and Trumps mistake..........equating ... (show quote)


All Democrat funding bills had no more than the current border security amount of $1.3 billion and also include strict restrictions on how that money may be spent. The amount cannot keep up with what we are already doing, let alone increase security. This funding is to pay for CBP and all their equipment, ICE, immigration judges, immigration courts, housing for those detained, deportation costs, and more.

Your statement that a wall won't keep out those arriving by sea is like saying locking doors should not be done to prevent unwanted entry to your home because the house has windows. So lock doors AND windows. And if you have to buy and install the locks one at a time, I think the door locks should be the first priority.

How can you increase the numbers of humans monitoring the border if you will not increase the funding????

| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 15:15:34   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Every Democrat, Liberal, or those who are not in favor of security need to take the following steps immediately.

1. Move into close proximity to the Mexican border. Even if you can not move right now, the remaining list still applies to you.

2. Remove all locks from your doors and if weather permits, leave your doors and windows wide open.

3. Reset your garage door openers to a mutual frequency so one opener will open every garage in your area.

4. Stop locking your car doors.

5. Remove all locks and barriers from your stores... no guards or greeters.... and cash register optional, just in case someone is willing to pay... (one can dream).

6. Establish bus route (free of charge) that is mapped to your neighborhood.

7. Buy a cemetery in your new neighborhood and staff it. Also, contact the local police and fire department, let them know of your "free" status and assure them that they will never need to respond to emergencies at your home or place of business... and you will never sue.

8. Establish your own car insurance company, I am tired of paying for uninsured motorist. Also, establish your own medical services... welfare... Just establish your own little nation.

Any additions to this list? Add them!
Every Democrat, Liberal, or those who are not in f... (show quote)


Very good analogy!!!!

| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 15:18:56   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
lpnmajor wrote:
Here's yours and Trumps mistake..........equating a wall/barrier with border security. Why do you think we have Customs and BORDER Patrol? Yes, BOTH borders need to be tightened up, but our own history with physical barriers has proven they don't work, and there are far more effective methods available - namely - increasing the number of humans monitoring both borders.

A wall will not keep out asylum seekers, who can come by sea if they can't find a way over, under or around a physical barrier. BTW, I haven't heard of a single Democrat espousing an open border policy, that's a false narrative generated by Trump and others. Every funding bill proposed had border security funding in it, several with broad bipartisan support.

Answer this; if the situation is so dire at the southern border.........................why not deal with it NOW, instead of waiting 3 years ( or more ) for a wall?
Here's yours and Trumps mistake..........equating ... (show quote)


Just what history are you speaking of which prove physical barriers don't work?????

| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 15:42:03   #
old marine (a regular here)
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
I am happy where I am. My ancestors were here long before yours. You can believe what you want from your seat on your veranda sipping ice tea and whatever you southern belles do.


My ancestors were in the British Colonies in the 1760's. Veterns of American war of independence and American citiztns since
then.

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Jan 10, 2019 16:00:09   #
byronglimish (a regular here)
 
old marine wrote:
My ancestors were in the British Colonies in the 1760's. Veterns of American war of independence and American citiztns since
then.


I can proudly say that my ancestors fought in the War for Independent Soverienty.

| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 16:15:39   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
The 10 foot wall does not exist around Obamas house. --It is a made up lie.. Obama was not a divider but he is Black and that drove haters nuts.. My children are safe. There is not an invasion of illegals that a wall is going to stop. . I will agree though that walls such as around gated communitys do help people from being burglerized.. The wall on the southern border is being promoted through fear. --Drug deallers and rapists are coming!!.. You don't have to understand my thinking and I can't change your thinking so we are even.. We will get a wall or we won't. I really hate seeing our country going down the path of suspicion of foriegners and outright bigotry. This is the United States--The beacon of hope and mercy. Guess not any more.
The 10 foot wall does not exist around Obamas hou... (show quote)


Again and again he brought up racism as a reason to excuse violence. He used the racist narrative to encourage some Americans to target other Americans. He even excused the police massacre in TX as due to the police being racist! He did so during his speech at the police memorial service!!!! He then refused to light up the white house in blue to honor the fallen heroes yet honored the "hero" who came out of the closet as being an act of courage with lighting up the white house in rainbow colors. When Antifa went on a smash and burn rampage, he said it heartened him.

