bahmer

Amen and Amen

Radiance3

===============
Jack, since you mentioned my name here are the sources.
These are the sources where the 30,000 plus Protestant denomination was obtained.
Here is the latest statistics of various denominations worldwide according to World Christian Encyclopedia by Barrett, Kurian, Johnson (Oxford Univ Press, 2nd edition, 2001). This was in 2001, a difference of now 17 years ago. Must be much higher now.

The Facts and Stats on "33,000 Denominations"

The source does refer to 33000+ total "Christian" denominations, but it defines the word "denomination" as an organized Christian group within a specific country:

As defined here, world Christianity consists of 6 major ecclesiastico-cultural blocs, divided into 300 major ecclesiastical traditions, composed of over 33,000 distinct denominations in 238 countries, these denominations themselves being composed of over 3,400,000 worship centers, churches or congregations.' (Barrett et al, volume 1, page 16, Table 1-5, emphasis added)

According to Barrett's Encyclopedia:
• a denomination is defined as existing within a specific country
• there are 33,000+ total of these "Christian denominations" in 238 total countries

These 33,000 are subdivided into "6 major ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs", and ordering them by denomination size we have (I am rounding up or down slightly for convenience, using year 2000 figures) :
o Independents (about 22000) From US black Baptist, and African nations headed by Ministers or Pastors.
o Protestants (about 9000)
o "Marginals" (about 1600)
o Orthodox (781)
o Roman Catholics (242)
o Anglicans (168)
So the 33,000 number is from the total of these 6 mega-blocs:
22000 + 9000 + 1600 + 781 + 242 + 168 = 33,000+

Protestants about 9000
Independent 22,00
Marginals 1,600
Total 32,600

Marginals are Protestants that are not active.
Independents are close to Protestants because they also follow the 500-year-year-old Sola Scriptura, commonly found in the African nations.

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Jack,

Prove what you cannot disprove . . . . . I am not dishonest or ignorant as you seem to suggest . . .

Here are three Catholic sources that say . . .

AD 130 Papias, bishop of Hieropolis in Asia Minor, wrote, "Matthew compiled the sayings [of the Lord] in the Aramaic language, and everyone translated them as well as he could" (Explanation of the Sayings of the Lord [cited by Eusebius in History of the Church 3:39]).
https://www.catholic.com/qa/was-matthews-gospel-first-written-in-aramaic-or-hebrew

Around 180 Irenaeus of Lyons wrote that

Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church.
After their departure, Mark, the disciple and interpreter of Peter, did also hand down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter.
Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him.
Afterwards John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon his breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia. (Against Heresies 3:1:1)


Eusebius himself declared that "Matthew had begun by preaching to the Hebrews, and when he made up his mind to go to others too, he committed his own Gospel to writing in his native tongue [Aramaic], so that for those with whom he was no longer present the gap left by his departure was filled by what he wrote" (History of the Church 3:24 [inter 300-325]).

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Balmer still the schoolboy non-Catholic cheerleader, with nothing empirically to say?

quote=bahmer]

Amen and Amen

[/quote]

bahmer

[/quote]

As long as it ruffles your feathers I will continue to do it understand there Doc110?

Amen and Amen

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Rose42,

You seem to suggest that I am angry ?

No, as I said to you before,

Imperfect women as yourself, only perceive emotions, them imply emotions and things, in the lens of their own eyes.

Hence, this childish notion and continued assertion of anger.

Rose42,

Get a real life, and stopping this ridiculous fake woman emotional perceived nonsense . . . .

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Balmer,

Doesn't ruffle anything.

You add nothing to the conversation, all you are is a bell clanging in the wind, of intelligent ideas.

Can't put a coherent sentence or several thoughts together.

And yet you rely in the excuse, that it takes a half hour to type a response.

Balmer all you do is remain in the shadows, only to surface with nothing really to say or critique.

Boring, atta-boy, childish schoolboy antics . . .

Maybe your new OPP forum "name" should be, . . . schoolboy . . .

Rose42

If you're not angry as you insist, then why are you so consistently downright nasty to people? There's no excuse for it. I've never personally insulted you, I criticize doctrine. So what's the problem?

