Rebuttal to Rose42 . . . Explaining Catholic Sacramental Mass . . . and Her Religious Indifferences And Objections
Dec 18, 2018 21:14:21 #
Rebuttal to Rose42 . . . Explaining Catholic Sacramental Mass . . . and Her Religious Indifferences And Objections
Rose42 condemnation of the Catholic mass.
My answers will be (numbered to correspond with Rose42 objections and bold with scriptural verses) to explain the text copied from a known anti-Catholic website.[/b]
1. “For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens;
1. Contextually this is where the above biblical passage comes from.
A Superior Priesthood, Hebrews 7:25-27
(“Therefore He is able to save completely those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.
Such a high priest truly befits us— One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.
Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer daily sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people; He sacrificed for sin once for all when He offered up Himself.”)
Why does the website, and Rose42 says this is Catholic priesthood is a heresy.
Lets look at the historical record and the biblical record. I find nothing heretical here
Jesus instituted the foundation of the sacrament of Holy Orders, by which a man is made a bishop, a priest, and thus dedicated to be an image of Christ, or as a deacon, dedicated for service to the church.
“And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them saying, ‘This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me’” (Luke 22:19).
At that moment, Christ ordained the Apostles to share the fullness of his high priesthood. He instituted the sacrament of holy orders at the same time he is instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist, thus showing their intimate connection.
The three degrees are referred to, respectively, as the
1. The episcopate,
2. The presbyterate and
3. The diaconate.
1. The bishop is the only minister of this sacrament. Ordination as a bishop confers the fullness of the sacrament, making the bishop a successor to the Apostles, a member of the College of Bishops, and giving him the threefold office to teach, sanctify, and govern the People of God.
2. Ordination as a priest configures the priest as Christ the Head of the Church, the one essential High Priest, and conferring on him the power, as the bishops' assistant, to celebrate the sacraments and other liturgical acts, especially the Eucharist.
3. Ordination as a deacon configures the man in the service of the bishop, especially in the Church's exercise of Christian charity towards the poor, and preaching of the word of God.
Men who discern a vocation to the priesthood are required by canon law (canon 1032 of the Code of Canon Law) to undertake a seminary program that includes, as well as graduate level philosophical and theological studies, a formation program that includes spiritual direction, retreats, apostolate experience, Latin training, etc. The course of studies in preparation for ordination as a "permanent" deacon is decided by the regional episcopal conference.
Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say 1545, 1548
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a6.htm
Who does not need daily like those high priests to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. Because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath which came after the Law appoints a Son made perfect forever.” The operative word is “once.” One sacrifice. There is no need for daily offering of sacrifices.
There is no problem here and I concur that Jesus Christ is the High priest and king from the priestly order of Melchizedek Genesis 14.
Hebrews (7:13-17)
Jesus is considered a priest in the order of Melchizedek, the "King of Righteousness" because, like Melchizedek, Jesus was not a descendant of Aaron, and thus would not qualify for the Jewish priesthood under the Law of Moses. Abraham predates, Moses and Arron and the writings of the Torah-Pentateuch.
In Matthew 1:1–6 and Luke 3:31–34 of the New Testament, Jesus is described as a member of the tribe of Judah by lineage. Revelation 5:5 also mentions an apocalyptic vision of the Lion of the tribe of Judah.
Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand." Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
(Genesis 14:17-20)
He is the first individual to be given the title Kohen (priest) in the Hebrew Bible
Except one of the Psalms, this is only one place in the Hebrew Bible where he is mentioned at all.
The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."
(Psalm 110:4,)
In the New testament he is, however, mentioned by Saint Paul makes an argument that Jesus Christ is compared to High Priest Melchizedek:
In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” And he says in another place, "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."
(Hebrews 5:5-6)
Christ is said to be indirectly "in the order of Melchizedek" in Hebrews 7
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
(Hebrews 7:11)
2. If you will look at the ninth chapter of Hebrews you will see this same truth repeated in verse 11.
The Blood of Christ
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
Hebrews 9:11
Rose42 condemnation of the Catholic mass.
My answers will be (numbered to correspond with Rose42 objections and bold with scriptural verses) to explain the text copied from a known anti-Catholic website.[/b]
1. “For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens;
1. Contextually this is where the above biblical passage comes from.
A Superior Priesthood, Hebrews 7:25-27
(“Therefore He is able to save completely those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to intercede for them.
Such a high priest truly befits us— One who is holy, innocent, undefiled, set apart from sinners, and exalted above the heavens.
