There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism
Dec 27, 2018 00:00:35 #
Not since Christianity began has this been true, and even less so now. What are we to make of this? And as Christians we savagely dissected this, ripped it apart, in one example, with Luther and Calvin and Wesley, oh my. Putting their names on Christ's words, letting them speak for Lord of the Universe and taking credit for knowing him better than himself.
Lutherans, Calvinists, and Methodists: a slap in the face of Christ. Baptists and Catholics and thousands of other worldly- or ego-driven sects. And the pathetic thinking that maybe some bargain or compromise could be made by agreeing on certain beliefs they invented to bring Christians together. Ecumenicalism: "Concerned with establishing or promoting unity among churches or religions." P***eful bishops arguing for their stance against the same.
Christ has nothing to do with what we believe. Belief is the whole problem of Christianity. No one is to believe in Jesus, as we perceive it; we are each called to be as Jesus. Belief is of the mind and includes all the worst of us. We will never agree on what is righteous and just, true and good through belief.
When Christ said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." God is love, and "believeth on him that sent me" is love, not how long his beard is or the length of his robe. Love, not belief, is the only way for Christians to be under One Lord, one faith, one baptism--the rest is craven worldliness.
Lutherans, Calvinists, and Methodists: a slap in the face of Christ. Baptists and Catholics and thousands of other worldly- or ego-driven sects. And the pathetic thinking that maybe some bargain or compromise could be made by agreeing on certain beliefs they invented to bring Christians together. Ecumenicalism: "Concerned with establishing or promoting unity among churches or religions." P***eful bishops arguing for their stance against the same.
Christ has nothing to do with what we believe. Belief is the whole problem of Christianity. No one is to believe in Jesus, as we perceive it; we are each called to be as Jesus. Belief is of the mind and includes all the worst of us. We will never agree on what is righteous and just, true and good through belief.
When Christ said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." God is love, and "believeth on him that sent me" is love, not how long his beard is or the length of his robe. Love, not belief, is the only way for Christians to be under One Lord, one faith, one baptism--the rest is craven worldliness.
Dec 27, 2018 00:36:37 #
An interesting post... I will need to ponder it a while before giving a more detailed reply...
Thank you... Very thought provoking...
Thank you... Very thought provoking...
Dec 27, 2018 01:47:20 #
Canuckus Deploracus wrote:
An interesting post... I will need to ponder it a while before giving a more detailed reply...
Thank you... Very thought provoking...
Thank you... Very thought provoking...
Thank you. Just my opinion.
Dec 27, 2018 02:43:42 #
rumitoid wrote:
Thank you. Just my opinion.
The Bible readily and energetically refutes your opinion... and opinion is a synonym for 'belief'.
o·pin·ion
[əˈpinyən]
NOUN
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
"I'm writing to voice my opinion on an issue of great importance" · [more]
synonyms
belief · judgment · thought(s) · school of thought · thinking · way of thinking · mind · point of view · view · viewpoint · outlook · angle · slant · side · attitude · stance · perspective · [more]
Dec 27, 2018 03:14:31 #
JW wrote:
The Bible readily and energetically refutes your o... (show quote)
You duly noted the distinct difference between opinion and belief: read your own post. Belief is a way of thinking, opinion is about a particular thought in that way of thinking. It is not held as a belief but a question of that belief. Example: If you said that you had an opinion about the Trinity, is that the same as belief? Similar, yes, but one is not ackonowledging a certain and firm belief.
Dec 27, 2018 04:27:55 #
rumitoid wrote:
You duly noted the distinct difference between opinion and belief: read your own post. Belief is a way of thinking, opinion is about a particular thought in that way of thinking. It is not held as a belief but a question of that belief. Example: If you said that you had an opinion about the Trinity, is that the same as belief? Similar, yes, but one is not ackonowledging a certain and firm belief.
Semantic confusability is enhanced by subtle shifts in context.
Belief and opinion are both matters of personal conviction. Period... unless you are in the habit of expressing things you doubt as firmly held opinions.
Dec 27, 2018 15:21:31 #
The Scriptural verse used as your title is due the respect of it's Biblical home address: Ephesians 4:4
We were told in 1st Corinthians 1:13 NOT to follow individual men such as Apollos or Paul, instead of Jesus Christ.
Those who today, two thousand years later, follow Luther or Calvin or Wesley or any man instead of Jesus are creating their own rules, and ignoring what God has written.
Your one theme of "It's all about love," and, "Love is all there is," is singularly incomplete.
Christ has everything to do with what we believe.
Why?
He is the object of our love.
Christ IS what we believe.
Why?
Because He first loved us, and died in our place.
rumitoid: "No one is to believe in Jesus, as we perceive it; we are each called to be as Jesus."
IF anyone of us were capable of "being as Jesus," if anyone of us could have lived a perfect life as Jesus did, then He (Jesus) could have saved His trip to earth, and we could perch ourselves on an anointed chair, if we could but identify one.