I know...conviction! That's not a bad thing, its a good thing.

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Jack,

All you can do is try to imply your non-Catholic perceived notion of "dark powers" on the Catholic Church.

You're non-Catholic anti-Catholic religious rhetoric, only shows that you resort to name calling and belittling others and their religious faith . . .

This is your protestant nature, to attack others. "To Protest."

It's very similar to Democrats, all they can do is protest, with no facts to support their political causes and immoral strife.



Jack you're just confused lost Protestant soul, that is Spiritual incomplete and Prayerfully incomplete, . . .

All you can do, is rely on protestant religious intellectualism and thus not letting God's, Holy Spirit into your heart soul and mind.

We are to be imitators of Jesus Christ, in actions, deed, spiritually, prayerfully and intelligently, not to be incomplete from your Protestantism intellect.

That is what you are missing from the fullness of the Catholic Church, the combination of all three gifts of Jesus's Faith, and hope and charity.


Catholic Church Doctrinal source's are found in "Church Traditions," and "Church Scripture" and in the Church Cannons. e.g. The Holy Bible.


Here is the essence of Protestantism, e.g. Sola Scriptura . . .

Luther's man-made Sola Scripture doctrines, meant a complete doctrine rejection of the infallibly of the Catholic Church Authority the (Pope) given to the Catholic Church teaching of the Churches Magisterium doctrines, to interpret and reject both Holy scripture and Church traditions.

The Catholic Church teaching Magisterium interprets both Holy scripture and Church traditions and has not changed in 1,987 years.



But Luther removed 7 biblical books, chapters and scriptural verses. This is a man-made bible, that had been codifies for over 1,100 years.

Who gave Luther that right, the authority to tear apart the Bible ?

Yeah, Sola Scriptura made him do it, right. Is this is your excuse, jack?

Independent thinking Man-Made Biblical self-interpreting Protestant Pope's ?


For over 501 years of Sola Scriptura, it (selectively) ignore's and or reject Christian history, traditions or does it not reject the Church teachings when seeking to understand the Bible.

This is a major, man-made difference, from the Catholic Church and is definite man-made Protestantism a "catch 22 situation" . . . developed by Luther, Calvin and other reformationists.

Quite the man-made "conundrum," right Jack. . . .

And quite the man-made religious protestantism "double-speak," . . . wouldn't you say, Jack ? . . .



In other words jack, Protestants reject the Catholic Biblical interpretations and Catholic Tradition written and oral interpretations of the Catholic Church and the Pope. . . .

They reject the written Church authoritative bible, from AD 397 Council of Nicaea and Catholic Church oral traditions starting from AD 33, of Jesus's life, death, resurrection and accession into heaven.

Which the Protestant church selectively preach and quietly speak about man-made doctrinal ignorance of Scripture, and to ignore or reject Christian history, traditions or does not reject their Protestant man-made Bible when seeking to understand the Bible.


In other words jack, Protestants believe independently, that they can biblically self-interpret Holy Scripture, by them-selves.

Thus making millions of independent man-made self-interpretative Pope's.

With 33, thousand Protestant denominations, and secondary authorities, and millions of man-made biblical self-interpretative Pope's.


Luther said "a simple lay man armed with scripture is greater than the mightiest Pope, without it."

What an oxymoronic statement . . . by Luther, what complete religious hubris.

Hmmmmmm . . . . kinda makes, one think ?



Again all you and rose42 religiously complain about, is the lack of biblical understanding and of Catholic biblical religious doctrinal concepts.

Instead of criticizing, why don't you read what Catholics have written, what Protestant have written and compare the two without prejudice.

First, Ask yourself is the one true Church that Christ founded. Make a list ?

Secondly, Look at the Early Church Fathers, did they divert from the apostles teaching ? Jesus's teachings ?

Thirdly, Did the Early Church Fathers, pass on Jesus's teachings ? Apostolic teaching, to the next generation and to our present time Catholic Church ?

Fourthly, Has the present time Catholic Church, Jesus's teachings, Apostolic teaching, Early Church Fathers teaching change ?

