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Is Roman Catholicism Biblical?
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Nov 27, 2018 15:56:37   #
Rose42
 
In today's spirit of ecumenism, many evangelicals have called for the Protestant Church to lay aside its differences with Rome and pursue unity with the Catholic Church. Is that possible? Is Roman Catholicism simply another facet of the body of Christ that should be brought into union with its Protestant counterpart? Is Roman Catholicism simply another Christian denomination?

While there are many errors in the teaching of the Catholic Church (for example its belief in the transubstantiation of the communion wafer and its view of Mary), two rise to the forefront and call for special attention: its denial of the doctrine of sola Scriptura and its denial of the biblical teaching on justification. To put it simply, because the Roman Catholic Church has refused to submit itself to the authority of God's Word and to embrace the gospel of justification taught in Scripture, it has set itself apart from the true body of Christ. It is a false and deceptive form of Christianity.

The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura

In the words of reformer Martin Luther, the doctrine of sola Scriptura means that "what is asserted without the Scriptures or proven revelation may be held as an opinion, but need not be believed." Roman Catholicism flatly rejects this principle, adding a host of traditions and Church teachings and declaring them binding on all true believers—with the threat of eternal damnation to those who hold contradictory opinions.

In Roman Catholicism, "the Word of God" encompasses not only the Bible, but also the Apocrypha, the Magisterium (the Church's authority to teach and interpret divine truth), the Pope's ex cathedra pronouncements, and an indefinite body of church tradition, some formalized in canon law and some not yet committed to writing. Whereas evangelical Protestants believe the Bible is the ultimate test of all truth, Roman Catholics believe the Church determines what is true and what is not. In effect, this makes the Church a higher authority than Scripture.

Creeds and doctrinal statements are certainly important. However, creeds, decisions of church councils, all doctrine, and even the church itself must be judged by Scripture—not vice versa. Scripture is to be accurately interpreted in its context by comparing it to Scripture—certainly not according to anyone's personal whims. Scripture itself is thus the sole binding rule of faith and practice for all Christians. Protestant creeds and doctrinal statements simply express the churches' collective understanding of the proper interpretation of Scripture. In no sense could the creeds and pronouncements of the churches ever constitute an authority equal to or higher than Scripture. Scripture always takes priority over the church in the rank of authority.

Roman Catholics, on the other hand, believe the infallible touchstone of truth is the Church itself. The Church not only infallibly determines the proper interpretation of Scripture, but also supplements Scripture with additional traditions and teaching. That combination of Church tradition plus the Church's interpretation of Scripture is what constitutes the binding rule of faith and practice for Catholics. The fact is, the Church sets itself above Holy Scripture in rank of authority.

The Doctrine of Justification

According to Roman Catholicism, justification is a process in which God's grace is poured forth into the sinner's heart, making that person progressively more righteous. During this process, it is the sinner's responsibility to preserve and increase that grace by various good works. The means by which justification is initially obtained is not faith, but the sacrament of baptism. Furthermore, justification is forfeited whenever the believer commits a mortal sin, such as hatred or adultery. In the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, then, works are necessary both to begin and to continue the process of justification.

The error in the Catholic Church's position on justification may be summed up in four biblical arguments. First, Scripture presents justification as instantaneous, not gradual. Contrasting the proud Pharisee with the broken, repentant tax-gatherer who smote his breast and prayed humbly for divine mercy, Jesus said that the tax-gatherer "went down to his house justified" (Luke 18:14). His justification was instantaneous, complete before he performed any work, based solely on his repentant faith. Jesus also said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life" (John 5:24). Eternal life is the present possession of all who believe—and by definition eternal life cannot be lost. The one who believes immediately passes from spiritual death to eternal life, because that person is instantaneously justified (see Romans 5:1, 9; 8:1).

Second, justification means the sinner is declared righteous, not actually made righteous. This goes hand in hand with the fact that justification is instantaneous. There is no process to be performed—justification is purely a forensic reality, a declaration God makes about the sinner. Justification takes place in the court of God, not in the soul of the sinner. It is an objective fact, not a subjective phenomenon, and it changes the sinner's status, not his nature. Justification is an immediate decree, a divine "not guilty" verdict on behalf of the believing sinner in which God declares him to be righteous in His sight.

