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Was Jesus, Mary, Joseph Immigrants, Migrants, or Refugees?
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Dec 6, 2018 09:39:41   #
Pennylynn (a regular here)
 
The caravan news just keeps getting more ridiculous as days walks toward months. One of the volleys being so confidently fired in the direction of the right from the left is that the right should have more sympathy for the migrants because Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were themselves refugees who had to migrant to Egypt to escape their dire situation. Slam dunk.... right?

No. Not a slam dunk. Problem is, the left’s argument that Jesus himself was a migrant falls apart like any other Bible-driven argument used by the left does when you apply research and a little context. Matthew: 2:12-14 tells us the story in question. Joseph has a dream in which an angel visits him and tell him to wake up and temporarily take his wife and child to Egypt until King Harold is no longer a threat.

At the time of Jesus, Judea and Egypt, known as Aegyptus, were all within the borders of the Roman empire. Both countries were occupied land under Ceaser, and even though Herod was King of Judea, he ruled on behalf of Ceasar. Jesus and His family, while provincial citizens, were what we would consider Roman nationals who pay taxes to Rome. While a case could be made that the Holy Family were sorta migrants, it was not an international journey leftists would like it to be. Jesus and his family were Roman nationals moving from one Roman country to another. They were not aliens in the legal sense, and it was perfectly legal to travel from one Roman province to another. In fact, Egypt had a vibrant Jewish community at the time.

So, then were they refugees? According to the most common definition of what a refugee is, which comes from the UN’s ratified 1967 treaty “Protocol on The Treatment of Refugees,” the treaty defines a refugee as “owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.”

Looks like under the circumstances, this may fit the situation of the Family. But... ??? The problem the left arrives at here is that a refugee is someone seeking asylum in a country that they are not nationals of as it says in the treaty. Again, the Family were considered Roman nationals. While they did flee Herod’s hunt, they did not flee to a nation outside their own. And their travel was to be temporary.... they were told to return to Judea after Harold was no longer a threat.

In the end.... the case of the caravan and comparing the Holy Family's escape.... is in the words of my husband.... "same thing only different." After examining the two... I find that Jesus and his family were not immigrants, refugees, or asylum seekers. Now let us civilly debate. Why would you call the Holy Family an immigrant? Refugee? or Asylum Seeker?

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Dec 6, 2018 10:20:19   #
old marine
 
Pennylynn wrote:
The caravan news just keeps getting more ridiculous as days walks toward months. One of the volleys being so confidently fired in the direction of the right from the left is that the right should have more sympathy for the migrants because Jesus, Mary, and Joseph were themselves refugees who had to migrant to Egypt to escape their dire situation. Slam dunk.... right?

No. Not a slam dunk. Problem is, the left’s argument that Jesus himself was a migrant falls apart like any other Bible-driven argument used by the left does when you apply research and a little context. Matthew: 2:12-14 tells us the story in question. Joseph has a dream in which an angel visits him and tell him to wake up and temporarily take his wife and child to Egypt until King Harold is no longer a threat.

At the time of Jesus, Judea and Egypt, known as Aegyptus, were all within the borders of the Roman empire. Both countries were occupied land under Ceaser, and even though Herod was King of Judea, he ruled on behalf of Ceasar. Jesus and His family, while provincial citizens, were what we would consider Roman nationals who pay taxes to Rome. While a case could be made that the Holy Family were sorta migrants, it was not an international journey leftists would like it to be. Jesus and his family were Roman nationals moving from one Roman country to another. They were not aliens in the legal sense, and it was perfectly legal to travel from one Roman province to another. In fact, Egypt had a vibrant Jewish community at the time.

So, then were they refugees? According to the most common definition of what a refugee is, which comes from the UN’s ratified 1967 treaty “Protocol on The Treatment of Refugees,” the treaty defines a refugee as “owing to well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality and is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country; or who, not having a nationality and being outside the country of his former habitual residence as a result of such events, is unable or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to return to it.”

Looks like under the circumstances, this may fit the situation of the Family. But... ??? The problem the left arrives at here is that a refugee is someone seeking asylum in a country that they are not nationals of as it says in the treaty. Again, the Family were considered Roman nationals. While they did flee Herod’s hunt, they did not flee to a nation outside their own. And their travel was to be temporary.... they were told to return to Judea after Harold was no longer a threat.

In the end.... the case of the caravan and comparing the Holy Family's escape.... is in the words of my husband.... "same thing only different." After examining the two... I find that Jesus and his family were not immigrants, refugees, or asylum seekers. Now let us civilly debate. Why would you call the Holy Family an immigrant? Refugee? or Asylum Seeker?
The caravan news just keeps getting more ridiculou... (show quote)


Pennylynn, it is just another attemot to give the Socialist Democrat a reason to force America to allow illegal alien criminals into America for their illegal votes. And possiable soldiers in an attempt to overthrow a lawful government.

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Dec 6, 2018 10:25:57   #
Pennylynn (a regular here)
 
Of course you are right! But, having seen and heard this argument, I just had to look into it.

old marine wrote:
Pennylynn, it is just another attemot to give the Socialist Democrat a reason to force America to allow illegal alien criminals into America for their illegal votes. And possiable soldiers in an attempt to overthrow a lawful government.

| Reply
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