And he was not only divisive on race regarding blacks. Some divisive things he said according to Marco Rubio include,
1. Call all opponents of same-sex marriage bigots
2. Call the Pro-Life movement a "War on Women"
3. Call all immigration enforcement advocates racists
4. Call the GOP the enemy of Hispanics

He explained what he thought about average middle class Americans when he said, " “And it’s not surprising then they [middle class Americans] get bitter,they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”"

* Again and again he equated being against his policies with being racist.
* In a radio interview with Univision in Oct. 2010, Obama urged Latino voters to “punish [their] enemies” and “reward [their] friends who stand with [them].”
* Obama proclaimed after the shooting of Trayvon Martin, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”
* He used a White House Easter prayer to deride Christians.
* In his memoir Dreams from My Father, Obama details how he broke up with his “New York girlfriend,” who was white, over race-related issues. Only she never existed.
* He called his own grandmother a "typical white person" who would cross the street if she saw a black person.
* Obama frequently invited leaders of the often violent and militant Black Lives Matter movement to the White House. Despicably, after five Dallas police officers were murdered at a BLM demonstration in July 2016, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said, “I would not describe the White House as concerned about these protests. They’re exercising their freedom of speech, they’re exercising their freedom of assembly. That’s a good thing. That’s a good start.”
* After Tashfeen Malik and Syed Farook, who both had ties to ISIS, killed 14 people at an office Christmas party in San Bernardino, Calif., Obama urged the public not to jump to the conclusion that it was terrorism just because the perpetrators were Muslim. Not like he would immediately jump to the conclusion that ANY black killed by a cop was a victim of racism.
* He invited the well known race baiter, Al Sharpton , to the White House at least 100 times!

He was definitely a divider!!!!

| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 16:19:30   #
byronglimish (a regular here)
 
JoyV wrote:
Again and again he brought up racism as a reason to excuse violence. He used the racist narrative to encourage some Americans to target other Americans. He even excused the police massacre in TX as due to the police being racist! He did so during his speech at the police memorial service!!!! He then refused to light up the white house in blue to honor the fallen heroes yet honored the "hero" who came out of the closet as being an act of courage with lighting up the white house in rainbow colors. When Antifa went on a smash and burn rampage, he said it heartened him.

And he was not only divisive on race regarding blacks. Some divisive things he said according to Marco Rubio include,
1. Call all opponents of same-sex marriage bigots
2. Call the Pro-Life movement a "War on Women"
3. Call all immigration enforcement advocates racists
4. Call the GOP the enemy of Hispanics

He explained what he thought about average middle class Americans when he said, " “And it’s not surprising then they [middle class Americans] get bitter,they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”"

* Again and again he equated being against his policies with being racist.
* In a radio interview with Univision in Oct. 2010, Obama urged Latino voters to “punish [their] enemies” and “reward [their] friends who stand with [them].”
* Obama proclaimed after the shooting of Trayvon Martin, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”
* He used a White House Easter prayer to deride Christians.
* In his memoir Dreams from My Father, Obama details how he broke up with his “New York girlfriend,” who was white, over race-related issues. Only she never existed.
* He called his own grandmother a "typical white person" who would cross the street if she saw a black person.
* Obama frequently invited leaders of the often violent and militant Black Lives Matter movement to the White House. Despicably, after five Dallas police officers were murdered at a BLM demonstration in July 2016, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said, “I would not describe the White House as concerned about these protests. They’re exercising their freedom of speech, they’re exercising their freedom of assembly. That’s a good thing. That’s a good start.”
* After Tashfeen Malik and Syed Farook, who both had ties to ISIS, killed 14 people at an office Christmas party in San Bernardino, Calif., Obama urged the public not to jump to the conclusion that it was terrorism just because the perpetrators were Muslim. Not like he would immediately jump to the conclusion that ANY black killed by a cop was a victim of racism.
* He invited the well known race baiter, Al Sharpton , to the White House at least 100 times!