Third, the Bible teaches that justification means righteousness is imputed, not infused. Righteousness is "reckoned," or credited to the account of those who believe (Romans 4:3-25). They stand justified before God not because of their own righteousness (Romans 3:10), but because of a perfect righteousness outside themselves that is reckoned to them by faith (Philippians 3:9). Where does that perfect righteousness come from? It is God's own righteousness (Romans 10:3), and it is the believer's in the person of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30). Christ's own perfect righteousness is credited to the believer's personal account (Romans 5:17, 19), just as the full guilt of the believer's sin was imputed to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21). The only merit God accepts for salvation is that of Jesus Christ; nothing man can ever do could earn God's favor or add anything to the merit of Christ.

Fourth and finally, Scripture clearly teaches that man is justified by faith alone, not by faith plus works. According to the Apostle Paul, "If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace" (Romans 11:6). Elsewhere Paul testifies, "By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9, emphasis added; see Acts 16:31 and Romans 4:3-6). In fact, it is clearly taught throughout Scripture that "a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law" (Romans 3:28; see Galatians 2:16; Romans 9:31-32; 10:3).

In contrast, Roman Catholicism places an undue stress on human works. Catholic doctrine denies that God "justifies the ungodly" (Romans 4:5) without first making them godly. Good works therefore become the ground of justification. As thousands of former Catholics will testify, Roman Catholic doctrine and liturgy obscure the essential truth that the believer is saved by grace through faith and not by his own works (Ephesians 2:8-9). In a simple sense, Catholics genuinely believe they are saved by doing good, confessing sin, and observing ceremonies.

Adding works to faith as the grounds of justification is precisely the teaching that Paul condemned as "a different gospel" (see 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6). It nullifies the grace of God, for if meritorious righteousness can be earned through the sacraments, "then Christ died needlessly" (Galatians 2:21). Any system that mingles works with grace, then, is "a different gospel" (Galatians 1:6), a distorted message that is anathematized (Galatians 1:9), not by a council of medieval bishops, but by the very Word of God that cannot be broken. In fact, it does not overstate the case to say that the Roman Catholic view on justification sets it apart as a wholly different religion than the true Christian faith, for it is antithetical to the simple gospel of grace.

As long as the Roman Catholic Church continues to assert its own authority and bind its people to "another gospel," it is the spiritual duty of all true Christians to oppose Roman Catholic doctrine with biblical truth and to call all Catholics to true salvation. Meanwhile, evangelicals must not capitulate to the pressures for artificial unity. They cannot allow the gospel to be obscured, and they cannot make friends with false religion, lest they become partakers in their evil deeds (2 John 11).

https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A190/is-roman-catholicism-biblical

Reply
Nov 27, 2018 16:33:21   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Rose42 wrote:
In today's spirit of ecumenism, many evangelicals have called for the Protestant Church to lay aside its differences with Rome and pursue unity with the Catholic Church. Is that possible? Is Roman Catholicism simply another facet of the body of Christ that should be brought into union with its Protestant counterpart? Is Roman Catholicism simply another Christian denomination?

While there are many errors in the teaching of the Catholic Church (for example its belief in the transubstantiation of the communion wafer and its view of Mary), two rise to the forefront and call for special attention: its denial of the doctrine of sola Scriptura and its denial of the biblical teaching on justification. To put it simply, because the Roman Catholic Church has refused to submit itself to the authority of God's Word and to embrace the gospel of justification taught in Scripture, it has set itself apart from the true body of Christ. It is a false and deceptive form of Christianity.

The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura

In the words of reformer Martin Luther, the doctrine of sola Scriptura means that "what is asserted without the Scriptures or proven revelation may be held as an opinion, but need not be believed." Roman Catholicism flatly rejects this principle, adding a host of traditions and Church teachings and declaring them binding on all true believers—with the threat of eternal damnation to those who hold contradictory opinions.

In Roman Catholicism, "the Word of God" encompasses not only the Bible, but also the Apocrypha, the Magisterium (the Church's authority to teach and interpret divine truth), the Pope's ex cathedra pronouncements, and an indefinite body of church tradition, some formalized in canon law and some not yet committed to writing. Whereas evangelical Protestants believe the Bible is the ultimate test of all truth, Roman Catholics believe the Church determines what is true and what is not. In effect, this makes the Church a higher authority than Scripture.