Fifthly, Look at the Churches ancient Church Traditions, oral and written, that can-not be disregarded the historical component.



The Old Testament, is intertwined in the New Testament. And the New Testament is intertwined in the Old Testament.

With the Holy Spirit presence and spiritual, prayerful, intelligent guidance.

This is by God's design, . . . as God is omnipotent. God is able to go back in the past time, travel to the present time and travel in the future of time.



Jack and Rose, . . . you use sola Scripture as a crutch !!! Protestantism Can-Not stand on one leg, without falling down.

That's because it is a man-Made theology device written from Men . . . by Luther, Calvin and Zwingli and other reformation writers.


God did not give inspiration to their heretical man-made doctrine, or else God would have provided spiritual and written words found in the Holy Scriptures.

This is the conundrum that all protestant, all non-Catholics face ! ! !

If God had done so, the Bible would have affirmed sola Scriptura.

But God did not provide the biblical notion of Luther, Calvin and Zwingli man-made doctrine theology, man-made religious philosophy, man-made biblical revisionist history and man-made modern day Protestant-Christian Relativism.

And yet, Sola scripture still, can't be found in the Holy Bible.



And sadly yet, you Jack, Rose42, Balmer, and Zemirah have been unable to provide factual scriptural proof, where Sola Scriptura it is found in the Bible ?


Jack, by human Definition is one thing, but by a man-made doctrine you can't prove Sola Scriptura by it's self.

But It's another thing, to prove Sola Scripture was preached and or taught by Jesus Christ, The Apostles, The Early Church Father's.

That is specifically is why, Sola Scriptura, it is "Not" found in the Bible.



Jack I love it when Protestants such as yourself, takes a biblical passage totally out of biblical context, and then liberally through self-interpretation, can justify and label others to you're sadistic brain independent biblical thinking.

e.g. Paul's Letter to the Ephesians:

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
Ephesians 6:12

Jack Paul's Ephesians 6:12 is written by Paul in the context of "Spiritual warfare." "Putting on the Armor or of God" against satan's, his minions and spiritual-physical evil warfare.

Jack so this is your mentality of your limited delusional anti-Catholic Protestant mind.

The One True Ancient Church founded by Jesus Christ, and the Apostles who spread the Catholic Christian word-message, and the Early Church Fathers who affirmed Jesus's words and instructions, the Apostles instructions. The Pope's instructions and then passed this Biblical love and instruction to bishops and priests to our present age and to Christians with the guidance of the living breathing Holy Spirit.



Jack you think, the Catholic Church is a "powers of this dark world" "spiritual forces of evil" in the earthly and heavenly realms ?

Jack you're a very twisted religious person . . . You only have evil in your heart, soul and in your mind.

Please seek some mental and spiritual help, or get on some psychiatric medication, . . . This is all I can recommended, for your christian depravity.

Also you're spelling is atrocious. (demoninaions, discredite)



Jack what's up with you're continued name calling indirectly calling me and others, "are you stupid or dishonest".

You are the only a person on the OPP religious forum of your own religious protestant caliber, that spews forth this hate and evil, you need prayerful and spiritual mercy.

Then you say "God Bless" while cursing me and others in your comments.

I will pray for you're lost soul.

Doc110

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Rose42,

If you criticize my Catholic Church, my beliefs, my faith, then you criticize me.


Tell me Rose42,

What gives you the right to critique and criticize me, ? and my Catholic Church and my Catholic faith.

Is it open-yearly shooting season for Catholics, . . . or do we just ask for religious ridicule, and doctrinal criticism ?

This is what you Protestant should be asking ?


Because you fell hook line and sinker, your churches notion, and doctrines that your denomination is better than, the One True Church founded by Jesus Christ himself.

Rose just what do you think you are doing as a Christian ? Are you really doing Christianity a favor attacking other Christians.

Rose42 you should be evangelizing non-believers.


Rose42, "I'm saved," I've been Baptized, I practice the 7 Sacraments, doctrines of the Church founded by Jesus Christ.

I'm here to live with God, His Son and the Holy Spirit and to love one another as God Loved the World.



I don't see your church name or denomination name listed in the Bible.