He was definitely a divider!!!!
Again and again he brought up racism as a reason t... (show quote)




EXCELLENT!!

| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 16:20:08   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
The 10 foot wall does not exist around Obamas house. --It is a made up lie.. Obama was not a divider but he is Black and that drove haters nuts.. My children are safe. There is not an invasion of illegals that a wall is going to stop. . I will agree though that walls such as around gated communitys do help people from being burglerized.. The wall on the southern border is being promoted through fear. --Drug deallers and rapists are coming!!.. You don't have to understand my thinking and I can't change your thinking so we are even.. We will get a wall or we won't. I really hate seeing our country going down the path of suspicion of foriegners and outright bigotry. This is the United States--The beacon of hope and mercy. Guess not any more.
The 10 foot wall does not exist around Obamas hou... (show quote)


It isn't 10 feet high. But otherwise it exists.



| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 16:21:17   #
proud republican (a regular here)
 
JoyV wrote:
Again and again he brought up racism as a reason to excuse violence. He used the racist narrative to encourage some Americans to target other Americans. He even excused the police massacre in TX as due to the police being racist! He did so during his speech at the police memorial service!!!! He then refused to light up the white house in blue to honor the fallen heroes yet honored the "hero" who came out of the closet as being an act of courage with lighting up the white house in rainbow colors. When Antifa went on a smash and burn rampage, he said it heartened him.

And he was not only divisive on race regarding blacks. Some divisive things he said according to Marco Rubio include,
1. Call all opponents of same-sex marriage bigots
2. Call the Pro-Life movement a "War on Women"
3. Call all immigration enforcement advocates racists
4. Call the GOP the enemy of Hispanics

He explained what he thought about average middle class Americans when he said, " “And it’s not surprising then they [middle class Americans] get bitter,they cling to guns or religion or antipathy toward people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”"

* Again and again he equated being against his policies with being racist.
* In a radio interview with Univision in Oct. 2010, Obama urged Latino voters to “punish [their] enemies” and “reward [their] friends who stand with [them].”
* Obama proclaimed after the shooting of Trayvon Martin, “If I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”
* He used a White House Easter prayer to deride Christians.
* In his memoir Dreams from My Father, Obama details how he broke up with his “New York girlfriend,” who was white, over race-related issues. Only she never existed.
* He called his own grandmother a "typical white person" who would cross the street if she saw a black person.
* Obama frequently invited leaders of the often violent and militant Black Lives Matter movement to the White House. Despicably, after five Dallas police officers were murdered at a BLM demonstration in July 2016, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said, “I would not describe the White House as concerned about these protests. They’re exercising their freedom of speech, they’re exercising their freedom of assembly. That’s a good thing. That’s a good start.”
* After Tashfeen Malik and Syed Farook, who both had ties to ISIS, killed 14 people at an office Christmas party in San Bernardino, Calif., Obama urged the public not to jump to the conclusion that it was terrorism just because the perpetrators were Muslim. Not like he would immediately jump to the conclusion that ANY black killed by a cop was a victim of racism.
* He invited the well known race baiter, Al Sharpton , to the White House at least 100 times!

He was definitely a divider!!!!
Again and again he brought up racism as a reason t... (show quote)



| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 16:32:19   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
Ok here is the deal. I am for legal immigration -guest worker programs are needed and the dreamers need to be given the chance to be citizens. What we have now is a push to stop not only illegal immigration but actually get rid of as many legal immigrants as possible.. That wall is just a bandaid and not a solution. Fear and Hate are driving people to want this wall and I am not wrong in saying that. Just stepping outside the box a little here------ A wall needs maintenece. --paint repairs etc. Fences get challenged by those wishing to get through and repairs need to be made quickly.-- Who is going to pay for this and how will it be acccomplished? We can build a wall and it will fall apart and be destroyed in places. We will still have illegal aliens and plenty of people to hate them. We can do better than just build a wall. Are we America or are we isolationist and cruel?
Ok here is the deal. I am for legal immigration -... (show quote)


The cost of repairs and maintenance of a wall is far less than the cost of increasing CBP and the high tech equipment to the degree which would accomplish what a wall would. And once we stopped the flood coming in, we could better deal with what solution would be best in dealing with those already here.