Creeds and doctrinal statements are certainly important. However, creeds, decisions of church councils, all doctrine, and even the church itself must be judged by Scripture—not vice versa. Scripture is to be accurately interpreted in its context by comparing it to Scripture—certainly not according to anyone's personal whims. Scripture itself is thus the sole binding rule of faith and practice for all Christians. Protestant creeds and doctrinal statements simply express the churches' collective understanding of the proper interpretation of Scripture. In no sense could the creeds and pronouncements of the churches ever constitute an authority equal to or higher than Scripture. Scripture always takes priority over the church in the rank of authority.

Roman Catholics, on the other hand, believe the infallible touchstone of truth is the Church itself. The Church not only infallibly determines the proper interpretation of Scripture, but also supplements Scripture with additional traditions and teaching. That combination of Church tradition plus the Church's interpretation of Scripture is what constitutes the binding rule of faith and practice for Catholics. The fact is, the Church sets itself above Holy Scripture in rank of authority.

The Doctrine of Justification

According to Roman Catholicism, justification is a process in which God's grace is poured forth into the sinner's heart, making that person progressively more righteous. During this process, it is the sinner's responsibility to preserve and increase that grace by various good works. The means by which justification is initially obtained is not faith, but the sacrament of baptism. Furthermore, justification is forfeited whenever the believer commits a mortal sin, such as hatred or adultery. In the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, then, works are necessary both to begin and to continue the process of justification.

The error in the Catholic Church's position on justification may be summed up in four biblical arguments. First, Scripture presents justification as instantaneous, not gradual. Contrasting the proud Pharisee with the broken, repentant tax-gatherer who smote his breast and prayed humbly for divine mercy, Jesus said that the tax-gatherer "went down to his house justified" (Luke 18:14). His justification was instantaneous, complete before he performed any work, based solely on his repentant faith. Jesus also said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life" (John 5:24). Eternal life is the present possession of all who believe—and by definition eternal life cannot be lost. The one who believes immediately passes from spiritual death to eternal life, because that person is instantaneously justified (see Romans 5:1, 9; 8:1).

Second, justification means the sinner is declared righteous, not actually made righteous. This goes hand in hand with the fact that justification is instantaneous. There is no process to be performed—justification is purely a forensic reality, a declaration God makes about the sinner. Justification takes place in the court of God, not in the soul of the sinner. It is an objective fact, not a subjective phenomenon, and it changes the sinner's status, not his nature. Justification is an immediate decree, a divine "not guilty" verdict on behalf of the believing sinner in which God declares him to be righteous in His sight.

Third, the Bible teaches that justification means righteousness is imputed, not infused. Righteousness is "reckoned," or credited to the account of those who believe (Romans 4:3-25). They stand justified before God not because of their own righteousness (Romans 3:10), but because of a perfect righteousness outside themselves that is reckoned to them by faith (Philippians 3:9). Where does that perfect righteousness come from? It is God's own righteousness (Romans 10:3), and it is the believer's in the person of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30). Christ's own perfect righteousness is credited to the believer's personal account (Romans 5:17, 19), just as the full guilt of the believer's sin was imputed to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21). The only merit God accepts for salvation is that of Jesus Christ; nothing man can ever do could earn God's favor or add anything to the merit of Christ.

Fourth and finally, Scripture clearly teaches that man is justified by faith alone, not by faith plus works. According to the Apostle Paul, "If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace" (Romans 11:6). Elsewhere Paul testifies, "By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9, emphasis added; see Acts 16:31 and Romans 4:3-6). In fact, it is clearly taught throughout Scripture that "a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law" (Romans 3:28; see Galatians 2:16; Romans 9:31-32; 10:3).

In contrast, Roman Catholicism places an undue stress on human works. Catholic doctrine denies that God "justifies the ungodly" (Romans 4:5) without first making them godly. Good works therefore become the ground of justification. As thousands of former Catholics will testify, Roman Catholic doctrine and liturgy obscure the essential truth that the believer is saved by grace through faith and not by his own works (Ephesians 2:8-9). In a simple sense, Catholics genuinely believe they are saved by doing good, confessing sin, and observing ceremonies.