Our Savior could have remained comfortably tucked in at the right hand of God, the Father, while we in our infinite wisdom, rotated the position of Jesus Christ among role playing substitutes, successively appointed as Christs on earth, ...and how has that worked out?
What we make of it is to identify our own humanity and fallen sin nature.
What we each make of it is our own individual decision as we identify the Savior provided us.
What think ye of Christ?
Christ has everything to do with what we believe.
We were told in 1st Corinthians 1:13 NOT to follow individual men such as Apollos or Paul, instead of Jesus Christ.
Those who today, two thousand years later, follow Luther or Calvin or Wesley or any man instead of Jesus are creating their own rules, and ignoring what God has written.
Your one theme of "It's all about love," and, "Love is all there is," is singularly incomplete.
Christ has everything to do with what we believe.
Why?
He is the object of our love.
Christ IS what we believe.
Why?
Because He first loved us, and died in our place.
rumitoid: "No one is to believe in Jesus, as we perceive it; we are each called to be as Jesus."
IF anyone of us were capable of "being as Jesus," if anyone of us could have lived a perfect life as Jesus did, then He (Jesus) could have saved His trip to earth, and we could perch ourselves on an anointed chair, if we could but identify one.
Our Savior could have remained comfortably tucked in at the right hand of God, the Father, while we in our infinite wisdom, rotated the position of Jesus Christ among role playing substitutes, successively appointed as Christs on earth, ...and how has that worked out?
What we make of it is to identify our own humanity and fallen sin nature.
What we each make of it is our own individual decision as we identify the Savior provided us.
What think ye of Christ?
Christ has everything to do with what we believe.
rumitoid wrote:
Not since Christianity began has this been true, a... (show quote)
Dec 28, 2018 16:49:24 #
Zemirah wrote:
The Scriptural verse used as your title is due the... (show quote)
"IF anyone of us were capable of "being as Jesus," if anyone of us could have lived a perfect life as Jesus did, then He (Jesus) could have saved His trip to earth, and we could perch ourselves on an anointed chair, if we could but identify one.
Then what of this: "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me ("being as Christ"). The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." Galatians 2:20. This is my whole point. Faith, not belief, let's Christ live in me, live in us. Faith is utter surrender to the love of God, not ideas about who or what he is or traditions or theologies or dogma.
When Paul would use arguments such as "Because He first loved us, and died in our place" the logic was not meant meant to create a belief in Christ but to help reduce resistance to the word of Christ. Think about it: what does it matter that he first loved us? Have you loved another without first being loved? Of course. What is significantly different is that no works were necessary to procure that love Paul spoke of; all we need do is accept it.
It is what you said: "two thousand years later, follow Luther or Calvin or Wesley or any man instead of Jesus are creating their own rules, and ignoring what God has written." That is the trap of belief, very convincing for the vast majority of Christians, labeling themselves by these men--Baptists and Lutherans and Calvinist, oh, my--is putting their names above Christ. How is that not abundantly plain?
Dec 29, 2018 22:57:08 #
What does it matter if He first loved us?
Had He not done so, Rumi, He would not have died on our behave.
Faith encompasses belief.
Belief is incorporated in faith,
One can not love what one does not know.
That is why God gave us a written revelation of Himself, a.k.a., the Bible.
What is your next philosophical quandary?
That is spiritually symbolical. Obviously, we are still alive...
Following any man rather than Christ is misguided and misapplied.
If it were abundantly plain, it would not be happening, but it is.
Ah- ha! Who and what we believe and follow does matter, intensely.
as does what they believe and follow,
It is everything.
Had He not done so, Rumi, He would not have died on our behave.
Faith encompasses belief.
Belief is incorporated in faith,
One can not love what one does not know.
That is why God gave us a written revelation of Himself, a.k.a., the Bible.
What is your next philosophical quandary?
That is spiritually symbolical. Obviously, we are still alive...
Following any man rather than Christ is misguided and misapplied.
If it were abundantly plain, it would not be happening, but it is.
Ah- ha! Who and what we believe and follow does matter, intensely.
as does what they believe and follow,
It is everything.
rumitoid wrote:
"IF anyone of us were capable of "being ... (show quote)
Dec 30, 2018 17:13:29 #
Zemirah wrote:
What does it matter if He first loved us? br br ... (show quote)
Okay. We see differently and I respect your point.
Dec 30, 2018 19:14:55 #
I respect your right to believe as you choose, as you do mine.
I'm really glad to hear that, Rumi, that is a first, and should always be a requisite.
I'm really glad to hear that, Rumi, that is a first, and should always be a requisite.
rumitoid wrote:
Okay. We see differently and I respect your point.
Dec 30, 2018 19:54:53 #
Zemirah wrote:
I respect your right to believe as you choose, as you do mine.
I'm really glad to hear that, Rumi, that is a first, and should always be a requisite.
I'm really glad to hear that, Rumi, that is a first, and should always be a requisite.
Agreed. Good to see you again.
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