As for guest worker programs, how many more do you want? And how many over the 2 million allowed in legally each year would you consider reasonable?

Trump offered to double those covered by DACA and provide them with a path to citizenship which Obama's plan did not do. The Democrats and RINOs refused simply because it included funding for border security including some construction of barriers!

| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 16:33:38   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
Pennylynn wrote:
Sorry, but I disagree yet again. No one, to include the President is working toward getting
"rid of legal immigrants." If you listen carefully, with open heart and mind, you will hear the President offering compromises for DARCA, a generous guest worker program, and legal immigration. It is the illegal trespassers that we take issue with... and a wall would force those seeking entry into the US through customs and border control entry points. Why would you have a problem with them having to enter the US through entry points?

Yes... walls require maintenance... which means jobs. Are you against putting people to work? Who would pay for this... good question... my response, the same people that pay for the education, medical, housing, food, clothing..... for illegals. The upside of this, if we put people to work... our federal revenues will go up due to taxes... off setting the burden of upkeep. It is more than just numbers.... as people go back to work, their self esteem is elevated, tensions lessen.... and that in its self performs another needed reform... physical violence goes down, along with that drug dependence goes down along with a host of other emotional and physical positive changes. Are you opposed to those changes? So you may see 6 million dollars on a fence or barrier... I see people working, I see schools where the teacher student ration put into a more conducive to learning, I see less drive by shooting or church shootings, I see a refound pride in neighborhoods... I see growth. But, as my family would tell you... I am an eternal optimist. There is a silver lining, even for legal immigrants, workers, and their children.
Sorry, but I disagree yet again. No one, to inclu... (show quote)



| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 16:40:14   #
JoyV (a regular here)
 
old marine wrote:

President Bush had 8 years to deal with it but he kicked the can down the road and tefused to deal with it.

President Obama refused to deal with it because he wanted open borders so his and Eric Holder could sell their guns to the Mexican Drug Cartel.

President Trump has listened to the voters and parents, husbands, wives and children of people who were murdered by illegal criminal aliens and he WILL HAVE A WALL/FENCE ONE WAY OF ANOTHER. The Ametican loyal people demand it.
B br President Bush had 8 years to deal with it ... (show quote)


I agree with all except that the funding in the Dem bills are for increased funding of border security. It is the amount that has been being funded already and won't even cover current needs, let alone expansion.

| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 16:59:30   #
teabag09 (a regular here)
 
Yeah, we could put a sentry every half mile with a .50 cal semi-auto and pop anyone trying to enter illegally. A barrier would be much more humane and consist of more than a simple fence. It would include more manpower, sensors, drones, etc. Additionally the materials and manpower used would be American which helps the economy. The intention is to funnel people to check points so they can be processed legally.

I'm glad that you and Kyle live where you don't have the crime situations from people here illegally that are a constant problem for others. How magnanimous of you. Mike
Coos Bay Tom wrote:
Ok here is the deal. I am for legal immigration -guest worker programs are needed and the dreamers need to be given the chance to be citizens. What we have now is a push to stop not only illegal immigration but actually get rid of as many legal immigrants as possible.. That wall is just a bandaid and not a solution. Fear and Hate are driving people to want this wall and I am not wrong in saying that. Just stepping outside the box a little here------ A wall needs maintenece. --paint repairs etc. Fences get challenged by those wishing to get through and repairs need to be made quickly.-- Who is going to pay for this and how will it be acccomplished? We can build a wall and it will fall apart and be destroyed in places. We will still have illegal aliens and plenty of people to hate them. We can do better than just build a wall. Are we America or are we isolationist and cruel?
Ok here is the deal. I am for legal immigration -... (show quote)

| Reply
Jan 10, 2019 17:37:14   #
Gary Coop 44 (a regular here)
 
I appreciate your input.

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