Adding works to faith as the grounds of justification is precisely the teaching that Paul condemned as "a different gospel" (see 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6). It nullifies the grace of God, for if meritorious righteousness can be earned through the sacraments, "then Christ died needlessly" (Galatians 2:21). Any system that mingles works with grace, then, is "a different gospel" (Galatians 1:6), a distorted message that is anathematized (Galatians 1:9), not by a council of medieval bishops, but by the very Word of God that cannot be broken. In fact, it does not overstate the case to say that the Roman Catholic view on justification sets it apart as a wholly different religion than the true Christian faith, for it is antithetical to the simple gospel of grace.

As long as the Roman Catholic Church continues to assert its own authority and bind its people to "another gospel," it is the spiritual duty of all true Christians to oppose Roman Catholic doctrine with biblical truth and to call all Catholics to true salvation. Meanwhile, evangelicals must not capitulate to the pressures for artificial unity. They cannot allow the gospel to be obscured, and they cannot make friends with false religion, lest they become partakers in their evil deeds (2 John 11).

https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A190/is-roman-catholicism-biblical
In today's spirit of ecumenism, many evangelicals ... (show quote)


What ignorant arrogance! You want to compare heretical Protestant theology against catholics theology! You want to tell your mother she's a bastard. If true, what does that make you? Maybe you just play the piano in the brothel? Where in hell, the literal hell, do you schismatics usurp an authority that does not belong to you? You assume too much.

Reply
Nov 27, 2018 17:37:01   #
bahmer
 
Rose42 wrote:
In today's spirit of ecumenism, many evangelicals have called for the Protestant Church to lay aside its differences with Rome and pursue unity with the Catholic Church. Is that possible? Is Roman Catholicism simply another facet of the body of Christ that should be brought into union with its Protestant counterpart? Is Roman Catholicism simply another Christian denomination?

While there are many errors in the teaching of the Catholic Church (for example its belief in the transubstantiation of the communion wafer and its view of Mary), two rise to the forefront and call for special attention: its denial of the doctrine of sola Scriptura and its denial of the biblical teaching on justification. To put it simply, because the Roman Catholic Church has refused to submit itself to the authority of God's Word and to embrace the gospel of justification taught in Scripture, it has set itself apart from the true body of Christ. It is a false and deceptive form of Christianity.

The Doctrine of Sola Scriptura

In the words of reformer Martin Luther, the doctrine of sola Scriptura means that "what is asserted without the Scriptures or proven revelation may be held as an opinion, but need not be believed." Roman Catholicism flatly rejects this principle, adding a host of traditions and Church teachings and declaring them binding on all true believers—with the threat of eternal damnation to those who hold contradictory opinions.

In Roman Catholicism, "the Word of God" encompasses not only the Bible, but also the Apocrypha, the Magisterium (the Church's authority to teach and interpret divine truth), the Pope's ex cathedra pronouncements, and an indefinite body of church tradition, some formalized in canon law and some not yet committed to writing. Whereas evangelical Protestants believe the Bible is the ultimate test of all truth, Roman Catholics believe the Church determines what is true and what is not. In effect, this makes the Church a higher authority than Scripture.

Creeds and doctrinal statements are certainly important. However, creeds, decisions of church councils, all doctrine, and even the church itself must be judged by Scripture—not vice versa. Scripture is to be accurately interpreted in its context by comparing it to Scripture—certainly not according to anyone's personal whims. Scripture itself is thus the sole binding rule of faith and practice for all Christians. Protestant creeds and doctrinal statements simply express the churches' collective understanding of the proper interpretation of Scripture. In no sense could the creeds and pronouncements of the churches ever constitute an authority equal to or higher than Scripture. Scripture always takes priority over the church in the rank of authority.

Roman Catholics, on the other hand, believe the infallible touchstone of truth is the Church itself. The Church not only infallibly determines the proper interpretation of Scripture, but also supplements Scripture with additional traditions and teaching. That combination of Church tradition plus the Church's interpretation of Scripture is what constitutes the binding rule of faith and practice for Catholics. The fact is, the Church sets itself above Holy Scripture in rank of authority.