But your First pastor in the 1860's decided to take a name out of Paul's letters in Bible.

I really don't think this is what Jesus Christ intended your "Man-Made" doctrine and theology. It's not founded in the Bible as is Sola Scriptura is not.



You really don't have any concept of the Apostles teachings, and the affirmation of the Early Church Fathers instructions from the Apostles and their writings.

"To be Deep in History, . . . is to cease to be Protestant."
Cardinal John Henry Newman

Then why do you comment and write as you do, Rose42.

It's like breathing, this is what you do in your denomination .


Why not reflect and on your posts and comments and then re-read what you say and or write . . .

Reflection is a good thing.

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Rose42,

And now you speak for Cardinal Newman ?

Tell me something, what gave over to his mind, heart and soul to the Catholic faith ?

To be Deep In History, . . . Is To Cease To Be Protestant . . . Thats why ?

He could not lie to his mind, heart, and to his soul . . .

The Catholic Church is a living breathing entity, with the Holy Spirits guidance.

Jesus said to the Apostles, Jesus had to leave for the Paraclete, e.g. the Holy Spirit to help them.

Do you think the Holy Spirit has left the earth's people.

Do you think that Jesus and or Mary has left the earth's people ?

Look on the internet of 10 apparitions of Jesus Christ since his resurrection and hundreds of witnesses.

Visions after Jesus's ascension; There are countless apparitions not listed here.

a. Visions of Saint Steven, of Christ,
b. Saint Pau,l on the road to Damascus,
c. Saint Ananias, who is told to heal Paul,
d. Christ, appears to Paul in the temple,
e. Saint John's Revelations,
f. Saint Francis of Assisi, while praying in church, and stigmata,
g. Saint Juliana of Liege, had visions of Christ,
h. Saint Lutgarde, a mystic and the Sacred Heart of Jesus,
i. Saint Mechtilda of Helfta, a visionary,
j. Saint Gertrude the Great, also a visionary.
k. Saint Catherina of Siena, a Doctor of the Church,
l. Saint Juliana of Norwich, with 16 recorded revelations.
m. Saint Thomas Kempis, Who wrote the Imitation of Christ,
n. Saint Teresa of Avila, who had visions of Christ,
o. Saint John of the Cross, a mystic,
p. Saint Marguerite Alacoque, a visionary,
q. Saint Veronica Giuliani, a visionary, and stigmata,

19th Century Appearances;
r. Sister Marie of St Peter, visions and conversations,
s. Saint John Vianney, visionary,
t. Venerable Marie Chambon, visionary,
u. Marie-Julie Jahenny, a visionary, and stigmata,
v. Saint Gemma Galgani, a visionary, and stigmata,
w. Saint Padre Pio, a visionary, and stigmata,
x. Sister Josefa Menendez, a visionary,
y. Saint Faustina Kowalska, a visionary,
z. Blessed Maria DeMicheli, a visionary,
aa. Kibeho, Rwanda, Africa, 7 visionaries