Unlike the other high priests, He does not need to offer daily sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people; He sacrificed for sin once for all when He offered up Himself.”)
Why does the website, and Rose42 says this is Catholic priesthood is a heresy.
Lets look at the historical record and the biblical record. I find nothing heretical here
Jesus instituted the foundation of the sacrament of Holy Orders, by which a man is made a bishop, a priest, and thus dedicated to be an image of Christ, or as a deacon, dedicated for service to the church.
“And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them saying, ‘This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me’” (Luke 22:19).
At that moment, Christ ordained the Apostles to share the fullness of his high priesthood. He instituted the sacrament of holy orders at the same time he is instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist, thus showing their intimate connection.
The three degrees are referred to, respectively, as the
1. The episcopate,
2. The presbyterate and
3. The diaconate.
1. The bishop is the only minister of this sacrament. Ordination as a bishop confers the fullness of the sacrament, making the bishop a successor to the Apostles, a member of the College of Bishops, and giving him the threefold office to teach, sanctify, and govern the People of God.
2. Ordination as a priest configures the priest as Christ the Head of the Church, the one essential High Priest, and conferring on him the power, as the bishops' assistant, to celebrate the sacraments and other liturgical acts, especially the Eucharist.
3. Ordination as a deacon configures the man in the service of the bishop, especially in the Church's exercise of Christian charity towards the poor, and preaching of the word of God.
Men who discern a vocation to the priesthood are required by canon law (canon 1032 of the Code of Canon Law) to undertake a seminary program that includes, as well as graduate level philosophical and theological studies, a formation program that includes spiritual direction, retreats, apostolate experience, Latin training, etc. The course of studies in preparation for ordination as a "permanent" deacon is decided by the regional episcopal conference.
Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say 1545, 1548
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a6.htm
Who does not need daily like those high priests to offer up sacrifices, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. Because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the Law appoints men as high priests who are weak, but the word of the oath which came after the Law appoints a Son made perfect forever.” The operative word is “once.” One sacrifice. There is no need for daily offering of sacrifices.
There is no problem here and I concur that Jesus Christ is the High priest and king from the priestly order of Melchizedek Genesis 14.
Hebrews (7:13-17)
Jesus is considered a priest in the order of Melchizedek, the "King of Righteousness" because, like Melchizedek, Jesus was not a descendant of Aaron, and thus would not qualify for the Jewish priesthood under the Law of Moses. Abraham predates, Moses and Arron and the writings of the Torah-Pentateuch.
In Matthew 1:1–6 and Luke 3:31–34 of the New Testament, Jesus is described as a member of the tribe of Judah by lineage. Revelation 5:5 also mentions an apocalyptic vision of the Lion of the tribe of Judah.
Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, and he blessed Abram, saying, "Blessed be Abram by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth. And praise be to God Most High, who delivered your enemies into your hand." Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
(Genesis 14:17-20)
He is the first individual to be given the title Kohen (priest) in the Hebrew Bible
Except one of the Psalms, this is only one place in the Hebrew Bible where he is mentioned at all.
The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."
(Psalm 110:4,)
In the New testament he is, however, mentioned by Saint Paul makes an argument that Jesus Christ is compared to High Priest Melchizedek:
In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” And he says in another place, "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."
(Hebrews 5:5-6)
Christ is said to be indirectly "in the order of Melchizedek" in Hebrews 7
If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?
(Hebrews 7:11)
2. If you will look at the ninth chapter of Hebrews you will see this same truth repeated in verse 11.
The Blood of Christ
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
Hebrews 9:11
Dec 19, 2018 07:49:28 #
Dec 19, 2018 08:50:23 #
Do you seriously want me to list the heresies and blasphemy of the Catholic mass again? I can wait until you're done.
Dec 19, 2018 12:13:02 #
Hey Doc I tried to delete my comment but couldn't. Post away - I will refrain from commenting.
Dec 19, 2018 12:19:14 #
Boo_Boo
Loc: Jellystone
If you ever have a change of heart and need a comment in this section, send me a PM and I will delete it. But, do try to advise me quickly. I wish that Admin would allow us to manage our comments, but I do understand why they do not especially older comments which could alter the conversation flow.
Rose42 wrote:
Hey Doc I tried to delete my comment but couldn't. Post away - I will refrain from commenting.
Dec 19, 2018 16:08:58 #
Rose42 wrote:
Do you seriously want me to list the heresies and blasphemy of the Catholic mass again? I can wait until you're done.
Sorry Rose42 I want to see how this comes out as well.
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.