The Doctrine of Justification

According to Roman Catholicism, justification is a process in which God's grace is poured forth into the sinner's heart, making that person progressively more righteous. During this process, it is the sinner's responsibility to preserve and increase that grace by various good works. The means by which justification is initially obtained is not faith, but the sacrament of baptism. Furthermore, justification is forfeited whenever the believer commits a mortal sin, such as hatred or adultery. In the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, then, works are necessary both to begin and to continue the process of justification.

The error in the Catholic Church's position on justification may be summed up in four biblical arguments. First, Scripture presents justification as instantaneous, not gradual. Contrasting the proud Pharisee with the broken, repentant tax-gatherer who smote his breast and prayed humbly for divine mercy, Jesus said that the tax-gatherer "went down to his house justified" (Luke 18:14). His justification was instantaneous, complete before he performed any work, based solely on his repentant faith. Jesus also said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life" (John 5:24). Eternal life is the present possession of all who believe—and by definition eternal life cannot be lost. The one who believes immediately passes from spiritual death to eternal life, because that person is instantaneously justified (see Romans 5:1, 9; 8:1).

Second, justification means the sinner is declared righteous, not actually made righteous. This goes hand in hand with the fact that justification is instantaneous. There is no process to be performed—justification is purely a forensic reality, a declaration God makes about the sinner. Justification takes place in the court of God, not in the soul of the sinner. It is an objective fact, not a subjective phenomenon, and it changes the sinner's status, not his nature. Justification is an immediate decree, a divine "not guilty" verdict on behalf of the believing sinner in which God declares him to be righteous in His sight.

Third, the Bible teaches that justification means righteousness is imputed, not infused. Righteousness is "reckoned," or credited to the account of those who believe (Romans 4:3-25). They stand justified before God not because of their own righteousness (Romans 3:10), but because of a perfect righteousness outside themselves that is reckoned to them by faith (Philippians 3:9). Where does that perfect righteousness come from? It is God's own righteousness (Romans 10:3), and it is the believer's in the person of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30). Christ's own perfect righteousness is credited to the believer's personal account (Romans 5:17, 19), just as the full guilt of the believer's sin was imputed to Christ (2 Corinthians 5:21). The only merit God accepts for salvation is that of Jesus Christ; nothing man can ever do could earn God's favor or add anything to the merit of Christ.

Fourth and finally, Scripture clearly teaches that man is justified by faith alone, not by faith plus works. According to the Apostle Paul, "If it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace" (Romans 11:6). Elsewhere Paul testifies, "By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9, emphasis added; see Acts 16:31 and Romans 4:3-6). In fact, it is clearly taught throughout Scripture that "a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law" (Romans 3:28; see Galatians 2:16; Romans 9:31-32; 10:3).

In contrast, Roman Catholicism places an undue stress on human works. Catholic doctrine denies that God "justifies the ungodly" (Romans 4:5) without first making them godly. Good works therefore become the ground of justification. As thousands of former Catholics will testify, Roman Catholic doctrine and liturgy obscure the essential truth that the believer is saved by grace through faith and not by his own works (Ephesians 2:8-9). In a simple sense, Catholics genuinely believe they are saved by doing good, confessing sin, and observing ceremonies.

Adding works to faith as the grounds of justification is precisely the teaching that Paul condemned as "a different gospel" (see 2 Corinthians 11:4; Galatians 1:6). It nullifies the grace of God, for if meritorious righteousness can be earned through the sacraments, "then Christ died needlessly" (Galatians 2:21). Any system that mingles works with grace, then, is "a different gospel" (Galatians 1:6), a distorted message that is anathematized (Galatians 1:9), not by a council of medieval bishops, but by the very Word of God that cannot be broken. In fact, it does not overstate the case to say that the Roman Catholic view on justification sets it apart as a wholly different religion than the true Christian faith, for it is antithetical to the simple gospel of grace.

As long as the Roman Catholic Church continues to assert its own authority and bind its people to "another gospel," it is the spiritual duty of all true Christians to oppose Roman Catholic doctrine with biblical truth and to call all Catholics to true salvation. Meanwhile, evangelicals must not capitulate to the pressures for artificial unity. They cannot allow the gospel to be obscured, and they cannot make friends with false religion, lest they become partakers in their evil deeds (2 John 11).

https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A190/is-roman-catholicism-biblical
In today's spirit of ecumenism, many evangelicals ... (show quote)


Amen and Amen it is refreshing to here an ex-Catholic proclaim the truth as you have lived the lie and know the truth thank you Rose42.