list of Marian Apparitions;
a. Saint Juan Diego, Our Lady of Guadalupe, Mexico, 1531,
b. Catherine Laboure, Our Lady of the Miraculous Medal, France, 1830,
c. Maximin Giraude, Melanie Calvat, Our Lady of Salette, France, 1846,
d. Bernadette Soubirous, Our Lady of Lourdes, France, 1858,
e. Joseph and Eugene Barbadette, Our Lady of Pontmain, France, 1871,
f. 15 men, women and children, Our Lady of Knock, Ireland, 1870,
g. Lucia Santos, Jacinta and Francisco Marto, Our Lady of Fatima, Portugal, 1917,
h. 5 Children 33 times, Our Lady of Beauraing, Belgium, 1932-1933,
i. Mariette Beco, Our Lady of Banneux, Belgium, 1933,
j. 6 Children, Our Lady of Medjugorji, Bosnia-Herzegovina, 1981,
k. Mother of the Redeemer, Bloomington, Indiana, United States of America,
l. Gladys Quiroga de Motta, Our Lady of the Rosary of San Nicolas, Argentina, 1083 to 1990,
j. Benoite Rencurel, Our Lady of Laus, France, 1544,
k. Many Witnesses, Apparitions in Tensta, Sweden, 2012,
l. Sister Agnes Katsuko, Our Lady of Akita, Japan, 1973,
m. Shrine of Our Lady of Altotting, Germany, AD 660,
n. Our Lady of Czestochowa, Poland, 1655,
o. Our Lady of Good Council, Genazzano, Italy, 1467,
p. Our Lady of Loreto, Italy, 1291,
q. Juan Diego Bernardino, Our Lady of Ocotlan, Mexico, 1541,
r. Our Lady of Peace, Santa Fe, New Mexico, 1680,
s. Our Lady of Altagracia, Dominican Republic,
t. Our Lady of the Pilar, Zaragoza, Spain, AD 40-60
u. Brother Rosario, Dominican, Our Lady of Pompeii, Italy, 1871,
v. Antonina and Angelo Lannuso, Our Lady of Tears, Syracuse, Italy, 1953
w. Petras Gedgaudas, Our Lady of Siauliai, Lithuania, 1457,
x. Monk Hilarion, Our Lady of the Gate of Dawn, Luthuania, 1761,
y. Our Lady of Prompt Succor, New Orleans, Louisiana, 1788, and 1815,
z. Nancy Fowler, appearance of Our Lady, Conyers, Georgia, 1990 to 1998,

There are countless apparitions not listed here.

Rose I would love to hear you call these apparitions Jesus and Marian, heresies ?

Why is it that these apparitions don't happen to non-Catholic Protestants.

Hummmmmmm ?

Doc110 Loc: York PA

Balmer,

Boring, did you say, boring.

Typically to is 99 % of the time Protestants that have heaped upon one verse in scripture, to mean their scriptural point, and take it totally out of biblical context

In Matthew 16:17-19

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

18 And I tell you that you are Cephas-Kephas (Stone-Rock) Peter and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Now you insinuate "Money" is the cause of what ?

You see you Protestants live and breath anti-Catholicism, every vile hate and evil spews fourth from you unclean hearts, soul and mind.

Do they teach you this ugly religious behavior, or do you pass this evil onto one another.

Jesus would never say this behavior is Christian.

You say that your Christian, but in the very same breath putrid anti-Catholic words come out of your ugly mouths.


Prove what you claim Balmer ! ! !

How is Holy Scripture, Oral and Traditions negate all of their power over the parishioners.

Tell a whale of a lie and people believe your ugly compost words.

1. The Nazi's, Adolf Hitler and Joseph Goebbles and the German propaganda machine used "The Big Lie," metaphor well. "Tell a big enough Lie, and people will believe the Lie."

2. American Saul Alinski, democrat socialist, "Rules for Radicals," Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama's mentor, community organizing to gain get social, legal, political and economic power.

3. You use the same tactics that Martin Luther, Cohn Calvin and other Protestant reformers to demean and vilify any form of Catholic opposition.

Guess you don't fall far from the tree, balmer.

What world hero's you follow and listen to now . . . that speak the "The Big Lie."


Balmer you act as if the Catholic Church schism broke off from the Protestant reformation church.

Oh quite the contrary, The 1517 Protestant reformation church schism, broke off from the Catholic church.

The vicar of Christ, Cardinals, Bishops, Priests are the servants of God and to all people, just remember that, and they follow the same teaching from the Last supper as a servant.

Boring, did you say, boring.


quote=bahmer]

It is scary to see how much the Roman Catholic Church has heaped upon one verse in scripture.

To admit otherwise would destroy all of the Roman Catholic Church as it would also destroy the Oral Tradition of the Church as well as the sacred Tradition of the Church and negate all of their power over the parishioners.

So this argument or discussion will never be resolved by the hard core Roman Catholic Church believer and I also believe that the Eastern Orthodox Church falls into the same category as does the Roman Catholic Church regarding this one passage in the Bible.

I have always been advised to follow the money in most all things in life and I would suggest that the same is true in this as well.

There is a multitude of wealth that has been gathered over time as well as power that has been given to the Roman Catholic Church and their Pontiff that would be very difficult for them to lay aside and become just another Bible believing church.