Reply
 
 
Nov 27, 2018 17:38:11   #
bahmer
 
padremike wrote:
What ignorant arrogance! You want to compare heretical Protestant theology against catholics theology! You want to tell your mother she's a bastard. If true, what does that make you? Maybe you just play the piano in the brothel? Where in hell, the literal hell, do you schismatics usurp an authority that does not belong to you? You assume too much.


Mayhaps it is you who assume to much there padre.

Reply
Nov 27, 2018 17:50:38   #
Rose42
 
padremike wrote:
What ignorant arrogance! You want to compare heretical Protestant theology against catholics theology! You want to tell your mother she's a bastard. If true, what does that make you? Maybe you just play the piano in the brothel? Where in hell, the literal hell, do you schismatics usurp an authority that does not belong to you? You assume too much.


Padre that sounds like the Holy Spirit is at work but you are the only one who can tear the wall down. I sincerely hope you do. Its a lot harder when we're older that's for sure.

Reply
Nov 27, 2018 18:00:14   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
bahmer wrote:
Mayhaps it is you who assume to much there padre.


Sorry bahmer, we were there 1500 years before you. We had the advantage of our teachers, later bishops, sitting at the feet of an actual apostles and they were taught the faith by them. They in turn passed the faith and Traditions of the apostles on to the Church "exactly" as they had received it. What else can I say? I approve your free will to deny Truth, how could I not?

Reply
Nov 27, 2018 18:10:39   #
Rose42
 
bahmer wrote:
Mayhaps it is you who assume to much there padre.


Yes he did assume far too much. The man who wrote this is a Bible scholar - one of the most respected of our time. I posted this because he explains things very well and always backs it up with God's word. There are numerous other sources as well.

Reply
 
 
Nov 27, 2018 18:11:08   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Rose42 wrote:
Padre that sounds like the Holy Spirit is at work but you are the only one who can tear the wall down. I sincerely hope you do. Its a lot harder when we're older that's for sure.


The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. If you deny the one, holy, catholic and apostolic faith you deny Truth. The Truth was revealed at Pentecost, the birthday of the Christian Church. It did not wait for 1500 more years. The denial of Truth is a lie. All Truth, all real Truth, emanates from only one source and that source is God. In 1517 Luther began teaching a new Truth, his truth. He broke away from the source of Truth, the one, holy, catholic and apostolic faith.

Reply
Nov 27, 2018 18:23:30   #
bahmer
 
padremike wrote:
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. If you deny the one, holy, catholic and apostolic faith you deny Truth. The Truth was revealed at Pentecost, the birthday of the Christian Church. It did not wait for 1500 more years. The denial of Truth is a lie. All Truth, all real Truth, emanates from only one source and that source is God. In 1517 Luther began teaching a new Truth, his truth. He broke away from the source of Truth, the one, holy, catholic and apostolic faith.


Could it be that somewhere over the 1500 years that the Roman Catholic Church possibly strayed off coarse and it was Martin Luther trying to bring it back to its original coarse that was the conflict? Remember men are all corrupt pr can become corrupted if they allow Satan a foothold. Secondly it is the love of money that is the root of all evil could it be that at the time the Vatican became greedy and wanted more money for whatever. Also over this rime period it appears that the Roman Catholic Church was not to particular as to who became the pope and money and leadership in the country played a large part as to who was accepted to the papacy back in those days. In fact some of those popes were even questionable as to whether they were members of the Roman Catholic Church in good standing.

Reply
Nov 27, 2018 18:23:34   #
Rose42
 
padremike wrote:
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. If you deny the one, holy, catholic and apostolic faith you deny Truth. The Truth was revealed at Pentecost, the birthday of the Christian Church. It did not wait for 1500 more years. The denial of Truth is a lie. All Truth, all real Truth, emanates from only one source and that source is God. In 1517 Luther began teaching a new Truth, his truth. He broke away from the source of Truth, the one, holy, catholic and apostolic faith.


The Christian faith didn't wait 1500 years for Martin Luther. It was already there though the Catholic church fought it. He and others aided in exposing Catholicism's false teachings. And scripture was used to do it. God's word not Luther's word.

Reply
Nov 27, 2018 18:31:17   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Rose42 wrote:
Yes he did assume far too much. The man who wrote this is a Bible scholar - one of the most respected of our time. I posted this because he explains things very well and always backs it up with God's word. There are numerous other sources as well.


He's still an heretical protestant scholar. The Episcopal Church's Bishop Spong was considered a tremendous and recognized biblical scholar; a scholar somewhere between Catholic AND Protestant theology. Yet he had a crucifix on his altar in the Episcopal Cathedral, St. John the Divine, NYC that displayed a naked woman spread on the Cross who he called by the name of "Christa". Get the point? If one begin from a flawed assumption your overall thesis will be flawed.

Reply
 
 
Nov 27, 2018 18:41:35   #
Rose42
 
padremike wrote:
He's still an heretical protestant scholar. The Episcopal Church's Bishop Spong was considered a tremendous and recognized biblical scholar; a scholar somewhere between Catholic AND Protestant theology. Yet he had a crucifix on his altar in the Episcopal Cathedral, St. John the Divine, NYC that displayed a naked woman spread on the Cross who he called by the name of "Christa". Get the point? If one begin from a flawed assumption your overall thesis will be flawed.


He's not a heretic and he knows God's word. Your point is irrelevant. Shall I use past pedophile, adulterous, sex abuser popes, cardinals and bishops? Not to mention out and out crooks. Would God really have these people as his representatives on earth? You said it, if you begin from a flawed assumption your overall thesis is flawed.

Reply
Nov 27, 2018 19:21:37   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
bahmer wrote:
Could it be that somewhere over the 1500 years that the Roman Catholic Church possibly strayed off coarse and it was Martin Luther trying to bring it back to its original coarse that was the conflict? Remember men are all corrupt pr can become corrupted if they allow Satan a foothold. Secondly it is the love of money that is the root of all evil could it be that at the time the Vatican became greedy and wanted more money for whatever. Also over this rime period it appears that the Roman Catholic Church was not to particular as to who became the pope and money and leadership in the country played a large part as to who was accepted to the papacy back in those days. In fact some of those popes were even questionable as to whether they were members of the Roman Catholic Church in good standing.
Could it be that somewhere over the 1500 years tha... (show quote)


What you fail to understand, because you reject history and Tradition, is that heretical teachers were with us from the very beginning. St. Paul was fighting against Gnosticism. Chances are you are completely uninformed regarding any of the many formal heresies the early Church fought and defeated, that if left unchecked, you would would not recognize the same Jesus you call Lord today. They were defeated by the teachings and Traditions of, you guessed it, the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. The only heresy you claim to know is your bias against the catholic faith. If this wasn't so tragic it would actually be humorous.

You listed several would of, could of, should of, but they're all speculative and come from a preconceived biased position. All are subjective, none are objective so they are unbalanced and wrong. You cannot argue historical truth when you don't know the history. You cannot argue Apostolic Tradition when you reject it before you even begin to understand it. You must, however, deny one or the other: Apostolic or Protestant. Heaven or Hell can be determinate on the difference between doubt and denial.

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Nov 27, 2018 19:36:06   #
padremike Loc: Phenix City, Al
 
Rose42 wrote:
The Christian faith didn't wait 1500 years for Martin Luther. It was already there though the Catholic church fought it. He and others aided in exposing Catholicism's false teachings. And scripture was used to do it. God's word not Luther's word.


Excuse me but you should have started this comment with: "In my humble (the "H" in protestant speak is silent) "In my umble opinion". Or, perhaps "Once upon a time."

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Nov 27, 2018 19:53:33   #
Zemirah Loc: Sojourner En Route...
 
Your slapstick comedy can not undo the truth of Rose's statement.

It is God's Word that will judge the Roman Catholic Institution and its rulers.

It was God's Word that defeated those who tried to stop Martin Luther's ministry to restore spiritual truth to the millions that Rome was oppressing with their lies.


padremike wrote:
Excuse me but you should have started this comment with: "In my humble (the "H" in protestant speak is silent) "In my umble opinion". Or, perhaps "Once upon a time."
Excuse me but you should have started this comment... (show quote)

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