Therefor it is an argument or discussion that cannot be won unless one is truly looking and seeking for the truth.

If they are not looking for the truth they will never be convinced otherwise because to do so would mean to them in their own minds that they ave made a mistake which goes against human nature.

I will continue reading here and am especially interested in Rose42, Zemirah, and Jack.

And those that have contributed to this discussion from the protestant side of the spectrum but the circular reasoning from the Roman Catholic crowd including the Eastern Orthodox one are getting boring.

[/quote]

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

OK hellen Keller. Deaf, dumb and blind!!!

Your own catholic church says that is false and ask that you stop repeating the lie...

But Hellen, anything your church says is your god speaking (men) when it suits your inability to face evidence.

But nothing your church says about stop repeating a lie means anything to you, when it's suits you or your inability to defend against evidence.

You continue to look foolish to all reading your post as well as dishonest.

Its actually sad reading your replies.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

[/quote]



Doc110 you said "Jesus would never say this behavior is Christian"

The Woes of the Pharisees is a list of criticisms by Jesus against scribes and Pharisees recorded in the Gospels of Luke 11:37–54 and Matthew 23:1–39. Mark 12:35–40 and Luke 20:45–47 also include warnings about scribes. Eight are listed in Matthew, and hence Matthew's version is known as the eight woes.


The woes to the Pharisees IS yesterday's and today's Catholic Church

They taught about God but did not love God – they did not enter the kingdom of heaven themselves, nor did they let others enter.
They preached God but converted people to dead religion, thus making those converts twice as much sons of hell as they themselves were.
They taught that an oath sworn by the temple or altar was not binding, but that if sworn by the gold ornamentation of the temple, or by a sacrificial gift on the altar, it was binding. The gold and gifts, however, were not sacred in themselves as the temple and altar were, but derived a measure of lesser sacredness by being connected to the temple or altar. The teachers and Pharisees worshiped at the temple and offered sacrifices at the altar because they knew that the temple and altar were sacred. How then could they deny oath-binding value to what was truly sacred and accord it to objects of trivial and derived sacredness?
They taught the law but did not practice some of the most important parts of the law – justice, mercy, faithfulness to God. They obeyed the minutiae of the law such as tithing spices but not the weightier matters of the law.
They presented an appearance of being 'clean' (self-restrained, not involved in carnal matters), yet they were dirty inside: they seethed with hidden worldly desires, carnality. They were full of greed and self-indulgence.
They exhibited themselves as righteous on account of being scrupulous keepers of the law, but were in fact not righteous: their mask of righteousness hid a secret inner world of ungodly thoughts and feelings. They were full of wickedness. They were like whitewashed tombs, beautiful on the outside, but full of dead men's bones.
They professed a high regard for the dead prophets of old, and claimed that they would never have persecuted and murdered prophets, when in fact they were cut from the same cloth as the persecutors and murderers: they too had murderous blood in their veins.


What I read from others postings is "false teachings, dotorins of the Catholic church not personal attacks.

What I read from you and Radiance3 are personal attacks, insults, demeaning and clearly mean spirited.

Your new name Doc110 is Helen Keller because

Your deaf, dumb, and blind.

You actually refuse to even believe what your own Catholic church writes for your instructions...

You repeat to prove yourself a fool,

I'm embarrassed for you when reading your replies.

An educated man argues the evidence, is not dishonest avoiding evidence.
I won't call you out for your beliefs, but for being a liar.

Calling you a fake, dishonest, and a liar is not an insult bur rather what you have proven yourself to be, in full view of all reading your post or replies.

jack sequim wa Loc: Blanchard, Idaho

[/quote]


Doc110 (Helen) said
"18 And I tell you that you are Cephas-Kephas"

Again your a dishonest liar, desperately trying to hold on.

The original manuscripts are Greek not Aramaic. Not a single Aramaic anything in the new Testament manuscripts.

The only Aramaic is found in 3 old Testament books Helen.

The Greek manuscripts is what the Catholic church used to translate from

Jesus is the rock

The word church does not exist in the Greek manuscript but reads as followers of Jesus, not a building.

More lies from Helen